Now swag suggestions!

My wife gave me the go ahead to begin the process of looking for a DSLR for my birthday (her starting price allowance was $500, which I laughed at). I had it narrowed down to the Canon T1i/500D and the Nikon D5000. In doing a bit more research, the T1i quickly rose to the top with the significantly sharper image quality (and the $750 price tag was hardly balked at despite the initial $500 limit). I was all ready for a hands on test drive to be very likely, and very quickly, followed with a purchase.

Then the bombshell dropped. She asked if I could get a better camera for $1000. I obviously said yes, but I wasn't looking at any that expensive so I wasn't sure what was available.

That's where I need your help. I can figure out what cameras fit into that new price point easily enough and read reviews on said items until I pass out. What I'd like some input on is whether I'd be better of taking advantage of the extra cash in the form of an upgraded body (T2i/550D?) or apply the $250 towards filters, remote, another SD card, etc.

All thoughts welcomed, except for any regarding going for a 1D Mark IV instead.

is the $1000 just body budget, or does that include the lens? If not, get a good lens and then work backwards and find a camera that you can buy with the remaining funds.

Omnis

is the $1000 just body budget, or does that include the lens?

Click to expand...

The whole package for $1000. That's not to say that the next time presents are headed my way that a new lens won't find it's way onto the list, of course. The grand just needs to cover a good, solid base until then.

In that case, get a T1i with a Canon Pixma PRO9000MkII and $400 rebate. If you don't want the printer, you can sell it. Or you could be nice and sell it to me for post-rebate price. $500 printer for 70 bucks sounds good to me.

I'd go for the higher spec body of the 550D/T2i as you're going to spend years buying new lenses but will likely keep the one body for a good while. The 550D is better than the 50D in many ways and is very similar to the 7D with full HD 30fps video.

DPReview is a very good website and they've just posted an in depth review of the 550D here (http://www.dpreview.com/news/1004/10040102canon550dreview.asp)

It's a difficult choice as it's such a big investment but it's a good idea to get the best base (body) you can afford to begin with and worry about lenses and kit later when you know understand more what you want.

My current Canon Powershot was a present from my wife so I think I'll need wait a while before I get the OK to splash the cash on a DSLR (or micro four thirds) so I'm jealous whatever you go for

Or you can get that printer deal and actually enjoy your pictures away from the screen. Otherwise, the T2 just gives you a few extra MP, a better metering system, and, well, I'll just list what I found:

* Higher resolution 18MP CMOS with gapless micro lenses
* ISO 6400 no longer in 'expanded' range (12,800 max remains the same)
* Redesigned buttons and new movie/live view button
* Customizable auto ISO ranges
* Improved 63 zone metering (iFCL)
* 3:2 format screen with more pixels
* Improved movie functionality
* Slightly higher burst shooting rate (though buffer holds fewer shots)
* HDMI control (CEC)
* SDHX Compatible

I read every review out in the past year, preparing my camera-bag mentally until the day I can start working and saving up... So when it comes to combinations-available-for-the-money, I can spit that out in my sleep.

Frankly, iFCL metering is quite a big bonus. Not just metering, but also white balance is greatly improved. Finally up to snuff with Nikon's well-known 3D Colour Matrix Meter system.

The 500D was a baby 50D with crippled video (20fps? lolwut?) while the 550D is a baby 7D. For $150 more, you get so much more camera: Improved noise, better usability (improved metering, AutoISO, etc), and is compatible with the next SD card standard. In a month I'll be able to give it a thorough review myself, as my sister just ordered one to shoot her next productions with using prize-money from awards on previous works.

This is the 550D page at Adorama, with the kits they offer: $960 will buy you a kit which'll cover everything you need for an SLR: Bag, card, reader, the works. Throw in a cheap UV filter or lens-hood for protection if you're picky (I'd go for a hood as it visibly improves image-quality, and provides protection - Canon's are expensive, eBay ripoffs cost next to nothing and are similar to brand-made ones), and you're good to go for $1000. The $980 kit also gives you a spare LP-E8 battery.

Same options apply to the 500D though, at ~$150 less for each kit.

If you then have $100 to spare, get a Canon 50mm f/1.8 II: It's cheap (the cheapest), very sharp stopped down, and offers a great introduction into the joys of fast prime lenses. It's a portrait-length tele on EF-S crop-bodies, so it's not the most usable, but since portraits are what most of us shoot on social events.. it's also the best bang for the buck in Canonland. 50mm primes are a great second lens - most of my friends have one by now, since I started carrying mine on a film EOS and loaning them. A friend is just out on a trip with mine and texted me that she wants one as well - go figure.


And I still wouldn't count Nikon out, since at prices such as these and these for their refurbs, you could get the Nikon 35mm f/1.8 AF-S (non-AFS lenses don't autofocus on four-digit Nikons, so the cheap 50mm f/1.8 AF-D equivalent to Canon's doesn't autofocus), and a proper tilting flash (yeah, it's basic, but it tilts). Or a cheap stabilized tele-zoom instead (Canon has a 55-250mm for $100 more).


Conclusion? I'd go for the 550D+18-55IS kit because it's pretty much everything I could ask from a crop-sensor budget camera as well as a basic lens to start with which isn't that bad, optically (it's a piece of fragile plastic, though). Take the kit with all the options, since you'll have to buy them anyway at some point.

I still shoot film, and all 6 cameras have a 50mm lens. Partly because I like the perspective, partly because it's the cheapest, and thus found everywhere. Tessars and their Industar-50 copies, and various double-Gauss designs like the Helios-44 and Canon EF 50mm f/1.8...

Metar knows his stuff!!!

It is good having a printer, especially a decent one. I kind of regret not getting a better one as my Canon MP600 doesn't really give the results I want.

Another option is to get a second hand older but higher model from ebay but that wouldn't have the new features such as video.

BTW the cheapest 550D with 18-55 kit lens in the UK is £650 (including £50 cashback) which works out about $100 more than the US

What I'd love to know is what led you to the conclusion that the 500D produces significantly sharper images than the D5000.

Like I said, I have a T1i/500D and I love it. I started with a 1000D and it was good but it wasn't what I was looking for as far as a body went, so I traded it in and got a 500D which is pretty much exactly what I need. The 18-55 kit lens is a bit "meh" but it'll do when you start off.

I can't see the T2i doing that much more to justify the price, especially since you should be able to get a better deal on the T1i since a new model is coming out. I mean ya the T2i will be a better camera but I'm sure the T1i will do everything you'll ever want and then some.

And I do not like Nikon cameras at all, it's just a personal preference thing though since I've shot Canon's pretty much since I got into photography and ever then my old 35mm film cameras were Canon's too.

Holy crap that's a lot of info to muddle through!

Here goes:

Omnis

In that case, get a T1i with a Canon Pixma PRO9000MkII and $400 rebate. If you don't want the printer, you can sell it. Or you could be nice and sell it to me for post-rebate price. $500 printer for 70 bucks sounds good to me.

Click to expand...

I did see that rebate on newegg and was tempted. If, however, I decide on the T2i, no deal.

evilneal

DPReview is a very good website and they've just posted an in depth review of the 550D here (http://www.dpreview.com/news/1004/10040102canon550dreview.asp)

Click to expand...

If DPReview had a user bandwidth limit, I would have been blocked by now. I've been pretty much living on that site for the last few days. I read the review on the T2i last night but just became more confused with all the numbers, options, specs, etc. floating around in my head.

evilneal

It's a difficult choice as it's such a big investment but it's a good idea to get the best base (body) you can afford to begin with and worry about lenses and kit later when you know understand more what you want.

Click to expand...

That's initially the direction I was leaning, but wanted my fellow GTPers input, too.

evilneal

My current Canon Powershot was a present from my wife so I think I'll need wait a while before I get the OK to splash the cash on a DSLR (or micro four thirds) so I'm jealous whatever you go for

Click to expand...

Thanks, and good luck! 👍

Metar

This is the 550D page at Adorama, with the kits they offer: $960 will buy you a kit which'll cover everything you need for an SLR: Bag, card, reader, the works. Throw in a cheap UV filter or lens-hood for protection if you're picky (I'd go for a hood as it visibly improves image-quality, and provides protection - Canon's are expensive, eBay ripoffs cost next to nothing and are similar to brand-made ones), and you're good to go for $1000. The $980 kit also gives you a spare LP-E8 battery.

Click to expand...

After initially deciding on the T1i, my obvious next step was looking for the best price which at one point or another lead me to Adorama. For the price, the packages look to be a pretty decent deal and short of a better price on the camera elsewhere (or finding it in town and having it in my hands to play with over the weekend ), I'll likely be going that route, or at least something similar.

Metar

If you then have $100 to spare, get a Canon 50mm f/1.8 II

Click to expand...

That lens is already on my (for now) short list of wants.

Metar

And I still wouldn't count Nikon out, since at prices such as these and these for their refurbs

Click to expand...

If we're throwing down refurbs as an option, the T1i refurb clocks in at $150 off new, too. My big hangup on a refurb is that it's already been broken once... but based on the positive reviews on the refurb, it looks like that is fairly unfounded.

Metar

Conclusion? I'd go for the 550D+18-55IS kit

Click to expand...

Thanks for all the input, Metar. I'll still have to mull it all over and let it sink in. 👍

the Interceptor

What I'd love to know is what led you to the conclusion that the 500D produces significantly sharper images than the D5000.

Click to expand...

Oddly enough, paper clips.

Joey D

I can't see the T2i doing that much more to justify the price, especially since you should be able to get a better deal on the T1i since a new model is coming out. I mean ya the T2i will be a better camera but I'm sure the T1i will do everything you'll ever want and then some.

Click to expand...

Part of me completely agrees with you that I won't likely use the features that the T2i has over the T1i, but the other part of me will be kicking the first part if I ever do need them and didn't throw down for it. Ultimately though, I think I'm still leaning towards the T1i and putting the price difference into swag. There's always a better body and this gives me something to upgrade from in the future.

Edit: Time from beginning this post to hitting Submit Reply - 3.5 hours. Work getting in the way strikes again...

TB

Oddly enough, paper clips.

Click to expand...

Yup, I saw the review, too. I however would put that difference on the lenses rather than the cameras. Unfortunately these bodies can not be used with the same lenses, which limits the validity of such direct comparisons to an extent.

the Interceptor

Yup, I saw the review, too. I however would put that difference on the lenses rather than the cameras.

Click to expand...

I considered that, too but the clarity difference is hard to ignore. Also, one would think that DPReview would use as comparable a lens as they could across all brands to level the field.

At this level, metering is everything, so go for the best metering system you can afford. In my view, most sharpness issues are down to user technique, whereas the meter will see you though tough lighting conditions. Don't get carried away with megapixels. The 550D has more metering points and does spot metering down to 4% of the frame, whereas the 1000D only does full frame and center-weighted.

In short, buy the 550D equivalent, not the 1000D equivalent.

Also, the printer argument should be had separately, and not be allowed to impinge on the camera budget.

TB

I considered that, too but the clarity difference is hard to ignore. Also, one would think that DPReview would use as comparable a lens as they could across all brands to level the field.

Click to expand...

They did, but there's only so much you can do in photographic comparisons. Producing usable results in this department is extremely difficult, and they have to be very careful that the conclusions they draw are actually based on what they were testing and not produced by something they didn't think about.

In this case, they used the comparable 50mm f/1.4 prime lenses from Canon and Nikon. But what if they caught a bad example in one case? And given that they tested various samples and used the best one, what if this generation of the respective lens simply isn't good? Sometimes lenses are good or bad even within one generation, depending on the batch they came out of. Then, each lens has its individual qualities. Some produce the best result at f/4.0, some at f/8.0. But that changes depth of field, chromatic abberation and whatnot. So how can they make usable comparison shots with that?

In the end, there are a lot of variables, maybe too many to ever produce bulletproof results. Forget sharpness, every camera body will produce sharp images with the right lenses and proper post processing. Focus on features you'd like to have. Go to a shop and take a few comparable models in your hand and see how they handle. Browse the buttons and the menus. Think about what you plan to shoot and whether everyhing you need for that (lenses, flashes, etc.) is available for the model you're aiming for. That's the best thing you can do.

GilesGuthrie

In short, buy the 550D equivalent, not the 1000D equivalent.

Click to expand...

The 1000D (aka XS) was never a consideration, but your argument still stands - the 500D is 35-zone while the 550D is 63-zone.
_____

Point taken, Interceptor. 👍

I am planning going out for a hands-on this weekend, so the more input I can get from you guys to consider over the next day or so, the better.

TB

Point taken, Interceptor. 👍

I am planning going out for a hands-on this weekend, so the more input I can get from you guys to consider over the next day or so, the better.

Click to expand...

My hint would be to try a Nikon D90. You should at least have tried one for a couple of minutes before you turn to Canon.

Actually... If you're leaning towards a 500D, how far is it from an XSi/450D? The video on the 500D isn't worth that much anyway and you haven't mentioned it as much of a priority, either. It's essentially the same body between the last three Rebel generations, so the same controls, viewfinder, etc.. Lower-resolution screen is the only real downside I see (still the large 3-incher), and the DigicIII interface is slightly more clumsy. These come in anywhere between $430 for a refurb to $620 for a kit with lens and accessories...

the Interceptor

Yup, I saw the review, too. I however would put that difference on the lenses rather than the cameras. Unfortunately these bodies can not be used with the same lenses, which limits the validity of such direct comparisons to an extent.

Click to expand...

They can via adapters. Nikon lenses on Canon bodies, that is. There are also third-party manufacturers with lenses for both mounts, and even adaptable lenses that will fit both mounts with the very same lens.

the Interceptor

In this case, they used the comparable 50mm f/1.4 prime lenses from Canon and Nikon. But what if they caught a bad example in one case? And given that they tested various samples and used the best one, what if this generation of the respective lens simply isn't good? Sometimes lenses are good or bad even within one generation, depending on the batch they came out of. Then, each lens has its individual qualities. Some produce the best result at f/4.0, some at f/8.0. But that changes depth of field, chromatic abberation and whatnot. So how can they make usable comparison shots with that?

Click to expand...

50mm f/1.4 are based on the same double-Gauss 7-element-6-groups design for the past 50 years or so, the only exceptions being Nikon's AF-S 50mm G - the one used in this comparison - which has a minor element in the rear to battle focus-shift, and the Sigma 50mm f/1.4, which is a truly new design. If anything, the lens advantage should be Nikon's by a small margin. Classic 50mm f/1.4s all produce spherical aberration by the truckload wide open, but are very sharp by f/2.8. Shooting at f/4 both should be absolutely equal, as by then even minor decentering and manufacturing defects are compensated for by the depth of field (unless the lens is truly defective, in which case it should be obvious) - and shooting at f/8, the advantage should be Nikon's again, as the larger pixel-pitch means diffraction sets in earlier. Reports indicate that at 18MP on an APS-C as on the T2i, diffraction starts to become visible as early as f/6.8 and f/7.6 on the T2i

The differences in the pictures aren't lens-related. It's the camera: Even then, of course, the variables are many, but it's the camera. Whether it's a stronger low-pass filter on the sensor, an inferior demosaicing algorithm, too much compression or too little sharpening - Nikon's output in this particular case is softer without a doubt. Default to default, with the most consistent and similar lens in a manufacturer's lineup.

the Interceptor

In the end, there are a lot of variables, maybe too many to ever produce bulletproof results. Forget sharpness, every camera body will produce sharp images with the right lenses and proper post processing. Focus on features you'd like to have. Go to a shop and take a few comparable models in your hand and see how they handle. Browse the buttons and the menus. Think about what you plan to shoot and whether everyhing you need for that (lenses, flashes, etc.) is available for the model you're aiming for. That's the best thing you can do.

My hint would be to try a Nikon D90. You should at least have tried one for a couple of minutes before you turn to Canon.

Click to expand...

I second the ergonomics part especially - most important thing you can test is how it feels. 👍

The D90's only advantage is ergonomics (seeing as the D5000 has the same innards), but that is one big advantage... Proper-sized body and a real pentaprism. I loved every second I used it's predecessor, the D80.

However, it's out of the price-range: Body-only is $850, which with the basic 18-55 runs at $1000 - and with the kit 18-105mm, runs for $1150.

Metar

The differences in the pictures aren't lens-related. It's the camera: Even then, of course, the variables are many, but it's the camera. Whether it's a stronger low-pass filter on the sensor, an inferior demosaicing algorithm, too much compression or too little sharpening - Nikon's output in this particular case is softer without a doubt. Default to default, with the most consistent and similar lens in a manufacturer's lineup.

Click to expand...

You're correct, I was at fault: it is the cameras. There are two things I noticed when comparing the JPEG comparison to the RAW comparison: the JPEG engine of the Canon is better than the Nikon's, therefore the Canon picture is sharper. And the Canon uses its higher resolution for a tad more detail. Both things become obvious when you look at the RAW shots. So the Nikon can produce pictures as sharp as the Canon respective to the individual sensor resolution, it's just that it is not able to put it into the JPEG also. Since spending so much money on a DSLR should incorporate shooting RAW however, this should not be something which keeps TB from considering the Nikon equivalent.

I took the plunge, guys. After mulling it around for the last few days and talking with my wife, I opted for the T1i because the chance for me to buy things like this don't come along often. For some of you, that would be reason enough to get the T2i, but my reasoning is the T1i still gives me $250 for a second lens (presumably in the 55-200mm range). Going for the T2i at present would have pushed back the second lens back until likely Christmas at the earliest and with my kids in soccer and baseball this summer, I'd like the length the lens will give me.

Thanks for all the input, guys. It was very helpful!

So you got that printer, right?

Almost a year later, it's time for more swag. In particular a flash.

Keep in mind that pretty much the only thing I'm going to be shooting is my kids and base all suggestions on that, perty please.

I realize that I should be looking at the 430EX II and stopping there, but I don't really feel like throwing down $284. That said, any thoughts on a Bower SFD728C? Any others at a similar price point I should look at instead?

I am a complete flash noob but I know I want need bounce and swivel. Anything more than that and I'm not sure exactly what to look for. Sure, I'd also like an off camera slave unit but I'm guessing that's not likely to happen at a lower price point.

And while I have your attention, thoughts on this wired shutter release and this wireless remote versus their more expensive counterparts?

Preemptive thanks!

It's easy to turn an on camera into an off camera flash so I wouldn't worry about that. As for the actual flash I have no idea really, I only deal with huge Bowens kits. The Bower flash sounds rather cheap and having no manual control over the unit itself will get really annoying, your camera only has very limited control over a flash. With the Canon one you can dial in extra settings on the flash which makes a huge difference in terms of picture quality, personally I'd get saving.