◆ SNAIL [Spec] Racing - Currently Recruiting for GT7 - JOIN TODAY!!Open 

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First time in D1 and I can't race. Sorry for late notice. Parents just told me that we're going to some relatives house for dinner. Sorry again! I'll be back next week.
 
First time in D1 and I can't race. Sorry for late notice. Parents just told me that we're going to some relatives house for dinner. Sorry again! I'll be back next week.

Doh, have a good dinner, will see you next week.
 
If I stay on the track, finish before we clock-out, race clean, and feel like I learned or did better, that'll be fine.

I am really dithering on continuing with GT5 once I realized that 3 things were seeming to be accurate:
1). Despite getting my main acct to 40 and this one to 34 in A spec, I know nothing about driving
2). With coaching, I improve, bout am still D.F.L. In standings.
3). With coaching and practice, I seem to be stuck in#2.

I wonder if I am just too late to picking up racing games - got my PS3 2 years ago, first console since I upgraded my 2600 to a 5200!

That, or a lack or real racing experience seems to matter. Damn you, my minivan of suburban dad angst!

Back to finding a cleaner line in Nurburgring, then the garage gulag for a bit more on the HoneyDo list.

Similar story to me, before the PS3 my last console was the Super Nintendo. I started current gen driving games with F1 2010 and at the urging of a friend got GT5.

By doing the license tests I was able to gain 'some' knowledge of how to drive a car in the game and was reasonable but certainly not fast.

The step to the next level of speed for me was getting some how to race books and applying what was said. I got the books because I wanted to learn how to take corners fast, but there's so much more to it than that. Psychological being at least as important.

Getting advice and following/watching faster drivers will also help you understand what to do and how.

Seat time in a race situation has made a huge difference too. The more you are in a specific situation, the more comfortable you become.

Don't get me wrong, I have no delusions of grandeur. I'm fast enough and slowly getting faster. I know I'm mid D1 at best, for now ;).

D2 & 3 are not places to be looked down on. Great racing happens in all our divisions and if you check the numbers, there isn't much to separate any of them.

I for one hope you stick with it!



:lol:

Good points kcheeb.

handlerbar~~
If I may just say, you are never too old to learn new things. When you have attended the few tutoring sessions, I have noticed that you understand the information being given to you, but I suspect that you have not had the needed time to put in the seat time to get re-enforce the knowledge - which really is needed. It is what it is - it's just that simple.

The tutoring sessions have been focused on the drivers of D2 & D3 to carry more speed turn the critical turns of the weekly tracks in an effort to give them (the students) an edge over their competition in their respective divisions. This is very helpful for those that have a basic understanding of the subject matter but merely need additional help, but it does nothing for someone who needs more help with their education, like "school".

it sounds to me like you would benefit for an idea that I've been considering, "S.N.A.I.L. Racing School". This would allow drivers, like you, to get the help the education they need to improve their skills to become more competitive drivers. These lessons would cover the basics that the GT5 License Testing are covering, but fail to explain to the driver. GT5 assumes that all drivers who take part in the License Test have the basic understand of how to handle a car and why, when in fact - they don't. The License Tests are good at testing your skill, but that is all they do. These tests fail to explain what you should be working on, how to go about doing it and why - which is critical if you a driver is trying to learn these skills. The game uses a "trial and error" method which is fine, but most drivers will get frustrated and then will just settle or worse - they will give up.

Offering a "S.N.A.I.L. Racing School" would be great for people like you, who would like to learn more. The problem (as I see it) is there has been a serious lack of people interested in the tutoring sessions. I end up spending the time that I've set aside for tutoring just practicing. Now that GT5 Academy is just around the corner, I'd like to focus more of my attention there, but I do feel a sense of responsibility to my S.N.A.I.L. members. As a result, I find myself with a decision to make.

I would like input from my fellow S.N.A.I.L. members.
 
Zero, you said you could track points week to week or month to month, would it be possible to have a points tally to act as sort of a championship points total? With the old points scale this wouldn't be 100% possible due to the sliding scale, with the New fixed scale it would be. For arguments sake, the points tally for that could start this Race so everyone's on a clean slate so to speak, no one has an advantage due to being here longer.

I like the idea of keeping track of the points for the sake of being able to compare the statistics, but if we started adding everyone's points together for the sake of a championship, then we'd essentially be turning our league into a racing series, which it's not. I personally prefer the ongoing/weekly nature of our league because it allows everyone to jump in or out without having to worry about which week of the hypothetical championship season we're in and how many weeks we have left of it. Besides, what prize would we award to the championship points winner? All of the prizes that make our league work are already awarded each Sunday night.

I would keep all division points tally'd in the same grouping because even tho some would win in D3/D2 they would be promoted and have to win in the next higher up Div to keep up their win streak.

I like the idea of keeping all divisions tally'd in the same division. It underlines that fact that all three of our divisions are equally important. In fact, that belief has had me thinking for the past couple of week about a shake-up with our prize system. Since the very beginning, we've allowed the top three drivers to pick between our Prize A, Prize B, and Prize C selections. However, that was before we had three divisions of drivers. If you take a quick look at the results from the last few weeks, it's evident that only a very small number of drivers ever really have any shot of picking a car or track. I don't like that at all. I would much rather have a situation where a wider range of drivers have a shot of getting to select cars and tracks so that those selections are more representative of what our league as a whole is looking for.

What would you guys think about scenario in which, instead of the podium winners in D1 getting to pick the prizes (A, B, and C), we let the 1st place finishers in each division pick the prizes? Because of the nature of our Promotion and Relegation system, it would virtually guarantee somebody new would be picking a car or track each week! Not only would that produce a wider variety of prize winners, but it would also underline the fundamental belief that each and every one of our divisions is equally important to our league. I also like the symmetry of it all. We have three divisions and we have three prizes, so why not let them sync up? Should we give it a try?

Thoughts? Suggestions?
 
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I like the idea of keeping track of the points for the sake of being able to compare the statistics, but if we started adding everyone's points together for the sake of a championship, then we'd essentially be turning our league into a racing series, which it's not. I personally prefer the ongoing/weekly nature of our league because it allows everyone to jump in or out without having to worry about which week of the hypothetical championship season we're in and how many weeks we have left of it. Besides, what prize would we award to the championship points winner? All of the prizes that make our league work are already awarded each Sunday night.



I like the idea of keeping all divisions tally'd in the same division. It underlines that fact that all three of our divisions are equally important. In fact, that belief has had me thinking for the past couple of week about a shake-up with our prize system. Since the very beginning, we've allowed the top three drivers to pick between our Prize A, Prize B, and Prize C selections. However, that was before we had three divisions or drivers. If you take a quick look at the results from the last few weeks, it's evident that only a very small number of drivers ever really have any shot of picking a car or track. I don't like that at all. I would much rather have a situation where a wider range of drivers have a shot of getting to select cars and tracks so that those selections are more representative of what our league as a whole is looking for.

What would you guys think about scenario in which, instead of the podium winners in D1 getting to pick the prizes (A, B, and C), we let the 1st place finishers in each division pick the prizes? Because of the nature of our Promotion and Relegation system, it would virtually guarantee somebody new would be picking a car or track each week! Not only would that produce a wider variety of prize winners, but it would also underline the fundamental belief that each and every one of our divisions is equally important to our league. I also like the symmetry of it all. We have three divisions and we have three prizes, so why not let them sync up? Should we give it a try?

Thoughts? Suggestions?

I think it is a great idea! It would be the tri-fecta. Tires Selection, Point System, and Prize Selection in one week! 👍
 
since i'm in D3 I think it's a great idea to spread the prizes to all division winners. So far i like all the adjustments made. Evolve or die!
 
I have a fundraiser meeting that starts at 5....I told them if it goes too long, I'm bailing as I have to be home by 7 to do this :sly:
 
The problem (as I see it) is there has been a serious lack of people interested in the tutoring sessions. I end up spending the time that I've set aside for tutoring just practicing. Now that GT5 Academy is just around the corner, I'd like to focus more of my attention there, but I do feel a sense of responsibility to my S.N.A.I.L. members. As a result, I find myself with a decision to make.

We have been hosting the Tutoring sessions for about a month and a half, and it wasnt always on Thursdays, it was ANYTIME we would be on, that we would help people who Wanted it. Nows its on a set day so everyone know's about it, but you can also PM for private tutoring, as we have said in the past, as well as in our signature's, so we can try to cater around Your schedule if need be. We have gotten a few PM's, and the same few people show up on Thursdays, with a low turn out each time, almost the same people each time too. Its clear the vast majority (from my point of view) feel they want to put in the time to learn, they would rather have fun in another room, then study and learn something. Some people have posted the results of their tutoring sessions, shaving SECONDS off lap times, and being able to turn D1 lap times on average, when normally your a D2 driver who runs mid-pack.

If i was you Devious, I would put your focus towards the GT Academy. Obviously this doesnt mean the end of any Tutoring of course, but you know what i mean. I know you have put in more hour's then i care to count on trying to help other's become smoother and faster around the track. I think its time you took some time out for your self, since a VAST portion of your week revolves around tutoring in one way or another.
Just my 2 cents, but you do as you wish.

I like the idea of keeping track of the points for the sake of being able to compare the statistics

but if we started adding everyone's points together for the sake of a championship, then we'd essentially be turning our league into a racing series, which it's not.

Besides, what prize would we award to the championship points winner?

1) I like this also

2) There would be no championship, since we run currently 3 Divisions, and not 1 big one. The point i was making (typing on my phone so couldnt type everything out, just getting the basic idea) was the stats idea. A list of all drivers and points, with people moving up and down, it wouldnt be possible to separate them correctly.

3) Again, there would no "Championship" winner, no prizes either. That would be for the stats stand point. We run week to week, just keep a tally of it all to look at. This isnt a race series i agree.

What would you guys think about scenario in which, instead of the podium winners in D1 getting to pick the prizes (A, B, and C), we let the 1st place finishers in each division pick the prizes?
I believe it was you (could be mistaken tho, maybe one of the other SNAIL's who's been here longer then i have) that had said you prefered if D2/3 drivers did not pick car/track combo's. The reason given for this was because they were not experienced enough to be able to pick car's and tracks they went well together. Lets say someone is a "Nascar" guy and wants to run stock cars at Daytona speedway, all thats going to turn into is a draft fest were NO ONE wants to be in first, because your guaranteed to lose if everyone keeps up, the guy(s) behind you will draft past you at the final corner and take the win. This not only promotes sandbagging but involves no true driver skill, which is what this league is about, Right?

But this is a majority vote im guessing, so i vote sure. D1 gets Prize A? D2 Prize B? and D3 gets the car/tie breaker vote?
 
I like the idea of keeping track of the points for the sake of being able to compare the statistics, but if we started adding everyone's points together for the sake of a championship, then we'd essentially be turning our league into a racing series, which it's not. I personally prefer the ongoing/weekly nature of our league because it allows everyone to jump in or out without having to worry about which week of the hypothetical championship season we're in and how many weeks we have left of it. Besides, what prize would we award to the championship points winner? All of the prizes that make our league work are already awarded each Sunday night.



I like the idea of keeping all divisions tally'd in the same division. It underlines that fact that all three of our divisions are equally important. In fact, that belief has had me thinking for the past couple of week about a shake-up with our prize system. Since the very beginning, we've allowed the top three drivers to pick between our Prize A, Prize B, and Prize C selections. However, that was before we had three divisions or drivers. If you take a quick look at the results from the last few weeks, it's evident that only a very small number of drivers ever really have any shot of picking a car or track. I don't like that at all. I would much rather have a situation where a wider range of drivers have a shot of getting to select cars and tracks so that those selections are more representative of what our league as a whole is looking for.

What would you guys think about scenario in which, instead of the podium winners in D1 getting to pick the prizes (A, B, and C), we let the 1st place finishers in each division pick the prizes? Because of the nature of our Promotion and Relegation system, it would virtually guarantee somebody new would be picking a car or track each week! Not only would that produce a wider variety of prize winners, but it would also underline the fundamental belief that each and every one of our divisions is equally important to our league. I also like the symmetry of it all. We have three divisions and we have three prizes, so why not let them sync up? Should we give it a try?

Thoughts? Suggestions?

As a whole, I like the idea being presented. However, I have see a couple of minor issues with this idea. The top driver in Div2 & Div3, are getting 2 prizes (the car/track combination selection & promotion to the next division) while Div1 is only getting the one prize (car/track selection). This is clearly not an "equal" standing. Since the start of S.N.A.I.L. Racing, it's been clear that a focus has been on top 3 drivers of the top division. Perhaps there should be the same focus for all 3 divisions? I don't know, I'm just rambling.

Maybe the prizes for Div2 & Div3 could be something a little different, but very similar to prize structure of Div 1. but with a twist. This is ONLY an idea, and admittedly still requires more work to be balanced. The Top 3 Drivers of each division would get a choice of prizes to choose from, but will only get the one prize. The 1st place winner of each division gets first pick, then 2nd place gets to make a pick from the remaining prizes, then 3rd places gets the remaining prize.

Voting:
All drivers (but the top 3 drivers of all divisions) get to cast a vote to vote OUT a Car/Track combo.

Once the race results are finalized division winners would be asked to claim their prize and announce their selection.

The current prizes are:
Prize A: Car & Track replacement selection
Prize B: Car or Track replacement selection
Prize C: Gifted Car (Winner's choice, as long as it's 999,999 Cr. or less)

possible suggestion:
Prize A-1: UNKNOWN Prize (IDK, Suggestions are welcome)
Prize B-1: Car or Track replacement selection (normal rules apply)
Prize C-1: Gifted Car (Winner's choice, as long as it's 999,999 Cr. or less)

Prize A-2: Promotion to next Division
Prize B-2: Car or Track replacement selection (normal rules apply)
Prize C-2: Gifted Car (Winner's choice, as long as it's 999,999 Cr. or less)

This is only a working idea that obviously requires more thought, but this does offer a more balanced approach to making all divisions equal.

Please feel free to offer thoughts, as that is the nature of this post.
 
I know I'm not an official SNAIL, but it seems to me that the free car prize is a little pointless. Credits are so easy to come by that it seems silly to include in-game prizes in the rewards scheme.

I could be wrong, just saying.
 
Thanks for the input, and the discussion.

Sharkie, I think you are likely spot on. I hear, I practice, but I bet it is not enough practice. I have made about half the practices and I have tried to communicate when I can attend. I will try to let you know 24 hrs prior if I can attend.

See all y'all soon
 
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Offering a "S.N.A.I.L. Racing School" would be great for people like you, who would like to learn more. The problem (as I see it) is there has been a serious lack of people interested in the tutoring sessions. I end up spending the time that I've set aside for tutoring just practicing. Now that GT5 Academy is just around the corner, I'd like to focus more of my attention there, but I do feel a sense of responsibility to my S.N.A.I.L. members. As a result, I find myself with a decision to make.

I would like input from my fellow S.N.A.I.L. members.


Just wanted to express my views, but I wouldn't go so far as saying there is a serious lack of interest in tutoring. I know it can be disheartening to put so much time and effort into helping others and end up in an empty lounge week after week. I for one a very interesting in what you have to offer but finding the time can be very challenging for some of us. I would love to have some sort of racing school available. I also believe that you should follow what interests you most (i.e. GT Academy) or other personal goals. What I think would be cool is to have a regular post like "Tarmac Tips" or something in that order where you folks can put together a narrative on driving and track concepts. This will give us some reading material that will at least help us understand what we do and how it affects us on the track. I understand it is not nearly as good as live tutoring but it may help plant some seeds. It could also branch out for more education on other things like track etiquette and other subtleties that some of us just aren't aware of... I come from a different racing discipline where things like the "Panic Rev" and "When in Doubt, Power Out" are actually helpful...
 
Yes and no for me, Exo.

The feedback in the sessions ROCKS. flat out, no holds barred. Being able to do something with it, as Sharkie said, means practicing beyond the tutor sessions.

And I also agree, that yes, knowing what to read/see/check out that's not crap, that's good as well.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say I'll suggest we both ask for tutoring when we can make it, not just Thurs eve. And, yes, I want Sharkie/MissD to rock whatever floats her boat as real life fits.
 
A bit more complicated but possibly more balanced than the three division prize system might be as follows:

Allow first prizes to go to those top two finishers in Div 1, third prize goes to the winner, in all divisions, of the Perfect 100 point system. If the winner of that is in Div 1 then just give the prize to Div 1 third place.

This gives a chance to Div 2 or Div 3 to get a prize for kicking the snot out of their competition, and they would truly deserve promotion, as well.

Another idea might be to give the Perfect 100 winner the first prize choice...

I also agree that the free car might be slightly pointless. Perhaps a week of "immunity" from relegation? I realize that if you're getting a prize you're probably in no danger, but it might be appreciated (I know I'd love it). This could be in place of the prize car or in addition to it.

Of course, this brings possible problems for one's motivation that next week and whatnot.


Oh. And if anyone ever actually achieves a Perfect 100 they should probably get some uber prize.
 
1) I like this also

2) There would be no championship, since we run currently 3 Divisions, and not 1 big one. The point i was making (typing on my phone so couldnt type everything out, just getting the basic idea) was the stats idea. A list of all drivers and points, with people moving up and down, it wouldnt be possible to separate them correctly.

3) Again, there would no "Championship" winner, no prizes either. That would be for the stats stand point. We run week to week, just keep a tally of it all to look at. This isnt a race series i agree.

If it's stats you're looking for, we have that covered. What I'd like to see in addition to these stats, is a line graph that shows the progression of our drivers over time. Something that would look like this for example. With our new "PERFECT 100" points system, this graph could have the highest point value permanently set at 100. This consistent "highest value" would allow for this graph to accurately represent how drivers improve or decline in their performance over long stretches of time. Imagine a graph that shows the progress of all of our drivers over an entire year. Now that would be epic!

I believe it was you (could be mistaken tho, maybe one of the other SNAIL's who's been here longer then i have) that had said you prefered if D2/3 drivers did not pick car/track combo's. The reason given for this was because they were not experienced enough to be able to pick car's and tracks they went well together. Lets say someone is a "Nascar" guy and wants to run stock cars at Daytona speedway, all thats going to turn into is a draft fest were NO ONE wants to be in first, because your guaranteed to lose if everyone keeps up, the guy(s) behind you will draft past you at the final corner and take the win. This not only promotes sandbagging but involves no true driver skill, which is what this league is about, Right?

It wasn't me because I've never discussed with anyone before. Like I said in my post above, the current prize structure has been in place since the beginning and I don't think anyone has ever suggested changing it - until now. Also, I would never object to anyone selecting any car or track (even NASCAR) because our interactive voting system will weed out any undesirable choices in very short order. I have always held firm that the only requirement of any car selected is that it's easily accessible to all - even on short notice.

But this is a majority vote im guessing, so i vote sure. D1 gets Prize A? D2 Prize B? and D3 gets the car/tie breaker vote?

Close, but not quite. Your scenario will likely happen the majority of the time, but the way it would technically work is the winner of D1 gets to pick first, the winner of D2 gets to pick second, and the winner of D3 gets the remaining prize. It's the same setup that we currently have for our D1 podium, but with different people getting to pick the prizes.

What's everyone else's thoughts on this? Not very many people have chimed in.
 
I'm not going to quote the whole message I'm replying to becasue it would take up a bunch of space.

I really wish people would stop bashing oval racing and drafting and stating it doesn't take any driver skill to do it. It takes a whole different set of skills to be effective on an oval and in the draft. Have you ever wondered why road course specialists don't do well in NASCAR? Borris Said, Ron Fellows, and many others have tried to run on NASCAR ovals with premium equipment and they don't have the skills to compete.

It is a different kind of racing, and if you're not any good at it or just don't care for it, it's not fair or correct for you or anyone else to say it requires no skill to do it.
 
I like the idea of keeping track of the points for the sake of being able to compare the statistics, but if we started adding everyone's points together for the sake of a championship, then we'd essentially be turning our league into a racing series, which it's not.

It's no secret I like numbers. Comparing my points week to week makes me feel warm and fuzzy :lol:

I don't think, as has been said, we want to turn this into a series. A fresh start each week keeps the interest up. I've been in a few series and as soon as some people knew they were out, they lost interest. Definitely not something we want to promote.

What would you guys think about scenario in which, instead of the podium winners in D1 getting to pick the prizes (A, B, and C), we let the 1st place finishers in each division pick the prizes?

I like the idea of involving more of us in the workings of the club. It's what we want right? Get more of us involved.

I thought of an alternative to a car being the third place prize, as was said, cars are pretty easy to come by. Take it for what it's worth, it's an idea :)

Prize A - Replace Car and Track of first most voted for combo
Prize B - Replace Car or Track of second most voted for combo
Prize C - Replace Car or Track of third most voted for combo, but opposite of Prize B

An example might be best to illustrate:

D1 winner picks the car and track of the most voted combo.
D2 winner picks the car of the second most voted combo.
D3 winner picks the track of the third most voted combo.

Not sure if that's too much change week to week, thoughts?
 
I'm not going to quote the whole message I'm replying to becasue it would take up a bunch of space.

I really wish people would stop bashing oval racing and drafting and stating it doesn't take any driver skill to do it. It takes a whole different set of skills to be effective on an oval and in the draft. Have you ever wondered why road course specialists don't do well in NASCAR? Borris Said, Ron Fellows, and many others have tried to run on NASCAR ovals with premium equipment and they don't have the skills to compete.

It is a different kind of racing, and if you're not any good at it or just don't care for it, it's not fair or correct for you or anyone else to say it requires no skill to do it.

Well said bowler.

From what I've read oval racing is very different, something about looking for space on entry instead of exit. Tough for me to get my head around it, but I haven't done much of it.
 
I missed something ... who bashed NASCAR?

It's on the last page. It's also somewhere else in this thread but I couldn't tell you where. They don't bash NASCAR specifically but more of a general comment on the style of racing.
 
It takes a whole different set of skills to be effective on an oval and in the draft.

I agree 110% with you about this, in real life. But sadly in GT they got it all wrong. I'll happily admit it, i have no skills in the oval game or drafting, but when in a public room and it gets switched to oval racing, (from what i have seen) its about waiting, and sling-shoting past on the last corner(s). 2 cars are faster then 1 car, i know that. If everyone is a decent driver the "pack" should be together the entire race, no way is someone going to pull away from the other's.
Sorry if i was "bashing" oval tracks, i know you do dirt oval's, but it was aimed at you, it was about GT5, and its flawed physic's.


*EDIT* Handlebar, it was me in your question, that made the comment.

Dont be afraid to point fingers :)
 
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Let me know if you still need someone and if thats what your looking for.:)
No where near Handlebar's but still pretty darn good.

tcrash, I totally forgot to reply to your post! Can you please be the host for Division 1? That would mean logging into the D1 lounge uh..now? :D (or at least as soon as possible lol). I've added you to the League Responsibilities post in hopes that you're okay with duty.
 
You're right in one respect. No one driver is going to pull away. You have to learn to drive in a pack and navigate that pack of cars. It really is a chess game at 200 mph. I can't speak to personal experience with Daytona, but I have run a Winston West car at Auto Club. Based on my experience there, Indy oval is very close to reality. The NASCAR cars in the game are flawed becasue they are not restricted on Daytona like the real cars. The physics are actually pretty good
 
As for Zero's question. I say it would be good to have more people involved in the decision making process and a good way to do that would be to spread the prized around the three divisions. The more different people making choices, the less of a chance there is for stagnation.
 
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