Fair play

  • Thread starter superjim
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My second ever post, and I've only been here 2 hours. Wow...

So, hey everybody, Lap 10/11 of Grand Valley Endurance. Driving a minolta. In the pitstop now (on pause). Enjoying coffee and cigarette. Car go fast. I win.

It occurred to me at beginning the of this race, once I had overtaken the entire field despite not yet reaching the first corner, that this race might perhaps be a bit easy. That I might win it. That I could, in fact, do 30 laps in reverse only using the handbrake, and still win it.

In fact, I might give that a go.

And all that got me to thinking...

"Very few races in GT4 (or any other GT game for that matter) are intrinsically difficult, owing to their restrictions (or lack of) on what cars you can enter with."

Who hasn't entered a race armed to the teeth with a 1000HP+ race car, to find themself up against a bunch of crappy vitzes and civics? It happens all the time. Indeed, the only races where you are genuinely obliged to worry about tuning (and indeed, driving reasonably well) are the very high end ones (where all the cars are as good as yours) and the very low end ones when you first start playing (where you are worrying about whether that 6,547 credits you have should go on weight reduction or a sports muffler). Okay, there are a few exceptions.

If my memory serves me correctly, GT2 had horse-power limits on races, as in, "you can only enter this if your car has this HP or less". At the time I thought it was a good idea.

Now, however, almost all races can be entered with a car that not only beats the socks off the others, but looks comically ridiculous on the starting line in being so-obviously-out-of-place.

What would be wrong with reintroducing these regulations, or other ones like them? Like...

* You can only enter this race if your car has (or doesn't have) stickers on it.
* If your car jumps on the hilly bits of Seattle, you can't enter.
* Only the sorts of cars that women might consider buying can enter this race
* Any advantage you have in HP must be offset by obligatorily tuning your car really badly.

etc...

I know that the GT games pride themselves on realism, but a race which puts a formula one car against a yaritz doesn't seem very realistic to me...
 
Well, just like GT3, you get out of it what you put into it. Anybody seriously interested in a good race will take the time to audition a few cars to see how they stack up against the field. If you read the race reports, and look for Digital Nitrate's compendium of AI lineups (among several others), you can get a decent idea of what car is appropriate and fun.

The Rabbit AI is an ever-present problem, but careful field selection can usually find fairly balanced competition.

Welcome to GTPlanet and thanks for providing thoughtful, well-worded posts - both of them so far.
 
I hear you duke. Those who genuinely value the game won't just choose cars that will easily win - they will make an effort to even the playing field by themselves.

But I don't always do that, I have gone many races just robotically going through laps and winning without ever putting in any serious effort. While I am not proud of this I am human! Were the game to "force" me (as it were) to participate in more challenging races, I would break a sweat more often, and "get more out of it", as you say.

Thanks for the kind words!

(lap 20/21 - still winning)
 
Another excellent post. 👍

Enjoying coffee and cigarette.
Problem #1... too many stimulants... and one that can/will kill you. :boggled:


"Very few races in GT4 (or any other GT game for that matter) are intrinsically difficult, owing to their restrictions (or lack of) on what cars you can enter with."
While I personally prefer a close competitive race, I also am grateful that by not making the majority of races very restrictive it gives far more options to each player, thus allowing most people to enjoy what ever type of racing they enjoy the most at any given time.

While I would never admit it in open court, I have been known on occasions to use a far better car than the AI in a race just to see how many times I can lap the field before the end, or to have fun passing and bumping them, then slow down, let them pass, then speed up and torment them some more. :D

Although, while some consider a 75%-100% win ratio to be praise worthy, personally, I am most proud of the fact that my win ratio for most of my game saves is around 50% because when you primarily focus on "creating" close races, you are going to quickly discover that winning most races is just not a realistic goal. :)

The point is that by not being so restrictive the game does allow a wide variety of playing styles, and allows each player to experiment with a wide selection of cars and set-ups for any given race. 👍

On the other hand, this also means that the players who do want close competitive racing MUST also learn restraint, have a real understanding of what the AI cars in a specific race and specific grid are capable of, and perhaps most importantly, knowing what you are capable of doing in a specific car & set-up; like one with or without specific mods, specific tuning, tires, etc.

Much of this has to be done with trial and error, as everyone has different capabilities, styles, techniques, and preferences, but in time you'll find that it is not as hard as it might seem to select a car, set-up, race, and field of AI cars that will result in a very close competitive race.

However, this is also where things get challenging, and exposes some of the problems with GT4. :guilty:

For instance, you'll find that trying to get specific data on exactly what the AI cars are equipped with is in some cases impossible to know for sure. Also, PD did not allow us to select each AI car in a race, but at least they allow us to change the field until we see one we like, but this takes time, and frankly is a tad annoying.

The other BIG problem I have with GT4, and what often keeps me from ever re-racing in the short, non-championship series races is that they do not allow you to qualify for non-championship races. This means for those races you always have to start from the back, and if the race is short, it means you have no choice but to select a car/set-up that is better than the best AI car in the race so that you at least have a chance at winning a race. There are some acceptations, but for the most part this is the case with those short non-championship races. 👎


Here is the GREAT news.... You'll find a tremendous amount of very helpful information on GTP from countless numbers of members that have gone out of their way to make it far easier for their fellow GT users to enjoy different types of challenges and races. 👍

An excellent place to start your search is the sticky threads always listed at the top of the GT4 board. I would especially suggest browsing through the two FAQ threads:
I would also strongly suggest checking out the GT4 Sub-Forum boards located at the very top of this board. I'd especially recommend looking through the GT4 Race Report board, for a great deal of helpful insight into various types of racing situations, strategies, techniques, and results data. I also would recommend browseing through the GT4 Car Tuning & Settings, also located in the GT4 sub-forum area.

These boards may really help you get the most enjoyment from GT4, whether you just want to dominate a race, be seriously challenged by the AI, or try and achieve personal bests with specific cars and on specific tracks. 👍👍


Once again, welcome to GTP! Like you, I first joined in due to an interest I have in GT4 and a question I had about the Merc CLK-GTR/LM race car... (seems like it was years ago, but was only about a year ago now). While I'm not a long standing member, I have very quickly found myself drawn to this online community, and found that GTP allowed me to express, share, and develop my interests in many other subjects far beyond just Gran Turismo, and so I would also encourage you and anyone else new to GTP to begin exploring the other parts of this vast forum. You'll quickly discover that the members here are as diverse and knowledgeable as you'll find just about any where else, and in many cases, far more so. 👍👍
 
Well, just like GT3, you get out of it what you put into it. Anybody seriously interested in a good race will take the time to audition a few cars to see how they stack up against the field. If you read the race reports, and look for Digital Nitrate's compendium of AI lineups (among several others), you can get a decent idea of what car is appropriate and fun.

The Rabbit AI is an ever-present problem, but careful field selection can usually find fairly balanced competition.

Welcome to GTPlanet and thanks for providing thoughtful, well-worded posts - both of them so far.

Unfortunately Duke is right. Anyone can just enter some super-car and win race after race, but those of us who want more of a challenge will need to create their challenge. I've been doing this personally for the last 3 years in GT2, 3 and now 4.

My second ever post, and I've only been here 2 hours. Wow...

So, hey everybody, Lap 10/11 of Grand Valley Endurance. Driving a minolta. In the pitstop now (on pause). Enjoying coffee and cigarette. Car go fast. I win.

It occurred to me at beginning the of this race, once I had overtaken the entire field despite not yet reaching the first corner, that this race might perhaps be a bit easy. That I might win it. That I could, in fact, do 30 laps in reverse only using the handbrake, and still win it.

In fact, I might give that a go.

And all that got me to thinking...

"Very few races in GT4 (or any other GT game for that matter) are intrinsically difficult, owing to their restrictions (or lack of) on what cars you can enter with."

Who hasn't entered a race armed to the teeth with a 1000HP+ race car, to find themself up against a bunch of crappy vitzes and civics? It happens all the time. Indeed, the only races where you are genuinely obliged to worry about tuning (and indeed, driving reasonably well) are the very high end ones (where all the cars are as good as yours) and the very low end ones when you first start playing (where you are worrying about whether that 6,547 credits you have should go on weight reduction or a sports muffler). Okay, there are a few exceptions.

If my memory serves me correctly, GT2 had horse-power limits on races, as in, "you can only enter this if your car has this HP or less". At the time I thought it was a good idea.

Now, however, almost all races can be entered with a car that not only beats the socks off the others, but looks comically ridiculous on the starting line in being so-obviously-out-of-place.

What would be wrong with reintroducing these regulations, or other ones like them? Like...

  • You can only enter this race if your car has (or doesn't have) stickers on it.
  • If your car jumps on the hilly bits of Seattle, you can't enter.
  • Only the sorts of cars that women might consider buying can enter this race
  • Any advantage you have in HP must be offset by obligatorily tuning your car really badly.

etc...

I know that the GT games pride themselves on realism, but a race which puts a formula one car against a yaritz doesn't seem very realistic to me...

Well personally I don't just jump in a 1000 + horsepower supercar and wupp some ass, altho a few years back I had no problem doing this. The problem with using super-power and blowing the sims away is that it's boring. It gets old FAST. And it looks ridiculous in the replay like you said. Like a gladiator showing up for touch-football. :guilty:

Also, the horsepower limits in GT2 were a bit bogus if you ask me. There were plenty of (let's say) 500 hp events in which I could win with a 300 horsepower car. But for all the cheaters out there who aren't that good in the first place, I'd say re-introduce horsepower limits for them! 👍

..not sure what you mean about cars "jumping on the hilly parts of Seattle" by the way! Aren't they supposed to jump?
 
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.....An excellent place to start your search is the sticky threads always listed at the top of the GT4 board. I would especially suggest browsing through the two FAQ threads:
I would also strongly suggest checking out the GT4 Sub-Forum boards located at the very top of this board. I'd especially recommend looking through the GT4 Race Report board, for a great deal of helpful insight into various types of racing situations, strategies, techniques, and results data. I also would recommend browseing through the GT4 Car Tuning & Settings, also located in the GT4 sub-forum area.


And if that still doesn't pique your interest check out the 200 A spec race subforum https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=182
or the weekly race series
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=117

AMG.
 
I try to make all my races for at least 60 A-spec points. That is supposed to be even. I know there all all sorts of discrepencies and absurdities in the A-spec system that can be exploited, but for the most part I find that this makes for a fairly even, exciting race. Of course, I'm comparably new to the game and not a great driver yet.

I also like my car to look more or less like the other cars in the race (agree re decals) and all my cars need to look cool.

Also, I try to pick up on what the spirit of the set of races is (i.e., what is a Tuning Car?) and conform to that.

Finding and tuning just the right car for these "values" can take a long time. I'll have dozens of browser tabs open on this and other sites researching cars, setups, etc. But I enjoy it and find it adds a lot to the RPG aspect of the game.

If you are interested in anything like this, Wild Cobra's A-Spec Point Data; Values, Races, and Modifications

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=70995

is invaluable. Also, as mentioned above the threads on 200-point races are rich in information. I'm not quite up to that yet. Not a whole lot better than my B-spec Bob. But I'll get better and he won't.
 
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