RVV Motor Works - White Knight - 10/02/10

Toms-Celica-Supra-X28-R.jpg


Parts List
Rigidity Refresher
FC Suspension
FC Transmission
FC LSD
Triple Plate Clutch
Racing Flywheel
Stage 3 NA Tuning
Port Polish
Engine Balancing
Racing Chip
Racing Brakes
Brake Balance Controller
Oil Change
Wing
New Wheels (NOT optional, lol)

Straight Line Performance and other specs:

Top Speed: 164mph

Curb Weight: 1235kg (2717 lbs)

The Setup

SUSPENSION:
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Spring Rate:-------7.0/6.0
Ride Height:-------115/130
Shock Bound:-----4/2
Shock Rebound:--6/3
Camber:-----------2.5/2.0
Toe:----------------0/0
Stabilizers:--------3/6
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Transmission:
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Final to 5.500, auto set to 1, then set ratios and final.
Ratios are [2.500/1.900/1.500/1.200/1.000/0.860]
Final of 3.550.

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LSD/Downforce and others:
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LSD: 7/25/5

Brake Balance: 4/7

Downforce: 22/10

Aids: None at all

Ballast and balance: 0kg ballast, balance at 45 rear.
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Notes: TOM'S (The world-renown Toyota tuner) requested that we do the chassis tuning on their upcoming Celica Supra X28-R. Upon receiving the car, we test drove it. And found that we had a basket case on our hands. Body roll was outright scary, the nose dive under braking was almost enough to scrape the chin spoiler on the ground.... It was awful. So we dropped it down a bit, stiffened it up, did a bit of aero work in our in-house windtunnel, and got it handling nicely. Now it actually feels like a true sports car, not a pile of garbage with a 300hp straight six.

And now, we give you... The TOM'S Celica Supra X28-R.
 
Yeah, hey wha?! New cars!! I think I'd really like to drive the Celica Supra, maybe if I have time the M3 GTR as well.
 
I tested out the RX-8, but I can only say one thing about it right now, because I was using my DS2, and, honestly, didn't notice much difference between tuned and untuned. Anyway:

Why didn't you buy a racing tranny or an oil change?

I went to the test course, and it can't even top out; it just loses steam at 185 mph. I'll critique the handling once I can feel out the subtleties of the car, but in the meantime, here's something to chew on:

I know exactly why you didn't buy the tranny; it costs a lot, and the point of this car is to be cheap. So, I went through the shop, and solved the problem for you. Drop the supercharger, buy the Stage 1 Turbo, buy only the Semi-Racing Exhaust, get the oil changed, and buy the tranny. Viola! For only about $200 more, you've still got 343hp, and now you can make a transmission that actually makes it work to it's best ability. The power and torques curves do get a little peakier, but now, there's a racing transmission which you can use to compensate for that!

I'll review the car later, and then I'll request that you tune the transmission so it actually uses all the power it's got. Or, you can do it now, out of kindness. :sly: I just won't be able to respect a tune that basically throws away a lot of it's power, just for the sake of misguided cost-cutting.

I actually tried to set up the transmission, only to discover that my method of using only mathematics... doesn't really work, since I'm oversimplifying it. Oh well...
 
Hehe.

No, the car's done the way it is because it's meant to be a factory tuning option, not a race bred firebreather.

I'll probably do a Mazdaspeed RX-8 Spec 3 sometime soon with a wing, tranny, and a few other tweaks.

Oh, and N4HS: The Celica is a useless lump, but at least it's now a nice handling useless lump.
 
Here's a review anyway ;) Celica Supra
OK, so it's not the quickest or best looking car out there, it still has its charms and I like it. In default settings the car was misbehaved under brakes, understeering and body rolling, and it understeered a bit more than it should through sweepers while being to quick to wheelspin in low speed corners. With the tuned settings, the car's body roll has been nicely controlled and the brake balance fits for a good turn in and poised position to attack the corner. It's still a little hasty on the wheelspin but any remotely good driver will be able to control this. Where this car really picked up its act is through the sweepers, it now glides through them effortlessly. Really well spotted need for improvement there. Considering this car is only on S2 tyres it behaves and handles pretty good I'd say, good tune on a sluggish car.(yes it's still pretty slow unfortunately)
 
I definitely plan to drive your M3 Vince, and I think you might should visit AT to peek at its competition :sly:

We actually came up with relatively similar suspension and gearing settings.
 
Well then, RJ, I suppose I'll have to finally get around to setting up a cockpit, and actually using my DFP, and seeing what's what with your RX-8! Then, I'll request those tranny settings!

EDIT: OMFG! I just had a peek at your Celica Supra, and, umm, wow. Downforce 22/10 must be exciting at 164 mph!:nervous: I'm not sure what you've done here, but you may start getting complaints from your customers about how dead they are...
 
The Celica was actually really capable at speed when I tested it - plus it couldn't REACH 164 mph with full downforce. RJ asked me to test it while it was still the example from his tuning guide, and I can tell you unequivocally that the car suffered from the addition of extra downforce.
 
<edit> ISP acting up - duplicate double post - apologies.

Since the post is here anyway - your thread name still says "under construction, we will be back"... cars have been released though, I think that means you're back :sly: And judging by the transformation done to the 'yota, as good as ever.
 
EA11R
Well then, RJ, I suppose I'll have to finally get around to setting up a cockpit, and actually using my DFP, and seeing what's what with your RX-8! Then, I'll request those tranny settings!

EDIT: OMFG! I just had a peek at your Celica Supra, and, umm, wow. Downforce 22/10 must be exciting at 164 mph!:nervous: I'm not sure what you've done here, but you may start getting complaints from your customers about how dead they are...
Click to expand...

No, but putting it at something like 22/22 WOULD have people complaining about how dead they are.

Understeer. Bad. For whatever reason, this car can't STAND rear downforce.
 
Rotary Junkie
No, but putting it at something like 22/22 WOULD have people complaining about how dead they are.

Understeer. Bad. For whatever reason, this car can't STAND rear downforce.
Click to expand...

[Logical reasoning] Let's see.. inline 6? check. long wheelbase? check. most of the weight on the front tyres? check. result? UNDERSTEER.[/Logical reasoning]

thus, adding rear downforce indeed does promote understeer.. then again, GT4 promotes understeer in any car that was made after 1985, plus minus some years..
 
Leonidae
M3's are TOO good to drive, and too easy to tune. there's no challenge in them, no passion.
Click to expand...

At full power, I would tend to disagree, particularly in the case of the GTR. The base M3, though - you're certainly right. While working on my CSL I evaluated a basic M3, which handled like a dream with the first random settings I slapped on it. But above that, the cars become very light everywhere but in the engine bay, with (as you pointed out just a few posts up regarding the Celica) lumpen inline-sixes (or a plodding V8 in GTR's case) hanging over their front axles on a long wheelbase. Saloon-like pushy understeer and reluctance at turn-in become an issue. The problem becomes worse when wheelspin is factored in. It can be tuned out, but if it isn't done carefully, owing to the car's naturally stiff chassis, it'll sneak back in when it's least expected and bite the driver in the proverbial backside. Also because of the chassis stiffness, it can be a challenge to get a good general setup that balances handling prowess and reaction to rough track surfaces. All in all, not an awfully hard car to tune, but harder than you want to make it sound, and definitely not soulless.
 
Leonidae
M3's are TOO good to drive, and too easy to tune. there's no challenge in them, no passion.
Click to expand...

For your ultra high standards that is, not for the average GTP member.

Anyway, I'm working on something with more difficulties atm, It's oversteery as hell, as I got to know in the Tuner Challenge 2.0, so keep your heads up!
 
Leonidae
M3's are TOO good to drive, and too easy to tune. there's no challenge in them, no passion.
Click to expand...

I just remembered that when I drove CLS's sport tyre tune it immediately dropped something like 7sec off the GVS lap time because it cured nearly every problem it had. If it was too good then the lap time would have remained similar.;)
 
You don't give brake controller settings for the Abt Audi TT-R.

Does that mean "leave it stock?" (3/3)
 
Hmm... Going to say yes. It was one of my earlier tunes, where I was afraid of touching the BBC. 5/7 may be a good starting point.
 
I already reviewed the Celica Supra, when you make a new car I will probably review it- plus I need to take a break from TV screens for a few days or I will be blind :scared:
 
There may be a Chappy 2D coming up.

Don't know if my customers (Yes, two people have requested it! :eek: And they both tested the Audi ABT to get it out of me!) want it PM'd to them or posted.
 

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