Étonnant! Magnifique! Français! La Citroën DS Thread!!

  • Thread starter Thread starter YSSMAN
  • 69 comments
  • 11,163 views
YSSMAN

YSSMAN

Super-Cool Since 2013
Premium
Messages
21,286
United States
GR-MI-USA
Messages
YSSMAN
Messages
YSSMAN
Oh La La!

web-cit-ds3_2.jpg

Autoblog
French fashion is at the forefront of the industry, and the same goes for French cuisine and French wine. But when it comes to cars, France's auto industry can hook you up (assuming you live overseas) with economical hatchbacks and minivans, but that's just about it until you get to the seven-figure Bugatti Veyron. Which is owned by a bunch of German fellows. That gigantic gap is apparently one which Citroën hopes to plug with its new DS line.

Citroën launched its premium initiative with the DS Inside Concept at the Geneva Motor Show this past March, and the French automaker has a whole range of premium vehicles lined up. Now Citroën has released the production version of the first model in the line, and it looks pretty darn close to the concept. In fact, the only thing they seemed to have changed from the show car to the production model is the exhaust – switched from twin pipes to a single tip – and the radio antenna, which goes with a conventional aerial instead of the concept's fin. Otherwise – and overall – Citroën appears to have managed the transition from concept to production in exceptionally smooth style – even retaining the showcar's unique fin-like B-pillar treatment.

The compact premium hatch shares its underpinnings with the new C3, only with a touch more class. Like a custom-tailored French suit, buyers can specify a whole range of color choices, extending beyond the usual exterior and interior shades to include the roof color, door mirror housings, dashboard trims, wheel hubs and more.

Power choices include two diesels (90 or 110 horsepower, respectively) and three gasoline engines (95, 120 or 150 horsepower), with five- or six-speed manuals.
Click to expand...

Check out the Gallery Here


I first became aware of the car in the Top Gear issue that came out a few months ago. Stunning, was my first thought. Sure, its a shot aimed squarely at the MINI, but this just seems perfect. Quirky, luxurious, and totally awesome. I love all of it. Yet another amazing French thing we won't have in the States.
 
Stop, stop, stop, stop, STOP, STOP, STOP!

I am sick and tired of whale front ends. Enough!

I like the car. Honestly, I think a lot of details (the b-pillar, for example. Or the entire canopy, for that matter) are quite nifty. But I'd honestly love to know what person in the Citroen design studio thought that the Nissan GT-R front end would look fantastic on a sub-compact if only it had just a bit more whale inducement.
 
I'm fine with that. Why, however, does every manufacturer seem to think that their cars need whale grills to match?
 
I agree, grilles are getting too big. But I think this aside, the design is successful overall. Citroen are on an absolute roll at the moment. The C1 is the best looking of the C1/107/Agyo trio, the C2 and C3 are nothing special but at least they're interesting, the C4 looks great whether 3dr or 5dr, the C5 is a brilliant design and genuinely Germanic, and the C6 is just beautiful. And now, the DS3 is distinctive, and Citroen have managed to learn how to build cars properly over the last few years too so I suspect it may even prove a credible rival to the MINI. Hell, Fiats were always built badly but the 500 has kicked the crap out of the MINI ever since it was launched. Wouldn't surprise me if Citroen was able to do similar.
 
Part of me Is starting to think that the Peugeot side of PSA could quietly go the way of Plymouth and Oldsmobile. Citroen has, as of late, simply been inspired.

Unfortunately, this car is kind of too modern - and conventional - to have that DS moniker. I'll applaud them for not being retro...but reviving a nameplate that's been dead more than twenty years for a completely different car doesn't make much sense to me.
 
Toronado
Stop, stop, stop, stop, STOP, STOP, STOP!

I am sick and tired of whale front ends. Enough!

I like the car. Honestly, I think a lot of details (the b-pillar, for example. Or the entire canopy, for that matter) are quite nifty. But I'd honestly love to know what person in the Citroen design studio thought that the Nissan GT-R front end would look fantastic on a sub-compact if only it had just a bit more whale inducement.
Click to expand...

Thank you god for saying exactly what I wanted to say. 👍
 
It wouldn't be French if it wasn't controversial. That's the way I look at it. I'd have loved to have seen the embossed DS logos on the hood and dash remain, but it looks like they went bye-bye. Too bad. But, I do love the look of the interior in general. Modern, but still functional.
 
I like it a lot. I think it's a bit too much for me to own, but it's a pretty attractive car.

So is the DS line going to be something like what Audi or Alfa Romeo are?
 
YSSMAN
Sure, its a shot aimed squarely at the MINI...
Click to expand...

...which will almost certainly miss ;)

Don't get me wrong, I love Citroens. But dynamically... meh. They're fine, but they're not quite on the mark - something that doesn't bother me, but is sure to annoy Mr Previous Mini Owner. As will the depreciation, I'd expect. And the almost definite step down in build quality. And the fact that it's basically a new C3 in a suit.

I'll have one in lime green, please.

Philly
So is the DS line going to be something like what Audi or Alfa Romeo are?
Click to expand...


Something like that. Except they'll be sold from the same, Kwik Save-like dealers network.
 
Jim Prower
Part of me Is starting to think that the Peugeot side of PSA could quietly go the way of Plymouth and Oldsmobile. Citroen has, as of late, simply been inspired.
Click to expand...

Peugeot have lost the plot so badly it's like they're working an entirely different story. To have gone from producing some of the prettiest and best handling cars in the class throughout the 90s to building some of the least inspiring and ugly cars on the road is a pretty drastic tumble. And yet Citroen has gone completely the other direction - every new model they release looks fantastic and every single one steps up the quality.

Jondot
...which will almost certainly miss ;)

Don't get me wrong, I love Citroens. But dynamically... meh. They're fine, but they're not quite on the mark - something that doesn't bother me, but is sure to annoy Mr Previous Mini Owner. As will the depreciation, I'd expect. And the almost definite step down in build quality. And the fact that it's basically a new C3 in a suit.
Click to expand...

I disagree. Firstly, because 95% of previous MINI owners wouldn't know handling if it came around to their house and kicked their dog. I can assume this because a large number of MINI owners either bought the car without even test-driving it (seriously, this apparently does happen rather frequently with the MINI), and a large proportion of the rest immediately spec the car up with massive wheels that destroy the ride and handling.

Anyone moving to the DS3 will probably be just amazed that the car has smooth ride even on larger wheels, and that they can even fit people in the back (of course I'm speculating here, but the rear space in the DS3 can't be any worse than the MINI, can it?).

Secondly, depreciation isn't the problem it once was. Apparently the C6 depreciates really quite slowly, and this is a big, French luxury car we're talking about - normally big, French luxury cars drop in value like a used prophylactic. Cars that are desirable (or rare, in the case of the C6) enough resist depreciation a lot more. Which is why MINIs and 500s hold their value very well. And it wasn't until the 500 that you could say that about a FIAT, so I expect the same may be the case with the DS3.

And again, with build quality - have a sit in something like a C5 or C6 - it's amazing the leap Citroen made with these cars.
 
I'm starting to agree about these oversized Rig grills;all grille, no face. and what I've been seeing is that the US is doing the exact oposite, slit grille, and all friggin bumper and air dam
 
And being such a big seller, the next C2 must be something special too...
 
homeforsummer
I disagree. Firstly, because 95% of previous MINI owners wouldn't know handling if it came around to their house and kicked their dog. I can assume this because a large number of MINI owners either bought the car without even test-driving it (seriously, this apparently does happen rather frequently with the MINI), and a large proportion of the rest immediately spec the car up with massive wheels that destroy the ride and handling.
Click to expand...

I think this might be a difference in US MINI buyers and Europe or at least UK MINI buyers. Most US MINI buyer buy the car as a weekend fun car or just a pleasure vehicle. I have people ask me all the time how I can stand to drive mine as a daily, even from MINI owners themselves.

I do agree though a lot of MINI owners put 18" or 19" rims on their cars and it destroys the handling.
 
homeforsummer
I disagree. Firstly, because 95% of previous MINI owners wouldn't know handling if it came around to their house and kicked their dog. I can assume this because a large number of MINI owners either bought the car without even test-driving it (seriously, this apparently does happen rather frequently with the MINI), and a large proportion of the rest immediately spec the car up with massive wheels that destroy the ride and handling.

Anyone moving to the DS3 will probably be just amazed that the car has smooth ride even on larger wheels, and that they can even fit people in the back (of course I'm speculating here, but the rear space in the DS3 can't be any worse than the MINI, can it?).
Click to expand...

Mmmm but using that logic, said 95% will still completely disregard anything without a Mini badge on the front, and so the DS3 may not have even entered their consciousness.

Secondly, depreciation isn't the problem it once was. Apparently the C6 depreciates really quite slowly, and this is a big, French luxury car we're talking about - normally big, French luxury cars drop in value like a used prophylactic. Cars that are desirable (or rare, in the case of the C6) enough resist depreciation a lot more. Which is why MINIs and 500s hold their value very well. And it wasn't until the 500 that you could say that about a FIAT, so I expect the same may be the case with the DS3.
Click to expand...

True, but I can't see the DS3 being quite popular enough to rival the other two. It's nice to look at, but it's not quite cutesy enough to have such a wide appeal simply from its aesthetics. I might be forced to eat my words, but that's my prediction at the mo.

And again, with build quality - have a sit in something like a C5 or C6 - it's amazing the leap Citroen made with these cars.
Click to expand...

That's all very well and good, but this is still a French car with a French badge on the front. For a lot of people/idiots that's a big turn off compared to car with a posh badge engineered by some Germans.



I'm not saying the DS3 won't work, I'm saying it's not going to persuade any Mini buyers. 1) Because it hasn't got the same badge snob appeal, 2) Because it's pretty much guaranteed that nobody will have heard of the damn thing, and 3) Because the dynamics will be totally... let's call them 'different'.
 
Jondot
I'm not saying the DS3 won't work, I'm saying it's not going to persuade any Mini buyers. 1) Because it hasn't got the same badge snob appeal, 2) Because it's pretty much guaranteed that nobody will have heard of the damn thing, and 3) Because the dynamics will be totally... let's call them 'different'.
Click to expand...

1) Buyers are a fickle bunch. They've traded MINI for Fiat so why not Fiat for Citroen?

2) Don't bet on it. You don't go to the trouble of making a class-leading car (again, I'm speculating, but they're not going about it by halfs by the looks of things) and then not promote it cleverly to appeal to the fashion-conscious buyers in their target market.

3) Citroen know how to make great handling cars. It's just that so far they've obviously seen more need for comfort - and why not, seeing as the C3 is driven by oldies, the C4 by families and anything bigger by sales reps with big bottoms. All of whom can appreciate comfort far more than they can "handling".

As long as Citroen get the basics right then they're on to a winner. Let's face it - the Fiat 500 isn't even supposed to handle as well as the Panda it's based on (apparently it's much softer, especially compared to the Panda 100HP), let alone the MINI - but that hasn't stopped it selling like hot cakes. Buyers, by and large, don't care about handling as long as it's not dangerous or rides terribly.

Really, it's only the motoring press and performance-orientated drivers who moan about "handling". The general public would rather something that's comfortable, and I'm more than certain Citroen can provide this.

Joey D
I do agree though a lot of MINI owners put 18" or 19" rims on their cars and it destroys the handling.
Click to expand...

Both the MINIs I've driven were on these wheels, known as R81s, which are very light for production alloys (5.5kg each for 15x5.5"), and yet many people replace them for the factory 17" wheels that are over double the weight per wheel. The MINI Cooper Cup race series in the UK kept the 15" wheels because they were so much better performance-wise than anything else that MINI offered. I remember a buyers' guide in EVO magazine stating that the R81s were the wheels to have on the Cooper too. Apart from anything, they're better looking than any of the other wheels save for the official JCW wheels.

I can't imagine how bad 18" or 19" would be.
 
Last edited:
I guess if I were buying a DS3, the last thing on my mind would be any kind of "sporting" nature. Would I expect it to be better than your average vehicle? Certainly. But to be something akin to a go-kart, or something else? No, not really. I'd think of this more as a cheap alternative to the Audi A2 or whatever this new Lexus hatch is supposed to be.
 
homeforsummer
1) Buyers are a fickle bunch. They've traded MINI for Fiat so why not Fiat for Citroen?
Click to expand...

Because they've made a rakishly beautiful small car, not a cutesey little thing that makes everyone go 'awww!'. I just don't think it's a fair comparison.

Plus I don't think that many Mini dealers have been swapping their Ones and Coopers for tiny little 500s. I'm guessing here, but I reckon a great deal of 500 buyers appreciate the considerable differences in both list price and the cost of insurance between their cars and Minis. If I had £11,000 sitting in my bank account, I'd be far more inclined to spend it on a well equipped 500 with a grand to spare than blow it all on a spartan Mini First.

Personally, I think a more sensible rival for the DS3 is the Alfa MiTo. They're both made by companies renowned for their unreliability (false as that stereotype may be), they've both got lovely interiors, and they're both (comparatively) frumpy superminis in suits. They'd be far better off marketing it as a higher-class small car like the MiTo than a trend-setter like the Mini. In my opinion, anyway :p
 
Last edited:
Bear in mind that Alfa Romeo see the MiTo as a rival for the MINI ;)

As for the MINI vs. 500 argument, it's important to realise that both these are largely classless cars - unlike your average supermini, they haven't been bought because they're cheap, they've been bought as a piece of fashion. It's impossible to tell with the average MINI or 500 whether it's the owner's only car, or whether they also have a Ferrari in their garage.

That said, I'm sure the 500's lower price does have something to do with the impact the car had on MINI sales. And in this respect I don't see how the Citroen would be much different - I suspect Citroen won't be dim enough to price the car out of the market.

Personally if I was in the market for a supermini I'd buy the first-gen MINI Cooper and save myself about £6k. Or I'd buy a Mazda 2 Sport and live without the "image".
 
I love the way it looks, even the big grille. But I don't think it's as 'special' as the 500 or Mini. It looks good, but very similar to a Ka or a Fiesta, and they're completely overlooked on the high street only a few months after launch. I've had my car a year and the model is well over a year old now and it still gets marks on the windows from people looking in and causes cars to slow down in car parks. Little kids love it and wave at me as I go by.

I imagine a similar thing happens with the Mini. To me, this hasn't got that special something about it. It looks like another practical, good looking small car. But it's not iconic in any way IMO. It evokes no emotions from me whatsoever, whereas the 500, the Mini and even the Mito manage to with ease (Despite me not liking the Mito's looks).
 

Latest Posts

Back