GT4 as a Racing Pre-school For Me?

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NSX-R

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As a high school student, a car enthusiast with no licence and no money, I don't want to look, or drive like an idiot on the track in the future. Because of the financial barrier, lack of sourse of good cars, and crappy location (no track anywhere near), I turned to GT4.

I've purchase a Playstaion 2 and a Driving Force Pro to enhance the essense of Gran turismo with no aids and N2s. However, I am troubled. With all of those opions, "studies", videos flowing on the internet, I am doubting GT's realism :guilty: . Obviously, we cannot hold "No 360 degree vision", "No feeling of G force and fear", "Stupidiest AI" and "Real Life concequences" against GT, because, a video game just cannot deliver that much.

I'd really, DESPERATLY, want your opions on GT's DRIVING(meaning no AI, it's just you, car and the track) dynamics. Can it ruin my muscle memory? Can it make me became a better tracker(not every-day driving), or is it just a waste of time(Sorry, I consider fun as a waste of time)?

Please, your comment will be treasured and greatly apperatiated! My future racing life is in your hands!
 
Probably the only thing you could "learn" is getting and idea where the "line" is on a track. For the most part its just for fun. There are race school that will teach you how to drive your own car to its limits. Racer Factory is a good school. I doubt being really good at GT4 will translate to being a good racer. Way too many variables in real life.
 
NSX-R
As a high school student, a car enthusiast with no licence and no money, I don't want to look, or drive like an idiot on the track in the future. Because of the financial barrier, lack of sourse of good cars, and crappy location (no track anywhere near), I turned to GT4.

I've purchase a Playstaion 2 and a Driving Force Pro to enhance the essense of Gran turismo with no aids and N2s. However, I am troubled. With all of those opions, "studies", videos flowing on the internet, I am doubting GT's realism :guilty: . Obviously, we cannot hold "No 360 degree vision", "No feeling of G force and fear", "Stupidiest AI" and "Real Life concequences" against GT, because, a video game just cannot deliver that much.

I'd really, DESPERATLY, want your opions on GT's DRIVING(meaning no AI, it's just you, car and the track) dynamics. Can it ruin my muscle memory? Can it make me became a better tracker(not every-day driving), or is it just a waste of time(Sorry, I consider fun as a waste of time)?

Please, your comment will be treasured and greatly apperatiated! My future racing life is in your hands!
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never compare driving in a video game than in real life.
 
NSX-R
Isn't it a "simulator"?
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Yeh, I'm kind of with you on that... for normal driving (road driving), GT aint ever going to help, but circuit driving may be a different matter... I have a DFP (wheel) , and the lessons you learn about braking, steering and generally driving smoothly, really translate well from the circuit to GT4... they've done a very good job... all I'd say is that perhaps GT4 doesn't prepare you for real driving, but it simulates it very well..
 
Well, If you are able to do 20 laps without touching the walls, doesn't that prepare me for real life lapping if GT simulates well?
 
NSX-R
Well, If you are able to do 20 laps without touching the walls, doesn't that prepare me for real life lapping if GT simulates well?
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Nope, its just a game man. If you really want to drive/race cars.....go to a real school with real cars. Have fun with the game but dont think just because you got gold on your licence's in the game that it makes you any better on the real road/ track.
 
NSX-R
Well, If you are able to do 20 laps without touching the walls, doesn't that prepare me for real life lapping if GT simulates well?
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you wont become a real racing pro by playing GT4, i can assure you that. a video game is a video game.
 
Hehe, there is a big difference between driving in GT4 and driving in real life. But! GT4 is a suitable substitute if you have no ability to actually drive a car in real life. And it's definitely better than nothing. It's certainly not going to make you a worse driver, and it will definitely help with your reaction times, learning how to learn a track (yes that makes sense), and learning to drive smoothly/correctly. Assuming you drive smoothly/correctly in GT4. However, there is still that huge "seat of your pants" difference between any video game and real life that you mentioned. But I can definitely see it helping a good bit. Kind of depends on how much you know and how good you are already, as you can only learn so much from a game :)
 
NSX-R
Isn't it a "simulator"?
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Yes it is a simulator but only in the sense that they have attempted to translate the cars' physics and attitudes to the screen as opposed to many video "games" which disregard these real life forces for the purpose of making the game more interesting. PD has done a really good job of displaying not only the essence of line driving and tuning subtlties, but also done well at differentiating between different cars and their behaviours. In that vein, yes it is a simulator.

That being said, and please take no offence at this, it is utterly idiotic to assume that GT4 or any other game, simulator or computer program can help prepare you in any way become a race car driver. Until you sit your backside in a seat and feel the forces acting upon you as you travel through a course, nothing will teach you any more than theory about what you are getting into. Any thought that a video game of any kind will help you when your tires suddenly become frictionless on the tarmac is a good way to commit early suicide. This kind of thinking has probably already contributed to the deaths and or serious injuries of dozens or hundreds of kids your age who thought that GT had prepared them to drive like maniacs on the streets and highways of their home towns.

You may think that I am overstating the point or being an alarmist. I am not. Your question, and the fact that you (and many others) have thought it, let alone posed it, scares the holy living s-h-i-t out of me. Do yourself a favour. First, get a license and drive a real car before deciding to become a race car driver. Second, drop any ideas about Gran Turismo preparing you for the road or track in any way, shape or form and take some real lessons from a real driver before you kill yourself and your friends, or an innocent person, by thinking you can throw a car around like it's a toy. Read the disclaimer as your game boots up next time. NEVER play this GAME in real life is the gist of it. It's not meant to be real.

Call me what you want. I'm seriously just trying to save your life. Please listen.
 
GT4 can teach you the theories, but won't help you put them into practice - you'll need real world experience for that.
It can teach you correct lines, and the theories of what causes under and oversteer, and how to correct these, but only real life experience will help you in a real world situation.
Turn it around the other way - Do you think a good driver in real life would be able to jump straight into GT4 and kick arse. No. He'd probably pick the game up quicker than a novice, but even he has to pracice and get used to it. It's the same going from game to real life. You might be crap to start with, but you'll pick it up quicker... :)

In answer to the question "GT4 as a Racing Pre-school For Me?", it probably is a good Pre-School, ie: before racing school. Kinda like doing homework or research I guess...
 
I kinda covered this in another thread. Basically, use GT4 to teach yourself racing theory. How a car behaves under different circumstances, the way different drivetrains behave (and misbehave *cough*MR*cough*), and how out-in-out can be applied in different kinds of corners from long sweepers to decreasing radius. Don't expect this to make you anywhere near as competent as someone who's been doing AutoX for a while, or anyone else who has track time. It won't. But it will make you much better than other beginners because you'll have a better feel for what kind of racing line would be the fastest in a given situation and what a car will do once you start to cross the line between control and lack thereof.
 
If you want to learn how to drive street cars on tracks, try netKar or Live for Speed on the PC. If you want to learn how to try racecars on tracks, try GTR, Grand Prix Legends or an F1 system (don't know of any good one). Practically the only thing GT4 is good for in terms of racing is learning the lines, tracks and improving your concentration in endurance races. Still one great game though :) I really like the nbring..
 
above 2 posts are very true. do you know how it feels traveling 200+ MPH? sure I can drive average 220+ MPH on the superspeed way. do you think I can actually drive a F1 on the indy500 course? man it will scare the **** out of me :dopey:
 
Juan Pablo Montoya (F1 Driver) impressed everybody in his rookie session with his knowledge of tracks he'd never been to and his lighting fast reflexes thanks (in his own words) to his obsessive playing of F1 racing games.


But he was already a very good driver. What you get from this racing games is 'seat time'. A good race driver needs to practice practice practice and keep his reflexes in shape. But practice cost money and many competitions have limits on how much testing and non race driving you can do. So they turn to other sports or work as test drivers for other teams in different catergories to keep "race fit"


As far as the theory goes I disagree with those that say you can learn it in GT4. You need to get the theory from real racing instructors. Get yourself a copy of "Going Faster" by the Skip Barber School. You can use GT4 to practice and internalize the concepts but other games like the F1 series and TOCA are much better suited for that.
 
Of course, I won't drive like a maniac at all, I would probably cruise around the track and conservatively increase the speed, and I would be alone(cannot take too much responsibilities).

I have some friends who hold this idea even stronger than me, see if I can get throught their thick skulls...
 
How can you simulate adrenaline rushes, fear of death, and the real sensation of speed? I don't think any simulator would prepare you for real life, other than by learning how tracks look.
 
What about throttle control, threshold braking, counter-steering, human-ABS, etc. I learned those things in GT, otherwise, I would pay a LOT more to learn these techniques.
 
its only a game guys.
at the most it'll teach about lines. but real world driving has far too many irregularities to be put in this game with out sacrificing the fun factor.

anyone who is using this game as a stepping stone to racing or even driving is probably fooling themselves to some degree.
sorry, but thats the truth (according to me).

youd be better off getting your licence and going to a track (real one).
 
I have a question. How much better does gt4 'simulate' with cars equiped with n-tires?

btw nsx I tried driving a car with no experiene except for gt series, and it reallly didn't turn out too well ;]
 
ving
its only a game guys.
at the most it'll teach about lines. but real world driving has far too many irregularities to be put in this game with out sacrificing the fun factor.

anyone who is using this game as a stepping stone to racing or even driving is probably fooling themselves to some degree.
sorry, but thats the truth (according to me).

youd be better off getting your licence and going to a track (real one).
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:bs: Someone on here was saying in another thread how it helped them when they started participating in their Corvette at autoX events. This game can be used as a tool, as long as one realizes that it IS a game and there ARE limitations to what you can learn from it.
 
Teh_Loserer
:bs: Someone on here was saying in another thread how it helped them when they started participating in their Corvette at autoX events. This game can be used as a tool, as long as one realizes that it IS a game and there ARE limitations to what you can learn from it.
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LOL, we need s :bs: smilie! :)

like I said you can learn about racinglines and such. Its very limited. even with driving aids off the cars are only like 70-80% what they are like in RL.
look I know you can learn stuff but as a preliminary learning tool I'd say go get some real lessons.
there is no way I personally would go straight from GT to the track with no previous experience. :)
 
ving
LOL, we need s :bs: smilie! :)

like I said you can learn about racinglines and such. Its very limited. even with driving aids off the cars are only like 70-80% what they are like in RL.
look I know you can learn stuff but as a preliminary learning tool I'd say go get some real lessons.
there is no way I personally would go straight from GT to the track with no previous experience. :)
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I certainly would. An autoX track? Just a local, beginner level SCCA cone course? SURE! YOU BET YOUR @$$! What better place to go? Those of use still posting here seem to be intelligent enough to realize that GT4 will NOT make you a racer. Period. I don't think anyone would say it did. But I'd definitely recommend it as a training aid for someone who's thinking about it. Like a preliminary to taking a class or going to an event or something. And yah, I got the :bs: smiley from another board I post on, FordPower.net Looks like this:
bs.gif
 
fair enough :)

thats a great smilie, we need it here :D
 
Fool! Learn to crawl before you run!

Assuming you have never actually driven a car prior to this and in traffic, nothing can prepare you for real driving other than a good driving teacher, time behind the wheel and your head screwed on right!

What I am saying is that you shouldn't even think of racing before you can drive confidently in public roads among thousands of drivers of different experiences and mentality. Track driving and racing for that matter requires a strict regime of training and honing of the senses. Most race drivers start out young in racing go-karts and build their competition skills and attitude from young and the principles behind racing. Its not something you just happen to like and decide to go out to a store and buy. Catch my drift?

Now, if you are seriously interested in starting career, the sport you could start doing in go karting. It does not require a license, its affordable if you eat less fast food, and it is sure as hell to teach the participant about feedback, control, lines and that all so important 'seat in the pants' feeling.

Only after you have started driving can a game like GT4 help you in contributing to your knowledge of skills of cars.

Otherwise for now since you have already bought the whole set, just enjoy the game and find out the differences between cars in the context. It will be both fun and investigative don't you think?
 
ving
thats a great smilie, we need it here :D
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Werd. Who do we petition? I can think of a few from FordPower that would go here pretty well.

We have:
:3gears:
3gears.gif

:burnout:
burnout.gif

and :ttiwwop:
ttiwwop.gif
 
Skant and a few others have found it useful hopefully they will see the thread and comment.

It may be that at some tracks it will help find a racing line but I would still be careful.

For example if you need to brake 100m out from a corner in a given track in GT4 I would start at 120m in real life just to be on the safe side.
 
What about throttle control, threshold braking, counter-steering, human-ABS, etc. I learned those things in GT, otherwise, I would pay a LOT more to learn these techniques.
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Congratulations, you learned what each of these things are. However, considering you do not even have a license, I'm gonna go ahead and say that you probably couldn't get in any car right now, let alone one with a manual transmission, and in order(of each of the ADVANCED skills you mentioned): accelerate smoothly from a stop, brake to the best of any cars ability, let alone one without ABS, successfully navigate many turns on the street without hitting a curb, or lifting just enough to have ABS shut off. As was said before, the fact that you think you know each of these skills just from playing a game is scary. I play a lot of Madden Football and Grand Theft Auto on playstation, so obviously I could play in the NFL and make a pro bowl my first season, or succesfully gun down hundreds of people with my sniper rifle, right? :dunce: As far as starting out with racing, you need to learn basic skills first. Owning a car and a drivers license is generally one thing. I started out by going to a young drivers education school at Mid-Ohio(a well known track in ohio)the weekend i got my license. Did we get on the track once? NO, OF COURSE NOT!!! We learned BASIC car control, such as emergency avoidance, and wet and dry braking. When i turned 18, i started attending drivers schools(on track) with Porsche and BMW club. I of course do not have either a porsche or bmw, but they allow other cars if you are a member. For these sessions, which are usually an entire weekend, from 7 in the morning to 6 at nite, you spend time both in the classroom learning technique and control, and also spend time on track with an instructor in your car helping you out. There is no racing involved, it is simply to learn your own limits and those of the car you are driving. There is passing only in designated straights, and if you are pushing the car beyond your limits, your instructor will yank you off the track so quick your head will spin. There are steps to take to become a race car driver. GT4, while an excellent simulation, is not one of those steps. Sorry for the long post, but it really pisses me off when people think a game is a substitute for actual learning.
 
I play Gran Turismo since GT1 came out, I have a license for 20 years now. I play GT4 and other racing games with the DFP.

Past wednesday (1st June 2005) I was able to drive a Porsche carrera 997, 325bhp, race tune for the first time in my life on "zandvoort" a former dutch Formula1 circuit.

It is nothing like a videogame. (and that was a pity, I hoped GT4 / enthusia would be closer)

The only thing these games might teach you :

racing lines
to be smooth to be quick

Have fun playing games though!
 
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