The End of an Era...R.I.P. Racing Line

[sukerkin]

never even heard of a guy named Wity, to think about i don't think i ever heard most of those guys on da list

:hides under the covers: ...

If I were you my friend I'd make it clear you were only joking by the clever use of a smiley or two when making a statement so jaw-droppingly deficient in tact .

I'm not exactly lacking in talent on the race track myself but I doubt I could beat any of the names listed ... anyhow that's not the point. Those chaps are amongst the luminaries of the OLR world and to have them cut out of the site as if an unwanted cancer is not a good sign for RL's future.

 

[CFM]

It's a damn shame, because of the hours and hours we all have spent at one point or another to get a great time, then have a nice place to send it too and get that sweet little green tick for everyone to see. Oh well, at least they will still stand up at GT3 Times.

The new owners love it I'm sure, with all the best drivers gone it sure makes their pathetic times look quite wonderful.

 

[GT3mich]

The new owners love it I'm sure, with all the best drivers gone it sure makes their pathetic times look quite wonderful.

Ain't that the truth! I signed up at R/L last night because that dip **** DTW deleted one of my post's that was supposedly against the new rules. It was an image from the Racing Line DB.

This is what is going on over at Racing Line

 

[Jordan]

What an incredible waste of a great site. I've been watching RL since I first started this community back in early 2000, and to see it go down like this is a real shame. I can only imagine how its original owner must feel, it would be like loosing a part of yourself! Rest in peace, Racing-Line.

 

[Duke]

"Let us leave this God of Pointland to the ignorant fruition of his omnipresence and omniscience: nothing that you or I can do can rescue him from his self-satisfaction." (Edwin A. Abbott)

Oh, my word, somebody else that's read Flatland besides me.

Nobody worry about Avenger being SandStorm. First off, he's held his temper for 4 posts in a row, even if he did leave in a huff finally. That's beyond SS's ability. Plus SS is on IP ban so it would be tough for him to sign up again.

Luckily I have no investment in TRL, because I barely have time to keep up with 2 boards, let alone the 2 others with which I'd like to be actively involved. But the forum I left when I came here suffered a similar (if less catastrophic) fate when it was purchased by one of the two major factions in the citizenry. There was massive decampment of the other faction and much animosity. Fortunately the new owners left the management intact which helped stop the forum from exploding completely.

 

[GT3mich]

Most of you can't view TRL now so here is something for your reading pleasure.
A quote from SandStorm.

Yes, I was banned at another site - that site being GTPlanet - but to me that's water under the bridge. At that site I was a child in all sense of the word - didn't know when to speak, when I was out of line, couldn't resist stirring the pot, didn't know when to keep my mouth shut. I've done a lot of growing up over the past year.

He is trying hard to fill all the holes that DTW and ****ster keep opening up. Its laughable yet still sad really.

 

[Duke]

I do believe SandStorm's working hard to improve himself and the site. I've had much discussion with him concerning coming back to GTPlanet. Unfortunately he burned his bridges here a little too thoroughly, and it will not happen. If he can stem the tide at RL, I wish him luck.

 

[Flerbizky]

I do believe SandStorm's working hard to improve himself and the site. I've had much discussion with him concerning coming back to GTPlanet. Unfortunately he burned his bridges here a little too thoroughly, and it will not happen. If he can stem the tide at RL, I wish him luck.

FWIW - He IS indeed trying to...

And I can second that he HAS done a lot of growing up since his ban from GTP...

 

[CFM]

What an incredible waste of a great site. I've been watching RL since I first started this community back in early 2000, and to see it go down like this is a real shame. I can only imagine how its original owner must feel, it would be like loosing a part of yourself! Rest in peace, Racing-Line.

So we're going to get a time database here at GTP when GT4 comes out, right Jordan?

I'll be more than happy to be in charge of it and take on as much workload as necessary to keep everything in order. I have a few neat ideas if it's even a possibility.

 

[NoQuarter]

CFM, an alternate Hot Lap database site is in the works as we speak, at a location to be announced...this will be a complementary site to GT3Times Race Time/drafting dbase site and will replace the former Racing Line dbase.

BTW, folks...it looks like the Racing Line forums have closed down. Even a registered member there will only see a "General Chat" forum, but when clicked one gets a "Sorry, but only Moderators may view this forum" message...

Perfect timing, with tomorrow being the 1st of October and the deadline for reregistration.

Yeah...that site will be busy...

 

[pedrodaman]

Damn have i been away
I Shocked and sad at the demise of R/L.
I got the same email as everyone else and assumed the same as CFM mentioned (BTW how you doing dude ? long time no hear.)

I've been trying to make sense of everything thats been going on over the past few weeks or months for that matter , i guess all the relevant post's have been deleted.

But judging from what im reading from respected members of the GT community i to will have to boycot RL from now on.
I had some updated times to put up there, but i guess i will be deleting my times instead :sad:
I hope we get another times database up soon..

Oh yeah it looks as though they have deleted or locked all of the forums over at R/L, Opps Noquarter has allready covered that...👍

 

[sUn]

I never used RL, but it's a blow to the GT Community.

 

[CFM]

Damn have i been away
I Shocked and sad at the demise of R/L.
I got the same email as everyone else and assumed the same as CFM mentioned (BTW how you doing dude ? long time no hear.)

Sup Pedro:tup: I've been off the horse for awhile but we're all gearing up for the upcoming Board Challenge #4, GTP is looking for a good finish this year. GT3 Times is the official host site this year so you can check out some progress in a few weeks, and cheer for our victory

Hope everything's been good on your end, keep the rubber side down

 

[pedrodaman]

hey dude been off the horse for some time just started to have a lap or two when GT4P came out.
Looking forward to some GT4 racing, when it comes out in the end.

The R/L forums have been opened up again and they have left most of the threads relating to this crap thats been going on intact.
Now i can have a read through everything and make up my own mind if i should stay.
And not follow the crowd because i have been urged to by others.
To be honest it was wrong of me to say i would "boycot" R/L from what i read from other respected members. a bit of shoot first ask questions later attitude, on my part.

time to go sift through all the post's and then decide my future at R/L

Later

 

[NoQuarter]

It would be completely irresponsible of me to suggest folks boycott RL based on my and a few other members words about what has happened there. At the time I posted this thread at all the various GT sites, many of the threads of dispute were being "hidden" by shifter from public view, leaving those of us on the outside to believe they were being deleted.

Now that the forum have reopened, however, those threads have reappeared in a locked forum, "War Of The Words"...unfortunately, you must be a registered member under the new registration TOS to view these.

Perhaps some of the folks here who have access (pedrodaman?) can look through these and offer additional opinions about what has transpired there.

 

[eggmann]

I can do it, Ed. Below are what I saw to be the most relevant posts related to the goings-on. The thread concerning IForceV8 apparently has been deleted, since the "oldest" thread in that locked forum is the first one I am posting below.

Thread Title: Thanks to all for the support over the years.
Posted 8/14/04

{description from me (eggmann): contains excerpts from the Admin forum}

Hi, sorry to say that due to the present ownership and the kind words from the owner.
I quit RL for good. Read this to understand why.

Racing Line
Compete with the best drivers around the world

Change please

Racing Line Forum Index -> VIP Lounge
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Author Message
Robert
Big Fan!


Joined: 04 Jun 2001
Posts: 2165
Location: uk
Posted: 13 Aug 2004 13:24 Post subject: Change please

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi, I don't need access to the admins forum anymore, as I'm not here to advise or help anymore (just a normal member these days) most of the guys from the better days don't come around much these days or frequent other places, much like myself.
So fix the access thing please, ty.
_________________
Rob

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Shifter
Administrator


Joined: 05 Nov 2002
Posts: 1540
Location: Bundaberg, Qld, Australia (East)
Posted: 13 Aug 2004 19:07 Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fine...we certainly don't need downers like yourself here.
_________________
The ultimate personal transport http://bikerodnkustom.homestead.com/

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Robert
Big Fan!


Joined: 04 Jun 2001
Posts: 2165
Location: uk
Posted: 13 Aug 2004 20:25 Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Shifter wrote:
Fine...we certainly don't need downers like yourself here.

Yup abandon shifters sinking ship, was the only desent thing I could do.
_________________
Rob

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Ramon
Goldjunkie


Joined: 10 Jun 2001
Posts: 1120
Location: Barcelona/Catalonia
Posted: 14 Aug 2004 04:12 Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Shifter wrote:
Fine...we certainly don't need downers like yourself here.


Shifter, you are making friends quickly.
How the hell you can say that to Robert? where's your respect in front of one of the nicest guys I've seen in the GT community? Tolerance, comprehension, cleverness, "savoir faire" are Robert's adjectives and you go and kick his ass saying that.
I was angry about your post about IforceV8 settings but I thought, "he had a bad day", but your reply to Robert really pissed me off, now I see your true person, as you say, you don't need downers in Racing-Line, then count me as another downer, I get my tools and I go away.
See you nevermore.

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Dodo
Extinct & Very Slow


Joined: 03 May 2003
Posts: 703
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posted: 14 Aug 2004 09:43 Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Shifter, I must agree with Ramon!!!

The reason I called Racing Line home was because of all the great people that were / are here, that I like and respect. Ramon is the last of the reasons I came here for, to depart.

With his passing I must also go, and therefore I stand down from the OLR Moderators position.
I don't much like the tone of the place any more either.

Ciao
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dodo.......i think i'll walk

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Robert
Big Fan!


Joined: 04 Jun 2001
Posts: 2165
Location: uk
Posted: 14 Aug 2004 21:09 Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi, thanks for the kind words Ramon & Dodo
Now you know the exact reason I retired.

Once again thanks for all the support past & present guys


cya around guys
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Rob

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cya all friends, supporters plus any I forgot,
email if you need it robisme@hotmail.com

I'll catch you in one of the other sites around sometime.

bye all

Well, I've been expecting this for a long, long, time. Seems to
me you all just needed a reason to leave this fine establishment.

I've nothing much to say except to post from the Moderators
forum that which hasn't been, for the general membership to
view. It is my response to Robert's latest attack on me personally!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

"I know you have a bee in your bonnet about our ownership
of Racing-Line.org. This seems specifically directed at myself
and I know I've made a few blunders. But Andy handed me
the keys as he knew I had the time and guts to make some
much needed changes for the site's future success.

No need for appologies from either of us, people are different
and always entitled to their own opinions. We're both mature
family types (now ) and should be able to communicate each
other's opinions about RL's future in the same mature fashion.

We've both succeeded in staying alive on this crazy planet for
more years than most around here and I'd like to see RL do
the same for as long as I can keep the spirit alive.

For the record, I do value your input, as I do Pedro's and
others who've been involved for longer than I or indeed Shez.
But I won't stand for stubborness, ignorance or arrogance when
it comes to decisions we make about improvements/ change to
RL. Not from anybody....including those who I refer to as the
'Originals'."

------------------------------------------------------------------------

If anyone else wishes to leave Racing-Line, please do not feel
obligated to stay, I want a good and happy crew who are not
afraid of experimentation or change for the future of this site.

You may notify me here, by pmor by private email to
webmaster@racing-line.org

Shifter
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have read the posts that have been entered and agree with
what Shifter has said above, we have copped alot of flak over
ideas that we have put forward for changes to RL. Changes
that we see would be good for the site, changes that Andy had
been discussing with us for a good few months before he
handed it over to us.

Shez

Thread Title: The Gran Turismo Community
Posted 9/17/04

There are quite a few premier sites which make up the GT Community.


GT3Times
GT.de
GTN
GTBN
GT Planet
GTX
HGT

...and, yes, Racing Line.

There used to be a site, considered by many to be the Grandaddy of GT sites, the GTF. But the owner of that site decided to change the charter and direction of the site to a more motorsport oriented site, away from the grass roots of the video game that has brought so many of us together. That was certainly his prerogative, as the site owner, but he forgot one thing...It's the members that make up the site, not the owner nor the owner's "vision" of he wants the site to be.

As it is, activity at the GTF has dwindled to almost complete entropy. From a point where there were as many as 50 new threads, and hundreds of posts a day, and always several people people online, the site is now lucky to get one new post a day, and frequently goes for hours without a member logged in.

This brings us to Racing Line. We're under new management here, and while change doesn't have to be a bad thing, it has certainly been less than optimal. A lot of the acrimony here goes back to the now "infamous" thread concerning a unique tuning by a very well known and respected member of the GT Community, and how that tuning was dismissed by the new owner as "garbage" and "more arse than class" and those who endorsed it where publically chided as being "cronies crowing"

This lead to an escalation of harsh words, and over the next few weeks a schism between some of the folks who made this site (and who are well known and respected in the GT Community at large) and the new owner, and ultimately, the deletion, not banning, but deletion of those same members.

I ask you, shifter, was this the only way to deal with the problems that arose from this event?

I said it before (in a thread that has since been deleted) and I'll say it again, as a site owner, you have the responsibilty to be above such petty actions and find a more diplomatic solution to such problems with the members of this site.

So they got upset and said they were leaving and never coming back. So what. By deleting those acounts you've done several irrevesable things...

You've eliminated the possibility of esteemed members to come back, possibly to apologize, and certainly to contribute to the future of this Forum.

You've broken the links to the past in these memberships, a past of what made Racing Line one of the truely great GT sites.

You've possibly damaged the database...this remains to be seen, but I can tell you from experience at the GTF, where a past Admin deleted all of his posts then all his accounts, that the deletion of accounts and posts is a bad thing for a forum database. Go to any phpBB or vBulletin Tech Support forum and do a search on this.

Finally, you set up the possibilty of making Racing Line a pariah in the GT Community. These departed members are well known at the sites listed above, and though "site slagging" is frowned upon at nearly all the GT sites, it's only a matter of time before the GT Community asks, "What the hell happened over at Racing Line?"

You could have just as easily banned those accounts, which would not effect the database, and left open the possibilty of future reconciliations. As it is now, that bridge is burned, to the water line.

I hope, shifter, you are forthcoming enough to not delete this post and sweep it under the rug. As a member of this Racing Line, I believe the future of this site depends on working these issues out.

Since 2001, guys like Robert, Pedro, eclipsee, foot, hpdrifter, Des Lim, No Quarter, Wity, myself, and hundreds of others have been friends and frequent visitors of Racing-Line. Over the last few weeks, a lot of guys came to RL because GT3Times and GTPlanet went offline. If you are one of them, or you’re just new to the site, and you find yourself in the crossfire here, stop for a minute and consider that many of us have been here regularly for three years. Before Shifter (formerly Daddy Cool) showed up, I might add.

RL was the host of the first Board Challenge, which pitted the major GT boards against one another in a series that was won by the House of GT, another site that went offline for a long time and to this day suffers the consequences. I came to RL from the House and participated in Board Challenges 2 and 3. I have a bunch of times in the database and I even own a record here. You new guys couldn’t possibly know which track my record is on but a few of the old-time users, including those banned and deleted, could probably take a good guess.

I’ve always been on good terms with Shifter, as far as I know. He and I have had several conversations, PMs, and e-mails for the last couple years. I haven’t expressed my opinion (here) about this and I haven’t had contact with Shifter about it, which in and of itself is odd. If I owned a board that was losing its best users left and right, I would probably contact a few and say “my gosh, what am I doing wrong.” Shifter isn’t doing that.

On the contrary, he is being rude to guys like iForceV8, Civic, and Sphinx. He’s running off and disrespecting his own mods, including most recently The Missing Link. Mods volunteer their time and energy to boards for the love of the game and the community. In short, Shifter appears to be turning what was once a “community” forum into a personal kingdom he will use to dismiss people as he sees fit.

It’s Shifter’s domain (literally), he has a right to do whatever he wants with it. But I support NQ’s position.

Dave – I believe this thread is the final opportunity for you to state your position and the direction of the site. You can either say “you’re right fellas, I get it” and turn it around, or just come right out and say “it’s my sandbox and you’ll all play by my rules.” For the record, most of the advice guys like NQ and me are getting is to leave RL for dead.

Since 2001, guys like Robert, Pedro, eclipsee, foot, hpdrifter, Des Lim, No Quarter, Wity, myself, and hundreds of others have been friends and frequent visitors of Racing-Line. Over the last few weeks, a lot of guys came to RL because GT3Times and GTPlanet went offline. If you are one of them, or you’re just new to the site, and you find yourself in the crossfire here, stop for a minute and consider that many of us have been here regularly for three years. Before Shifter (formerly Daddy Cool) showed up, I might add.

RL was the host of the first Board Challenge, which pitted the major GT boards against one another in a series that was won by the House of GT, another site that went offline for a long time and to this day suffers the consequences. I came to RL from the House and participated in Board Challenges 2 and 3. I have a bunch of times in the database and I even own a record here. You new guys couldn’t possibly know which track my record is on but a few of the old-time users, including those banned and deleted, could probably take a good guess.

I’ve always been on good terms with Shifter, as far as I know. He and I have had several conversations, PMs, and e-mails for the last couple years. I haven’t expressed my opinion (here) about this and I haven’t had contact with Shifter about it, which in and of itself is odd. If I owned a board that was losing its best users left and right, I would probably contact a few and say “my gosh, what am I doing wrong.” Shifter isn’t doing that.

On the contrary, he is being rude to guys like iForceV8, Civic, and Sphinx. He’s running off and disrespecting his own mods, including most recently The Missing Link. Mods volunteer their time and energy to boards for the love of the game and the community. In short, Shifter appears to be turning what was once a “community” forum into a personal kingdom he will use to dismiss people as he sees fit.

It’s Shifter’s domain (literally), he has a right to do whatever he wants with it. But I support NQ’s position.

Dave – I believe this thread is the final opportunity for you to state your position and the direction of the site. You can either say “you’re right fellas, I get it” and turn it around, or just come right out and say “it’s my sandbox and you’ll all play by my rules.” For the record, most of the advice guys like NQ and me are getting is to leave RL for dead.

Ok, it is time for me to make my words known, as this is getting beyond a joke guys.


Quote:
No Quarter
You could have just as easily banned those accounts, which would not effect the database, and left open the possibilty of future reconciliations. As it is now, that bridge is burned, to the water line.



Banning these accounts would have had the same impact as it has, as they came back to haunt us anyway, as far as the flak we are copping goes. As for the database, i have checked it and it is sound. As I have said in a previous post elsewhere, some of these guys have come back and re-registered. The bridge was burning before we took over the site and can be rebuilt, but not while people are still attacking us and not allowing us to get onto what we want to do, which is bring the standard of racing-line up.

We are currently discussing the changes to structures of all sections of the site, but with having to answer all these negative posts that are being entered, this is taking us away from concentrating on what we want to do.

Quote:
Richard Pitty

All I'm trying to say here is that generally, a lot of people here seem hot under the collar, not just Shifter! Maybe something is in the water

I plan on sticking with this site, I'm generally an optimist so maybe it'll pick up again.


Yes alot of people are hot under the collar, for what I may ask? Thankyou for your support and we look forward to sharing our improvements with you.

Quote:
Bystander
Looks like Mr Pretty is gunning for 2IC!!

Oh, hey wait dude, you've got something brown on your nose.


Well, this comment is so childish that it just makes me think you are still in primary school. It is comments like this that are bringing down the integrity of the site, it is nothing to do with what we may have done and said. Since you have only just come on the scene, I can only suspect that you are here as a ring in, besides the fact that all of you comments have been in a derogoratory nature, take them elsewhere bystander, we have better things to do. Once again, it is postings like this that are wasting our time and not allowing us to get on with what we and the positive members want us to do.

Jeff, so nice to see such a welcome face again. I have not had much dealings with you, but Shifter has always talked about you and has alot of respect for you. But I feel while I am going, I must make some comments to your posting.


Quote:
RL was the host of the first Board Challenge


We hope once all the wind has died down that this will be once again the case.

Quote:
including most recently The Missing Link. Mods volunteer their time and energy to boards for the love of the game


This has been discussed with Missing Link in private and he has been apologised to regarding this in private. This matter is not and should not be up for public discussion, as it is an issue between us and TML.

Quote:
I believe this thread is the final opportunity for you to state your position and the direction of the site. You can either say “you’re right fellas, I get it” and turn it around,


Yes this is a final opportunity and I certainly hope that this is where it end, but it will only end if people start realising we are here for a purpose and that is to improve racing-line. I myself have not been on the forums much (except in these circumstances when I felt as part owner it is necessary for me to have my say), as I have been TRYING to concentrate on the database, improvements and changes to it and the web pages, lets hope that now those that are negative to what we are doing will leave us alone. Yes we are getting it, and it will be turned around, I would like to hope that, that will start once this post is complete.

Now, I know Shifter has at times been a bit hot headed over his comments, but so have alot of other people on this site, who's comments have just been ignored. But you will please remember that Shifter is not the only owner of this site and I have alot of input into what happens at RL (as do our admins and mods). As already mentioned we are currently reviewing the whole site, how it works, how we want it to work, what changes will be made as far as the whole structure works, including the admin side of it. We have made a few mistakes due to not understanding how the system works, but this has now been rectified in private and that is where it will stay.

Quite frankly as I see it, you all have two choices, stay and help us build RL up to be the best or take your derogoratory comments elsewhere and leave us alone.

For those who are willing to support us in our most exciting endevour For those that just want to bring us down

Shifter wrote:
Geesus H kerist...I'll make another statement and get back to you on
this NQ. Why the hell are you here anyway, thought you were a GTBN
bloke.


Actually, I was GTF bloke (and moderator) and now it is GTX that I call my home forum. But I also consider myself a member of the Gran Turismo Community at large. As a member of the wider community, I'm compelled to call you out on these issues. I've spent a great deal of my "hobby time" working to foster good relationships among the various forums, and I won't lay down become someone steps in and fosters the ill will that you have achieved in your brief time as the new owner.

Shifter wrote:
Yep, there's been a lot of drifters dropping in to have their piece of me and some are just plain arrogant as well. Nothing would have escalated to this point if........

a/ the state of the union/ administration, so to speak, had been made clearer to Shez and I.

b/ Robert hadn't decided to get all personal over my decisions.

c/ Dodo had been more willing to discuss new racing categories instead
of being a stubbon old prick.

d/ drop-ins with nothing better to do had shut their flamin' traps and
let us concentrate on the job at hand.

c/ the GT3 Tuning Guide forums were deleted as they were being
abused for no good reason other than to cause further unrest. The
full guide of old is being revised and will be available in full from the
home page and these forums.


You've certainly displayed your own arrogance as well, specifically with the "wet rag" tuning incident.

You should reconize that people will react adversly to change...this is a common human trait. Couple your arrogance with the tuning incident with the "bugger off" attitude you've displayed and it's no wonder that folks have reacted harshly to your edicts.

These are not the traits of a forum leader that you have displayed. If you think it's acceptable to treat folks like you have, regardless of how they have reacted, perhaps you're not really cut out to be a Site Owner.

As far as the abuse of the deleted forum, it was a vehicle to call to attention this issues, since you seem content to sweep those things under the rug.


Shifter wrote:
The bad karma which has erupted around me is quite astonishing to us both. I'm no stranger to controversy that's for sure, but I've never been one to go out of my way to harrass or attack another user, let alone a member of the GT 'neighboorhood'.


I'll bring up, once again, the tuning incident...your remarks there were totally uncalled for, and an insult to members with a lot more time in the community than you.

Shifter wrote:
I'm sure as hell not going to appologise to anyone here and hope you will finally lay the matter to rest.


Another indication that you are most likely unfit to be a forum leader. A real leader will admit when he's hosed up, and you clearly seem unwilling, in your arrogant pride, to pony up to the fact you have knackered things up.

Shifter wrote:
Those who deserve an appology and my respect have been catered to by personal emails.


You could go a long, long way to healing the wounds of this place by making public apologies. That's what a real leader would do, and a real leader would inherantly recognize this.

Shifter wrote:
Now bugger off ifyou don't like the place, I've a lot
of work to do.


Nice...quality leadership traits there.


Shifter wrote:
Finally, let this go...'no use crying over spilt milk' as they say! Those who belong here or want to be, are more than welcome, those who wish to continue the harrassment are most certainly not and may go
to any of the other sites mentioned in NQ's post.


Despite what you may think, Racing Line is part of the bigger community that is made up of those sites. All of the members you have deleted were already members at those sites and part of the bigger community.

Like I said in the original post in this thread, you are at the precipice of making Racing Line the pariah and the bastard step child of this community, and this site and its rich history does not deserve that.

I'm not about to go away and let this site spiral into the abyss.


edit

I see that Shez was posting while I was, so I needed to add a few things.

I personally don't have any problems with the changes to the site, as far as design and structure are concerned. A new game is coming out, and the "feel" of the site should reflect the excitemet of what is to come.

My beef has been with the "people issues" and in that I find shifter's method of handling things sorely wanting.

Being a site owner is a difficult thing...I understand this, as I have been intimately envolved with administering several sites. The diplomacy neccessary is sometimes difficult to bear, but since a site is for the "members" a site owner must do everything he/she can to maintain a neutral posture, even in the face of abuse or harsh comments from the constituants.

I'm quite privy to some of the backchannel conversations that have occured...no I do not have access to the Mod, Admin, or VIP forums, but many of the folks that did are my friends, so I know there has been a great deal "not said" about this situation.

It's really up to you shifter, to be the bigger person...

Make those apologies public.

Give us a rational explanation of your behavior during the tuning incident.

Show us that you have what it really takes to be a leader in the GT Community, besides the pocketbook to pay for the right of site ownership...

Shez wrote:
Jeff wrote:
RL was the host of the first Board Challenge


We hope once all the wind has died down that this will be once again the case.


At this point, I would'nt be caught holding my breath.

No worries. It's your sandbox. That's crystal clear. I would just like to remind you, Shifter, that you can get away with being a cranky old bastard when you're just another user but when you own the place it's a different story. People have higher expectations of owners, like it or not. And I'm pretty sure that, even though several people have pointed out how you can be and have been rude to others (I believe you would admit that that's true), you probably won't be banning yourself any time soon. I honestly don't think you guys are getting how ownership is different than usership. But, good luck to you.

@Wity...RL has never been perfect, nor have any of the people who frequent it. We've seen many arguments and some fallout. That happens everywhere. But, you have to admit, we haven't seen anything like this here at Racing Line.

........ About 10 or so other posts of varying opinions .....

Final statement from us in this thread!

Racing-Line is NOT a member of the so-called GT Community as such.
It is now a stand alone website, privately owned and operated. We
are not and will not have terms dictated to us by those with
self-appointed or indeed, self-imagined powers. We will be assessing
and prioritising all motorsport sims with equality.

Finally, this is a saved transcript during an online (msn) discussion
with the former owner of this site over this last weekend.....
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Shifter says:
Totally enjoying the challenge, but…

Andy says:
Things were bound to change when you took over, some
people were going to be upset at the new setup, always
happens when sites change hands

Andy says:
partly my fault a I let the other guys run it as they pleased
but now you are taking a strong leadership roll [end quote]
--------------------------------------------------------------

Now, this is how we knew things to be at the Forums and encourages
us to continue our strong leadership roll.

So you'd best be getting used to the idea of NOT having the reigns
or influence you once had
at Racing-Line. My so-called arrogance will continue until such time
strong leadership is no longer required.

I am not going to check the website again for a few days as I do
have more constructive things to look after. You have these few
days to consider your position within our site, stay or leave, it is
up to you.

This thread is now locked!

Shifter and Shez
_________________
Commander Covert Ops Racing-Line.org

 

[eggmann]

It's not quite as readable as the original product, but it's the best I could do.

 

[CFM]

Shifter deleted all of my times from the database without me even asking him too, so he must have been over here and other GT websites looking at what everyone has been saying. What a loser. Just saves me the hassle of posting over there for them to be deleted.👍

I looked at some of the current lap records at a few courses, almost all the times are pathetic. A few of the respectible drivers times still linger. I wonder how much longer they will last.

Have a look at the new TT10 champion, someone had a bit of fun:


http://www.racing-line.org/courseselect.php?PHPSESSID=137a43a39954fa562d8d4527c4d40187&SelectedGame=GT3&SelectedCourse=TT10

I'm pretty sure I know who it is by the time they entered

 

[BigJamesGTI]

How crap is this. I love the times database at RL, its got lots of info its easy to use and in the past it has been a source of great challenges for me.

With everything thats happenned my points have increased and my position on the boards has moved up. (not that its an amazing achievement but Im proud of it)

The issue is that all the racers that I recognise and know that are quicker than me etc ... have gone !! So its almost like being part of a community that I dont really know or recognise anymore, and it makes me think about leaving purely because the quick guys have gone, which is what I guess is the intention of those who have left.

So I dunno what to do ? I'm not leaving as I like the database too much but I, like many others will just have to wait and see what happens, but then again its no good having a database without the fast guys that I have come to know?

Sandstorm.
I used to really like him at GTP and have still kept in touch with him at RL and MSN. From what I know of him he has changed for the better - I remember posts in an F1 series that we ran and then compare them to the stuff he posts now. So good for him, hes a MOD and I wish him all the luck in the world.

Now somewhere in this thread someone mentioned something about GTP having a times database, I think we all know how impressive that would make GTP - I believe with a times database GTP would the the most awesome site for GT.

 

[NoQuarter]

Now somewhere in this thread someone mentioned something about GTP having a times database, I think we all know how impressive that would make GTP - I believe with a times database GTP would the the most awesome site for GT.

From earlier in this thread...

CFM, an alternate Hot Lap database site is in the works as we speak, at a location to be announced...this will be a complementary site to GT3Times Race Time/drafting dbase site and will replace the former Racing Line dbase.

 

[BigJamesGTI]

Good. I kind of meant something at GTP though.

NQ you are anti arcing line aren't you ? Do you mean than that the new database will hopefully replace racing line ?
Do we think that racing line will be somewhere where eventually no-one visits - will it gradually get smaller and smaller then disappear ? I hope not.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

I think what he means is that, this will be a replacement of Racing-Line for those who are dissatisfied with what is going on there.

As for racing-line, it will never be the same. It would take a lot to get members back there. Maybe if there is a new owner....

 

[eggmann]

Regarding the times being deleted from the database (those who didn't request to be deleted anyway)... It seems to be some sort of attack while the owners are off getting married. The hope by those who are still active there is that it will be restored from a database backup once the owners return.

 

[NoQuarter]

BigJames, I am not Anti-Racing Line...I've put in a tremendous amount of time at the database (my times deleted by choice) and have spent numerous hours hanging out with the former members there, as well as the few decent chaps that remain...

What I am is decidedly Anti-Racing Line Administration...shifter, shez, DTW and Sandstorm. None of them have any business running a site with the esteemed history of Racing Line. As long as they are running Racing Line, I see no hope for the future of that site. shifter is on the record proclaiming the site is not a part of the GT Community. Now that the site can be viewed only if one registers after agreeing to the new draconian TOS, I doubt if many new folks will be joining. Would you join a site, sight inseen? I fear the only possible hope for RL is if shifter/shez decide to throw in the towel and sell it.

The new database I've described will replace Racing Line as the pre-emminent, non-drafting Hot Lap database...as soon as it's out, I'm sure all will see why.

Sure it would be great if Jordan could start a database here, it's just that the new database is 95% complete, and as I'm sure Jordan will atest, launching a database requires a huge amount of work.

 

[BigJamesGTI]

No probs NQ

So its a good job I've saved my replays in the Poly then !!

Let us know then when this new database is up and running and hopefully it'll take off and be as good as RL - its a shame though that I say that but if all the quick guys are over there and not at RL then ............

 

[CFM]

NQ, who is in charge of development of the new database? I'd like to offer help if I can and also had an idea that might make it easier to keep the database free of false times.

 

[NoQuarter]

The developer has asked not to be revealed at this time, but I can tell you it is a very reputable person who runs another well established GT site...

Hopefully, the database will be up and running within the next week or so...at that time, I'm sure this person will appreciate any input for improvements.

 

[Ryen49]

man its sad how people can come in and just **** up stuff. Hopefully Kerry doesn't do that eh?

 

[Duke]

man its sad how people can come in and just **** up stuff. Hopefully Kerry doesn't do that eh?

Watch the language, please, and we have an Opinions board for the political content.

 

[pedrodaman]

Hello again
It looks as though my mind has been made up for me.
All my times on the database have been deleted as has my member status over at R/L.

I guess thats what i deserve for not getting involved in the first place, or maybe i did, maybe sandstorm had something to do with it.
I was one of the first people along with a few others that branded him a cheat in the early days of the weekly.
I guess he still holds a grudge against me or it could be he's on a power trip with his moderatorship.

OH well no loss to me...