100% gold n drift

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<Kagoi>

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After one week of getting golds I have finally achieved all gold on all licences and time trials in arcade mode ^^ (in PAL version)

I have also come to the conclusion that there is one definate circumstance where drift is definately faster than grip (I was pretty annoyed when ppl said that drift is never faster than grip) .. at 180 degree relatively tight turns where a good fast change in angle will be extrememly benificial.

OK dont stop reading this post yet cos youve heard all this before in the many paged post where it discusses all this stuff but there are definate examples where Drift beats Grip.

Oreca Viper @ Laguna Seca 'S' licence 6 - At turn 1 (the hairpin) i have achieved much better results in terms of time making that turn while drifting

Griffith 500 @ SS11 'S' licence 7 - I have drifted all the hairpin type turns and ended up getting gold but slightly slower than the demo time ... if drift were really slow then shouldnt i have not been able to get gold in the first place?

Anyways tell me if u want my full explination and reasonalble logic behind why drift can be faster than grip (keinetic/static friction stuff i know and i have taken that into accout). And yes i am bragging =)
 
not this again, welcome to gtp
but about ur point
grip= more accel in turns and more traction+ times to go around a track
drift=less accel or alot of it but in somepoint u have to slow down
and ur tire wear breaks down due to loss of traction and in the end of the turn u have to regain that accel
 
I agree with the first post. And I always drift when I do that licenses. And I also drifted in the wet circle with the Corvette (and I got gold).
 
Surely that should read "I have also come to the conclusion that there is one definate circumstance where drift is definately faster than grip for me" - just because you are quicker on certain parts of a track by "drifting" doesn't mean that it is the quickest method there.
 
i agree with Famine, but i don't disagree with Kagoi either...

one way PROVE that drift is faster than grip in a hairpin is to run two very fast laps... 1 lap where u drift the hairpins, and one lap where you ONLY use GRIP. After, run them both with the Analyzer .

in MY opinion, drift is FASTER than grip only in hairpins that have NARROW EXITS , the perfect example would be Turn 1 of Laguna Seca, whereas grip would be faster than drift in a hairpin like Turn 4 of Rome Circuit.

- :dunce:
 
i do alot of course racing IRL, drift seems slower to me i try not to drift when im racing or going for quick lap times, that and i try to save my tires..they are expensive. GT3 physics arnt perfectly accurate to reallity. In GT3, i would have to say for the most part drift is faster if you happen to pick up the skill nicely. but in the true nature of high performance driving, i wouldnt reccommend drifting to get good lap times.
 
Originally posted by Wingsofwar
i do alot of course racing IRL, drift seems slower to me i try not to drift when im racing or going for quick lap times, that and i try to save my tires..they are expensive. GT3 physics arnt perfectly accurate to reallity. In GT3, i would have to say for the most part drift is faster if you happen to pick up the skill nicely. but in the true nature of high performance driving, i wouldnt reccommend drifting to get good lap times.
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Agreed....

I have also raced (grip), and drifted IRL, and I can account to the fact that grip is faster than drift, unless your talking about a true 4 wheel drift (which is more grip than drift anyway)......

If you have 2 equally skilled drivers, 1 drift, 1 grip, the grip driver will always come out on top...... As Famine said:

"just because you are quicker on certain parts of a track by "drifting" doesn't mean that it is the quickest method there."


BTW, Go NW!!!

I live an hour north of you, in Skagit County.... Also, Pergatory lives just south of you, in Olympia.......



;)
 
Originally posted by Wingsofwar
i do alot of course racing IRL, drift seems slower to me i try not to drift when im racing or going for quick lap times, that and i try to save my tires..they are expensive. GT3 physics arnt perfectly accurate to reallity. In GT3, i would have to say for the most part drift is faster if you happen to pick up the skill nicely. but in the true nature of high performance driving, i wouldnt reccommend drifting to get good lap times.
Click to expand...
I think people get exhibition drifting and speed drifting confused a bit too much...of course exhibition drifting is going to be slower. Drifting uses pretty much the proper "racing line"allowing the driver to brake later and accelerate earlier, breaking traction to keep higher revs through a corner to have a faster exit speed.
 
Kagoi... here is my logic

Let's just SAY that you've mastered the drifting technique...
WHAT says that you know equally how to grip drive?
Perhaps your drifting techniques are better than your grip... i believe that even in hairpins, the BEST of grip will outrun the BEST of drift...
 
Originally posted by ForcedInduction
Let's just SAY that you've mastered the drifting technique...
WHAT says that you know equally how to grip drive?
Perhaps your drifting techniques are better than your grip... i believe that even in hairpins, the BEST of grip will outrun the BEST of drift...
Click to expand...



Originally posted by SR20DET
anyway, once again...

***can drift be faster than grip???***

YES... why i say yes? because it depends on who's driving against who... right?
Click to expand...
 
Ok im getting tierd of arguing with people who won't accept that drift is faster than grip. Maybe your reason is that your drift is always slower than my grip and the sliding rubs of lots of speed in the turn. Well think about this ...
- At a hairpin grip drivers will often be tapping the accelerator little by little to get around the turn and then flooring it when the time is right. Flooring it too early will cause understeer as weight is shifted to the back and turning power is decreased.
- When drifting as long as the drift angle (rear wheel slip angle) is quite low, then large amounts of gas pedal can be used in the turn as weight is shifted back to the rear tyres where the traction is needed to make the turn .. since the front wheels aren't really helping with the turn at all in a drift. So ultimately, drift allows much more use of the throttle and also more effective use since it does not cause understeer.

This is going to be my last post about this argument mainly because it's annoying to argue when its difficult to come to a definate conclusion.

Drift is Definately faster at relatively small hairpins where fast angle change is valuble. If it isn't for you then use a smaller drift angle and apply more gas, and if it still doesnt work due to you hitting the outside wall then lower your entry speed.
 
Originally posted by <Kagoi>
Maybe your reason is that your drift is always slower than my grip
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You're making the exact same point, but backwards - then getting annoyed at people for saying it.

Maybe my drift IS slower than your grip. But maybe your drift is slower than my grip. I'd lay money on your anything being slower than Arco/Wiese's grip though.


No-one is doubting that, for you, the instances you describe result in drift being faster than grip. But it's a non-scientific test and the results are thus meaningless to anyone who ISN'T you. No-one's taking a pop at you - or drifting - though. Chill.
 
lol... sorry man, but you need to do more research, and study physics a little better...... I particularly liked this quote:

since the front wheels aren't really helping with the turn at all in a drift
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lol, you have no idea what you are talking about...... Your front wheels (FR) should be gripping 99% of the time... The front wheels control the line of the drift.... the throttle controls the angle..... If the front wheels were doing nothing, you would be understeering off the track....

Furthermore, this has been disputed many times over... and anyone with real world knowledge has come to the acceptance that grip will always be faster, under ideal conditions, and equally skilled drivers.......

Now, as SR20DET said:


***can drift be faster than grip???***

YES... why i say yes? because it depends on who's driving against who... right?
Click to expand...

This is completely true..... The reason why noobs will always try and dispute this, is because of this simple fact...

They go around a track, and get a better time drifting, or they beat their friends drifting, or whatever...... This in no way means, that drifting is the fastest way around a track.... As Famine said:

Surely that should read "I have also come to the conclusion that there is one definate circumstance where drift is definately faster than grip for me" - just because you are quicker on certain parts of a track by "drifting" doesn't mean that it is the quickest method there.
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Exactly......

That's all I'm going to say about this matter... It has been argued to death, and should be left alone.....




;)
 
I like getting gold on that 60m circle by drifting, it's kinda cool to watch the computer grip a lap with your car right in front of it sideways.:lol:
 
Originally posted by <Kagoi>
Ok im getting tierd of arguing with people who won't accept that drift is faster than grip. Maybe your reason is that your drift is always slower than my grip and the sliding rubs of lots of speed in the turn. Well think about this ...
- At a hairpin grip drivers will often be tapping the accelerator little by little to get around the turn and then flooring it when the time is right. Flooring it too early will cause understeer as weight is shifted to the back and turning power is decreased.
- When drifting as long as the drift angle (rear wheel slip angle) is quite low, then large amounts of gas pedal can be used in the turn as weight is shifted back to the rear tyres where the traction is needed to make the turn .. since the front wheels aren't really helping with the turn at all in a drift. So ultimately, drift allows much more use of the throttle and also more effective use since it does not cause understeer.

This is going to be my last post about this argument mainly because it's annoying to argue when its difficult to come to a definate conclusion.

Drift is Definately faster at relatively small hairpins where fast angle change is valuble. If it isn't for you then use a smaller drift angle and apply more gas, and if it still doesnt work due to you hitting the outside wall then lower your entry speed.
Click to expand...

Well you can't expect everyone to agree with you. Especially when your explanation arn’t exactly air tight. Anyways some ideas have merit but they aren’t really true for the reasons you pointed out. Howerver, I know where you are getting this illusion that drift is faster. I have said this a number of times in other “drift is faster then grip discussions”… other then 4-wheel-drifting, cars that naturally under steer i.e, Oreca viper, Gt40, need to be drifted slightly past the 4-wheel-drift line at the entrance of a turn to avoid understeer at the exit thus allowing the throttle to be applied earlier, giving you a faster line. Now this doesn’t mean drift is faster then grip it just means that cars that are set up badly and under steer in GT3 need to drifted to get the maximum potential out of them. In the end, if the cars were set up better and didn’t understeer they wouldn’t need the to be drifted. A perfect example of this is S2(gt40 on Seattle) and the Oreca viper on Laguna. Even in the demo for gold times the driver drifts these cars. I’m pretty sure drifting these cars is quite unavoidable if you want to drive fast.
 
I can see what point Kogoi is trying to make, but just because he is faster at certain corners using a little bit of drifting does not prove that drift is faster than grip.
I also find a little bit of power oversteer is benificial to me at these slow corners as it tends to rotate the back of the car around the corner quicker. (Viper at A6, GT1 at A8 and GT40 at A2. The handbrake also helps the GT40 around the last 180 at S2.)
Without a little bit of power oversteer at these tracks I dont think I could have beaten the gold time with my present level of skill. A driver with higher skill will be quicker using purely grip.

Would this small angle and short duration drift be better described as power oversteer?
Lets use the term drifting to describe the large angle and long duration power slides which we all think drifting is.
 
I'm starting to be a little tired about this arguements. (drift faster than grip)

Just ask you a question: Where ends grip and where starts the slide (or drift)?

Because if we open the book of physics, we're sliding all time, all over the place.

When you turn your steering wheel to turn your car (for example you turn the wheels 30º to one side), the car won't turn 30º, it will turn 29, 28 or less. The difference is called drift angle (but from the wheels not from the car. Forget about the sport of drifting at least 5 minutes). I've studied in University that if that drift angle gets higher, the tyres have more grip, thus you can go faster through a corner.
The thing is: if the four wheels have that drift angle very high but the car seems to be "gipping", its called the four wheel drift.

I re-build the question: Is the four wheel drift a grip tecnique or a drift tecnique?

;)
 
its a drift teQnique hehehe cauz a large loss of traction and the angle being being controlled is called a drift so yea...
 
Originally posted by Sheron
I'm starting to be a little tired about this arguements. (drift faster than grip)

Just ask you a question: Where ends grip and where starts the slide (or drift)?

Because if we open the book of physics, we're sliding all time, all over the place.

When you turn your steering wheel to turn your car (for example you turn the wheels 30º to one side), the car won't turn 30º, it will turn 29, 28 or less. The difference is called drift angle (but from the wheels not from the car. Forget about the sport of drifting at least 5 minutes). I've studied in University that if that drift angle gets higher, the tyres have more grip, thus you can go faster through a corner.
The thing is: if the four wheels have that drift angle very high but the car seems to be "gipping", its called the four wheel drift.

I re-build the question: Is the four wheel drift a grip tecnique or a drift tecnique?

;)
Click to expand...

That's a good point, Sheron, but it has already been discussed. True 4 wheel drift, is a grip technique.... It is not used for exhibition, it is used to gain more speed through a corner, and you aren't even drifting, you're using more traction than you normally would be, grip driving.........

So, no one is arguing that 4 wheel drift (grip technique) is faster, because it definitely can be.......

Drifting is never faster than grip, as you lose too much of your available traction, to be any faster, than grip..........

Can we finaly drop this?....




;)
 
Originally posted by silviadrifter

Can we finaly drop this?....
Click to expand...


Of course not. If we did, half of the conversations in this forum would stop. Then if we could drop the "What's your favorite drift car?" threads and the "How do I drift?" threads, this forum would only have like one new thread per week.




-Mark
 

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