◆ SNAIL [Spec] Racing - Currently Recruiting for GT7 - JOIN TODAY!!Open 

  • Thread starter zer05ive
  • 142,743 comments
  • 7,000,488 views

Dragonwhisky

Premium
5,829
United States
GTPlanet
dragonwhisky
Nonono, but the point is when you have a car that is very stable and hard to make mistakes combined with a track with not a ton of racing room, it doesn't make for great racing.

How do you get around a track faster than the next guy? Make fewer, smaller mistakes than he does and recognize them sooner. Everyone makes mistakes, but the more experience / skill you have the fewer & smaller you make. Thats why higher division drivers tend to like oversteery, lower grip cars for racing excitement - its easier to make mistakes and they are amplified :)


Oh I understand. You guys seem to want your passes to be easy.

Not at all like this pass.

Entrance;
Grand Valley Speedway_1.jpg
Grand Valley Speedway_2.jpg
Grand Valley Speedway_3.jpg


Apex;
Grand Valley Speedway_4.jpg


Exit;
Grand Valley Speedway_5.jpg


I had to work my butt off for a lap and a half to get into position to even think of pulling this off. @nmcp1 helped by not actively defending the shallow entrance. He apparently didn't think I would even try it, which, in hindsight, is as good a reason as any, to try. I didn't have overlap by our braking point, but I did by nmcp's turn in. He gave me the inside line, which was mine anyway, and we rolled through the apex in our lanes and I gave him the outside on exit. This kind of maneuver doesn't always pay off for the driver on the inside, especially for those low grip, low torque cages some of you prefer. In this case, catching nmcp by surprise, helped to make a successful, clean pass and a finishing position improvement.

Car won't turn, indeed. It did for me here.
 

Handlebar

Premium
3,968
United States
Herndon, VA
HandlebarMustash
I understand the D1 sentiment. Nobody can make an error, the power/track doesn't allow for making a position even if there is a minor wobble, and it is a 10 minute conga line.

On the flip side of that coin....

I would like to express the concern in lower divisions that the more error-inducing the power-weight ratio is, with less grip, the more things look like Keystone Cops, and less like racing, not for all, but for a not insignificant number.

--------

Setting up a gravel/snow room for a bit to see if my connection has improved. PP 490 or less, generally Rally cars, 1990's. 2 - 3 laps, then change it up.
 
Last edited:
357
United States
Delaware
fizzer82
Oh I understand. You guys seem to want your passes to be easy.

Oy vey, get the point you do not.

Lets take a step back.

Someone wondered why D1 wasn't a fan of the GTR. I explained because its too easy to drive and combined with a track with limited passing opportunities makes for not so fun races. That's all. Its not like the thread is flooded with D1 guys crying about the gtr.

Dont get me wrong, we had some good times in combo 3, but of the 3 the GTR got a majority (plurality technically) of votes for reasons I postulated.

We don't want easy passes, but for a more exciting clean sprint race, it helps to have cars that exaggerate mistakes, not cover them up.

This of course is all IMHO, but I think a lot of our division would agree.

On the flip side of that coin....

I would like to express the concern in lower divisions that the more error-inducing the power-weight ratio is, with less grip, the more things look like Keystone Cops, and less like racing, not for all, but for a not insignificant number.

Agreed, and thats why we have voting. But, I do encourage anyone to stretch your comfort zone. Go drive a yellow bird on the ring for a few laps on comfort tires - you'll come off the track a better driver than you entered :)
 

Handlebar

Premium
3,968
United States
Herndon, VA
HandlebarMustash
Been here 2 1/2 years, @fizzer - I have learned that.

I also learned that it is easy for the higher/lower divisions to forget the frustrations of the other side when choosing combos.

Personally, I choose to vote to keep whichever combo seems to have the closest/cleanest/enjoyable racing, across divisions, even if I am not the best at it. That is my style, not expecting all to do the same.

Son is ready for some Dad time.
 

Dragonwhisky

Premium
5,829
United States
GTPlanet
dragonwhisky
Oy vey, get the point you do not.

....

Agreed, and thats why we have voting. But, I do encourage anyone to stretch your comfort zone. Go drive a yellow bird on the ring for a few laps on comfort tires - you'll come off the track a better driver than you entered :)

I do get the point. It just doesn't appear to be the one you think it should be. One driver asked and more than one D1 driver responded with their dissatisfaction with the car.

As you say, it's why we vote, and, it would appear that no matter who's point is being missed, either the GTR or GVS is going bye bye.

I just can't wait to get a 300 or less HP car with rocks for tires. Oh wait, I'll be driving one of those to work tomorrow morning.
 
357
United States
Delaware
fizzer82
I do get the point. It just doesn't appear to be the one you think it should be. One driver asked and more than one D1 driver responded with their dissatisfaction with the car.

I dunno, it sounds like you're assuming you understand people's motivations and perhaps you do not. I don't think anyone dedicates time to running in a league like snail if they want to have an evening full of easy passes :cheers:
 
733
United States
Nor Cal
Neovre
Let's not take this conversation too far, there will be combos that higher divs like and lower divs like. Someone asked for D1 thoughts we answered, we aren't pointing fingera at prize winners either. Why are we getting rebuttles like we are accusing the combo or the prize winner who picked this combo? Who I believe is also a D1 lol @LLOYDZELITE69 .

This is a forum/ thread, there will be more than 1 person replying. That's the nature. :banghead:🤬:banghead:

:indiff:
 
2,247
United States
Las Vegas
Devintheninja504
Let's not take this conversation too far, there will be combos that higher divs like and lower divs like. Someone asked for D1 thoughts we answered, we aren't pointing fingera at prize winners either. Why are we getting rebuttles like we are accusing the combo or the prize winner who picked this combo? Who I believe is also a D1 lol @LLOYDZELITE69 .

This is a forum/ thread, there will be more than 1 person replying. That's the nature. :banghead:🤬:banghead:

:indiff:
from someone from a lower division, i didnt like the gtr either
 

Dragonwhisky

Premium
5,829
United States
GTPlanet
dragonwhisky
I dunno, it sounds like you're assuming you understand people's motivations and perhaps you do not. I don't think anyone dedicates time to running in a league like snail if they want to have an evening full of easy passes :cheers:
No assumptions here. Just going by what I read.

I personally hate it because the car does not turn.

This and passing opportunities are few and far between without someone making a really big mistake.
Also, @LLOYDZELITE69 is entirely too fast in that car ;)

THAT!
And you're still relatively down the order for race 2. Therefore not a good combo. :crazy:
Parade most of the lap and then almost a guaranteed pass on the front straight. It's as artificial as F1 these days...... I said it, didn't I?

Unless the person in front of you is directly behind someone. Then you just have to sit and wait for a mistake. Even if you get a better run off of the last corner than the guy in front of you it's almost impossible to get by him in there are at least 3 cars in line.

AND if you get dropped by that train you are DONE

Nonono, but the point is when you have a car that is very stable and hard to make mistakes combined with a track with not a ton of racing room, it doesn't make for great racing.
How do you get around a track faster than the next guy? Make fewer, smaller mistakes than he does and recognize them sooner. Everyone makes mistakes, but the more experience / skill you have the fewer & smaller you make. Thats why higher division drivers tend to like oversteery, lower grip cars for racing excitement - its easier to make mistakes and they are amplified :)

That was you, fizzer, who pointed out the higher division drivers like loose cars, and then go on to state how they are easier to make mistakes. Now, I'm not formally trained in logic, but that tells me, by one of your own comments, regarding taking a certain car to a certain track making a person a better driver, you would want the harder of the conditions to exist. But that could just be me, making assumptions.

Yes, I did go back and collect all those quotes.
 
357
United States
Delaware
fizzer82
No assumptions here. Just going by what I read.

That was you, fizzer, who pointed out the higher division drivers like loose cars, and then go on to state how they are easier to make mistakes. Now, I'm not formally trained in logic, but that tells me, by one of your own comments, regarding taking a certain car to a certain track making a person a better driver, you would want the harder of the conditions to exist. But that could just be me, making assumptions.

Yes, I did go back and collect all those quotes.

I missed the logical leap you made where wanting more passing opportunities = want easy passes.

Maybe it's a difference in our definition of a mistake. The me it's something like, oh he got on the power a tad too hard and the rear twitched slightly too much, maybe now I can capitalize on this run off the corner I have and try to make a move into the next corner. I'm not talking mistakes like oh he flew off the track and now I get the position.

When cars are uber stable and grippy you just don't see as many of those little mistakes that cost a 10th here and there and make 10 minute races the most fun.
 

Handlebar

Premium
3,968
United States
Herndon, VA
HandlebarMustash
Yeah, costing a tenth here and there is totally fine by me.

Cars that fly off the track or into walls frequently are not a tenth here and there.
 

jobyone

Because Racecar
Premium
3,595
United States
New England
jobyone71
Changing the Subject slightly;) DTC is happening tomorrow night. If you have never given it a try now is you chance. Its fun and laid back with some great racers.



Tuesday Race Night
(Event will take place in a friends only room)


07/22/2014 at 10:00 PM EST/ 7:00 pm PST


This event will run with a combined PP of:
1820

The first two races will run with a combined PP of:

1150 (SS)
All cars PP must be between 546 and 604

The second two races will run with a combined PP of:
670 (CS)
All cars PP must be between 318 and 352

Qualifying and the first race will take place at

Fuji GT

If you would like to participate in the next event please post in this thread that you would like to take part. I will add your name to the list. You can also add your name and car lineup to the

sign up sheet

 
1,435
Canada
Mission, British Columbia
BC_BOYZZ
This whole conversation about high grip/little passing opportunities reminds me of a Combo from back in March (Maybe April?) The Maita Roadster Touring car at Tsukuba. You want to talk about no passing opportunities? Well being the one who was literally glued to the bumper of @ParkerMO125's bumper for the three weeks it was around, (It took a near flawless drive to even keep up with him ) he had to race with no mistakes in order to win. He'd be faster than I in some sections, and I'd learn from it and get ready to make a move but he'd learn where I was quicker and he'd ace my 'good section'. Close racing like that pushes you to your limit and then some. I sure learned a lot about setting up passes & defending positions that month, and I truly believe high grip, close racing drastically improves driver awareness, patience, and discipline.
 

Dragonwhisky

Premium
5,829
United States
GTPlanet
dragonwhisky
I missed the logical leap you made where wanting more passing opportunities = want easy passes.

Maybe it's a difference in our definition of a mistake. The me it's something like, oh he got on the power a tad too hard and the rear twitched slightly too much, maybe now I can capitalize on this run off the corner I have and try to make a move into the next corner. I'm not talking mistakes like oh he flew off the track and now I get the position.

When cars are uber stable and grippy you just don't see as many of those little mistakes that cost a 10th here and there and make 10 minute races the most fun.

It's not much of a leap. You want to learn and get better, do the thing that's harder or the thing you're not as good at. More opportunities doesn't necessarily mean easier, but it allows one to pass over one because another comes in the next corner. 10 chances vs 3 gives much better odds and by it's very nature is "easier" to accomplish.

At any rate, it doesn't appear that either one of us will convince the other, so if you're still interested in "righting the ship" and have the time, let me know when you're available.