Budget Tuning Challenge (BTC) - Update! 1 Division/Month, Slated for summer start

Budget Tuning Challenge (BTC)


Welcome to the Budget Tuning Challenge, a new competition with a twist. There are currently six divisions of cars. Each division separates cars by their price. Division 1 (D1) is the highest division, Division 6 (D6), is the lowest. Cars will be selected based on their price, which puts them into a division. Now before you go out and buy the most expensive car you can for each division, you should use some logic for the twist. I’m not going to spell it out completely, but let’s just say that these cars will be tuned later. The first month or so will be stock. I’m not telling any amount of tuning that will be done. It will definitely show which cars were the better choice, however.

You must compete in all divisions. I will give you roughly a month to choose your cars before we start any racing. I will keep a record of everybody’s car modifications, spending, etc., to make sure everything stays legal. I think the rules below are about all that is needed. If I remember something I will add it. Like I said, the start date is not confirmed yet.

Rules:

General Guidelines

• All laps should follow the OLR standards.
• At least two tires on or directly above the track at all times.
• Absolutely no wall touching.
• No cheating.
• No hybrids.
• Questionable areas of track will be addressed.
• If you still aren’t sure if a lap is clean, post a photo.
• Cars must be represented correctly.
• You MUST follow the budget.
• Your budget must be tracked completely and the information given to me.
• Cheating will not be tolerated, you will be banned immediately.
• If you see something suspicious in somebody else’s car, time, budget, or anything else, PM me. DO NOT SAY ANYTHING IN THE THREAD.
• If a mistake has been made in your budget I will point it out and you must correct it.

Budget Guidelines

Your budget must be sent to me in a PM, it must include the following.

• Price, full vehicle name (make, model, year, etc.), color, mileage, and desired division.
• Updated mileage at the end of each round.
• All spending in each round (when legal).
• All modification in each round (when legal).
• All modification changes in each round (when legal).
• More requirements may be added as I find the need.
• Nitrous is the only mod not allowed.
• All parts will be purchased by using the given funds.


Time Submissions

Your time must be submitted with the following information in a PM (separate from budget PM).
• Car
• Track
• Fastest lap

Divisions

Division 1 (D1) - 1-100,000CR

This is the fastest division, where a majority of street cars are available, along with a handful of super cars. Your vehicle must cost between 1CR and 100,000CR.

Division 2 (D2) – 1-75,000CR

This division cuts down the available cars slightly and restricts several strong cars.

Division 3 (D3) – 1-50,000CR

This division cuts down the performance even more to allow medium performance cars to be the leaders of the pack.

Division 4 (D4) – 1-30,000CR

This division makes car selection start to become a very delicate decision. Used cars are the wisest choice for this division

Division 5 (D5) – 1-20,000CR

This division leaves mostly used cars to be competitive. New cars will not be fast enough here.

Division 6 (D6) – 1-10,000CR

With only two new cars available for less than 10,000CR, used cars will be the only ones that compete.


Feedback is wanted on the following subject(s):

Should we do one division race per week (each division will race at the same venue, but not the same week), two divisions per week, or have the round open for a full month to submit all times?


Feel free to ask me questions if something needs explained in more detail. As I said earlier, the twist of the competition is not knowing whether faster and more expensive stock cars is better than a cheaper, slower model that you could slap a turbo on. Tuning will be explained once the signup is over and all cars are confirmed.

Updates

Racing will begin sometime this summer, one division per month, 7,500 credit starting budget (includes car an any mods besides nitrous). More information in posts #50 and #56.

I like the idea except for having to run in all the divisions. I don't have time for tuning six cars per week.

The Internet

I like the idea except for having to run in all the divisions. I don't have time for tuning six cars per week.

Click to expand...

Thats what i was thinking but other than that i think it is a great idea and i would enter.

I vote for one race per week.

Can we use money left over form the purchase price for buying parts? You indicated the first few races would be stock which would seem to mean NO?

Are you going to compete in this? If so, I think you need to divulge the "twist". Because YOU know what the "twist" is and it will affect YOUR car choice and give yo an unfair advantage over the rest of us. ALL competitors should have the same information when making car choices.

Venue could also affect car choice. For some tracks I may choose a 4WD vs FWD or RWD. Any chance you could decide on the venue / division combinations? Again, if you're competing, you know the combos and I think it might give you an unfair advantage.

Will the competitors car selections be made public before the race? If so are you going to allow changes?

What about prize car values? If I want to run the Shelby Mustang which has no price do you use the value show in the garage?

I'm truly not trying to cause problems. I really like this concept. I just like to be able to make informed choices based on the same information EVERYBODY has.

I would also be interested in this, but I would only have time for about one race a week, especially if there is tuning involved.

Would there be any circumstances where you could change the car you chose for a division?

Lots of other great questions already asked. Looking forward to more info on this.

Peter J. Ford

A few Questions:

1) How are you going to inforce driving aids? Sure, saying they will cost 3000cr is a good way to deter people if your looking over their shoulder.

2) Why penalize drivers who wish to use driving aids? It should be drivers choice.

3) Why require a driver to compete in all divisions? With six divisions, even with running 1 division a week, thats SIX weeks before you restart a division. I only point this out because many people have, between other racing series, school, work, and other activities.

4) Since each division requires cars to be between 1cr and the maximum allowed, can a driver choose one car and stick with it the whole series for each division?

5) Will parts be carried over to each race or will parts have to be de-equiped and "re-purchased?" I only ask this because of this:

• All spending in each round (when legal).
• All modification in each round (when legal).
• All modification changes in each round (when legal).

Click to expand...

The budget racing is one of my favorite types of racing, so this is a great idea, it just seems like it needs some fine tuning.

Yay! Lots of (mostly) positive replies. I didn't get any of those when I started this at the Playstation forums...

I'll edit this post with answers to your questions, one by one.

The Internet and Boomboy: The racing will consist of one race (one division) per week.

Goixoye: (Answers in bold)

"I vote for one race per week.
And you have that.

Can we use money left over form the purchase price for buying parts? You indicated the first few races would be stock which would seem to mean NO?
The first round will be stock, round 2 will be with all the money left over from that division (no nitrous).

Are you going to compete in this? If so, I think you need to divulge the "twist". Because YOU know what the "twist" is and it will affect YOUR car choice and give yo an unfair advantage over the rest of us. ALL competitors should have the same information when making car choices.
The answer above is about all I have right now. I will expand the budgets after a few races (undecided on how many), but I haven't decided by how much or anything. I've selected my cars already. Would you like me to post them so you know I haven't changed?

Venue could also affect car choice. For some tracks I may choose a 4WD vs FWD or RWD. Any chance you could decide on the venue / division combinations? Again, if you're competing, you know the combos and I think it might give you an unfair advantage.
Tracks have not been decided yet. Nurburgring, La Sarthe and Infineon will be in for sure. There will be a good variety, though.

Will the competitors car selections be made public before the race? If so are you going to allow changes?
Right now I plan on announcing the car selections once the signup is closed. I doubt changes will be allowed.

What about prize car values? If I want to run the Shelby Mustang which has no price do you use the value show in the garage?
Tough one. If they were to be used, their price would be the resale value*4.705.

I'm truly not trying to cause problems. I really like this concept. I just like to be able to make informed choices based on the same information EVERYBODY has."
No problems. You had a few questions I was asked at PSU, but you were much kinder about it.

Peterjford: I think I answered all of your questions in the above posts.

Darkwind: (Answers in bold)

A few Questions:

1) How are you going to inforce driving aids? Sure, saying they will cost 3000cr is a good way to deter people if your looking over their shoulder.
That can be removed, I suppose. I'll take it off now.

2) Why penalize drivers who wish to use driving aids? It should be drivers choice.
Removed the requirement. I just think people need to get away from driving with aids. They can be faster that way and learn to drive better. Few cars in this price range absolutely need traction control.

3) Why require a driver to compete in all divisions? With six divisions, even with running 1 division a week, thats SIX weeks before you restart a division. I only point this out because many people have, between other racing series, school, work, and other activities.
I'll get some more opinions on this before I cut down the requirement. My other option was having one month-long round so you could drive whatever division whenever and turn in all the times at the end of the month. I will switch to that if we cut down the division requirement, I think.
4) Since each division requires cars to be between 1cr and the maximum allowed, can a driver choose one car and stick with it the whole series for each division?
The car can be the same model, but it must be a separate car (different color, etc.)

5) Will parts be carried over to each race or will parts have to be de-equiped and "re-purchased?" I only ask this because of this:

The budget will always represent the total price of the car and any mods. Lets say that the budget has just increased and in the last round you had a stage 1 turbo on the car. You won't just subtract the price of the turbo and get a full refund. Instead you can "sell back" the part for half of its price. If you did a displacement upgrade to you Skyline, you are stuck with that mod through the whole series. If you put a racing exhaust on in say, round 2, and you were given a larger budget for round 3, you would be able to spend the value of - (budget-car price-price of all mods on car).


I think that answers about everything for now. If I missed something or you want a better explanation just ask. 👍

I'm only interested in competing in Div 6. Is that okay?

Also, Nurb and La Sarthe may not be the best tracks for racing budget-minded cars. I'd recommend shorter tracks with fewer long straights.

Things seem to be shaping up nicely.

You mention giving us one month or so for car selections. I assume when the month actually begins you will actually set a deadline with date and time? Of course one problem with this is what if somebody wants to join in mid-series...I doubt you would really want to exclude anyone who is interested in participating. Of course if you let that person participate he or she will have the advantage of seeing everyone else's choices. And original participants won't have the ability to change cars...kind of a quandry. If someone does a significant amount of research and finds an outstanding car for a particular class then they should benefit from that research and not someone else just because they saw it on somebodys list.

Whether or not you post your car choices is up to you. I guess that kind of goes back to my statement above. If you've found a "dark horse" car and share it with us then you might lose an advantage. If you've selected a car that someone else picks then someone could say you changed your selection after seeing their PM selection...again a quandry.

I'm not trying to imply that you're dishonest or even that I think you are. You've apparently made your choices so I'd keep them private...you'll know if you change them upon seeing the selections of others and have to live with it.

What is the logic behind the 4.705 multiplier for prize cars with no value? Just curious. I guess the unpriced concept cars fit into this category too? Altough some cars don't have a resale value...you just have to give them away (VW Nardo amoung others).

Goixoye: "Things seem to be shaping up nicely. Thank you.

You mention giving us one month or so for car selections. I assume when the month actually begins you will actually set a deadline with date and time? Of course one problem with this is what if somebody wants to join in mid-series...I doubt you would really want to exclude anyone who is interested in participating. Of course if you let that person participate he or she will have the advantage of seeing everyone else's choices. And original participants won't have the ability to change cars...kind of a quandry. If someone does a significant amount of research and finds an outstanding car for a particular class then they should benefit from that research and not someone else just because they saw it on somebodys list.
Yeah, the "about a month" thing isn't really written in stone right now. I told Natalya that I may wait until January to start it, if that sounds alright with you guys. Joining mid-series would give that person some advantage, but they would also be at a loss of points. I'll let you guys decide on this one. If we have a lot of drivers I probably won't allow it, but if we are lacking drivers I might. Just another thing that needs tied up.


Whether or not you post your car choices is up to you. I guess that kind of goes back to my statement above. If you've found a "dark horse" car and share it with us then you might lose an advantage. If you've selected a car that someone else picks then someone could say you changed your selection after seeing their PM selection...again a quandry.
My cars aren't anything special. Actually, all of them are used cars purchased for less than 40,000CR each besides D1. I'm going to see if I can use the extra money to my advantage and try to beat the faster, more expensive, ones.

I'm not trying to imply that you're dishonest or even that I think you are. You've apparently made your choices so I'd keep them private...you'll know if you change them upon seeing the selections of others and have to live with it.
I understand. If you guys feel that I need to post them I will, though. I'll keep them private for now. What I said above would limit my choices if I were to change them now, anyways. Any changes that I do make (not very likely that I will make any) would be to change my cars around to a different division. I think I have them worked out pretty well right now so they should stay the same.

What is the logic behind the 4.705 multiplier for prize cars with no value? Just curious. I guess the unpriced concept cars fit into this category too? Altough some cars don't have a resale value...you just have to give them away (VW Nardo amoung others)."

The resale value of cars appears to be the original price divided by 4.705xxxxxx. Multiplying the resale value by this gives a price pretty close to what it was new. The AC 427 (my guinea pig for finding that out) is only off by 1,000CR or maybe less, by doing that. That is with a 422,xxx or so price, so something under 100,000CR would vary less than 250 credits. Cars without a value can't be used for this reason.

Dave_George

Hi ebiggs,

I like the sound of this idea, as with most ideas put forward it has merit, however i cant help feeling there is a lot going on at once....

I can speak from personal experience that even a series like mine dedicated to one track and 1 car per week can take a lot of time and effort to organise and run.

Why not start the series with 1 specific tuning budget and run with that, then if its a success move onto phase two?

I think you may run into trouble with people having the time to run, as has already been said most folk are at school/college/university (delete as appropriate) or part/full time employed...I myself fall into both categories being full time employed and also a part time mature student, running my NRS has forced me to stop running in the WRS and im struggling to find time to compete in events such as Jeromes Rally series. So its something to consider as a major factor i think.

Good idea though and i hope it takes off for you.

regards

DAVE

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Dave, your competition takes up much more time because the track is almost 13 miles long! I'm sticking with the six divisions right now, but thanks for the advice.

Do I need to repeat myself?

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2012174&postcount=8

Ebiggs

Dave, your competition takes up much more time because the track is almost 13 miles long!

Click to expand...

I disagree with that completely, I think most people have roughly the same amount of time each week to devote to OLR, the track length just means fewer laps are run per week.....nothing more.

I was thinking not only of the people racing but also for yourself trying to collate info, working out results, doing leaderboards etc etc, im sure you have it all worked out though, was just speaking with my own experience in mind. 👍

Good luck

Dave

Relative to the resale multiplier. The 4.705 seems to be accurate for NEW cars but the multiplier seems to be 4.000 for USED cars. I only bring this up because I've got a few cars in my garage that I purchased "used" and would like to use them in the competition. Any chance I could get you to reconsider the multiplier value?

Relative to folks joining late. I failed to realize that they'd lose points because they hadn't participated from the beginning. So I say let 'em join at any time.

EDIT:
I assume "stock" would allow an oil change?
Curious about how the series will be run. Will it be "time trial" style (no tire wear) or will we compete in races with on-track competition (w/ tire wear). I ask this because of considering tire upgrades. In a "time trial" situation the best tires that can be afforded is the obvious answer because of no tire wear...but if tire wear will be an issue it would affect tire selection...also the length of race (track length x number of laps) would be an issue too. Have you made a decision about this yet? This could likely have an impact on my car selections.

goixoye

Relative to the resale multiplier. The 4.705 seems to be accurate for NEW cars but the multiplier seems to be 4.000 for USED cars. I only bring this up because I've got a few cars in my garage that I purchased "used" and would like to use them in the competition. Any chance I could get you to reconsider the multiplier value?

Relative to folks joining late. I failed to realize that they'd lose points because they hadn't participated from the beginning. So I say let 'em join at any time.

EDIT:
I assume "stock" would allow an oil change?
Curious about how the series will be run. Will it be "time trial" style (no tire wear) or will we compete in races with on-track competition (w/ tire wear). I ask this because of considering tire upgrades. In a "time trial" situation the best tires that can be afforded is the obvious answer because of no tire wear...but if tire wear will be an issue it would affect tire selection...also the length of race (track length x number of laps) would be an issue too. Have you made a decision about this yet? This could likely have an impact on my car selections.

Click to expand...

How did you come up with 4.000? Did you compare the used price to the sell price? Used cars are obviously going to have a lower difference, as in real life. I'll check it tonight and confirm it, though.

Yes, I'm going to allow an oil change. I wasn't going to to begin with, but 50CR shouldn't matter. You'll just be submitting the fastest lap you can get in GT Mode - Practice/Free Run, so yes, Time Trial.


Dave: I meant that it takes up much more time because there are far more places to mess up on. The Nurb is so long that you could run a completely perfect lap down until the second to last right, hitting the wall instead. There you wasted 7-8 minutes. There is also much more track to perfect, whereas many of the courses in the game you could get the line down much quicker.

Soyfu: "Soyfu
Do I need to repeat myself?

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showp...174&postcount=8"

I'd prefer people to race all six divisions, but I'm considering this. I thought I replied to you already. You could have been a little nicer about asking.

I bought two used cars, both with 6.2 miles, and then checked their garage value. In both cases the purchase value / garage value was 4.000???. I also bought a new Dodge SRT4 and check it's value and found it to be the 4.705 (or close enough) you've noted. I don't know if the 6.2 mile thing would affect the ratio or not...I probably should've checked that. If this is a problem I could just cycle through the used cars until what I want shows up again...but that is such a pain.

Something else which someone might consider a form of "cheating" but I'll ask anyway....With Codebreaker you can download a game save with a full garage of NEW cars. That's right 0.0 miles. I've got that full garage on a separate memory card. Occassionally when I need (or want) a particular car I buy it from that memory card into my main game. These "new" cars do have higher purchase values than their "used" counterparts. I've not paid any attention to purchase vs resale value. I think they have higher HP levels than their used (higher mileage) counterparts but I haven't looked relative to the 6.2 mile cars to see if HP levels are the same (I would think they should be?) I assume these cars cannot be used in this competition even with their higher value? These cars do not seems to be "hybrids"...their performance seems to match expectations. So it would seems that this would not be outside the rules?

Goixoye: "I bought two used cars, both with 6.2 miles, and then checked their garage value. In both cases the purchase value / garage value was 4.000???. I also bought a new Dodge SRT4 and check it's value and found it to be the 4.705 (or close enough) you've noted. I don't know if the 6.2 mile thing would affect the ratio or not...I probably should've checked that. If this is a problem I could just cycle through the used cars until what I want shows up again...but that is such a pain.

Okay then, multiply the sell price of a used car by 4 to get your price, then, if you already had it. Using 4.705 would give you a higher price than if you went and bought an identical car again, according to your information. I'll check that with the non-6.2 mile used cars in just a few minutes. You can go ahead and use those cars unless I find something else out.

Something else which someone might consider a form of "cheating" but I'll ask anyway....With Codebreaker you can download a game save with a full garage of NEW cars. That's right 0.0 miles. I've got that full garage on a separate memory card. Occassionally when I need (or want) a particular car I buy it from that memory card into my main game. These "new" cars do have higher purchase values than their "used" counterparts. I've not paid any attention to purchase vs resale value. I think they have higher HP levels than their used (higher mileage) counterparts but I haven't looked relative to the 6.2 mile cars to see if HP levels are the same (I would think they should be?) I assume these cars cannot be used in this competition even with their higher value? These cars do not seems to be "hybrids"...their performance seems to match expectations. So it would seems that this would not be outside the rules?

Don't use the 0.0 mile used only cars. Not everybody has access to them, so I would consider it to be cheating. I guess that explains my 0.0 mile Supra from Z.'s gamesave.

Everyone: Please make sure that the used cars you are using haven't had a chassis refresh. I don't think 6.2 mile (10km) cars have it as an option, however.

Hey guys, could you PM your friends and ask them to join this? It feels like we're making progress here but the only conversation is with Goixoye and Dave...

Also, I'm going to cut down the requirement to run six divisions. However, I may just lower it to 2. In doing so I would likely change the rounds so that it is one open round for a month, so you can split up the time for each division as you want. What are you opinions on shortening the round? I would much rather you still run all six divisions if it is possible for you. I think a month is plenty of time to get six laps in.

Ebiggs

I would much rather you still run all six divisions if it is possible for you. I think a month is plenty of time to get six laps in.

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A month is plenty of time to do 6 laps but you also need to factor in the time it takes to tune the car and some time that can take a long time. I think maybe 4 divisions a month would be better because you get a week per division.

boomboy

A month is plenty of time to do 6 laps but you also need to factor in the time it takes to tune the car and some time that can take a long time. I think maybe 4 divisions a month would be better because you get a week per division.

Click to expand...

Not all of the classes will have full tuning ability. For D6, you have less than 5,000CR to spend on parts(and thats if you are using a City Turbo) once you can use the rest of the budget.

So are you still going to do this cause if you are ill sign up.

I'm ready to go whenever you give the go ahead!!

Yeah, guys. It's still on if there is interest. Not sure about the interest part, though. I only have one official entry, The Internet. This will start the first week of February. I hope to have everyone signed up and everything 100% sorted out mid-January, but I know that won't happen. Please tell your friends to join. I attempted to run this on the PlayStation Underground boards but they just posed a bunch of questions that I answered by quoting parts of the first post. I just don't want this one to flop like it did over there.

I suggest simplifying it. I think fewer classes and more flexibility in upgrades would make it more appealing.

I'm still interested. Back when this first came up I short listed my choices. I've even considered using the same car across all divisions but likely will not do that. I'd like to only participate in one competition at a time. Right now I'm in Dave_George's NRS that I believe will extend into mid-February-ish. I hope I can at least minimize the overlap because I feel like the quality of my participation will diminish in both series' when it occurs. Although I am beginning to feel like the NRS is coming a little easier each week as I get to know the track a little better.

So do you have any idea about a start date (or deadline for entries) or is that dependent on interest?

I still really like your concept about budget...hope that it's only one race per week. How long will your series go? I believe you've indicated starting off in "stock" only trim and then I guess "full modified" to the budget limits. This would mean at least 12 events even if it were only 2 events for each division? Or are you planning something different?

goixoye

I'm still interested. Back when this first came up I short listed my choices. I've even considered using the same car across all divisions but likely will not do that. I'd like to only participate in one competition at a time. Right now I'm in Dave_George's NRS that I believe will extend into mid-February-ish. I hope I can at least minimize the overlap because I feel like the quality of my participation will diminish in both series' when it occurs. Although I am beginning to feel like the NRS is coming a little easier each week as I get to know the track a little better.

So do you have any idea about a start date (or deadline for entries) or is that dependent on interest?

I still really like your concept about budget...hope that it's only one race per week. How long will your series go? I believe you've indicated starting off in "stock" only trim and then I guess "full modified" to the budget limits. This would mean at least 12 events even if it were only 2 events for each division? Or are you planning something different?

Click to expand...

The start date and such is pretty much dependent on interest at this point. I will be keeping it one race per week. How long? Not really decided. I don't really have a planned schedule for when it will end, how many rounds, etc. I may throw together a revised version of this to see if I can get more interest. I want to run these rules and everything, but it just doesn't seem to attract the interest that other series do. I think some advertising in the GT4 board is in order.

I may just scratch most of this and start off with a single budget of like 15,000 credits, run that for a few months, and if there is interest, raise it up to 3 divisions.

And yes, the first week will be stock, no matter what, with an oil change only. After that you can start using your budget. Let me know what you think. Hit me up on AIM sometime and we can try to put something together if you'd like.

Merry Christmas,

Eric

I am still interested, but I haven't really looked for a car to start with (but I do have an idea if you start with just one division at 15k). I used to play 2-3 times a week at a friends house but, much to my surprise and my girlfriends dismay, I got a PS2 and my own copy of the game for Christmas. That should give me a good 8-12 hours a week I can dedicate to things like endurance races, the mission hall, and a Budget Tuning Challenge.

Well, I got a PS2 to replace my broken one. I remember some time ago seeing a GT3 version of a budget series like this. I don't want to tell you how to do this series, but I think fewer classes will work, four at most. Six is too many for me. I have work and school and drill team to worry about all day every day every week. So time is limited for someone like me.

Methinks this will be a promising series once the kinks are all ironed out, so to speak. Try talking to Kolyana for spreadsheets and whatnot to run this thing.

I think I will try this...

I havent read the whole thread so sorry if this has been covered, but will a frame refresh be allowed? what tires must we use? is ASM and TCS allowed?