Ferrari before the World Motorsports Council

prisonermonkeys

prisonermonkeys

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To stop the discussions from overtaking the thread on the Italian Grand Prix, I've created this thread. After the controversy over race-fixing and team orders at Hockenheim, Ferrari have been called before the World Motorsports Council to answer charges of bringing the sport into disrepute.

Discuss.
 
I can't see Ferrari getting any massive punishment, probably just a larger fine because 100 thousand is nothing to them.
 
It's just too hard to tell. They may get off with a slap on the wrist... they may get a disqualification.

While Ferrari is important to the F1 circus, they aren't getting the same kid glove treatment they're used to. And this hearing is particularly important... since Ferrari is the team that provoked the FIA to create the rule, their flaunting of it is an acid test of whether the rule is sufficient (and needed) and enforceable.
 
I heard that they are expected to at least get a disqualification and/or a race suspension. Here's hoping!
 
So when is the hearing going to happen?
 
Coincidental that the hearing takes place on the same week as the Monza GP :odd: There might be a bunch of angry Tifiosi @ Monza if things happen to go south for Ferrari at the hearing :lol:
 
timeattack07gt
Coincidental that the hearing takes place on the same week as the Monza GP :odd: There might be a bunch of angry Tifiosi @ Monza if things happen to go south for Ferrari at the hearing :lol:
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Well, the tifiosi will just have to be angry at Ferrari, because they won't have anyone else to blame. You can't say "We find the defendant guilty of murder, but recommend that we let him off the hook because it's his birthday", just as you can't say "We find Ferrari guilty of using team orders, but there will be no punishment because someone will be upset by it".
 
timeattack07gt
Coincidental that the hearing takes place on the same week as the Monza GP :odd: There might be a bunch of angry Tifiosi @ Monza if things happen to go south for Ferrari at the hearing :lol:
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Hit them when it hurts most ;). The tifosi historically aren't idiots, I doubt they will be angry at anyone but Ferrari for the disgrace. Its kind of difficult for them to really claim the FIA are conspiring against Ferrari anyway, what with "Ferrari International Assistance" and Jean Todt being President.
 
Actually... the "Ferrari Assistance" monicker is seeming more and more a thing of the past... a few rulings in previous races didn't go the way they liked, and they've been moaning about things for quite a while now...

I can just imagine it now... "Alonso... I hate to bother you in the middle of the race... but you've been stripped of your points."

*$#!!!!*
 
^

Alonso : I don't want to hear anything on the Radio for the rest of the Race.

C.
 
yeti
^

Alonso : I don't want to hear anything on the Radio for the rest of the Race.

C.
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That would be the best race, ever. I'd literally jump out of my chair and clap my hands until they bleed. :lol:

I like the guy, he's a fantastic driver and all....but he really needs to stop opening his mouth sometimes - only person I feel for in this is Massa. He'll get penalized for something Ferrari "made" him do.
 
Disgraceful just disgraceful that is all I have to say. No punishment for deliberatly flaunting a rule.
 
I'm not sure a big punishment (point penalty/race bans etc.) would have served much of a purpose, but I did think they would either lose their constructor's title points, or be stripped of the points they earned at that race. It probably spells the end of the team orders rule, however - as Ferrari have, IMO, made a total mockery of the rule and this decision means that teams no longer have any major reason to abide by it. I fear that the FIA may have set a bad precedent here, even if it means that this year's title is still a 5 way race.
 
So, basically this was just a waste of everyone's time?

Why even have a hearing if there's nothing new to be heard?
 
Other teams have done similar things so I am not surprised. Maybe they should disguise it better next time :dopey:
 
This is ridiculous. How do they get away with everything?
 
What a surprise...👎
 
I am sure if it was another team, the end result/decision would have been the same!

Too much money involved.....

And the costs of a possible Monza 'riot' would be too high!
 
I wish I could say I agree with you, but I don't. I believe this decision is more about preserving Ferrari's shot at this year's world championship than about preserving the integrity of the rules.
 
Personally I felt they got what they deserved. The rule is stupid to begin with being that it is often unenforceable (ie. when Raikonen was gifted the Championship @ Brazil by Massa), so to come down harshly on Ferrari to set an example for this particular situation just wouldn't make much sense (being that they didn't have proper evidence to convict them), nor prevent any team orders from playing out in the future.

IMO, any further penalty (taking away points) would be overly harsh considering that there is no penalty in place for such a violation to begin with, and at the end of the day they just broke a rule in a team sport (something a lot of folks don't want to accept), which didn't really have much of an affect on the other teams results that day. Now IMO, you don't go throwing people in jail for 25 years simply because they stole a candy bar from a store, yet there is no penalty written down in your legal system, only a clause saying that it is a violation :rolleyes:
 
Just when Formula 1 was starting to look credible......face meet palm, very disappointing.
 
Formula 1 will never look that credible unless the FIA get their act together.

Last race alone we saw two violations (which I counted) that went unnoticed on race day :rolleyes:
 
Meh, I don't think they should have gotten the win revoked. You all seem to want Ferrari to get in trouble, for your own satisfaction, so that Red Bull would win. Ferrari won the race, and whether team orders was used in the race or not, they would have won the race. It's not like they cheated to get a win, like what Renault did in 2008.
 
Peter
Meh, I don't think they should have gotten the win revoked. You all seem to want Ferrari to get in trouble, for your own satisfaction, so that Red Bull would win. Ferrari won the race, and whether team orders was used in the race or not, they would have won the race. It's not like they cheated to get a win, like what Renault did in 2008.
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I haven't seen Red Bull mentioned one time (other than now) so, I don't really know where that assumption came from. Two, isn't Lewis in the points lead right now? Part of me is glad they weren't penalized because of Massa, the other part of me wanted something other than a dig in any one person's wallet over at Ferrari because one, Fernando is a whiner (although that has nothing to do with Ferrari from what I've read/been told) and two, it was about as clear and see-through as a transparent window. Felipe had to give (well, he didn't have to) up his position because Fernando was faster than him....if he were really faster than him he would have passed him on his own accord, not because the team told him to slow down.

See where I'm driving (no pun intended :lol:)?
 
I think they should have gotten the constructors championship points from that race stripped, not much more though as in my eyes at least it seems like a rather minor infraction of the team order rule.
 
Bad call. This sets a dangerous precedent - teams can now freely manipulate the race outcome, and at most it will cost them a hundred thousand dollars.
 
I feel like the only one who read the alternative opinions that Ferrari didn't need to be punished further and that the rule should be changed as it was always a fallacy anyway. I think its a bit rich to be saying the FIA have lost credibility with this decision when some here were stating the opposite - that harsher penalties would also be a bad decision.

Although I don't like that a team has effectively got away with breaking a rule, I think the FIA are going the right way about it and should scrap the rule entirely.
I feel that if a situation like Austria 2002 arose again, I'd be more inclined just to accept it from a sporting rule point of view. I would still be slightly angry at Ferrari for screwing a driver's chances so early in a season though.

I don't see any way that F1 can really get away from team orders without getting rid of the teams altogether.
What's more, I find it quite amusing that team orders ruin the so called credibility of F1 yet not every other motorsport out there.

A delicate issue for sure, I don't think this decision was fuelled by not wanting to offend Ferrari, simply that the FIA are considering that the rule itself is impossible to police.

I keep banging on about how motorsport is not a individual sport, its a team sport. I think this applies here too, I wonder if people are simply assuming its all about the drivers and that all sporting rules should be designed around the individual. I also ask if those of you who dislike team orders in F1, also dislike it in the other forms of motorsport? Does anyone have a suggestion of how to solve the team orders problem?

There definitely needs to be some kind rule for race-fixing, but specific team orders rules are difficult to police. Maybe the FIA would be better off with a more broadly-defined rule which allows them to penalise any kind of race fixing, rather than just proof of team-orders?
 
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