**Interest Check: Historic Trans-Am Series**

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Historic Trans-Am Series

Following the sucess of yourlocalgod's SCCA WTCC series i'm propossing a similar series based on the popular Trans-Am racing series that took place between 66' & 72'

There is an actual 'Historic' Trans-Am racing series which runs mainly in California and sticks closely to the original format: http://www.historictransam.com/homepage.htm

Now considered as a 'Club' racing series - rather than a 'Professional' series as it was originally run, this OLR version will be a more laid-back affair. The series will be run in Arcade Mode - giving us greater flexibility in potential race length, yet giving no room for those with good tuning ability to have an advantage. The cars although on paper have vastly different abilities, will be tuned using the Quick Tune menus to equalise their performance. These settings will be set in stone before the series starts and all cars will have to run to them.

Keeping with the historic club racing theme there will be no driver aids aloud - this helps the lower powered Euro/Japanese which won't suffer the traction problems that the US V8's do. When i tested all the cars originally, there was only a 2 second per lap gap between the quickest and slowest cars on the Infineon 'Stock Car' circuit. During say a 6-lap race the slight performance advantage that the V8's have over the Inline 4's will be reduced by the smaller cars 'drivability' This is further helped by the fact that the Alfa, BMW and Nissan/Datsun will run on Sports 'soft' tires as opposed to the Sports 'medium' tires that the V8's have to use.

Before the series starts i'll finalise the 'equalising' settings for each car and publish on this thread the definative weight and power figures for each car.

Depending on interest i'll aim to have 3 cars per team using these 8 cars which either ran in the Trans-Am series, or are close enough to be considered relatively authentic. This will give us a manageable grid of 24 cars.

Here is the list of available cars:

- Alfa Giulia Sprint GTA - Won the first ever Trans-Am race at Sebring.
- BMW 2002 Turbo - Competed as a 2002, but close enough.
- Nissan Bluebird 1600 SSS Rally Car - The same (or similar) shell ran as a Datsun 510
- Shelby 65' GT350R - Ran in 'notchback' form, but close enough.
- Mercury Cougar XR-7 - Bud Moore/Dan gurney car.
- Plymouth Cuda 440 - Ran by Gurney's ARR team.
- Dodge Charger 440 R/T - Near enough to the Challenger that originally run.
- Chevy Camaro Z/28 - Famous Penske cars that filled plenty of grid spots.

I'm aiming at a 7 race series, running in a similar format as the SCCA WTCC series ie as much testing as you like (time trial, not against opposition) followed by a weeks 'window' where competitors can set a race time, each lap time plus final race time - but on a 'one try only' basis which every one seems happy with. Usual OTR rules will apply.

Tracks have not been finalised as yet - but these look the most likely, due to the fact that the actual series either uses them, or they are close in style to others that are used:

- Infineon full circuit
- Laguna Seca
- Yosemite
- Grand Valley East
- Seattle
- Autumn Ring
- Infineon stock car circuit

Races will be between 4 & 10 laps in length.

I've not set any dates for this series yet, I'll wait to check interest first. If any potential clashes are forseen by anyone who is interested than the dates can be probably worked around them.

So if anyone fancies themselves as a bit of a George Follmer, Mark Donohue, Sam Posey, Dan Gurney, Parnelli Jones or Jerry Titus - then sign up and let the fun begin!

Heres the entry list so far...

TheCracker - Cougar XR-7
Luxy - Alfa GTA
Icemanshooter23 - Shelby GT350R
Kennythebomb - Shelby GT350R
Duke - Plymouth Cuda
Sjaak68 - Nissan 1600 SSS
Nurburgring - Cougar XR-7
MachOne - Camaro Z/28
1989therat - 2002 Turbo
Slicks - Camaro Z/28
Dudley (GTX) - 2002 Turbo
Enzo Guy (GTX) - Plymouth Cuda
yourlocalgod - 2002 Turbo
Barbol - Nissan 1600 SSS
M31 - Cougar XR-7
Foamy302 - ShelbyGT350R
SilverStang - Dodge Charger R/T
Schrodes - Camaro Z/28
geeTeye - Alfa GTA
microrcdude - Dodge Charger R/T
Jetboys427 - Plymouth Cuda
 
I'll take a spot in the Alfa Romeo :) ... Look out V8's here's comes my 115hp monster! :lol:
 
Luxy
I'll take a spot in the Alfa Romeo :) ... Look out V8's here's comes my 115hp monster! :lol:
Click to expand...

...make that a 136hp monster :sly:

nice one Luxy 👍
 
Just had another thought ... maybe we could have some points for the fastest practice lap? 3pts for fastest, 2pts for second fastest, 1pt for 3rd fastest? Just to spice it up a little bit?
 
I'm interested 👍. The Shelby Gt350 looks good to me :sly:

Edit: Luxy and I will be teaming up for this one 👍
 
Luxy
Just had another thought ... maybe we could have some points for the fastest practice lap? 3pts for fastest, 2pts for second fastest, 1pt for 3rd fastest? Just to spice it up a little bit?
Click to expand...

Thats not a bad idea, i had thought of awarding an extra point to any Class B car (Alfa, BMW, Datsun) acheiving a overall win.
 
"I'm interested . The Shelby GT350 looks good to me"

Ditto! Hit me up on this with that Shelby.

1 question.

Do I NEED teammates?
 
Depending on when you elect to run, please sign me up for an AAR 'Cuda. If it doesn't seem like I'll have time to get into it, I'll withdraw and leave the seat open for someone else.
 
I'm interested.
I like the tracks you have chosen.

The Nissan Rally car,please.
 
I'm in with the Mercury... It will be fun!

But the tracks have to be shorts (because of the short ratio gearbox)!
 
Kennythebomb - You don't need team mates - all enteries are 'privateers'

nurburgring - I've driven all the cars on most of the tracks, and although the Mercury is short geared, it ends up all equal since its so strong 'out-of-the-box'. Some cars will be stronger than others on certain tracks - but thats the fun of club racing for you!

Duke - like i said in the original post, i'm quite happy to fit the races around when it suites most people, just tell me when you will or won't have time and i'll see what i can do - same goes to anyone else.

This is ment to be a fun series, i'll try and be as flexible as possible around race dates, since its not a 'team' series if someone can't post a time, then they'll just get a 'DNS' - it won't effect anyone else and it won't stop you from competing at the next race either.
 
Im definetly interested.Put me down for the Camaro SS.It just sucks im going to be doing burnouts into 3rd gear because i use a DS2 :lol:
 
Luxy
I'll take a spot in the Alfa Romeo :) ... Look out V8's here's comes my 115hp monster! :lol:
Click to expand...
Good luck, man!

My money is on the Alfa. Not because I think it has an advantage but just because I like it.

I'd drive the BMW, but I'm already busy with a race series. Maybe next time.
 
I'd be interested..
Just out of historical correctness, it was the Z/28 Camaro that ran in the Trans Am series, not the SS 350.
Either way, I'd be interested in driving either a Z/28 or a 'Cuda 440.
 
kennythebomb - Like i said in an above post, i'd like to hear from everyone whose entred to find out whens the best time for anyone else, i'm totally flexible myself so could start it whenever. My only problem at the moment is that i have no Nissan 1600SSS rally car in my GT4 garage - i've not managed to win the 5 lap ice race that you get it from so i can't finalise the 'arcade' settings for it.

Slicks - i realise that its the Z/28 that they ran in the original series, but when i test drove all the cars in Arcade Mode, it was only the SS 350 that i had available - maybe thats all i had in GT Mode?

Take your pic between the Camaro and the Cuda (you can always change later as long as the 'slots' are still free) - and i'll ad you to the list 👍
 
Eh, it's going to be a while till I can run a weekly series - like September, probably, after the SWTC wraps up. If it starts before then I'll volunteer my AAR 'Cuda to someone who eill put her to good use.
 
Sorry, but due to work-vacations travel in Europe, I'm gone (and I wont touch my GT4 DFP!)until the first of august. It would be great if you can wait until the eight of august to let me do it.

I would prefer N2 (V8) and N3 tires for more realitic times... :)
 
I think racing slick tires would be more accurate than Sports tires. However, the idea to put the softer tires on the less powerful cars is a good idea. I think we should run in the Racing Hard to Racing Super Soft area.
Also, will we be running cars from Arcade mode, or will we be using GT Mode? Using GT Mode would cost some $$, but you then could tune other aspects of your car other than just power and weight. Brakes and a 1-way differential are badly needed on almost all the cars, especially if the power is increased.
 
No, the racing tires are way too grippy to simulate the old bias ply donuts they used to run. I think Sports tires are a good compromise.

Yes, he said the races were being run in Arcade mode using Quick Tune to equalize the cars a bit.
 
TheCracker
kennythebomb - Like i said in an above post, i'd like to hear from everyone whose entred to find out whens the best time for anyone else, i'm totally flexible myself so could start it whenever. My only problem at the moment is that i have no Nissan 1600SSS rally car in my GT4 garage - i've not managed to win the 5 lap ice race that you get it from so i can't finalise the 'arcade' settings for it.

Slicks - i realise that its the Z/28 that they ran in the original series, but when i test drove all the cars in Arcade Mode, it was only the SS 350 that i had available - maybe thats all i had in GT Mode?
Click to expand...

Starting it within a couple weeks would be nice.

Buy the Z/28 in Gt mode and it will appear in arcade.
 
The series will probably run in arcade mode - its so much easier to run races on the circuits and the lengths you want. I would have prefered to run in GT mode and modify the cars more (Trans-Am cars were highly modified from their road going counter parts) but it could make things very complicated.

Period Trans-Am cars ran with 'racing' tires, much like my LC does now - they are cross-plys, but of a softer compound than even the 'track-day' style tyres that top end Elises and Exiges have as standard equipment. I believe the GT4 'sports' tyres are ment to represent tires like Yokohama's A048R which you could get 5-6k miles of road and track use - compared with the single season, eight x 15 lap races and practise sessions we get out of a set of Dunlop 'L' and 'M' Section 'Historic' tires.
Therefore i reckon that the 'hard' racing slicks are probably the closes to what the Trans-Ams actually run - plus its the best way to get better performance from a car in arcade mode. Giving the lower powered cars soft tires helps with equalising their performance - I've had to run the Alfa GTA at maximum HP and minimum weight to put it even in the same ball-park as a de-tuned Shelby GT350R.

I'd prefer the cars to handle a bit better than a standard road car - it is ment to represent a real race series after all. But I would'nt like to completely knock out all of the 'historic/vintage feel' when driving these cars - 4 wheel drifts through the appex, wheel-spin out of the slower turns etc - letting people tune the cars in GT Mode could eliminate this aspect.

Running in Arcade Mode takes away the 'tuning' aspect that could give some an advantage, hopefully this more casual format will attract more entries.
 
The problem with running in GT mode, especially with Racing tires, is that there are very few GT mode series or races that are more than 5 laps, and/or allow a road car to use racing tires.

There's basically the Tuner Car Championship in Professional Hall, and a bunch of unrestricted free-for-all's with LMP cars. There's a few more if you've got Extreme Hall unlocked, but many (most) people haven't gotten that far in the game. Or you can do Family Cup races, but they can only be 2 laps which is too short to be much fun. Or you can use Track Meets, but then there's no tire wear, there's no real start or finish, and you can't adjust the AI difficulty. Basically, it's a real pain just to find a decent race.

In arcade mode, we lose a bit of tuning ability, but we gain the ability to have much more enjoyable races. If we were allowed to tune the cars in GT mode, the muscle cars would stomp everything else, just by changing the transmission. It would be more complicated and more time consuming (i.e. less fun) for everyone to make all the cars competitive. Part of the fun of classic cars is that they don't have 'modern' performance.
 
TheCracker
The series will probably run in arcade mode - its so much easier to run races on the circuits and the lengths you want. I would have prefered to run in GT mode and modify the cars more (Trans-Am cars were highly modified from their road going counter parts) but it could make things very complicated.

Period Trans-Am cars ran with 'racing' tires, much like my LC does now - they are cross-plys, but of a softer compound than even the 'track-day' style tyres that top end Elises and Exiges have as standard equipment. I believe the GT4 'sports' tyres are ment to represent tires like Yokohama's A048R which you could get 5-6k miles of road and track use - compared with the single season, eight x 15 lap races and practise sessions we get out of a set of Dunlop 'L' and 'M' Section 'Historic' tires.
Therefore i reckon that the 'hard' racing slicks are probably the closes to what the Trans-Ams actually run - plus its the best way to get better performance from a car in arcade mode. Giving the lower powered cars soft tires helps with equalising their performance - I've had to run the Alfa GTA at maximum HP and minimum weight to put it even in the same ball-park as a de-tuned Shelby GT350R.

I'd prefer the cars to handle a bit better than a standard road car - it is ment to represent a real race series after all. But I would'nt like to completely knock out all of the 'historic/vintage feel' when driving these cars - 4 wheel drifts through the appex, wheel-spin out of the slower turns etc - letting people tune the cars in GT Mode could eliminate this aspect.

Running in Arcade Mode takes away the 'tuning' aspect that could give some an advantage, hopefully this more casual format will attract more entries.
Click to expand...

Well said. You finally convinced me completely! 👍
I hope you'll start this races after the first of august.
I'll enjoy it for sure. :)

Waiting for the final setup (power and weight, am I right?)...
 
I had given thought to this, and in my "Hybrid & Cheats" memory card I have bought most of the pony cars that had competed in Trans-Am from 1966-1972.

Trans-Am of that era had two classes based on engine sizes. One class raced everything with engines less than 2 liters, and the big-boy class had a displacement limit of 5 liters (5000 cubic centimeters or 305 cubic inches). Both classes were on the track at the same time, so there was a lot of wishing that the < 2L guys would get out of the way; hah hah. As of 1970 the displacement limits went up (I believe to 350 cubic inches), so race teams opened things up a bit more.

This early displacement limit is why the Z/28 raced in the Trans-Am series and the SS did not. The Z/28 was created specifically for Trans-Am racing. General Motor's 302 is a hybrid block. Their 302 shares the same 4" bore (and consequently block) as the 327ci & 350ci V-8 engines. It just uses the 3" crank from the 265ci & 283ci V-8 engines to give it a 4" bore x 3" stroke. 4*4*3*0.7854*8 gives us 301.5936 cubic inches. That formula is: bore * bore * stroke * 1/4th of Pi * the number of cylinders. It works for finding cubic centimeters too, just use centimeters as the bore and stroke numbers.

Now GT4 is sweet! They incorporated muscle cars again. There's only one problem- As far as the 5L displacement is concerned, only the Camaro Z/28 and the Shelby GT350 are the only ones truly legit if we are to be true to form. This creates a conundrum when it comes to allowing larger engines into the GT4 series. Those Mopars with 440 cubic inch engines are beasts as far as torque is concerned, even the Cougar XR-7 with its 390 is pretty killer.

Once we can hybrid in the game, the solution will be easy. We can just shuffle 5L engines amongst all of the eligible chassis.

The solution I came up with is to not perform any weight reductions and to possibly use extra ballast for certain cars. In theory, this would bring the power:weight ratios all very close to equal. Is this what you're thinking of doing to level out the playing field?
 
63AvantiR3
The solution I came up with is to not perform any weight reductions and to possibly use extra ballast for certain cars. In theory, this would bring the power:weight ratios all very close to equal. Is this what you're thinking of doing to level out the playing field?
Click to expand...

I like this idea with the weight/power ratio extra ballast solution...
 
The street car counterparts of those cars lucky enough to get track duty, got bias ply tires, but even race cars of the day had slick compound tires. Now they weren't as grippy as slicks today, but they had no tread grooves, if that helps any.

Modifications should be more open, at least the suspension and final drive ratio. Posi-traction was legal. Some combination of clutches, flywheels and driveshafts should be discussed also.

To race in GT mode or not, that is the question. These cars were gutted, full-on racing machines. Suspensions were/are customizable, they're gutted and have cages. These cars are not for the racing weak. They're all about high power front engine, rear wheel drive, and zero driver aids.

I know the brother of a friend who actually races in the Historic Trans-Am series that is going on mostly in California. He owns and drives the #64 Camaro Z/28 (Chad Raynal). http://www.historictransam.com/Drivers/ChadRaynal.htm

There are two ways of attacking this online series. Essentially "showroom stock" and that would be fine for racing in Arcade mode, or full-on true to form Historic Trans-Am. Somewhere in there is a compromise where we can let cars over 5L of displacement run, and where we may have tunable pieces, other than the "quick customization" that arcade mode allows you to have.
 
I originally wanted to use GT Mode - like you stated, apart from the displacement issues, you could probably get them close to the spec they ran too in period, you could also make the 2ltr class cars even more competitive for OLR competitions sake. BUT unless you want to run the entire series os a 2 lap family cup, you have few available races where all the cars in the field are eligible. For this reason, and the fact that with extensive testing in arcade mode i've managed to get all the cars lapping within a couple of seconds of each other by utilizing the 'quick tune' option to tune/detune the various cars.

kennythebomb - i've bought a Z/28 - it will replace the SS 350 when i finalise the settings.

I've updated the provisional entry list with a couple of entrants from GTX.net - we now have half a grid, with many car slots starting to dry up. If you are concidering joining with a particular favourite you better be quick!
 
thanks for the support of the WTCC. since it is taking place after my series, id love a seat in the BMW 2002 if there is one available.
 
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