Skid Recovery Is Not Assist, but Cheat? RX7 race?

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chaosdd

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chaosdd
Hi Guys,

I just want to share a few thoughts on the seasonal races and Skid Recovery.

I always play with ABS 1, all other assists off. Generally speaking the assists trade safety and correct mistakes at the cost of speed. Theoretically speaking, an excellent driver should be faster with all off.
My car IRL has TC, Stability Assist (ESP/ASM), ABS, etc. like most other modern (including sports) cars. Hell, manufacturers are even working on Active Steering (Ford, Honda, VW) and it'll be introduced soon.
I can understand unexperienced drivers using (some of) the above, moreover, they actually exist IRL.

Well, Skid Recovery is something completely different! Read below.

I have golded all Licenses and Special events, assists off, so should be a decent driver. I have done the first 5 seasonal races - great fun, not esp. difficult (bar the 500 one :)). Yesterday I golded Nascar on the Ring in two trys. Huge fun (go for VERY SOFT setup + lots of downforce). These heavyweights perform much better than expected on the Ring. Mustang race was more difficult (blame the rubbish tires and your/myself, not the car :)) but did it.

RX7 on Tsukuba was something different. Despite the car handling beatifully, I was 2 secs per lap off the gold pace. Couldn't lap at less than 1.02. I think I'm a decent driver, but 2 secs on Tsukuba is hell of a lot of time. With some fine-tuning, crazy driving and many hours, I can probably do it, but didn't have the time. So I remembered reading in the forum that nailing this is hardly possible without Skid Recovery.

I tried Skid Recovery for the first time, just as an experiment. Well, it did exactly what it said:
It generated TRACTION OUT OF THIN AIR under the wheel(s) breaking tracttion. I could feel it immediately. You could corner much harder, because the Skid Recovery gives you BONUS TRACTION exactly where and when you need. Also, almost impossible to spin. Actually, it encourages bad driving, becase the more you're skidding, the more bonus traction you get.
I caught the leader easily on the 9th lap on the first Skid on try. 2-3 seconds of the lap times vanished without overworking myself.
So yes - it can be easily done with Skid on (valid for all events, most probably). However, I got zero satisfaction from it.

My point is that we should refer to Skid Recovery as a CHAET, not ASSIST, because:
1. It's not (nor ever will be) available IRL.
2. Magically CREATES traction out of nothing, not using the available one.
3. Even profficient driver will be much faster with it, beacause it gives you bonus traction.
4. Encourages bad driving.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not judging or moralizing people using it. Everybody is free to play the game as he/she likes IMO.
I just want all of us to be clear/aware of the above.

P.S. Has anybody done the RX7 and Focus race without Skid Recovery? Any experience and advice will be valuable for me.
 
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I agree with you. You go to all this trouble to make a simulation so why bother with such a feature? Probably to make the game more accessible to non hardcore drivers, but I am frustrated every time I go online, to have to select skid recovery off every time, and also seeing there are far fewer and less popular races with skid recovery off.
 
If skid control helps me to get 1,000,000 credits and 100,000 xp on a (slightly unfair) temporary event, I'm up for that.
 
If game would give XP/Cr amounts based on usage of assists there would be no problems.
 
Because most people will come to the first bend and loose it and throw the game in the bin. I race with a few assists. I love driving and sticking to the line so what ever helps me do it i will go with it.
 
Never used it for myself, but I'm amazed by the difference is seems to make: 2 -3 seconds in 1 minute is A LOT ! Sure explains why some claim the seasonal events are easy.

Let me swim across the stream then, willing to accept less than gold if it's all I can achieve without skid recovery. Says he who's still missing 0.5 - 2 sec at the end of the race on the Mini challenge...
 
sidsid118
If skid control helps me to get 1,000,000 credits and 100,000 xp on a (slightly unfair) temporary event, I'm up for that.
Click to expand...


Of course, feel free to get these rewards. Especially if you decide that not using Skid Recovery will cost you too much time if possible for you at all. I said I didn't meant to be edifying.
However, if you trust me, exactly the 1 mil. events are absolutely doable without Skid Recovery and great fun. You don't need it for the GT-R and Nascar races.

The tough ones are the RX7 and the Focus, obviously (I didn't try the latter yet).

BTW, I haven't done much online racing yet, but I really cannot imagine someone using it. It can be dis-allowed by the host, I guess.
 
WhiteAnimal166
Never used it for myself, but I'm amazed by the difference is seems to make: 2 -3 seconds in 1 minute is A LOT ! Sure explains why some claim the seasonal events are easy.

Let me swim across the stream then, willing to accept less than gold if it's all I can achieve without skid recovery. Says he who's still missing 0.5 - 2 sec at the end of the race on the Mini challenge...
Click to expand...

Mini is doable with Skid off. Try not using the LSD or set it very mildly. Try also going for signifficantly lower and harder front suspension than rear. My Mini looked like under heavy braking even under acceleration :). Yeah, it's tough. Brake bias to the rear might also help. Transmission at 190 km/h (120 mph?)!
 
The way I understand it, the skid recovery function is a replacement for the missing "standard physics" setting in GT5. It is not meant as an assistant which would be available in real life, rather than an easily accessible way for beginners to make their life in GT5 easier.

While I am happy that PD made a feature some people will probably use pretty often so accessible in a menu you come across before every race, this fact is somewhat misleading, because it is grouped with the real-world driving assists. Since the choice of tires is made in this menu as well (and not in the car tuning menu where you would look for it), there is no deeper meaning behind that I guess.

So if you read "skid recovery" and replace it with "standard physics" in your mind, it makes sense it appears in this menu, and it explains how this is related to the real world settings like ASM and TCS - not at all.
 
@chaosdd: Thanks for the advice, I'll take it to heart.

As for the standard physics comparison vs skid recovery: in GT5P the laptimes were only a few tenths faster on the leaderboards between standard and professional physics. On professional the car was harder to control but not that much slower if you mastered it. So for me the skid recovery feels too much over compensation, though I understand it makes the game accessible for less hardcore or new gamers.
 
I gold the RX-7 without SRF, TC3 (or 4, can't remember) ABS1 by drifting around on some corners but it was after 20+ retrys (with SRF on) and follow one of the setup in the forum but it didn't work out. So I just set the Downforce 0/25 and Brakes 6/5 out of frustration and somehow catch up with GT-R at mid Lap 5, before it was slowed down by the 300zx
 
Checked out the skid recovery on my X1 while grinding the Indy event in "like the wind".

Let off the throttle and weaved hard continuously. The car accelerated to keep grip (I had TCS off). Haven't tried this with any other car, but I'd imagine it's roughly the same. I'm actually considering doing some of these special events as I could really use the money and the EXP (and since people say it's easy with SRF).

So maybe we're getting 120% throttle without knowing it? Or those Brigestone tires that can pull 1g turns...

I wouldn't go so far to call it a cheat, but more of a helper aid when doing particularly hard events (especially with DS3, like me, and for beginners-as it says in the quick notes).
 
amar212
If game would give XP/Cr amounts based on usage of assists there would be no problems.
Click to expand...

100% support of this.

The amount of credits/XP awarded to you on a certain event should be heavily penalized accordingly to the amount of aids you were using on such event.

This would be the most fair way to do it, keeping the assist usable for those who want to use them.
 
I race with skid recovery on the harder races, and I dont feel im cheating. Working full time, having a family, house, pets, bills, etc etc doesn't net alot of free time to video games, and i need to use it to win. Driving Simulator or not, its still a video game. It was made to have fun with. Fun to me is winning races.
 
Actually, Skid Recovery does exactly what it says (quoting from memory):
"Automatically INCREASE TRACTION for the wheel(s) that start skidding".
It's not only easier using it (would be assist), it's actually much faster => not fair. This is bonus traction when and where you need it (per wheel). I could feel it worked exactly that way (as described).
We should know it, that's my point.

The ESP (aka ASM in GT5) for example (IRL and? GT5), uses the individual brakes of each wheel, thus helping to steer the car and prevent losing control, keeping you on the road. On the road, it can be helpful even for experienced drivers. Also, you cannot spin the car. This is althogether slowing you down, however, not making you faster.

Sure, if anybody likes Skid Recovery or some assist on (maybe from time to time) - free to do it. The game should be fun for everybody and we have different preferences.

BTW. I'm 31, also hard working and time limited.
 
The problem here is not whether people are using it or not. If they need to use it to win an event well they can do just that. If you are good enough and don't need it, well more power to you. The only way I can see this being a problem is when you have competitions to see who can achieve a fastest lap or online. In those occasions maybe the SRF would make some times quite unfair. But apart from that, you payed for your own game, play as you want :P
 
chaosdd
Mini is doable with Skid off. Try not using the LSD or set it very mildly. Try also going for signifficantly lower and harder front suspension than rear. My Mini looked like under heavy braking even under acceleration :). Yeah, it's tough. Brake bias to the rear might also help. Transmission at 190 km/h (120 mph?)!
Click to expand...

LSD 10/20/10 certainly helped vs my no LSD setup, and transmission up from 190 km/h >>> 200 km/h improved acceleration. Brake bias still to the front though, but took the lead halfway through the 180 degrees turn on the last lap, no skid recovery.

Will update my progress view later on to reflect the Mini's final setup. Thanks for the LSD hint 👍
 
Oh please, not again... If it's not B-spec, copy protection it is the skid recovery force.. I'm getting tired of this.
If it shuts all elitists up I am all for increasing the XP reward for not using the skid recovery force.


Just to avoid the users vs. non-users discussion: I haven't used 'the force' (yet).
 
I would be fine with SRF being in the game if I didn't have to use it. I don't think it's a cheat - it's not like you're competing with anyone but yourself in A-spec and you can turn it off online.

I find it quite hard to drive with SRF on because you have no idea where the limit is until you're way beyond it - the car just doesn't react the way I expect. I suck at Mario Kart and I suck with SRF on, because in neither case can I make proper use of what I know about driving fast.

I hate the fact that you have to use it in some license tests (because you can't turn it off) and it seems you have to use it in some of the seasonal events because they're impossible without it. That sucks. A decent driver should be able to complete the whole game without using it.
 
BobElHat
I hate the fact that you have to use it in some license tests (because you can't turn it off) and it seems you have to use it in some of the seasonal events because they're impossible without it. That sucks. A decent driver should be able to complete the whole game without using it.
Click to expand...

Once again I should restate that you can win all the challenges in the game without it, it has been done before, by more than one member, so I hope people stop thinking it as an necessary evil.
 
Thats a lot of boasting just to stress one point. Everyone need not to know your achievements on GT5. Nevertheless, I agree with you on driver assists, they really ought to be off to truly experience the game's physics.
 
The only problem i have with skid recovery force is that some events are obviously tuned around having it on.

For example the sebastian vettel challenge, and some of the harder seasonal events. PD obviously assumed youre going to use it, so they make the events hard enough that theyre almost impossible without it. Which sucks.
 
chaosdd
Hi Guys,

I just want to share a few thoughts on the seasonal races and Skid Recovery.

I always play with ABS 1, all other assists off. Generally speaking the assists trade safety and correct mistakes at the cost of speed. Theoretically speaking, an excellent driver should be faster with all off.
My car IRL has TC, Stability Assist (ESP/ASM), ABS, etc. like most other modern (including sports) cars. Hell, manufacturers are even working on Active Steering (Ford, Honda, VW) and it'll be introduced soon.
I can understand unexperienced drivers using (some of) the above, moreover, they actually exist IRL.

Well, Skid Recovery is something completely different! Read below.

I have golded all Licenses and Special events, assists off, so should be a decent driver. I have done the first 5 seasonal races - great fun, not esp. difficult (bar the 500 one :)). Yesterday I golded Nascar on the Ring in two trys. Huge fun (go for VERY SOFT setup + lots of downforce). These heavyweights perform much better than expected on the Ring. Mustang race was more difficult (blame the rubbish tires and your/myself, not the car :)) but did it.

RX7 on Tsukuba was something different. Despite the car handling beatifully, I was 2 secs per lap off the gold pace. Couldn't lap at less than 1.02. I think I'm a decent driver, but 2 secs on Tsukuba is hell of a lot of time. With some fine-tuning, crazy driving and many hours, I can probably do it, but didn't have the time. So I remembered reading in the forum that nailing this is hardly possible without Skid Recovery.

I tried Skid Recovery for the first time, just as an experiment. Well, it did exactly what it said:
It generated TRACTION OUT OF THIN AIR under the wheel(s) breaking tracttion. I could feel it immediately. You could corner much harder, because the Skid Recovery gives you BONUS TRACTION exactly where and when you need. Also, almost impossible to spin. Actually, it encourages bad driving, becase the more you're skidding, the more bonus traction you get.
I caught the leader easily on the 9th lap on the first Skid on try. 2-3 seconds of the lap times vanished without overworking myself.
So yes - it can be easily done with Skid on (valid for all events, most probably). However, I got zero satisfaction from it.

My point is that we should refer to Skid Recovery as a CHAET, not ASSIST, because:
1. It's not (nor ever will be) available IRL.
2. Magically CREATES traction out of nothing, not using the available one.
3. Even profficient driver will be much faster with it, beacause it gives you bonus traction.
4. Encourages bad driving.
5. Etc.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not judging or moralizing people using it. Everybody is free to play the game as he/she likes IMO.
I just want all of us to be clear/aware of the above.

P.S. Has anybody done the RX7 and Focus race without Skid Recovery? Any experience and advice will be valuable for me.
Click to expand...

Obviously all of you saying it's "cheating" and "not real" obviously don't know a whole lot about real world cars.

GT5's "Skid Recovery" is just another word for the real worlds "YAW Control" which does the same exactly thing.

My buddy Keyon has an '03 Infinity G35 equipped with YAW control, and we actually did some track testing with it in dry conditions, it was literally damn near impossible to get that car to lose control, doing the same things with it off it was quite easy to lose control.

There are DOZENS and DOZENS of car models equipped with YAW Control, yes here in the real world.

My take on it is. . . you should have to purchase "Skid Recovery" as an upgrade, would solve a lot of bickering and crying, especially from the users who "think they're elite"
 
GR1P_0082R
Obviously all of you saying it's "cheating" and "not real" obviously don't know a whole lot about real world cars.

GT5's "Skid Recovery" is just another word for the real worlds "YAW Control" which does the same exactly thing.

My buddy Keyon has an '03 Infinity G35 equipped with YAW control, and we actually did some track testing with it in dry conditions, it was literally damn near impossible to get that car to lose control, doing the same things with it off it was quite easy to lose control.

There are DOZENS and DOZENS of car models equipped with YAW Control, yes here in the real world.

My take on it is. . . you should have to purchase "Skid Recovery" as an upgrade, would solve a lot of bickering and crying, especially from the users who "think they're elite"
Click to expand...

Do you really think the yaw control increase traction?
It's not at all equal to srf.
 
Obviously SRF is cheap if people are racing and somebody uses it when others don't. I don't see SRF as a cheat. Instead, it makes the game different. It makes the game feel more arcade-ish which is probably PD's aim at a wider audience.

Another user brought up a good point which is the challenges that allow SRF to be on are much harder to get gold in if you turn it off. I honestly think PD should have made 2 different gold times for SRF on and SRF off just to suit players of different styles.
 
I don't use it but understand why it needs to be included. I don't have a problem with people using it, since its their game. I just get irritated when people say how easy an event was, and when you ask them their setup, they say SRF on, Active Steering Mild, TCS 5, etc. Dont claim something is so easy when you're using all of these cheats / assists. Turn them off if its so easy for you. That's my gripe about them.
 
GR1P_0082R
Obviously all of you saying it's "cheating" and "not real" obviously don't know a whole lot about real world cars.

GT5's "Skid Recovery" is just another word for the real worlds "YAW Control" which does the same exactly thing.

My buddy Keyon has an '03 Infinity G35 equipped with YAW control, and we actually did some track testing with it in dry conditions, it was literally damn near impossible to get that car to lose control, doing the same things with it off it was quite easy to lose control.

There are DOZENS and DOZENS of car models equipped with YAW Control, yes here in the real world.

My take on it is. . . you should have to purchase "Skid Recovery" as an upgrade, would solve a lot of bickering and crying, especially from the users who "think they're elite"
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but you are not right. SRF creates traction. No real world aid can do that. All of them are distributing the available traction.
You might be confusing what ESP - Electronic Stability Program, aka Stability Assist, etc. (known in the game as ASM) does.

It compares the driver input (by the steering wheel) with the actual trajectory of the car (reading info from the ABS sensors and comparing difference in rotation between the wheels). It also has yaw sensor. If the trajectory is different than required, after reaching pre-programmed treshold, the system intervenes. It can reduce engine torque to slow you down, but is mainly using the brakes of the individual wheels to 1. slow you down enough to take the corner, but mainly to help you turn the car. For example, braking the rear inner wheel on understeer in order to rotate the car around it or he other way around on oversteer. That's simplified, it's actually much more complicated. The system is very intelligent and can react many times per second with braking impulses to different wheels in order to steer the car and kill some speed. Remember, it's just braking.
The result is that it keeps you on the road and it's almost impossible to spin the car or lose control. However, it's slowing you down (although with some exceptions). This is in road cars. This is more or less in the game.

Totally different than SRF which gives bonus traction for the skidding wheel.

Once again, everybody is free to use it. However, we should be aware that driving with and without SRF is simply not comparable. That was my point.
 
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Hi there,

I don't want to troll, mess with anyone who thinks drive best in a VIDEO GAME BUT... i'd like to know one thing when you say : SRF are cheat and so on and so on... What controller you drive with ? PS3 Pad ? Steering Wheel ? Playseat with a G27 ?

Now, c'mon a bit down to my level, I'm a non professional driver, play video games for fun and don't own even the slightest meanest baddest steering wheel, I drive with the most BASIC controller ever found in a PS3 box !!!!

Now... How the HECK am i gonna do to CONTROL my gas and my steering with that lowlife deleted by Moderator controller of a PS3 standard pad !!!!!!???? and not over or understeer losing traction with such a baddie as a RX7 !? huh ? HOW !!!!

Now cut the crap and stop yelling at pple who uses that kind of thing...

I golded all A-Spec and special events no pblm, with a pad and without aids most of the time, but as for the seasonal and licenses, yeah, I almost broke one pad throwing it all the way through the room because I couldn't even succeed the 7th place in about 20 tryouts !

So plze, stop saying : using aids are lame, cheats and only the hAx0rs should own the game and play it with a f...ing playseat and G27 !!! maaaan ! get a life !
 
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