Surviving Turn 1

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Vaxen

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"How do I survive Turn 1 on Lap 1 of an online race?"

This has come up in multiple other threads, but I don't think we've had a discussion dedicated to this issue that seems to come up in each and every online race (especially with a standing start).

This problem isn't unique to online motorsports, as the Indianapolis 500 became rather notorious for lap 1, turn 1 incidents, especially in earlier days, when there were many open wheel, open race rookies present on a given race day.

In his book, "Speed Secrets", Ross Bentley said:
Races are not won in the first corner, however they are often lost there.
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As responsible members of the GTP community, I think we need to come to an understanding of how to best negotiate the start of the race, to improve the experience for all. Feel free to comment on my observations, correct me where I'm mistaken, or to offer further suggestions for how to improve it for everyone.

1. On a public server, there will be times that you are punted off, especially when racing unknown or untrusted drivers.
2. In a crowded field, pinball is quite possible. The guy who hit you may have been punted himself. Don't automatically assume malicious intent.
3. Your goal on turn 1 should not be to get to the front, but rather to convert a double wide start field to a single file running order.
4. Be aware of your surroundings, in front, behind, and to the sides.
5. Look ahead more than one car. Due to field compression, a compact field will run slower through turns than a spread out one.
6. The inside of the corner is safer than the outside.
7. Don't assume the outside is unoccupied (see #4).
8. Leave some extra space, but not too much. The guy behind you won't be expecting sudden braking.
9. If at all possible, go off track rather than into the back of someone.
10. You won't learn these techiniques if you always start out front (attempting to outrace the pack), or never get into the midst of it. Run with maximum PP, and take the start of each race as another learning opportunity, but remember #1: sometimes you'll take a trip through the sand for your trouble. Don't let it upset you -- it's all part of the process.

If everyone in the race is mindful of their surroundings, and is most concerned with getting through the corner safely (rather than in first), then everyone in the race will have a much better experience.
 
Back in the old days of 600PP Suzuka (and also F430 vs GTR), with me driving the GTR it became quite easy to avoid wrecks in Turn 1 IF my grid position was in the right of the track. The problem, if you're not a punter, isn't the cars ahead, but the punters behind. So, the solution was to go as fast as you could (without touching the car ahead) and stick you car allways on the inside of the corner, mantain it there between Turns 1 and 2 and only start going for the ideal line after Turn 2.

When I was placed in a grid spot on the left, and saw unknown players behind me, I usually made a very slow start sticking to the left of the track, let them all go ahead with their punting (it was nearly comic to see) and only then start racing. These guys usually made a mess of themselves in Turns 1 and 2, in all the esses and at Degner 2. So, you could very well enter Turn 1 last (16th) and still be 6th at the hairpin with only lucky GTPers ahead of you :lol:
 
Both of those approaches can work, Hun, and can be useful survival tools in a mixed pool with untrusted drivers.

However, in a field of most/all trusted drivers, the approach fails miserably. Only one can be first, and only one can be last. If everyone is in a rush to be first, catastrophe lurks, and it's no better than an open race. As we've been seeing, sometimes we make a mess of it, even in races largely composed of GTP'ers.

I think that many players are doing themselves a disservice by trying to avoid the melee entirely. There's a lot of learning to be had there in the middle. Learning which will serve all of us very well once we get private lobbies.
 
I see your point. Of course what I wrote was a "surviving punters" technique, not to be used in a race with GTPers only.

The fact is, however, in the few lucky races I had (at Suzuka, I don't go to Fuji often and in HSR this is not a problem) with friends-only, I never had any trouble with turn 1. First because I drove the GTR for a long, long time, and became quite familiar with what the car was capable of. mr geez, of all people, can testify how amazingly close we both were able to drive for entire laps (nearly entire races), without a single touch. Mind you, I'm not saying I was fast, I'm only saying I was safe.

But I guess 750 PP cars are a handful at Suzuka, even for very experienced and fast drivers (something I'm not, I did more mistakes these two last nights at Suzuka than in 6 weeks of 600PP racing) :indiff:
 
I'll definitely agree that things are far better in a field of all GTP'ers, but I've also seen tempers fly when incidents happen. In most cases, I think these are caused by poor decisions borne of inexperience than malice, but the hot tempers fly regardless.
 
This is a great thread, it will help loads of people, especially less experienced guys like myself. I no longer have any excuse for just closing my eyes, clenching my arse and hoping for the best.
 
LIFE AND LET LIFE

first corner second corner actualy the whole race.

we've gotta wait for the private rooms. so we gtp-ers can avoid the punters. in the mean while we've gotta life with it. i think luck is the mean thing, coming through the first corner. i've got the most benefit when i go to the inside of the corner and entering it a bit slower the possible. break a bit earlier, let the car rol for a second and then antisepate the situatie.
 
Hun200kmh
mr geez, of all people, can testify how amazingly close we both were able to drive for entire laps (nearly entire races), without a single touch. Mind you, I'm not saying I was fast, I'm only saying I was safe.
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Your Honour,I can testify that first part of quoted message is the truth and only truth,but the second part about DEFENDANT being NOT FAST, is and always will be,prevarication to say the least..

;)
 
Vaxen
3. Your goal on turn 1 should not be to get to the front, but rather to convert a double wide start field to a single file running order.
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That is the most important thing to keep in mind when entering turn 1. You want to survive it, not necessarily get ahead of everyone in it.
I will always recommend slowing to allow the rest of the grid through on turn 1, at least while we have public races, because its a more reliable tactic than speeding ahead and hoping that everyone else gives you room. Of course, it can lead to you being a little bit behind, but as long as you don't slow down too much, you can still stay in the battle for first.

The only time this changes is if you happen to have a front row grid position and you get off the line well. (though usually if you have front row, you have a lower PP or slower car and probably won't have a great lead anyway). In this case, I just enter the corner normally (keeping in mind other drivers) as this is what the other drivers will expect.
 
The topic of this thread is exactly why I tune two points below max for online racing. Not because I want some advantage over everybody else but just to be in front of the turn 1 carnage. I really don't see any lesson to be learned by jumping into the meat grinder again and again. Once we get private rooms I'll be happy to start in the middle or back.
 
I don't know what the others do... and I've pretty much given up the online racing because of the constant a..holes. But I usually just hug the top of the corner since I know everyone else is diving for the inside. Also, if someone decides to just dive through, you don't have far to go before you hit the wall so you're most likely to continue in the right direction. It seemed when I shot to the inside of the turn, if I got it, I was going for a ride. I tried this method and it worked, but it's no good for lap times...
 
If there is a standing start I'm always happy if I start at the back, cause I can't get punted.
If I do start in the middle of the pack, I just take it easy for the first half of the first lap, hoping I don't get punted off and then start racing when things get settled.

I won't lower my PP to start at the front though. I used to do it, but I got bored of leading from start to finish or only being overtaken by faster drivers. It's more fun to have to overtake people (and watch the punter chaos at T1). :)
 
Well I just hope I get through the first corner safely, because there's always going to be that one lunatic person who want's to take everybody out in the first corner :ouch: (But this won't happen when private rooms are available) :)
 
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s2k2k3
The topic of this thread is exactly why I tune two points below max for online racing. Not because I want some advantage over everybody else but just to be in front of the turn 1 carnage. I really don't see any lesson to be learned by jumping into the meat grinder again and again. Once we get private rooms I'll be happy to start in the middle or back.
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I used to do the same thing. I'd even prefer the GTR, detuned a couple points, so that between the awesome launch and starting at or near the front, I'd normally not only be in front, but be in front by enough that any aspiring punters couldn't even reach me. Sure I won a lot of races, but to be honest, it wasn't very challenging... mostly it was a matter of running clean and fast (TT type) laps, and my main opponent was the RBE rather than the field (except when contending with some truly fast folks who would emerge and then overhaul me by the end).

At that time, I hated being in the middle of the pack. It all felt so random. Half the time I'd get punted off, sometimes I'd get punted into someone. Sometimes I'd run into the back of someone who inexplicably stopped (probably because they punted someone).

However, after setting my PP to max, and sticking with it, I found I did get better over time. It turns out that running in heavy traffic is like any other skill in the game: it takes practice to master, to learn exactly how much space you need to leave to be able to deal with unexpected situations.

My concern is this: We'll get private rooms, and T1 will still be a mosh pit, not because people aren't trying to race cleanly, but rather they just don't have enough experience to do it well.

So take the time now, when each public race doesn't matter a whit, to learn this important skill.
 
My golden rule is this - stay behind the guy in front.

It's not like a normal overtake situation where you want to be as close to him as possible, at the start of a race there's so much concertina going on that he's as likely to jam on the anchors all of a sudden as anything else. I basically keep a (split second) longer than usual braking gap and my cues to slow down come from the car in front, not where I think my ideal braking point is.

Sure, you can get a good run down the inside from the start and pass a few guys going in (especially in the 06) but once you're on the corner you aint going to overtake the car in front unless he screws up bigtime. There's just no room.

So that's as much as I can come up with - watch the guy in front. And pray to whatever you believe in that the guy behind you is doing the same
 
Vaxen
I think that many players are doing themselves a disservice by trying to avoid the melee entirely. There's a lot of learning to be had there in the middle. Learning which will serve all of us very well once we get private lobbies.
Click to expand...

I've been reluctant to practice bieng in the middle when in GTP events because I worry about cannonballing the pack however in the non GTP timeslots I usually get the bad luck of being in a race with only 4-8 others or getting tossed up in a punt frenzy like 200 yrds before the entry into 1/2. Seriously, I wish some of these non-OLR ethics following people would go back to their Madden09 or SoulCalibur. Nevertheless I will definately practice being in the pack more often from now on. :grumpy:

EDIT: Also when private rooms do become available do you think that GTP will adopt the "Form a Line Before Turn 1" etiquitte that is found in most all real-life races?
 
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I found that 2 ways give me the most chance of getting through T1 at Suzuka in the beginning.
1. Outacccelerate the grid and hope to get a good distance away from the grid to go through T1 unharmed ( mostly inside ).
2. back off and let the others make the mistake(s) and ghosting out so you can pass them ( most on inside ) and end up in the top 5 grid after T1.

Now i'm trying out a combination of both so that at the start of T1 I'm on the inside.
Hope that this works for me this way.

Bryan
 
P3nT4gR4m
My golden rule is this - stay behind the guy in front.

It's not like a normal overtake situation where you want to be as close to him as possible, at the start of a race there's so much concertina going on that he's as likely to jam on the anchors all of a sudden as anything else. I basically keep a (split second) longer than usual braking gap and my cues to slow down come from the car in front, not where I think my ideal braking point is.

Sure, you can get a good run down the inside from the start and pass a few guys going in (especially in the 06) but once you're on the corner you aint going to overtake the car in front unless he screws up bigtime. There's just no room.

So that's as much as I can come up with - watch the guy in front. And pray to whatever you believe in that the guy behind you is doing the same
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My philosophy exactly. 👍
 
My car seems to be a magnet for the ole punters, so i have tried many different ways to survive the carnage.
1. If racing with other recognized GTP members, i think P3nt, touched on it, take a line stick to it, observing the main three points of view, front, nearside, offside, hopefully GTP member behind will be observing you in front of them, stick to your line till exiting turn one,s still observing front, nearside and offside.
2. If racing not recognised drivers, hugging the inside can lead to a clear run with the occasional punt, sticking to the outside again clear run but not as succesfull as inside. What i find more successfull, start race as normal, some distance from corner one back of the throttle, allowing near enough all cars past, as you enter turn one not far behind the car in front begin to approach your normal running pace, any cars in front who are having a hard time will and should be off track by now, same as punted persons should also be off track, i tend to find that approaching the first turn this way can lead to position 5 or better by the exit of turn one, thats why i tend to take it easy before turn one.

sorry for any bad english, just got in from night out and tanked up big time
 
I usually survive the first corner pretty well, off the line I always go for the inside of the corner (if I can without hitting anyone) and hug it so close it's like I am walking a window sill of a sky scraper.

Most rough drivers by then have shot wide and miss me.
 
My strategy, which worked really well in the early days of 600PP online, was go into Turn 1 in last position in my (slow-off-the-line) Clio, watch the various cars ahead bump each other off the track :lol: & drive through the remaining ghosts. Usually I would go into the esses in 3rd or 4th place & then work on pulling in the cars in front. As others have commented: it's more fun to overtake than to be overtaken.

Against faster drivers this was less effective because once someone like Angelx was significantly ahead in his R8, there was no chance of catching him. :boggled:

Now my strategy is simple: keep a decent distance from the car in front so you have some maneuvering room, & hug the inside corner so that you don't get bumped off the track. Works most of the time... :indiff:
 
I used to hate the first couple of corners, and used to panic, which just caused me problems.

Knowadays I just attack it. Obviously avoiding touching cars in front. I have found this strategy works for me. 9 times out of 10 I come out unscathed. But there is always some tool that wants to punt you from behind.

Lastly I always try for the inside line as that greatly reduces your chances of ending up in the Kitty Litter.
 
I also have a tip to make the first corner easier to survive.

When you have cars right in front of you going into the first corner, you need to brake earlier than them to avoid a collision. That is already common knowledge for most people. However, using your maximum stopping power is NOT the proper thing to do at that moment. Brake gently first and increase the input from there on.

I've seen too many times that people (also GTP'ers) just slam the brakes and create a punting party. If you brake gently first, the driver behind you notices that and will have a chance to react.
An additional advantage using this technique is that you can close the gap to the driver under braking. If you pull out the anchors, it's more a question of luck when you close the gap. In most of the cases you'll stay a few carlenghts behind.
 
Hugo Boss
IIf you brake gently first, the driver behind you notices that and will have a chance to react.
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You must be racing against better quality drivers than I do. If I brake early I usually get pounded by the guy behind who doesn't see or care about my brake lights.

I have been running some races at full pp (because of this thread) to see what technique works best for me to make it through the killing fields of turn one. I find that I have better luck going to the inside and braking as late as possible while still staying on the inside all the way through the corner is my best chance to make it through.
 
i cant see why pd dont do like system 3 and ferrari challenge (a terrible game in many ways but really good in others) it is way harder to punt someone of the track in FC, just a small touch in gt5p can get you flying, but in FC you can be rammed way harder and still stay on the track, wich seems much more real to me (just watch real life races where rubbing paint happens all the time) and therefore getting thru turn one shouldent be the lottery its today in gt5p
 
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I think that will get better once they impement damage. Right now the cars I think react correctly if you consider theres nothing there to absorb any impact. Its basically like billiards when the cars hit.
 
Interesting thread Vaxen.

Hugo i get whereyour coming from totally but iv had it many times where the guy infront just stops dead and all hell breaks loose. So if everyone did what your are surgesting we will all be fine.

Race craft takes a long time to build on and even after getting good at it you still learn new things all the time. For me the main one is learnign when to brake and secondly the draft. Is there one car infront or two or even three. this makes a huge difference to your top speed and thus braking points.

Anyway back to the point, i use to back off and go into turn one last every race because a could make sure i made it round in one peace but it has been better since more GTP tags have been around.
 
I'd like to stress a point that logically follows from what the insightful people here have already said but in my opinion deserves being stated clearly:

Do not change lanes in Turn 1!
(unless you are absolutely positively definitely and without the palest shadow of a doubt 110% sure that there's no other car on the other lane.)

So, if you enter Turn 1 on the outside, stay on the outside all the way through the corner. If you hug the inside kerb, keep on hugging it. If you're entering the corner somewhere inbetween, that means you're on the outside, because someone behind you will try to squeeze inside. Do not follow the ideal line, do not allow your car to run wide. Even if this means being passed: the sole objective is to emerge unscathed. If you're faster than the guy that passes you, you'll certainly be able to retake the position very soon.

In addition, I think that Hugo's point remains valid even if it means you'll get pushed from behind. Braking early and gently is the right thing to do no matter what. If there's a punter behind you, you'll get pushed anyway, and if you brake a little earlier, at least you reduce the chance of taking the guy in front with you.
 
well, those few times I've had a chance to try the online races, I used following tactic.. I simply didn't go WOT. I let the others run ahead, cause a major pileup and wreackge in first corner, weave through and go after the current leaders that hadn't wrecked. this way I nearly did beat Ferrari 599's on Fuji.. but on the straights, my poor little GT-R was blown off the water.
 
I just hang back and let everyone take each other out at turn 1, especially at Suzuka. This strategy seems to work well for me.
 

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