The End of an Era...R.I.P. Racing Line

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Something I've noticed in the last year, as we've waited for The Release of GT4, is that many of the OLR fanatics have managed to show up at all the major Gran Turismo boards.

Part of this is because of the Board Challenges, part is OLR drivers continuing to search for the next series or spot race, and part of it is finding friends we've all made wandering from forum to forum.

Overall, this has been a good thing for the GT Community. I've tried to do my part to foster good will among the forums, by running in spot races at other forums besides my home at the GTX, and discouraging disparaging remarks that members of one forum may have for another, and encouraging folks to "visit" the other GT sites.

The community suffered a bit of a setback when late last year the owner of the GTF decided to change the charter of that site, from OLR heavyweight and hugely popular social board to a site more focused on his personal interests.

There were some bad feelings, and harsh words, but the GTF membership moved on, thanks to Emion and Schnell, by continuing at the GTX.

Now, another travesty has fallen up the GT Community...

Racing Line has come under new ownership, and it has NOT been a good transition, not for Racing Line nor for the GT Community as a whole.

Many OLR regulars from all the major sites had submitted times to the RL Record database, and participated in discussions, debates, verifications and OLR events at the RL Forums.

The new owner has come in, and is incorporating changes. While this in itself is not a bad thing, the manner in which he has done so leaves much to be desired.

The demise of Racing Line started with an OLR race, using the Tickford at Midfield. Regulars from Racing Line, and from some of the other forums, jumped into this race, and times began to drop.

Then an esteemed member of the Community came up with an unusual, but very effective tuning, that resulted in drastic improvements for all who tried it.

The new site owner, a self professed "tuning expert" dismissed the tuning as garbage, and all who gave approval of the tuning as "cronies crowing".

When presented with the evidence that the tuning was effective, he did not retract his statement, but continued to "dis" the tuning and everyone who used it.

When confronted by the Admin staff of RL about the manner which he conducted himself, things got ugly, and in short order, words were exchanged and folks made regretful statments. This all ended with some of the most esteemed members of Racing Line being not only banned, but having their accounts deleted.

I called the owner out, publically, and demanded he explain his actions. I was told that if I didn't like it, I could "bugger off" and leave as well.

I declined.

To make a long story short, Racing Line, a site I believe we all respect and acknowledge as in important site in the GT Community, has fallen under the hand of an arrogant, self serving despot, who's interest is NOT that of the membership, but only to serve his own ego.

He's even gone as far as saying "Racing-Line is NOT a member of the so-called GT Community as such. It is now a stand alone website, privately owned and operated."

I find this to be an insult to the GT Community, as well as to the members of Racing Line who made it what it was.

I'm hereby encouraging everyone in the Community to boycott Racing Line and the database, and discourage every new GT driver to so as well. GT4 will be out soon, and there are plenty of high quality GT sites that serve the interests of the membership without having to join the "private domain" of the draconian owner of Racing Line.


Note: I have posted this "essay" at all the major GT sites, all with the permission of site owners. I feel this is an issue which is important to the solidarity of the GT Community, whether one visits all the GT sites or not. Please feel free to comment on these events, whether pro or against the decisions made by shifter. I do ask that you refrain from outright flaming of shifter, myself or anyone else involved directly with the incidents that have occured at Racing Line or in the general GT Community concerning this issue.

Since this is the last site I've been waiting to post this thread at, I'd like to take the opportunity to thank all the site owners/admins who have given me permission to post this thread.

Jordan - GTP
Emion & Schnell - GTX
GB24Hours - GTBN
GTWoman - HGT
IForceV8 - GTN
jmr - Racing Point
bobkart - GT3Times
 
They had 896 users. So far, they now have 54.

What shifter doesn't seem to realise is that a site is nothing without the support of it's community. I have just asked for my forums account to be deleted and have just deleted all my times from the database. We'll just have to use GT3Times' database now (shortly to be updated for GT4), unless Jordan has something up his sleeve....
 
I just deleted my times and asked my account to be deleted...

Another reason for Jordan to realise his, or the members, idea to put up a database here!
 
I have to say that I'm still technically a member over there.

I don't really understand what's caused such a ruckus as a lot of the related posts have been 'hoovered up' so I've reserved judgement for now. I do know that a number of racers whose opinions I respect (including NQ and Daan) have ejected themselves from Racing Line so I'm assuming that there is something in this other than a matter of a difference of opinion on how things are run?

Can anyone set the record straight for me (in as non-partisan fashion as possible)?
 
I still have an account over there too.
I had never been on the message board though, only submitting my times.

Since I can't use it less than what I'm already doing, I'll leave everything as is.
BTW, I still can see 897 members in the list and daan your name is still among them.
 
There is a thread showing how many members have replied with an affirmative to the new rules.

These number 54. daan is not amongst them.


But hey, I've been accused of attacking moderators and threatened with a ban for asking the relatively simple question of why a member's post was edited, in contravention of both the new AND old rules, by a moderator. I've been told to "cool off" - which is a laugh, because I'm cooler than the Fonz eating an ice cream. In deep space.


I have nothing against Shifter at all. I've conversed with him a few times. But his choices of moderators leaves a lot to be desired - SandStorm (banned from GTP) and some guy called "DTW" who's been there 18 days and has just over 80 posts. Real experienced, level-headed team there.
 
I havn't been an active participant at the Racing Line forum, but during GTP's extended downtime I browsed around the site for a while and I didn't like the negative attitude that the owner (known as Shifter), put forth. It made me very hesitant as to whether it was a good idea to sign up for their message board.
 
Famine
- which is a laugh, because I'm cooler than the Fonz eating an ice cream. In deep space.
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:lol: Pure GOLD!




But his choices of moderators leaves a lot to be desired - SandStorm (banned from GTP)
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SandStorm? You've got to be kidding me. :scared: No wonder Racing-Line is going down the toilet. With him being a mod their, it was only a matter of time.:dunce:


I've always thought we should have something like what Racing-Line has here at GTP. Me and Jordan have been meaning to discuss this, I suppose now I should expidite the idea.
 
Famine...I applaud your efforts and arguments, but I fear you're you are talking to a wall :P

I'd love to pipe into any one of the "discussions" there, but I've been "deleted" and refuse to register a new account.

As far as the database is concerned, I have it under good authority that the old database will be resurrected at a location to be announced soon ;)
 
"Let us leave this God of Pointland to the ignorant fruition of his omnipresence and omniscience: nothing that you or I can do can rescue him from his self-satisfaction. (Edwin A. Abbott)
 
Famine
and some guy called "DTW" who's been there 18 days and has just over 80 posts. Real experienced, level-headed team there.
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DTW, formerly DadtheWheel, is a fellow who has a number of setups at GTVault. My previous encounters with DTW at GTVault were discussing various setups, and the banning of a member of GTVault. Back then it seems like he was a likeable fellow. But after reading his posts at Racing-Line, it seems his moderator status there has gone to his head.
 
What on earth?....

I'm going to get flamed for this, so the asbestos suit goes on now.

I cannot see an ounce of maturity in most of the flames/posts on the RL site.
(Yes, curiousity killed the cat. But satisfaction brought it back!)

This is nuts. I have only this to say: if you are not willing to be a part of the solution, then you are a part of the problem.

I'm fairly new to the world of GT sites, but I am a longstanding and (I believe) well respected member on several other forums of unrelated theme. I have never seen such mouthing off anywhere! Even this site has its share of people who think its fun to degrade the whole site by posting self opinionated crap.

No matter what anybody thinks anybody else has done, nobody has the right to speak in these sort of manners. It is just plain rude.

Just like anywhere else in the world, a little calm and objective conversation could benefit much.

A little piece of advice: the minute you lose your cool, you lose the fight.
Seven hundred and something people lost theirs.

Yes, the site is supported by its community. Whether you like the admins or not, they are admins. There are other ways to point out peoples' errors that what I see used. What is required is a little patience, maturity and forgiveness.
Starting fights only gets people digging their battle lines.

Why am I going off? Because the way I see it, each of the people who began abusing and flaming and stomping off in a huff are just as bad as the person in question.

I would personally love to see that site come back. So contrary to what anybody else thinks, I'm actually going to register and offer my services.
If the Mod/owner makes mistakes, hey, I can FORGIVE, and I'm willing to take the time to help him fix things up.

If he's wrong, only our support and guidance can make him right. That's where the patience, maturity and forgiveness come in.

If you're offended by this post, I'm sorry, if this is a common problem in the GT community at large, then I think a lot of people need to sit down and have a good long hard look at themselves.
 
As the "instigator" for a call on the boycott, I'll be happy to answer you point-by-point...

avenger
What on earth?....

I'm going to get flamed for this, so the asbestos suit goes on now.

I cannot see an ounce of maturity in most of the flames/posts on the RL site.
(Yes, curiousity killed the cat. But satisfaction brought it back!)

This is nuts. I have only this to say: if you are not willing to be a part of the solution, then you are a part of the problem.
Click to expand...

No intent on flaming you...everyone is entitled to opinion. One of the problems with the "opinions" of what has happened at racing line, is that those threads, for the most part, have been deleted by shifter and his staff.

Since I still see the problem as the new owner and the method which he has chosen to "rebuild' the site...a site that quite a few well respected members of the GT Community helped build...I will continue to argue for the salvation of Racing Line as I see fit.

avenger
I'm fairly new to the world of GT sites, but I am a longstanding and (I believe) well respected member on several other forums of unrelated theme. I have never seen such mouthing off anywhere! Even this site has its share of people who think its fun to degrade the whole site by posting self opinionated crap.

No matter what anybody thinks anybody else has done, nobody has the right to speak in these sort of manners. It is just plain rude.

Just like anywhere else in the world, a little calm and objective conversation could benefit much.

A little piece of advice: the minute you lose your cool, you lose the fight.
Seven hundred and something people lost theirs.
Click to expand...

If you could have seen my posts at Racing Line, before they and my account were deleted, you would have seen that I did not lose my cool with the owner, did not resort to namecalling or rudeness, but instead, asked questioons about his methodology which he was apparently unwilling and/or unable to answer. Now that I can no longer reply there, you'll find quite a few "rude" comments from shifter directed towards those of us who can no longer answer at Racing line, hence one of the reasons I created these threads, with Site Owner permission, at all the major GT Community sites.

FWIW, it was not seven hundred people who "lost their cool" it was more like 10 at the most including the entire Admin staff that ran the site, quite successfully, for the previous owner. And who are all now deleted, not just banned, but deleted from the site they helped make.

avenger
Yes, the site is supported by its community. Whether you like the admins or not, they are admins. There are other ways to point out peoples' errors that what I see used. What is required is a little patience, maturity and forgiveness.
Starting fights only gets people digging their battle lines.

Why am I going off? Because the way I see it, each of the people who began abusing and flaming and stomping off in a huff are just as bad as the person in question.

I would personally love to see that site come back. So contrary to what anybody else thinks, I'm actually going to register and offer my services.
If the Mod/owner makes mistakes, hey, I can FORGIVE, and I'm willing to take the time to help him fix things up.

If he's wrong, only our support and guidance can make him right. That's where the patience, maturity and forgiveness come in.

If you're offended by this post, I'm sorry, if this is a common problem in the GT community at large, then I think a lot of people need to sit down and have a good long hard look at themselves.
Click to expand...

There were many attempts to engage shifter, both in public posts and back channel...in every case he essentially told those who attempted to engage him in rational discussion to "bugger off, if you don't like it, leave"...not a very good leadership quality, to not even discuss complaints held by quite a few well respected members.

I doubt very seriously that he will respond to "support and guidance" at this point.

shifter started this fight, and has even gone on the record (though it probably deleted by now) as saying that Racing Line is not part of the GT Community...those of us supporting the "boycott" are simply indulging him.
 
Fair enough, NQ. I can understand your frustration. Maybe as being somebody on the outside, I haven't seen everything that's gone on.

My post was not directed specifically at you (in fact it wasn't directed at you at all), and I do believe that your posts would have been reasonable. Your initial post here proved it to me.

Again, I can understand if you and many others have lost faith.

Whether or not my input helps at RL, I'll still give it a try. The worst that can happen is nothing. The best... well, who knows.

Looking at Shifter's comments about RL 'not being a part of the GT community', I think maybe he worded that a bit poorly. From my understanding, he was insinuating that he didn't want to be made to go in a way that people from the GT community wanted... That's the best wording for what is in my head, so it'll do.

If he has a reason for it TO be a part of the GT community, then I think things would change.

From what I've heard (since so much is jumbled), RL was being focus shifted to include other motorsport, maybe to the detriment of the GT element? Correct me if I'm wrong.

I think that embracing the larger motorsport world is great, as long as other things aren't completely neglected. There is still room for GT.

Whether any of the lost come back, is not up to me and I can only guess.
All I see is trouble, and my attitude is to fix it without causing extra damage.
If I can contribute to that, then I'll be happy.
 
avenger
Maybe as being somebody on the outside, I haven't seen everything that's gone on.
Click to expand...
At least you got that bit right
avenger
Whether or not my input helps at RL, I'll still give it a try. The worst that can happen is nothing. The best... well, who knows.
Click to expand...
I hope you get the mod status you are after. Good luck
avenger
Looking at Shifter's comments about RL 'not being a part of the GT community', I think maybe he worded that a bit poorly. From my understanding, he was insinuating that he didn't want to be made to go in a way that people from the GT community wanted... That's the best wording for what is in my head, so it'll do.
Click to expand...
That's not even half of it
avenger
From what I've heard (since so much is jumbled), RL was being focus shifted to include other motorsport, maybe to the detriment of the GT element? Correct me if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...
Even if that were true it certainly isn't the root of the problem.
avenger
I think that embracing the larger motorsport world is great, as long as other things aren't completely neglected. There is still room for GT.
Click to expand...
Agreed.
avenger
Whether any of the lost come back, is not up to me and I can only guess.
All I see is trouble, and my attitude is to fix it without causing extra damage.
If I can contribute to that, then I'll be happy.
Click to expand...
Why the sudden interest, you have never bothered before, otherwise you would've been a member there long ago?
 
Sphinx
At least you got that bit right

I hope you get the mod status you are after. Good luck

That's not even half of it

Even if that were true it certainly isn't the root of the problem.

Agreed.

Why the sudden interest, you have never bothered before, otherwise you would've been a member there long ago?
Click to expand...

First of all, I never mentioned anywhere about 'mod status'. That's a bit of an unfair shot. Why? Does that bother you?
Man, even as a 'New Member' I can contribute.

Second of all, why the sudden interest? Because before this point I never even knew RL existed. The only reason I found GTPlanet was a chance encounter during a related internet search. I've never done much online racing because again, I didn't know it was around.

If I had have known about RL or GTPlanet earlier, then yes, I would have been a member long ago.

Now that I see RL, just like GTP, I'm interested in it. I know it's there.

Look, I'm not your therapist. It sounds like you are somebody who has been at RL by the way you are talking. If you have a personal problem with the owner, that's not my business.

I can see that it is pointless going any further. It was probably a mistake even attempting to put in a positive post. Forget it. I'll back out of this forum now.
Sorry I intruded.
 
I'm just trying to work out why you even bothered to post in this thread seeing that you know nothing about TRL. It's not exactly the best method to go about making things right if you are trying to be the hero who want's to "fix it without causing extra damage"

You came here expecting to be flamed for the comments you made. How will that fix anything without causing extra damage?

If you wish to get involved then I suggest you go to TRL and express your opinions there, because that is where the problem is, not here.
 
Sphinx
If you wish to get involved then I suggest you go to TRL and express your opinions there, because that is where the problem is, not here.
Click to expand...

Then why is this thread here?
I suggest you tell every other person who has posted about this here to sod off to TRL as well.

As for going to TRL, don't worry, I will. In fact, I've already been there, and I've received less attitude there than I have here.

If I have to keep putting up with attitudes on THIS site, which I've seen heaps of, I may not be back. Whether you care or not about that, I really am not worried.

Bye.

P.S. Nobody bother replying to this post or any others of mine in this thread, because I'm not coming back to this thread again.
Too much hate mongering, whether justified or not.
 
That "asbestos suit" isn't working very well is it, and you haven't even been "flamed" yet.
 
I got an Email from R/L the other day about re-registering and I thought they were just doing some type of purge of users that were no longer active, so I re-signed. Now, after some poking around and seeing so many well-respected drivers leaving R/L I am doing the same. I do not believe in censorship of the type that has been occurring and would never participate in a website that has Sandstorm, A PROVEN CHEATER HERE IN THE WRS, as a mod. Let all the slow, pathetic ass-kissers and self serving dip5h!T5 have their site. It will be the laughing stock of the GT community and most likely will not last 6 months.:rolleyes:

As soon as I am able to log in I am deleting all my times that are in the database and will post my feelings there. I'm about 99% sure my post will be deleted, however.:p
 
Avenger has no idea what is going on. Shifter started all this crap by Flaming IforceV8 in public. Some of the Deleted Mods took offence and the ball started its trip down the slippery slope. The end result will be a shell of what was once a great web site. Just look at the list of deleted racers.
Pedro
Slowpoke
NoQuarter
Sphinx
DesLim
DoDo
Tosk
Me
Ramon
Robert
Mistral
Need I say more. And any site that has a cheater as a Mod is a joke 👎
Wity will be the next to get the Axe followed closely by Famine and Alavilla.
 
Also Mr P, Daan and Tommy but they requested their deletion :D I never replied to my E-mail and I already removed all my times.

Something fishy about this Avenger guy, all defensive and trying to act grown up... could be non other than SandStorm himself maybe? :lol:
 
GT3mich
Avenger has no idea what is going on. Shifter started all this crap by Flaming IforceV8 in public. Some of the Deleted Mods took offence and the ball started its trip down the slippery slope. The end result will be a shell of what was once a great web site. Just look at the list of deleted racers.
Pedro
Slowpoke
NoQuarter
Shinx
DesLim
DoDo
Tosk
Me
Ramon
Robert
Mistral
Need I say more. And any site that has a cheater as a Mod is a joke 👎
Wity will be the next to get the Axe followed closely by Famine and Alavilla.
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So who is this 'Shinx' guy? With a name like that I'm not surprised he got deleted ;) :lol:
 
:lol: :lol: Wity is the best!! :D

Famine did good too I must say 👍

Which one will be banned first? my guess is Wity, never one to mince his words :D
 
lotus350
Something fishy about this Avenger guy, all defensive and trying to act grown up... could be non other than SandStorm himself maybe? :lol:
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Ha! Funny you mention that. I kind of thought the same thing. But this avenger guy is a bit too well spoken and cool under fire for SandStorm.

I hope that I could pick up on it, I've only banned SandStorm, twice.
 
Those guys on that list are some of the fastest around a track that you'll ever meet. I've run a track and car to my absolute limit and as fast as I possibly can, only to watch those guys shave full seconds off my time.

On topic here, I only had a handful of posts on R-L and it would surprise me that Sandstorm would have deleted my account. I'm fairly certain he holds no love for me. Hey, Boom, if you're lucky, he's already taken care of your account.

It pains me to see a website that has worked real hard and been held up on the shoulders of some of the most reputable people I know of, make such a wrong choice and fall down so quickly. I've seen this happen in the business world where a new person comes in and takes over, only to have their choices simulate a toilet flush.

I'm wondering if they're going to be included in the 9 boards challenge.

AO
 

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