2.06 physics/tire grip levels... what you think about it?

[OK8]

*issue with GT86 without ABS*

Like others have said, you have too much front braking and while all the weight is shifted to the front you're turning slightly which brings the rear around immediately.

2/0 3/1 and 4/1 brake balances have always worked well for me in roadcars, but you can always ask JDMKING for advice.

On topic: I haven't really noticed much difference since 2.06, though I rarely seem to notice any differences anyway. Ever since SPEC II (and even before that) the games has felt fantastic and I'm glad they haven't ruined it.

 

[XEPEGTP]

You used Racing Soft tyres

Exactly, toomuch grip!

Brakes strength varies for every car, the Enzo has incredibly tight Carbon brakes and they are easy to lockup, i struggle with even a 5-2 bal, where as other supercars feel fine like this.

So Amar, exactly what has changed for you?
As far 'as tire grip, wear, warming , ABS0 brakes and suspension/weight transfer?

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Ah why this region thing exists.. we play the same game!
Tried importing the replays but does not show up in the game

Ok, I have uploaded 2 videos, they kind of suck taken with my mobile, but still viewable, just ...


Toyota FT86, stock, Racing Soft, no ABS, BB 7/5


Ferrari 458, stock, Comfort Medium, no ABS, BB 7/5


I never use more than 40% brake on FT86, while on Ferrari the max force used was 60%. This was not possible before 2.06 update, it seems no ABS brake force have been re-calibrated, similar BB value with pre 2.06 would have locked the wheels easily at that brake force. I am really sorry about the video quality

EDIT : Dodzzz, if you still have instability or twitchy rear end while braking, try to raise the front bias, say BB 4/1, 3/0, whatever suits you, then make sure when you turn while braking, never apply more than a quarter bar brake force, that way you can still turn, and smoothly eased off during hard braking, don't just let go off the brakes. Get used to threshold brake is also a good practice. Any tires or suspension setup a car may have, without ABS, the key is smooth precise brake operation and feel the car when it starts to loses it's balance or when it's about to have wheel lock ups, eased on the brakes ...

-2nd video taken with better quality

 

[Dodzzz]

@Ridox2JZGTE
Thanks a lot for the videos and the tips!
amazing you can brake smoothly with BB 7/5! I had to change it to 3/1 to make it drivable for me.. I guess I'll try again tomorrow with DFGT (been using DS3 for some time for comfort reason, thus the sudden let off of the brakes)

 

[Stradivis]

@Ridox2JZGTE
Thanks a lot for the videos and the tips!
amazing you can brake smoothly with BB 7/5! I had to change it to 3/1 to make it drivable for me.. I guess I'll try again tomorrow with DFGT (been using DS3 for some time for comfort reason, thus the sudden let off of the brakes)

Also, on the suspension subject, have tighter springs where the weight is. Since the little Toyota has a front engine, have the springs a tad tighter on the front end, unless you use ballast to level the car's weight. In a tight track like Nurburgring, your setup can lead to an unresponsive front end, where it sinks during corners causing understeer and eventual snap oversteer.

But the best way is to assure the setup is working with your driving style, when you can run consistent laps without having to fight the car.

Bruce Lee once said that a car in a track is like water: it can flow, or it can crash. Be the water, be like... Oh wait. Nevermind...

 

[diegorborges]

Bruce Lee once said that a car in a track is like water: it can flow, or it can crash. Be the water, be like... Oh wait. Nevermind...

C'MON! Now continue with your speech.

When I read Bruce Lee and cars... it was getting really interesting.

All of you, thanks for your toughts and hints... No-ABS driving is a completely new world for me. Like I said sometimes, I usually have ABS-off on my older cars or the ones that doesn't come with ABS from factory. But as we know, it does more than only the ABS effect. I'll think about adopting no-ABS on all my cars.

That will take a while tho. On DS3, it's tricky!

 

[RedBaron]

I've tested new patch with my carnut friends on our weekend house whole weekend. And I have to say that physics have stepped one step further into perfection. Not only FFB is much better and more direct, but cars have much more "live" suspension with more naturally appearing of understeer and oversteer. In the end, it's more like a real car again. Thanks for it, PD. It's nice to see this level of polishing of almost two year old game.

 

[amar212]

So Amar, exactly what has changed for you?
As far 'as tire grip, wear, warming , ABS0 brakes and suspension/weight transfer?

Well, everything

I drove so many cars throughout the weekend and I am just amazed by the new feel on the wheel.

RedBaron said it great in the post above, key to the new feel is physics of the suspensions, especially the front axle and feel of weightshift while braking. Another field is the redefined characteristics of the compounds, where they need longer to heat up (which is great, back to the legendary Prologue levels where more than one lap was needed to get the compound into the *working area*) and they obviously lasts longer as long as you can keep them out of the *red*.

Add the "GTAcademy" FFB into the above mix and we have another great physics update.

As for ABS0 braking, most notable change comes from the above mentioned refinement of the front axle suspension and new tyre-grip characteristics. I had to literally change all the Brake Bias values on all cars in order to compensate for the changes. For instance, I had to change BB on Lotus Esprit (Comfort Soft) from 4/2 to 3/1 in order to combat front axle oversteer. Same for Ford GT40 LM Spec II (Racing Hard) where it came back from 6/2 to 5/1. Third example is F430 (Comfort Soft) where I changed from 5/2 to 4/1.

Great work, no doubts about it.

 

[XEPEGTP]

OK good i just wanted to know that i wasnt hallucinating/placebo-ing.

I dont use a wheel but even i could feel the difference!

Any word on "track temperature" ? Drove a 430S SH tire at Nordschleife around 6 am and grip was like ice , tires wouldn't heat, tried again around 7pm and it was normal.

 

[OK8]

Any word on "track temperature" ? Drove a 430S at Nordschleife around 6 am and grip was like ice , tires wouldn't heat, tried again around 7pm and it was normal.

Very interesting point! I can't say I've noticed this myself but it would be great for PD to implement something like this.

 

[tfujiwara]

I drifted many times before with my DFP wheel in my 5.7 GTO. After 2.06, everything feels weird. I frustrated to get the perfect drifts I used to get in Tsukuba. I thought it was the force feedback that only changed. But I seem to oversteer more often.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Another field is the redefined characteristics of the compounds, where they need longer to heat up (which is great, back to the legendary Prologue levels where more than one lap was needed to get the compound into the *working area*) and they obviously lasts longer as long as you can keep them out of the *red*.

Tires not heating up doesn't make them last longer in my experience. They still wear even when they are a darker shade of blue. We raced a couple of seasons in the Suzuki Cappuccino and you can't get the tires to heat up in that thing and yet they still wore. And if they don't heat up you don't get the same grip or braking force which can cause them to go "red" more often if you aren't careful, inducing even more wear.

I believe that the game mimics real life in this respect, in that the quicker the tires come up to ideal temperature, the more grip they have and as long as you drive within the limits of that grip, that's the best way to maximize their life.

 

[Stradivis]

Any more reports about tire temperature?

 

[Griffith500]

I did a very brief test in bright sunshine and under cloud cover on the Nürburgring 24hr, to see if it had an effect.
I used a stock LFA, on Sports Hards, without ABS (and with which I was actually struggling with setting up the brake bias properly for most of the test), and I used a DS3 when I usually use a G25. So, although all of that means it was totally inconclusive in reality, I'm not convinced there was a difference, to be honest.

I'd be better off taking a lightweight car on Comfort tyres and trying again with my wheel, after getting used to the car for a few laps or so.

 

[OK8]

Some others have said as well that they've had trouble setting up their brakes after the patch. I too have switched from 4/1 to 3/1 on most of my cars and with some I'm still quite uncertain. Earlier 4/1 used to work on almost anything but now there's a bit more to figure out.

 

[Stradivis]

I did a very brief test in bright sunshine and under cloud cover on the Nürburgring 24hr, to see if it had an effect.
I used a stock LFA, on Sports Hards, without ABS (and with which I was actually struggling with setting up the brake bias properly for most of the test), and I used a DS3 when I usually use a G25. So, although all of that means it was totally inconclusive in reality, I'm not convinced there was a difference, to be honest.

I'd be better off taking a lightweight car on Comfort tyres and trying again with my wheel, after getting used to the car for a few laps or so.

I did some laps on Madrid, with a Megane Sport. Since there's no weather and hence no temperature variance, it was good for comparing with my memories from before the update.

My impression is that tires take some more time to reach optimal performance. Can't tell how much it is, but seems longer. Or the grip variance is wider and more gradual than before.