lets fix the speed 12
- Thread starter jvchevy27
- 44 comments
- 4,339 views
- 3,530
- London, Ontario
- Starky513
I have weight over the front wheels, along with a very stiff front shock, and i change the height around alot, but I found it helped with the massive understeer
- 12,640
- paracuru
- praiano63
Check this i think is the good way.
This are my first settings, tell me if it's ok for a base. I think it is...
1027 hp
1020 kg
686 pp
Downforce 35/76
LSD Rear 15/30/8
Ride Height -25/0
Spring Rate 16.5/14.0
Extension 8/5
Compression 7/6
Anti-roll bars 4/3
Camber 1.8/1.5
Toe +0.08/-0.08
Brake Balance 6/8
tires R3/R3
- 12,640
- paracuru
- praiano63
- 8,642
- London
- GTP_Stotty
I started working on getting the Speed 12 to run sub 7 minutes at the 'Ring on sports hards last night.
Only spent a bit of time on it so far, but already down to a 7'00.761, so once I've got in to the 6's I'll post it up - hopefull in the next few days.
Only spent a bit of time on it so far, but already down to a 7'00.761, so once I've got in to the 6's I'll post it up - hopefull in the next few days.
- 12,640
- paracuru
- praiano63
- 8,642
- London
- GTP_Stotty
hardly!It's a nice challenge trying to find cars that will run sub 7 minutes on sports hards.
The Speed 12 is a lot easier to drive than the Enzo (at >900 and ~1000kg, best I could manage in that was a 7'03)... at least the Speed 12 has a decent amount of downforce.
The car itself handles pretty decently now. It's much better balanced and stops/turns in nicely enough, but unfortunately it still suffers from a bit of mid corner and exit understeer on a balanced throttle, which is a pain as it kills exit speed from medium speed corners. But I have an idea to fix that
The other key challenge of course is traction... but there's no real fix for this other than a sensitive right foot... the car wheelspins in 4th gear in a straight line and will wheelspin in 5th gear if you change up early whilst spinning in 4th or if you hit a bump or catch a kerb... and this kills acceleration. You can do whatever you want with the LSD... with 1,000bhp it has so much power that it just overwhelms any settings you try there. You can't use full throttle in 3rd gear, and 4th gear requires max 75% throttle until it's hooked up... so for vast parts of the lap you're hardly able to use more than a fraction of the performance.
It did feel pretty manageable with just the Supercharger upgrade (c.935bhp), but when I fitted the stage 3 engine upgrade (>1,000bhp) traction became a much, much bigger issue and I was actually slower... I should have left the engine upgrade alone!
- 113
- Skunkyskunkface
Maybe stage 3 with no supercharger? Looking forward to the settings
- 12,640
- paracuru
- praiano63
The supercharger spread the power with almost no peak . The stage 3 turbo give all it can at high rpm ,so you have to negociate with it..... Call the SWAT.
- 113
- Skunkyskunkface
I see, all about the torque curve. I have two speed 12's (loved them on old gran turismos) but having struggled with the car stock I cant bring myself to up the power just yet. I will attempt a tune over the weekend but dont have that much hope of being successful.
- 8,642
- London
- GTP_Stotty
TVR Speed 12 settings...
I ran a 6'58 round the 'Ring on sports hards and a 6'29 on sports softs using these.
The car is fully tuned, but with the power limiter set to 982bhp to help with traction - I don't think it would need the power limiter on softs and would be quicker without it.
The car is very challenging to drive round the 'Ring on hards, but it's lovely on softs. No idea what it's like on any other track yet. I only ran 1 quick lap on softs after hitting the sub 7 on hards, so the tune might be improved for grippier tyres... to be honest, on hards, it's difficult to feel a lot of the adjustments as the power just overwhelms the grip!
This is a work in progress, so I may update it in the future.
I'm uploading a video of the 6'58 to youtube and will post it once it's ready.
Max Power: 982bhp
Aero: 35 61
Gears
Set top speed to 255mph then adjust individual gears as follows....
1st 3464
2nd 2271
3rd 1627
4th 1229
5th 988
6th 837
Final 3310
LSD
(on hards it doesn't really matter what you set this to as long as initial it's too high. I haven't tried adjusting it for softs yet)
5 40 5
Suspension
Ride +15 -30
Spring 17.8 16.8
Rebound 10 9
Bound 9 8
ARB 1 4
Camber 3.0 2.0
Toe -0.15 -0.25
Brakes
4 3
I ran a 6'58 round the 'Ring on sports hards and a 6'29 on sports softs using these.
The car is fully tuned, but with the power limiter set to 982bhp to help with traction - I don't think it would need the power limiter on softs and would be quicker without it.
The car is very challenging to drive round the 'Ring on hards, but it's lovely on softs. No idea what it's like on any other track yet. I only ran 1 quick lap on softs after hitting the sub 7 on hards, so the tune might be improved for grippier tyres... to be honest, on hards, it's difficult to feel a lot of the adjustments as the power just overwhelms the grip!
This is a work in progress, so I may update it in the future.
I'm uploading a video of the 6'58 to youtube and will post it once it's ready.
Max Power: 982bhp
Aero: 35 61
Gears
Set top speed to 255mph then adjust individual gears as follows....
1st 3464
2nd 2271
3rd 1627
4th 1229
5th 988
6th 837
Final 3310
LSD
(on hards it doesn't really matter what you set this to as long as initial it's too high. I haven't tried adjusting it for softs yet)
5 40 5
Suspension
Ride +15 -30
Spring 17.8 16.8
Rebound 10 9
Bound 9 8
ARB 1 4
Camber 3.0 2.0
Toe -0.15 -0.25
Brakes
4 3
Last edited:
(kidding!)No_OBsT33R
(Banned)
- 805
praiano63
You didn't find the OP's set up to handle better with nose up? The set up worked better for you with the nose down? Interesting.
- 12,640
- paracuru
- praiano63
It's a joke?? I don't know what's OP or PM , or ...... but this tune like this, like it is writen ,with bug no bug inverted colun or not ,don't work.
It's a fact.
No_OBsT33R
(Banned)
- 805
praiano63
OP = Original Poster
PM = Privet Message
- 12,640
- paracuru
- praiano63
I would like to know from the OP if he write the ride height like this +15 / -30 for anybody who want to test his tune to enter this settings like this in this order ???
That's all. I don't want to make any kind of intrusion or interfere in his thread.
If somebody understand this like that, please excuse me, it was not my purpose.
- 8,642
- London
- GTP_Stotty
Am I OP? Normally OP would be the thread starter.
BTW, my name is Chris
Edit... sorry missed this post...
OK, I'll give it a go, but I have a request 👍
I won't bother testing anything on race softs as these tyres are a waste of time for tuning. They mask any fundamental set up issues and completely kill any feel for what's happening at the tyre contact patch. So before I run a comparrison test, can you confirm if you're happy with your tune on sports softs?
BTW, when you tested my tune, did you re-set the power limiter to 100%? Reading your post it sounds like you're saying you took my exact settings and overlaid your ride and toe.
It's challenging, but not impossible to drive... it does handle like a proper car, it's just a lot faster
As you can see for the video, you need to brake early, but you can trail brake (something I always try to set my cars up to allow), then it's a matter of waiting until you can get all the steering lock off before getting back on the throttle - the car's main tendancy is still to understeer on the throttle (the cause of the 2 offs I had!). The limitting factor is traction... it spins on part throttle in 4th gear in a straight line, and spins all the way through 5th if it's not hooked up properly. Would probably be better if you could fit a less sharp clutch... as it stands, the superfast gear changes keep the tyres unhooked, when a softer clutch might allow a bit of slip and therefore soften the power transmission.
The spring rates do look high for such a light car but they seem to work... at one stage I was running them at close to max stiff, which made the car really responsive but also a bit twitchy.
BTW, my name is Chris
Edit... sorry missed this post...
OK, I'll give it a go, but I have a request 👍
I won't bother testing anything on race softs as these tyres are a waste of time for tuning. They mask any fundamental set up issues and completely kill any feel for what's happening at the tyre contact patch. So before I run a comparrison test, can you confirm if you're happy with your tune on sports softs?
BTW, when you tested my tune, did you re-set the power limiter to 100%? Reading your post it sounds like you're saying you took my exact settings and overlaid your ride and toe.
It's challenging, but not impossible to drive... it does handle like a proper car, it's just a lot faster
As you can see for the video, you need to brake early, but you can trail brake (something I always try to set my cars up to allow), then it's a matter of waiting until you can get all the steering lock off before getting back on the throttle - the car's main tendancy is still to understeer on the throttle (the cause of the 2 offs I had!). The limitting factor is traction... it spins on part throttle in 4th gear in a straight line, and spins all the way through 5th if it's not hooked up properly. Would probably be better if you could fit a less sharp clutch... as it stands, the superfast gear changes keep the tyres unhooked, when a softer clutch might allow a bit of slip and therefore soften the power transmission.
The spring rates do look high for such a light car but they seem to work... at one stage I was running them at close to max stiff, which made the car really responsive but also a bit twitchy.
Last edited:
- 12,640
- paracuru
- praiano63
Am I OP? Normally OP would be the thread starter.
BTW, my name is Chris
Edit... sorry missed this post...
OK, I'll give it a go, but I have a request 👍
I won't bother testing anything on race softs as these tyres are a waste of time for tuning. They mask any fundamental set up issues and completely kill any feel for what's happening at the tyre contact patch. So before I run a comparrison test, can you confirm if you're happy with your tune on sports softs?
BTW, when you tested my tune, did you re-set the power limiter to 100%? Reading your post it sounds like you're saying you took my exact settings and overlaid your ride and toe.
.
I confirm, i've test it now. Sport soft tyres,only changing the ride height, and toe to your settings, with the gost replay to show me where is the diference.
The diference of 2"500 with R3 goes to 1"500 less with S3 at SUZUKA and my partial settings.
The replay show that for cornering both have the same grip, your set is safer for this.
But the diference is in the traction increased by the -20/0 ride height.
First constatation, your setting is better under soft tires, more safe, but can have much more grip, this could be the point to correct.
- 8,642
- London
- GTP_Stotty
Tried both settings side by side...
The car is on sports softs, but only has 1008bhp as it needs an oil change
I'll start by saying that the TVR doesn't really work very well at Suzuka as the long, constant radius turns show up the bad traits of the car... namely mid and exit understeer. For on-line racing it would be much more enjoyable on race hards.
I started by running 10 laps in mine at Suzuka in mine... 1st few laps were really scetchy and I was struggling to find the brake points and running off track. But I gradually got the feel, and on the 10th lap I ran a 2'02.5.
Switched the settings over to those posted above and headed out to run 10 laps in yours.
My initial thoughts were 'bugger, all the stuff I posted in the thread is rubbish!'. On the way in to Casio on lap 1 the turn in felt much more immediate and I was able to use waaay more gas on the exit. On the run down to turn 1 I was a few car lengths ahead of my ghost and extended this on the entry to turn 1.
At this stage I could see me slaughtering my previous time and having to come back here and eat some humble pie (which I have no problems doing).
But as I went through the Esses, my ghost caught me up, and by Degner, had passed me, and it gradually pulled away for the rest of the lap.
Another 9 laps, and on most of those I could get ahead of my ghost until the Esses, and on some laps I could stay in touch (ie, within a few car lengths) to Degner, but I just couldn't stay with it for the remainder of the lap. Best lap I ran was a 2'03.1 which I could probably lower with a bit more time.
Then I went to the 'Ring, stuck the sports hards on, and loaded up my 6'58 ghost.
Again, I was miles ahead on my lap in T1 (as you'll see in the video, I made a mistake in turn 3 on my lap, missing the apex by miles and losing a lot of time)... but within a few corners my ghost passed me and promptly disappeared.
My 2nd lap was a 7'08, but I could see that coming down with a bit of seat time.
So what are the differences in the 2 tunes?
Yours has a lovely initial turn in... which I guess is because you're using a bit of +ve front toe. Here, it 'feels' much better than mine, and physically, it is better than mine. But the negative of using that +ve toe is that your's has less front end grip mid corner through to the exit... and if you carry a bit too much entry speed or try to pick up the throttle with any lock on, it understeers... and this kills exit speed.
Yours does have better traction - on softs at least, you can use more throttle. But the mid/exit understeer stops you using that extra traction early enough to benefit.
IMO, yours is more easily manageable for most as it requires much less throttle precision to drive - you can use more gas once the car is straight. But the mid corner understeer needs sorting... if you can fix that it would be really nice 👍
Mine is much more challenging to drive for sure... the lack of rear traction means you need to be very sensitive with the gas pedal or you'll certainly crash... it's certainly not suitable for all but the most skilled DS3 user for example
But IMO, the better mid corner front end grip allows better exit speed and as any good driver knows, exit speed is everything when it comes to lap times.
Edit... somewhere between the 2 could be a really nice tune... but that depends if compromising one thing doesn't ruin another!
The car is on sports softs, but only has 1008bhp as it needs an oil change
I'll start by saying that the TVR doesn't really work very well at Suzuka as the long, constant radius turns show up the bad traits of the car... namely mid and exit understeer. For on-line racing it would be much more enjoyable on race hards.
I started by running 10 laps in mine at Suzuka in mine... 1st few laps were really scetchy and I was struggling to find the brake points and running off track. But I gradually got the feel, and on the 10th lap I ran a 2'02.5.
Switched the settings over to those posted above and headed out to run 10 laps in yours.
My initial thoughts were 'bugger, all the stuff I posted in the thread is rubbish!'. On the way in to Casio on lap 1 the turn in felt much more immediate and I was able to use waaay more gas on the exit. On the run down to turn 1 I was a few car lengths ahead of my ghost and extended this on the entry to turn 1.
At this stage I could see me slaughtering my previous time and having to come back here and eat some humble pie (which I have no problems doing
).But as I went through the Esses, my ghost caught me up, and by Degner, had passed me, and it gradually pulled away for the rest of the lap.
Another 9 laps, and on most of those I could get ahead of my ghost until the Esses, and on some laps I could stay in touch (ie, within a few car lengths) to Degner, but I just couldn't stay with it for the remainder of the lap. Best lap I ran was a 2'03.1 which I could probably lower with a bit more time.
Then I went to the 'Ring, stuck the sports hards on, and loaded up my 6'58 ghost.
Again, I was miles ahead on my lap in T1 (as you'll see in the video, I made a mistake in turn 3 on my lap, missing the apex by miles and losing a lot of time)... but within a few corners my ghost passed me and promptly disappeared.
My 2nd lap was a 7'08, but I could see that coming down with a bit of seat time.
So what are the differences in the 2 tunes?
Yours has a lovely initial turn in... which I guess is because you're using a bit of +ve front toe. Here, it 'feels' much better than mine, and physically, it is better than mine. But the negative of using that +ve toe is that your's has less front end grip mid corner through to the exit... and if you carry a bit too much entry speed or try to pick up the throttle with any lock on, it understeers... and this kills exit speed.
Yours does have better traction - on softs at least, you can use more throttle. But the mid/exit understeer stops you using that extra traction early enough to benefit.
IMO, yours is more easily manageable for most as it requires much less throttle precision to drive - you can use more gas once the car is straight. But the mid corner understeer needs sorting... if you can fix that it would be really nice 👍
Mine is much more challenging to drive for sure... the lack of rear traction means you need to be very sensitive with the gas pedal or you'll certainly crash... it's certainly not suitable for all but the most skilled DS3 user for example
But IMO, the better mid corner front end grip allows better exit speed and as any good driver knows, exit speed is everything when it comes to lap times.Edit... somewhere between the 2 could be a really nice tune... but that depends if compromising one thing doesn't ruin another!
Last edited:
ride height 0/-20
spring rate 16.0/16.0
damper extension 10/9
damper compression 9/8
anti roll bars 5/7
camber 1.8/1.3
toe -0.15/-0.25
brakes 5/8
drive train 5/40/21 (initial torque can be a little higher)
max aero, and make the gears long you will need them.
I used racing soft and traction at 5. crashed a few times and once really bad, still got 6:28 at the nurb
spring rate 16.0/16.0
damper extension 10/9
damper compression 9/8
anti roll bars 5/7
camber 1.8/1.3
toe -0.15/-0.25
brakes 5/8
drive train 5/40/21 (initial torque can be a little higher)
max aero, and make the gears long you will need them.
I used racing soft and traction at 5. crashed a few times and once really bad, still got 6:28 at the nurb
- 12,640
- paracuru
- praiano63
You've got some way to go to catch up... I've run a 6'29 on sports softs using only ABS
Hey i'm 6'39" sport soft/abs now. My time go down using my tune always, but with a new transmition. The same way i've tamed the Shelby AC Cobra.
Try this for me, you must go faster than now with this,only the transmition on your tune.
Do like this:
1:Reset default
2:Final gear 5000
3:select top speed 460
4: select ratio gears
1)2211
2)1535
3)1123
4)0857
5)0679
6)0557
More traction, never loose control.
Tell me later please.
