Mr. Yamauchi, Porsche "derivatives"? Please?

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All if you're a Porsche fanatic like myself and many others, you wish there were more "911's" (930, 964, 993,996, 997) or other Porsche models for that matter (944, 928, etc). I know Yamaguchi loves these cars, especially the Rothman's 956 with his mention about Porsche's and Stefan Bellof in the GT TV video about the Monterey Historic Automobile Race.

So due to a licensing stranglehold of Microsoft and Electronic Arts (or the cost of such, which is a complete bummer :grumpy: ), we don't see official Porsche's in GT5. Well then how about more derivatives of a less conventional means like the following. After all we see alot of other tuners like Mine's, amuse, Spoon, etc; why not these in addition to RUF?

- edo-competition *

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- Gemballa *

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- TechArt *

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- Mansory *

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*(Personal favorites, but there's numerous Porsche tuners or "derivative manufacture's" in the world!)

Now I understand that some of these might now be considered "Manufactures" as the RUF, but I also wonder if these would be considered Licensing "loop holes" :scared:

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But as I mentioned before there's others that are also reminiscent of the 962 and 956 cars as well

Schuppan 962CR -



The Schuppan 962CR was a vehicle built in 1994 by Australian racecar driver Vern Schuppan. It was built as a tribute to Schuppan's 1983 24 Hours of Le Mans victory and 1989 All Japan Sports Prototype Championship title. The 962CR is based on the dominant Le Mans-winning Porsche 962 race car of which Schuppan raced and owned with his own team.
The 962CR is a mid-engine, rear-wheel drive vehicle weighing 1,050 kg (2,315 lb). Powering the car is a 3.3-litre Type-935 Flat-6 featuring twin KKK turbochargers giving 600 hp (about 182 hp/L) mated to a five-speed manual transmission. This unit was borrowed nearly directly from the standard Porsche 962 unit used in the North American IMSA GT Championship with a slight decrease in displacement. The car's top speed is 230 mph (370 km/h) with a 0–60 mph acceleration time of 3.5 seconds.
The chassis and body were built entirely by Schuppan, although it featured design elements from the 962 race car. Assembly took place at the VSL 60,000 ft² race and production facility in High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, England. Funding was provided by Japanese investors who support Schuppan's race team that ran in the All Japan Sports Prototype Championship.
At just over US$1.5 million in 1994, the Schuppan 962CR is among the most expensive vehicles ever sold new. Rumors circulated for several years that the 962CR was sold new for US$2.5 million, but this rumor was eventually dispelled by author and Porsche enthusiast Karl Ludvigsen who listed a price of ¥195 000 000.
It is unknown how many Schuppan 962CRs were ever completed, with the number believed to be either five or six. Payment failed to arrive for two of the vehicles after they were shipped to Japan. This, coupled with the high cost of the car's construction and a worldwide economic recession, forced Schuppan to declare bankruptcy, folding not only his car company but his race team as well.
 
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I've been wondering about this for a long time. There is a range of tuners which, just like RUF, offers vehicles based on Porsche parts under their own brand name. These should be legal to be used without a license and would soften the blow to not have Porsche in Gran Turismo. Since PD didn't even make any Premium RUFs for GT5 however, it seems they don't see this as a prior task.
 
Interesting post, bear in mind though that RUF (and one or two others) aren't simply tuners, they construct the cars from scratch using moulds etc. provided by Porsche (if memory serves) which is why they can apparently be included in GT. Some of the companies you mention simply tune new Porsches, but it's still really a Porsche, and EA's lawyers would no doubt be watching 👎

By the way, it's considered impolite to address a Japanese man by his last name only, I guess more so when you call him "Yamaguchi" :P
 
In terms of legality, everything which isn't sold as a Porsche should be okay. Porsche stated that they don't interfere with the gaming business, and EA would have a hard time arguing that a car which contains parts of a Porsche, but which isn't labeled as a Porsche, mustn't be in the game. On that basis, RUFs would be illegal as well.
 
Yeah I agree with the OP. Would love to see more cars that are 'like' Porsche, but due to international copyright laws; aren't.
 
Clearly, Porsche does not have enough mimesis points, therefore they were not included the immaculate creation that is GT5.

If you really want porsches in the game, call your local porsche representative and senator and tell them you want Porsche to start putting their engine in proper places like the front or between the axles so their mimesis points go up.
 
General info snippet about the situation in Germany:

When a company makes "significant technical changes" to the car they use as a basis, the original manufacturer forbids to sell it under the original brand name. The idea behind this is that the car has changed so much that the original manufacturer does not want to give its name for it, because it is hardly related to the original product anymore.

A lot of todays major tuning companies/manufacturers started out as small tuners. Over time, as they became bigger and tuned cars to a bigger extent, they were forced to become manufacturers and thus offer their cars under their own brands. This includes names like Brabus, Gemballa, RUF, Alpina, Hartge, Techart and many more.
 
Clearly, Porsche does not have enough mimesis points, therefore they were not included the immaculate creation that is GT5.

If you really want porsches in the game, call your local porsche representative and senator and tell them you want Porsche to start putting their engine in proper places like the front or between the axles so their mimesis points go up.

Is "mimesis" going to be a meme on GTP? Are developers of driving games not allowed to have more of a spiritual life than Tim "moar powah" Allen? It would be interesting to mod up a Boxster or Caymen to similar specs as a derriere-engined 911 to see how they'd fare against each other.
 
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Without seeing the license EA has with Porsche I would have to presume that it gives them exclusivity to cars manufactured under the Porsche branding regardless of any after market modification carried out to them by tuning companies. All of those cars listed are still in fact Porsche built they are simply taken by the tuning company and modification performed to them. RUF differ significantly to this as they buy the raw components from Porsche and then manufacture with their own parts to their own specifications. Other than the fact they are a similar shape and the engine is at the back (in some models), that is the extent of their relationship with a Porsche.

Think of it like how Gears of War uses the Unreal 3 engine but is an Xbox exclusive.
 
They won't do it - GT 6 will only contain - 500 "different" Syklines and 500 "lower than 50hp cars.

And like 400 S2000's and rx-7's. Really, i mean from the ±1000 cars there are like 150(?) of the same cars. But just another country. Like the s2000..
 
good feedback here!!!

Yes I agree with the lot of ya.

I'm aware also of the difference of some tuners to manufactures, but some have exclusive manufacture rights.

Take the 3400s, all they do mainly is swap the power plant with some minor tunes then rebuild the whole car.

So how much does it take I wonder to be considered a sole manufacture,
and with out burning a bridge at Porsche with being considered for GT5? <-Thats the real question

Of course you are right about EA's lawyers on standby watching ever so closely:odd:.

For those of you interested I've been running a Porsche Cup
 
Would love to have more variations of Porsche, anyway how come Forza got Porsche if EA own rights?
 
Take the 3400s, all they do mainly is swap the power plant with some minor tunes then rebuild the whole car.

So how much does it take I wonder to be considered a sole manufacture,
and with out burning a bridge at Porsche with being considered for GT5? <-Thats the real question [/URL]

With the 3400S though they didn't take a Porsche built Boxter then modify it. They bought the shell and the 3.4l engine from Porsche, tuned the engine, modified the shell to handle the larger more powerful unit. Installed their own spec suspension, aero and brakes. As such the car isn't a Porsche like the other tuned models are.
 
By the way, it's considered impolite to address a Japanese man by his last name only, I guess more so when you call him "Yamaguchi" :P
-You're right, done.


Would love to have more variations of Porsche, anyway how come Forza got Porsche if EA own rights?

Microsoft might have a shared interest as well, never know might be Microsoft making the "block". I would side with this assumption more then likely with M$ knowing about Sony's interest in Gran Tourismo in general.
 
Microsoft might have a shared interest as well, never know might be Microsoft making the "block". I would side with this assumption more then likely with M$ knowing about Sony's interest in Gran Tourismo in general.

Yeah you could be right, so unfair :grumpy:
 
That's an excellent question. I think it's safe to assume that Kaz is aware of how important the addition of Porsche would be for the Gran Turismo series. Whether one likes Porsche or not is a different question, but they sure have a rank in the automotive world one can not blatantly ignore forever. Either way, Kaz has shown in several interviews that he is interested in adding Porsche to the long list of manufacturers.

So, let's assume EA asked for a fantastillion yen for the sub-license, and Sony said no. Let's also assume that all manufacturers which offer own cars based on Porsches are out of the question for legal reasons as well (which I don't believe, but can't verify), and that the only legal alternative is RUF. If you were Kaz, what would you do in this situation? Right! Make damn sure you have the RUF portfolio covered as good as possible in the game.

That said, there are a lot of cars which have substantial automotive pedigree, but which are nowhere to be seen in Gran Turismo. Should the current RUFs be on that list, too? Well, if they wanted to contain the damage done by the anew loss of Porsche, you'd assume it would be pretty high up. On the other hand, this is just one more chapter in the endless discussion of why car X was left out of GT5, and car Y was chosen to make it as a premium vehicle instead.
 
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I'd like to see more Tuner companies in general... I mean there are a whole plethora of companies out there that haven't been picked up by any game, or at least a major title. A lot of these companies have legit racing reputations, histories, and are definitely recognized on a world wide scale of automotive enthusiasm.

It would definitely add to the car list, but in a very interesting way. These companies are masterful in their tuning of track cars and what better game to include them in than Gran Turismo? And just imagine all the different kinds of models that could be rendered in the inclusion of these numerous tuner companies???
 
Uhm Saleen for instance to name another one, so wish there was a Saleen upgrade for the Mustang!

Be nice to have multiple tuners to go to for upgrades as well, but physics data would be off the charts.
 
9ff have also become quite prominent of recent years, again for their work turning Porsche's into new vehicles.
 
Interesting post, bear in mind though that RUF (and one or two others) aren't simply tuners, they construct the cars from scratch using moulds etc. provided by Porsche (if memory serves) which is why they can apparently be included in GT. Some of the companies you mention simply tune new Porsches, but it's still really a Porsche, and EA's lawyers would no doubt be watching 👎

By the way, it's considered impolite to address a Japanese man by his last name only, I guess more so when you call him "Yamaguchi" :P

Completely false, in Japan popular persons, or public persons are addressed without the San, and that is perfectly polite.
 
So due to a licensing stranglehold of Microsoft and Electronic Arts (or the cost of such, which is a complete bummer :grumpy: ), we don't see official Porsche's in GT5. Well then how about more derivatives of a less conventional means like the following. After all we see alot of other tuners like Mine's, amuse, Spoon, etc; why not these in addition to RUF?

Just so folks are clear about this, Microsoft has nothing to do with the license that EA has for Porsche. Turn 10 purchased a sub-license from EA so they could include Porsche in Forza Motorsport on the Microsoft XBox, just like PD could have done with GT5 but didn't.

Otherwise, I agree with much of your post.
 
Would love to have more variations of Porsche, anyway how come Forza got Porsche if EA own rights?

Turn 10 paid EA for a sub-license to include Porsche in Forza Motorsport. PD could have done the same.
 
Yeah I don't buy the whole license thing, if PD wanted to include them that badly they could. And as people have pointed out, if KY knew how important the addition of Porsche would be for the series, he would at least include some premium RUF's or even a few Gemballa or TechArt models.

The Gemballa Mirage GT would be amazing...
 
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