B-Spec "Scientific" Study

gibus
yes that's why his skill increases...

what's your personall fastest and best way to increase bob's skill?
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so does runnin special cars around the track increase his skill i heard it does....no one respondin to this?
 
dking
so does runnin special cars around the track increase his skill i heard it does....no one respondin to this?
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Any car has the potential of earning B-spec points as long as those points haven't already been collected. Points get used up. I am confident that someone could tune only FR Normal cars from low to high and collect all 10000 points. The problem with the special cars is that you can't earn the battle points because they can't be raced. The trick is to do something different, and make the races close. Tune any car (up or down) and maybe collect different B-spec points using the same modifications as A-spec; HP, tires, weight, and downforce.

If your battle skill is lagging behind the course skill, it is probably because you are winning by too much. The races need to be close or you won't get as much battle skill. Either use less powerful cars, or wait until the last minute to take the lead. Machine skill isn't too hard to max at 100. Most of the missing points tend to be either very low power (~100 HP) or earned from un-upgraded race cars (~500 HP). However, battle points are the only points you really need to worry about, the machine and course points are earned anyway if your car qualifies.

Check this link for a post by TigJackson on page 2 and my follow up on page 4.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=61033&page=2&pp=20
For more info on the history of B-spec Point Theory, check this link.
http://andypsionfan.users.btopenworld.com/GT4/bspec01.html.
Cars and tuning are based on a Japanese website and translated by itazura_da; author is not identified.
http://www.geocities.jp/j8ba7yrg/gt4/7_10000.html


Floating Points (Family Cup on Nurburgring)
Race these cars and tunings. Don’t pass until after the hairpin (second split). If you pass the leader too soon, quit right away (works great after about 1 lap for floating points only). Repeat until no more points are earned. Collect 7051/100/70/70. (Milestones for 0-7051 B-points from Toga1976 are in red.) Estimate 30 to 40 races to collect all floating points.

Lupo A: VW Lupo 1.4 default (598)
Miata A: Mazda MX-5 1800 default (1335)
Miata B: Miata + supercharger (2249)
Miata C: Mitata + turbo 3 (3326)
RSC A: Toyota RSC Rally Raid default (4416)
RSC B: RSC + medium racing tires (5399)
350Z A: Nissan 350Z Concept LM default (6290)
350Z B: 350Z + Turbo 4 (7051)

Track Points (58 B-spec Tracks)
Use Lupo A, Miata B, RSC B, and 350Z A to collect track points on each of the 57 remaining B-spec tracks (228 more races). Ignore Rally Tracks, Test Course, Tsukuba Wet and Suzuka West. Passing early is probably safe, but finishing close to the leader is most the important factor. I suggest repeating all short tracks.

* Set Family Cup difficulty to -3 (or -6 for short courses); adjust as needed to easily maintain 2nd place as skills increase and to avoid uber cars like the Ram or Prius Touring Selection. Note: With high skill levels, the B-driver will pass accidentally by taking turns much better than opponents and making far fewer mistakes. I prefer to follow in 3rd, and try for a tie - just for fun.

Edit: Following and not passing is not the best strategy. Increasing the difficulty setting or using the pit to allow a large lead on the second lap works much better. Use a pace of 1 (slow down) on the first race of the sub-class and pace 2-4 for follow up races. Maximize the yellow sector arrow for increased F-battle points. Bonuses are available for dramatic come-back wins.
10000/100/100/100 B-spec Points (there is no prize)
7000/100/70/70 earned anywhere (floating points).
3000/0/30/30 earned on each of the 58 B-spec tracks (track points).

4666 and 5/29th (floating) Machine points increase machine skill and course skill. (M100/C70)
2333 and 24/29th Floating Battle points increase battle skill. (B70)
2000 Course points increase course skill (100 pts for 1 skill).
1000 Track Battle points increase battle skill (33 and 1/3 for 1, whole points required) and course skill (100 for 1).
12 and 27/29th Track points per track. (8 and 18/29th Course points + 4 and 9/29th T-Battle points.)
Note: Spreadsheets will round the irregular fractions and quickly become inaccurate. Do all calculations in a single function.

 
Back on Topic – I suspect that overtake will have no influence on lap times if opponents are not near. I suggest using Fast to drive fast, and Push to push the other cars.

Overtake Theory

Overtake allows passing and may change the racing line. There is a preferred racing line used relentlessly by all AI-drivers, and a passing line. The passing line tends to be inside on corners, and outside for sweepers and straights when an opponent is near.

If overtake is left on during a close race, the B-spec driver is likely to be out of position for approaching passes. For example, in a failed attempt to pass on a straight, the car will be on an outside driving line when approaching an inside passing opportunity. Reset the passing line for each section of track by toggling overtake, or leave overtake off until the opportunity becomes available. Toggling overtake during extreme braking or acceleration can cause problems with weight shift which can loose valuable time in a close battle. It is safer to toggle overtake while going straight, and most effective when timed properly.

Consider the desired ending position when deciding when to pass during complex turns. It is often more effective to pass during the second turn of a chicane, but it is possible to dive inside-inside-inside and pass 3 cars by toggling overtake each time. You can toggle overtake to block an opponents passing attempt by watching from the rear bumper view and changing the driving line as needed (credit Ace_Maverick for the blocking strategy). When exiting a turn side-by-side with an opponent, it is possible to force the other car off the side of the track by turning off overtake and switching to the preferred outside racing line.

Pace Theory

Pace Settings of 1 – 5 (Slow Down, Cruise, Steady, Fast, and Push) seem to have more influence on how turns are taken and less influence on how hard or when the driver accelerates. Pace settings appear to have very little influence on lap times for Test Course where the influence of turn speed can be minimized. For this reason, I tend to use the pace to control how safely a turn is taken – basically, the safe braking distance.

A B-spec driver with maxed out skills cannot drive all courses set at pace 5, push. There will be frequent mistakes because Push means take the turn too fast and try to hit the other car. A B-driver with high battle skill will expertly nudge the other car off the track or rub the side of the car to take a turn faster when set to Push. I suggest that this setting should not be used unless there is another car directly ahead to absorb the impact. I suspect that the B-driver will be less likely to Push the leader across the finish line if Fast is used to pass down the straight, but this has not been tested at low or mid B-spec levels.
 
In time trial mode /free run, whatever you want to call it, it doesnt matter so much as there is no tire wear. However on most of the B Spec races (For some reason i call Stanley, not Bob) I leave it on 5 setting, overlap, which cuts the laptimes considerably, but the tires can wear out 2 or even 3 laps earlier, which all adds up on those long endurance races. I theorised the B-spec driver doesnt use the driving aids, as when i tested my Mustang GT on El Capitan, when i start, the wheels spin frantically. However B-Bob / Stanley Pulls away with no spin at all... Thats one way of testing, or you could spend 9 minutes on the hardest corse on the game. Profound.
 
vtec_guy
does b-spec bob learn anything in free run?
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It is possible to earn B-spec levels of 6666/100/90/0 without racing. Point collection methods have been tested for Practice mode and Photo mode. I've heard rumors that Arcade mode can collect B-spec points too (this rumor has since been shown to be incorrect). I suspect the B-driver will earn points when used for any mode as long as some points for that car, tuning and track remain.
 
I may do some testing tonight as I am trying to find a car that can do 6 laps on the Nurb 24 hour with a lap time around 7.15 or better.

The tyres on the Pescarolos will last but the fuel will not. I may try the Suzuki.[/QUOTE]

Try the Peugot LMP car. That car is really easy on tires since it's fairly light. I can't vouch for the 7:15 though. It feels like it has a very tight turning radius and should stay on the Nurb course at a high setting. I often wonder if lower numerical gearing helps fuel efficiency. I don't have time to experiment on these things. If the Peugot could do what you ask of it, it would probably be unbeatable in any endurance race. I've found that the Peugot really can't keep pace with the Minolta LMP, but still emerge slightly ahead of the Minolta in short endurance races due to fewer pit stops. But that also depends on the type of course and how many cars it has to overtake. I haven't fully broken in the Peugot yet so it's hp is still not at optimum. Good luck.
 
Orion_SR
A B-spec driver with maxed out skills cannot drive all courses set at pace 5, push. There will be frequent mistakes because Push means take the turn too fast and try to hit the other car. A B-driver with high battle skill will expertly nudge the other car off the track or rub the side of the car to take a turn faster when set to Push. I suggest that this setting should not be used unless there is another car directly ahead to absorb the impact. I suspect that the B-driver will be less likely to Push the leader across the finish line if Fast is used to pass down the straight, but this has not been tested at low or mid B-spec levels.
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What about turns in the game which B-drivers have frequent problems with; the blind right-hander at New York and the final hairpin at Sears Point being two prime examples. It seems that with an untrained driver you can actually guide him through these corners by switching down to 1 early in the preceding straight, and switching quickly to pace 5 (4 might do) about the time you hear it has finished braking. (i.e actually before it starts the turn).

As a B-driver gets more skill points, does he actually learn to properly negotiate those turns by himself on pace 3? pace 4? If so, is his progress course-specific? I.e. is it related to having earned all points available at the particular course in question? That is, might there be two different 8000/100/79/79 (say), one of which has learned New York, while the other hasn't?

Other problem spots include the Mulsanne Hairpin, and most of Suzuka East, especially if you're on the last lap and losing.
 
Orion_SR
I've heard rumors that Arcade mode can collect B-spec points too. I suspect the B-driver will earn points when used for any mode as long as some points for that car, tuning and track remain.
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I b-spec every car I get in Arcade (time trial) to get a benchmark performance number. I have yet to get any b-spec points for this even after 120 or so cars. I run the Ring, Cote and the test track each time.
 
SportWagon
As a B-driver gets more skill points, does he actually learn to properly negotiate those turns by himself on pace 3? pace 4? If so, is his progress course-specific? I.e. is it related to having earned all points available at the particular course in question? That is, might there be two different 8000/100/79/79 (say), one of which has learned New York, while the other hasn't?

Other problem spots include the Mulsanne Hairpin, and most of Suzuka East, especially if you're on the last lap and losing.
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The B-driver will get much better at the difficult turns at a higher pace. His ability to manage New York on setting 4, or other difficult turns, depends mostly on how well the car is tuned to take the corner in the manner the bots are programmed.

There was some debate about your theory of a driver knowing NY better than Sarthe, for example. However, very little of the course skill comes from course points (only 20%) and only 30% of course skill is from track points. 70% of course skill is earned from the machine points available anywhere. So each of the 58 tracks has very little influence over the course skill. And, these points are also divided separately by 4 power classes. Anyway, after observing the inter-related influences of the points on skills, I concluded that the consensus of Team B-spec was corrrect; all skills apply equally to all cars (machine), tracks (course), and races (battle).
 
I disagree with the proposal to merge the threads. I think having two is a good idea.

See my detailed explanation here...
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1812391

Perhaps you, Orion_SR, would like to start a third thread Definitive Bspec Conclusions, or something . . .

Obviously, this post doesn't really belong in this thread, either . . .
 
full_wick
Funny, I thought that WAS the purpose of B-Spec, managing and directing a driver. Not 'set it and forget it' and come back to some prize money and a new car. That's not really a game, is it? In the interest of full disclosure, though, yes, I have done just that with the 24hr races.💡
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I'm guilty. Take me away.
 
I would like to thank Orion_SR for 'saving' this thread as a scientific study.

I'm re-starting GT4 and have started a B-Spec blog over in the SOE Forum to log the races I'm doing any trying to draw some conslusions, most of which I've just read here.

Anyone interested can check it out if you so desire.

The Stig's B-Spec Blog
 
My Bob is a Spaz..... i left him overnight with the Nurb 24hr endurance to see what he could do, in a Minolta, on 2, and came back to find he was going 50MPH. I saw the thread about it btw....
 
I find it curious that different people have different B-spec glitches. I for one, have not yet had the problem where bob goes off into the wrong track. The only glitch I found is that every once in a while, if a single, specific tire goes full red and bob hits a wall, then he pretty much gets glued to the wall at slow speed and it takes a lot of button-pushing to get him to let go.

As to the philosophy of overtake vs not, after running almost every race in B-spec and with the "lousiest possible car that can win" (in addition to A-spec) I discovered that it is safer to keep it off unless you are overtaking. If you leave it is easier for a "high acceleration" competitor to push in from behind, and sometimes even slam you into a wall or out of the track. The "no overtake" line seems to be the safest unless you are pushing to pass.

Another technique that has worked wonders for me is to, in addition to the in-slow, out-fast approach, I also use 5 if I am going into a turn and I happen to be in the inside at the time... the car brakes later than the competitor and pushes forward. Bob *almost always* brakes better under those conditions than when alone, even with no car contact... maybe due to the collision avoidance attempts, but the point is, he takes a faster turn that he would not normally be able to do. I am not positive, but I think I gain about 1 second with this maneuver over what I would do on a clear road.
 
zPhoenix
I find it curious that different people have different B-spec glitches. I for one, have not yet had the problem where bob goes off into the wrong track. The only glitch I found is that every once in a while, if a single, specific tire goes full red and bob hits a wall, then he pretty much gets glued to the wall at slow speed and it takes a lot of button-pushing to get him to let go.

As to the philosophy of overtake vs not, after running almost every race in B-spec and with the "lousiest possible car that can win" (in addition to A-spec) I discovered that it is safer to keep it off unless you are overtaking. If you leave it is easier for a "high acceleration" competitor to push in from behind, and sometimes even slam you into a wall or out of the track. The "no overtake" line seems to be the safest unless you are pushing to pass.

Another technique that has worked wonders for me is to, in addition to the in-slow, out-fast approach, I also use 5 if I am going into a turn and I happen to be in the inside at the time... the car brakes later than the competitor and pushes forward. Bob *almost always* brakes better under those conditions than when alone, even with no car contact... maybe due to the collision avoidance attempts, but the point is, he takes a faster turn that he would not normally be able to do. I am not positive, but I think I gain about 1 second with this maneuver over what I would do on a clear road.
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I see the same points like when using five and in an overtaking position , he will act as if you are doing it yourself,sometimes he is full of surprises and displays confidence in the turns, even on setting 5, especially on a circuit like Opera Paris - around that circuit when he is alone on setting 5 he lightly brakes.... Upto ...the corners.

There has to be a balance found in using the pace settings at particular times and circuits and you may have found one.

---

AKA Dubitup
 
but its not only the b-spec driver you have to check more like the tires and the car youre driving in
 

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