Unpopular Motorsport Opinions

[Jimlaad43]

I don't like too many catch fences at circuits. Motorsport is dangerous.

Brands GP loop has now caught and infection of them. They detract from the spectator experience in general and I base my decision on whether to visit some circuits on how obtrusive the fences are.

When a tyre or car bounces off the catch fencing you're standing behind, you'll be thankful it's there.

F1 teams (Red Bull especially) should not be aloud to swap drivers between teams mid season. I say just keep Gasly in the Red bull car and if he does not improve in the second half of the season swap him or ditch him for one of the Toro Rosso drivers.

This is one of the main problems with Helmut is that he does not give drivers (Gasly and Kvyat) longer in the Red Bull car to improve.

Drivers in a top team are expected to perform at a top level though. Giovinazzi and Kubica are performing badly compared to their team mates, but because they're in a bad car it isn't that much of an issue as it is at the top. Gasly had time in a Toro Rosso to get up to speed with F1 and was supposed to be quick or at least consistent in the second Red Bull. Gasly was lapped by Verstappen twice on pure pace when he was battling for the lead. You should never be lapped by your team mate especially if you aren't involved in accidents or screwed over by something out of your control (other blue flags, pitstop mistakes). No, Gasly has botched his chance, has hit a wall too many times and was damaging the Red Bull brand. Verstappen might be driving out of his skin at the moment, but even Massa in 2012 and 13 when he had outstayed his welcome in a top team was able to keep the Ferrari near the pointy end of the grid most weeks. Gasly has been mired in the midfield too often and is not picking up the points that car should be picking up. If he had performed in Germany and Hungary like he did at Silverstone, he would still have the seat. But a crash in practice, a lockup at the T6 hairpin dropping him to last, followed by a crash with Albon in Germany and a dismal Hungarian Grand Prix where he only got ahead of 2 cars because Red Bull are great at pitstops and an anonymous pursuit of Sainz later and it was curtains.

Interestingly, Gasly is leading Reddit's "Destructors Championship" which tries to quantify the amount of damage each driver has accumulated through the year through crashes, and he has been replaced by Albon, who is second on the list.

 

[MatskiMonk]

When a tyre or car bounces off the catch fencing you're standing behind, you'll be thankful it's there.

Maybe, but that's a low probability scenario - I'm unlikely to be stood behind an obstructive catch fence if I can help it, and if I don't really have the choice, I'll probably have saved the money and not gone to the event. Photography is a good 50% of my enjoyment at being at a race, and Brands, specifically, has followed other circuits in making that harder. I also don't suppose the initial risk was any higher than in my travelling 2-3 hours to get to a circuit by car, and I doubt they've fully mitigated the risk of being track side either.

 

[ro_har_]

Interestingly, Gasly is leading Reddit's "Destructors Championship" which tries to quantify the amount of damage each driver has accumulated through the year through crashes, and he has been replaced by Albon, who is second on the list.

So they decided to move up to the top the driver who according to the Destructors Championship is currently second, instead of someone (Kvyat) as he does have experience in Red Bull hand in 13th in the Destructors Championship, is just a tad stupid in my books, what I would have done was kept Albon in the Toro Rosso with Gasly and move Kvyat back up and just tell him to stay out of Verstappen's way but keep pace.

 

[Jimlaad43]

So they decided to move up to the top the driver who according to the Destructors Championship is currently second, instead of someone (Kvyat) as he does have experience in Red Bull hand in 13th in the Destructors Championship, is just a tad stupid in my books, what I would have done was kept Albon in the Toro Rosso with Gasly and move Kvyat back up and just tell him to stay out of Verstappen's way but keep pace.

It's a test for 2020. Red Bull know what Gasly and Kvyat can do in a Red Bull, they haven't had Albon in a Red Bull yet. At the end of the year they'll be able to compare the three. Kvyat was quick and nearly on pace with Ricciardo, his only issue was that he crashed too often. If Albon doesn't impress in these races then it'll be Kvyat in the Red Bull next season, but it is giving Albon a chance to show if he's ready or not.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Anything over 2 hours becomes tough to watch the full thing because ain't nobody got time for that. You're not going to be able to watch a full 24 Hour Race, and it isn't until the last stops are over that anything starts to affect the result anyway, apart from a crash or two. In a Grand Prix, time lost at the beginning or during the only stop makes a lot of difference. In a 24 hour race it doesn't.

So you saying I don't watch EVERY second of Le Mans and N24 every year then? That I don't see how the race evolves over time? Cool.

 

[MaxAttack]

So you saying I don't watch EVERY second of Le Mans and N24 every year then? That I don't see how the race evolves over time? Cool.

Don't lie, everybody poops, gotta miss some of it ^.^

 

[Tired Tyres]

Don't lie, everybody poops, gotta miss some of it ^.^

I don't drink in that 24 hour period to minimise compusary breaks. Hourly updates in the coverage give ample time for them anyway, so you don't miss a second of live coverage.

 

[MaxAttack]

I don't drink in that 24 hour period to minimise compusary breaks. Hourly updates in the coverage give ample time for them anyway, so you don't miss a second of live coverage.

Short of some Clockwork Orange type contraption, seems you're as close to 100% viewing as one can physically be.

You should drink water, though, you know. Kidney stones ain't much fun

Sidenote: I unashamedly watch highlights and pretend I understand what happened. Although it was nice running the Spa stream just kind of in the background as I went about my day.

 

[MatskiMonk]

I gave up watching 24 hour races without taking a break, either trackside or on TV. Usually I just felt that **** by the end of it it wasn't fun. I'll normally aim to catch about 18 hours worth, and I'll often catch 3-4 hours in the pub on Saturday night. If I'm trackside, I'll normally get a couple of hours kip before dawn, in whatever uncomfortable place I've managed to keep dry. Being trackside at night is awesome though. Visiting the Britcar 24 at Silverstone is one of the things that got me into live motorsport.

 

[Simmpa]

Vettel won´t take anymore titles and will retire either this or next year, if he stays in Ferrari for next year he will get beaten by Leclerc

 

[TheElbows]

RE: Catch fencing...

It's fun to say "I'd take the risk"...I think most of us would. You know who wouldn't? The owners of the circuit who'll get sued into the ground when a random spectator gets smeared by a wheel. Racing circuits are already struggling to stay in business most of the time, fighting noise complaints (yes, from people who moved nearby 20-50 years after the race circuit was founded...), etc. We know how shockingly litigious the world is today - no business/property owner in their right mind won't do all the stuff they need to do to avoid being bankrupted by legal action against them for an "unsafe" venue, etc.

I don't think anyone likes catch fencing from an aesthetic point of view, but I'd rather see it in place than lose more tracks.

 

[flamingchariot]

Unpopular Opinion prompted by the current discussion: F1 is just one of many pinnacles of motor racing. Each discipline is unique and therefore cannot be viewed as "under" F1 as they're not necessarily the same sport.

I HATE stick and ball references, but it's like claiming a baseball player is bad because he's never played in the super bowl. It's idiotic to make that comparison

I could go one further right there all american sports are a joke really ha ha.

Am curious to hear why you feel that way. Take it from someone who used to scoff at oval racing, it's an extremely difficult discipline of motorsport in both indy and nascar.

For starters, indycar, to the dismay of many fans, spends very little time on ovals nowadays. Indycar has instead become the pinnacle of a drivers championship. No power steering, no power brakes, and the only race series in the world that competes on four completely different types of race tracks: Natural terrain road courses, City street courses, short ovals, and superspeedways. The driver who wins the championship in this series has to perform on all four of these track types. IMO, Indycar is where you go if you want to see the top drivers in the world compete head to head.

NASCAR, I'm more inclined to agree with it being a joke, but not because of ovals, just because of the new rules package. The high downforce package and low horsepower make for a very different spectacle. I would say there's still a lot of talent involved though. Watch an onboard and these guys are constantly working the wheel.

While I totally understand that this is your opinion, I could not disagree more and hope that I can show you the light towards enjoying North American motorsport

Thats your point of view and quite possibly you are a fan. Nothing will ever convince me otherwise. Sure it takes skill and concentration to race in a tight pack but going round and round and round and round oh sorry I fell asleep.

 

[MatskiMonk]

RE: Catch fencing...
It's fun to say "I'd take the risk"...I think most of us would.

Indeed. Pretty much anyone who purchases or uses a ticket to an event has confirmed to the venue that they accept the risk, it's in the terms and conditions.

You know who wouldn't? The owners of the circuit who'll get sued into the ground when a random spectator gets smeared by a wheel. Racing circuits are already struggling to stay in business most of the time, fighting noise complaints (yes, from people who moved nearby 20-50 years after the race circuit was founded...), etc. We know how shockingly litigious the world is today - no business/property owner in their right mind won't do all the stuff they need to do to avoid being bankrupted by legal action against them for an "unsafe" venue, etc.

This is partly why the circuits will have some kind of insurance agreements in place. It's not quite about being "unsafe", motorsport is dangerous - it's in the conditions you accept by attending a race, it's on the ticket, it's on signs on the fences --- when it comes to getting sued it's about negligence. With that in mind, IMHO it's more likely that fences go up to help keep unavoidable and ongoing insurance premiums down, rather than avert the risk of actually getting proven to be negligent via litigation, in the unlikely situation something goes wrong.

I don't think anyone likes catch fencing from an aesthetic point of view, but I'd rather see it in place than lose more tracks.

Well I would agree, but that'd probably make me a bit of a hypocrite. I'm on record as saying if people want to support motorsport, to go to races and actually hand over money... rather than just watching it on TV and having an opinion on it... yet here we are, I'm not attending the BTCC finale at Brands this year, and I didn't go to DTM either... these decisions are in part because the new fences negatively impact the experience of spectating on the GP loop.

I mean I know it's all inevitable... but I don't condone it, and I'd rather other options were considered.

 

[TheElbows]

But that's kinda my point. A racetrack cannot get insurance (or good enough insurance) without that stuff. Insurance companies aren't dumb. They inspect the tracks to determine the costs of that insurance, and if they're even willing to insure it in the first place (I doubt many, if any racetracks are financially stable enough to be self-insured). I think we're all aware of how insane the world is right now - even with insurance in place (or all the waivers in the world), lawsuits would still happen.

I mean if you're in the UK you should be aware that more or less airshows are rapidly disappearing because that one guy cocked up and crashed his jet into that highway a few years back. Even outlandish, one-off accidents can have tremendous impacts on cultural hobbies/enjoyment.

Even with all the waivers in the world, no track or motorsport would survive a car smearing a family across the park...it'd kill motorsport in general for the whole damn country - at least the way our world operates right now. I think you and I agree that 99% of this forum's population is the sort who'd be clinging to a tree, reaching out to touch a flying rally car as it jumps past...but...we need to consider the bat**** crazy world we live in, and how quickly good and fun things are yanked away due to legal nonsense. It sucks but I feel like we're clinging to what we can keep in place, even if we need to bend to the gods of catch-fencing every now and then.

I think we'd all like other options to be considered - but I don't see any other options.

 

[Northstar]

I could go one further right there all american sports are a joke really ha ha.

I have a hard time thinking of a sport (from any country) that isn't a joke. Hell, the most popular sport in the world is kicking a ball around on a glorified lawn!

Just think, people are getting paid millions, to utilize skills they learned as toddlers!

but going round and round and round and round oh sorry I fell asleep.

So I take it you only like P2P racing?

 

[MIE1992]

I actually have a hard time watching motorsports, and I'm more enthralled by the idea of driving myself, or at least watching someone that I know personally. It's a lot like watching Let's Plays or Twitch streamers: there'll be exceptions that are legitimately interesting, but for most part, it's just hard for me to pay attention. The same applies to most sports, really. I find it hard to be emotionally invested in relative strangers (as competent & skilled as they may be in their field) when I have myself, my family, friends, and other acquaintances to be concerned about.

If most motorsport drivers - or even most athletes & sports stars in general - permanently retired in a few months, and collectively decided to go completely under the radar, I can't say I'd care. I'd likely forget about it in a month.

 

[flamingchariot]

I have a hard time thinking of a sport (from any country) that isn't a joke. Hell, the most popular sport in the world is kicking a ball around on a glorified lawn!

Just think, people are getting paid millions, to utilize skills they learned as toddlers!



So I take it you only like P2P racing?

I don't even know what that means ...speak in clear english not jargon please ...but hell yes to the comment on football - its so overrated ...and don't get me started on the types of people that like it and justify how great it is....yeah mate!!!! They call anything sport nowadays thats even worse.

I ride bikes now that's some real action right there, on the road avoiding road ragers ha ha, or using gravity to get speed.

 

[die996]

Darren Cox is the human form of chronic failure. Nobody should ever give him a managing position ever again. He could probably drive Mercedes AMG Petronas Motorsport into bankruptcy in like 2 years.

 

[Grand Prix]

Eau Rouge was a far more interesting corner when it had a tighter radius and required some braking before it. That's the conclusion I have come to after driving 1960s Spa in sims. The current Eau Rouge, with the straighter profile that can be taken flat-out in cars with a lot of downforce, doesn't appeal to me as much. Eau Rogue should be the ultimate test of a driver's skills with weight transfer and grip management, not a straight pretending to be an S curve.

If Eau Rouge was slower with a tighter radius, it would also be safer as a bonus.

 

[Veinz]

I can get behind gravel at low and medium speed corners, but people asking for gravel at the high speed stuff like Raidillon have gravel in there heads. It just potentially creates a new set of problems.

Highly doubt Magnussen would have walked away from his crash there a few years back if it was gravel. The floor probably would have dug in and sent him barrel rolling into the barriers.

 

[Jimlaad43]

Hartley's crash at Silverstone last year showed exactly why tarmac is superior to gravel. The car was spinning and slowing down on the tarmac and would have hit the tyres "safely", but as soon as it hit the gravel, the car took off and the accident went from vaguely under control to a completely out of control aeroplane accident. Gravel is only useful for punishing mistakes, it is not a good safety feature.

 

[ShiftingGears]

Tarmac run off is overused. There was no need for it at the Bruxelles hairpin at Spa, and if it is needed, it means that the cars are too fast.

I don't see the point of having cars continue to break lap records if facilitating it means reducing the challenge of the circuit. It makes racing dull and makes motorsport more predictable. I want to see drivers risk crashing to go fast.

There aren't enough corners like the degner curves in F1, where if you screw up, you're likely out of the race.

 

[die996]

THE SAUSAGE KERB THAT SENT THE F3 IN THE AIR WAS ACTUALLY OK

That sausage kerb is placed so drivers either do not go off-track or they have to go the long way around, Alex Peroni drove like a moron and paid it. The car would never fly if you hit the kerb naturally. Also, normal kerbs can also send a car flying if you hit them the wrong way around (backside-first).

 

[Jimlaad43]

THE SAUSAGE KERB THAT SENT THE F3 IN THE AIR WAS ACTUALLY OK

That sausage kerb is placed so drivers either do not go off-track or they have to go the long way around, Alex Peroni drove like a moron and paid it. The car would never fly if you hit the kerb naturally. Also, normal kerbs can also send a car flying if you hit them the wrong way around (backside-first).

Undoubtedly it worked as a deterrent and something is needed to stop them running wide there with the tarmac, but a deterrent isnt supposed to break someone's back and cause aeroplane accidents, regardless of if a driver is driving like an idiot or not.

 

[TenEightyOne]

THE SAUSAGE KERB THAT SENT THE F3 IN THE AIR WAS ACTUALLY OK

Yes, it was okay to fit something that could do that so easily

Alex Peroni drove like a moron and paid it. The car would never fly if you hit the kerb naturally.

I didn't see anything unnatural in the way he hit it... so as with your lengthy posts on this in the other thread I just can't tell if you're being serious or a supreme edgelord.

 

[FerrariF1GT]

I don't want the V12s back. Hybrid/electric is the future whether you like it or not, Mr. Vettel.

 

[TheCracker]

Tarmac run off is overused. There was no need for it at the Bruxelles hairpin at Spa, and if it is needed, it means that the cars are too fast.

I don't see the point of having cars continue to break lap records if facilitating it means reducing the challenge of the circuit. It makes racing dull and makes motorsport more predictable. I want to see drivers risk crashing to go fast.

There aren't enough corners like the degner curves in F1, where if you screw up, you're likely out of the race.

Tarmac isn't just there to make over-running a corner safer, but it also stops disruption of a race. If a race has to be run under a safety car whilst a car buried in a gravel trap is recovered then it slows down proceedings. It seriously interrupts a 60 lap Grand Prix length race, it would likely bring to an early end a 12 lap club level race on a meeting with a packed schedule.

 

[ShiftingGears]

Tarmac isn't just there to make over-running a corner safer, but it also stops disruption of a race. If a race has to be run under a safety car whilst a car buried in a gravel trap is recovered then it slows down proceedings. It seriously interrupts a 60 lap Grand Prix length race, it would likely bring to an early end a 12 lap club level race on a meeting with a packed schedule.

Yes, but what you gain with less disruptions you lose with the loss of challenge and spectacle, more predictable races, declining driving standards and contentious steward decisions.

 

[Pete05]

The second last corner at Goodwood is a double-apex right turn with a tarmac run-off on the outside.

The clever bit?
There’s somewhere in the region of 12-24” of grass strip in between the racing circuit & the run-off area. It’s enough to unsettle the car & ruin your lap so no one wants to use the out of bounds, no laps disqualified for exceeding track limits, no Stewards enquiries etc....

Why this isn’t a standard FIA requirement, especially where it’s needed, I’ll never know.

I know why they brought in the tarmac run off but I hate them for taking away the fear of going off.
Where are the rewards for the brave & skilled these days?

At least with the Goodwood solution that partly returns minus the bodily consequences.

 

[TheCracker]

Yes, but what you gain with less disruptions you lose with the loss of challenge and spectacle, more predictable races, declining driving standards and contentious steward decisions.

If you want challenge, spectacle and less contentious stewards decisions then why not get rid of gravel traps and paved run-off areas altogether and just go back to nice slippery grass verges?