20,000 credits under the UCD

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Which used car is best for under 20,000 credits?

Simple enough question - Which car is credit for credit just fast for the cash.

I know I had my own idea of what I expected to be fastest. But are there any stand out cars in the cheap end of the used car list?

I filtered out any car with under 100bhp. and many cars with under 10,000 credit cost, but so far a couple have crept through as I plan to do a full list running all this old clunkers to find out which is best.

---
Rules -
Cars use CS tyres (So far every car I have bought use this grade of tyre; which is nice)
No driver aids (So no ABS or TCS - But this is a personal preference thing - and may give a huge advantage to 4WD cars. Maybe.)
BB moved to 3/2 - I prefer it as a driver once I turn off the ABS.
No tuning - bolt on power gains,
Exceptions - Paint car and wheels and swap wheel.


I can't find a neat tabulated list of cars in price order - So just plan to check the UCD and purchase cars a I see them. - Usually this is 3 to 4 cars in a 5 day period.

What did I expect to do well?
Trouble is just how much do cars cost used. expected to find a GTR for under 20k same goes for a Lancer or an Impreza, but so far - I see nothing.

I knew the older RX7's would be good (And they have not let me down) Also the Silvia could be pretty racey for the cost. But I wasn't sure if some cars I thought would be good would prove to be a slow prospect.

It is academic as cash is all too easy to get, and you never have to use a "run what you brung" in a GT5 event.

The first test is currently a 3 lap run at Cape Ring Outer in the 500pp 4th Seasonal Event.

The cars are - in the 340-425pp area. But that is another test I'd like to see for myself, How useful are these PP figures. Is Power the statistic to look for. Does a lighter car have less of an advantage than you first think?

Is the "Level" of a car more of a thing to look for when choosing the ultimate hoopty car?

Cars tested so far.
Legnum VR4
Galant VR4
RX7 GTLimited 85
PT Cruiser
MX5 V-Special-2
Silvia 13 Q 91
Vibe GT
Corolla Levin GT Apex
RX7 Inifini-3
--
MR2 1600
SRT4 (dodge)
Corolla Aerotourer
Celica GTFour
Celica SS-2 (Calty)
MX5 S Special 1 95

So far the Corolla Levin felt great but was pretty slow. The Oldest RX7 has punched well above its under 10,000 credit price tag. The Front wheel drive Vibe and Cruiser were better than I expected. To be honest so far every run has been fun.

Which car would you pick off the top of your head to put into a long race if you had to use it as you bought it for under 20,000.

No Civics or Integras yet but I think they may perform well for the cost.
 
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Yeah, I'd think an RX7 would be a good choice too. I know the way I shred the front tires on FWD's that might not be the best choice for a long race. But bang for the buck, a DC2 is hard to beat. You might be able to get an early S2K under that limit too.
 
I would pick this car , again.

Here are few links I've gathered , which you may find usefull on the hunt for ultimate 20,000 Cr. car.



MadMax
 
I would go for my first ever car on GT5: the mitsubishi mirage cyborg ZR '97. it was under 20k and is a really good little hatch with good grip and plenty of power 👍
 
I'll look out for that Lancer, Oddly one of my rules was nothing under 10,000 but the 85 RX7 GTLimited is a real pocket rocket.

The next "test" will be just how much does a Race suspension and a professional tune improve on a car.

That will probably be a test run at the 4th seasonal 650 at Nurburgring - last place gets 120,000 credits...

But that will be much later.
I need to do more than a shake down test at Cape ring. May end up at Trial Moutain in the 1st online seasonal (memory check) - 5 laps I think and a track which need high speed handling and out and out power to get up those inclines.
 
I've had a lot of fun with the '83 300ZX. IIRC, the car itself was right around 10k and with everything total, was a lot of fun to race in the 500pp seasonals.
 
Cool day - Borrowed Mad Max's Lanevo 7 RS - A car that I would never really think of, a second class GSR?

Well - I borrowed the car - Zero changes 28623.1 miles - 45797km scotia white 19,414 credits Max lists, I trust him!

This car is so far THE bench mark. Why? Let look in the engine bay... - ALuminium bonnet - sweet...

All aluminum construction. Transversally mounted In-line 4 cylinders model 4G63 Turbo. Bore: 85mm Stroke: 88mm, 1997 cc, water cooled. Compression ratio: 8.8

This turbocharged 4 pot cranks out - well, still cranks out 296bhp - no mods save the red oil lamp bulb needed replacing, it has been on so long.

As I was borrowing this car I had to do the full raft of tests one after the other.

Cape Ring - 1m53.2 - 5m44.1
Times may be a bit off but this car almost won the event! A bit more care on my part and a win would be very possible, Indeed I had got the lead with a clean pass into the final hairpin, but just got out muscled by a TVR over the line.

This car was the first I had to buy Comfort tyres for, comes with 15inch Sport Hards as standard. With the ABS and TCS off the car was a bit - twitchy into corners, but once you got the car sideways it would slide sideways rather than rotate fully into a spin - I need to drive with a different approach than usual, the engine has so much power and grunt I could dolly the corner entry, and maximise the exit (I didn't of course, I slamed the Lanevo7 like it was a hirecar.) Cape ring it just flexed its powerful engine.
Handling isn't - intuitive - but once you get it, it isn't that bad.

I then took it to Nurburgring, This was a run in 12th place, but a clean empty track.
8m27.3 - all clean, no curb hits grass cutting.

A Five lap run at Trial Mountain Circuit earned the win 1m44.6 fastest lap 8m48.7 race

by far the fastest, but is it a case of an expensive car that has miles that make it cheaper, but it still has alot of power.

Other run today was in a MR2 1600G (80's)

This car is a 1600 naturally aspirated car with just 121 bhp and 14 torques - Less than half of the Lanevo's -
Cape Ring 2m07.4 6m26.8
TMC 1m52.7 9m34.6
Nurby 9m26.1
So much slower than the last car, Very nimble in corners, no danger of running wide, but the lack of out and out power was the obvious weak point.

Bought a few more cars - a Mk2 Impreza, a Civic SiR-2, Galant GTO MR, 200SX MX5 VRLimited. The Nissan is level 2 and the Subaru is Level 4...

The 70's Gallant could be on a par with the MX5's - Not sure why some older cars have ramped up prices.
 
Still stunned at the pace of that RS Evo7 - but learnt that the RS model isn't cheap because it is lower spec, but because it has less bits and bobs on it so the rally version isn't bloated with user comforts and novice driver aids (cough cough - couldn't resist).

Did a few more races.
SRT4 Dodge - Quite punchy, but the 5 speed gearbox is a real pudding and the rev range seems off.
Celica SS-2 (modern) - Nice engine but terrible understeer on cold tyres, Caught me out at Trial Mountain at Double Jepardy - Almost flipped it. And this car has too much gearbox, 6 gears when the engine struggles to use the rev range for the first 5 gears.
Corolla RunX (modernish) - Very stable and planted, but the engine didn't have the ultimate power.

The Celica and Corolla were pretty evenly matched - each one faster than the other at different tracks.

Bought more cars, but it takes three game days to test... and I seem to buy more cars in that period. One unlikly car to test will be the Pug 206S16 - which look slike it has a crushed up "face" compared to the huge lamps and radiator vents of recent cars.

Another thing I've noticed is that CS tyres are a bit grippy, But I am too lazy to buy CM or CH tyres just yet. Too lazy.

Good fun to run a normal car at the ring though, but CS tyres work rather well at high speeds.

With luck next few cars won't be FF cars.

Still not seen a cheap GTR. but two Imprezza ( version 1 and 2) and a S14 Silvia (200sx) are waiting to be tested.
 
I love seeing people doing things for the sake of doing them, great work 👍

As for which car I'd pick for an impromptu endurance race... Despite the speed of 4WD cars, I'd have to go for either a Celica* or that Silvia you just bought.

*I think it's a 99 Celica I'm thinking of. It was my very first car in the game :)

EDIT: Yep, 99 Celica!
yllw_celica-ssii.jpg
 
Bit more today - completed a few tests old the early cars I had, the S13 Silvia Q at the ring and Trial Mountain. The 91 GTFour was a huge let down. Seemed to be heavy unstable and underpowered - The Silvia is underpowered but at least it tries to make a corner apex.

Bought even more cars, a Lantis, another MX5 and a MR2 roadster.

Now I am getting mroe results it seems obvious the winner is not going to be a pretty fresh car but a Big powerful car, that has lost some power and has black tar where the oil should go.

Also the Nurburgring and Cape Rings test really are a power test, with not as much driver skill - Trial Mountain - to me at least demands alot more focus. perhaps it is the first section which demands high speed acuracy and then the following bit has those tricky unsighted corners - Shame TMC isn't narrower - A 60's retro version of this track that was at least twice as narrow (Or half as wide if you prefer) with grass and hedge over runs.
 
The '97 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 can often be found for less than 20,000 credits. With around 270 horsepower out of the box and rear wheel drive, it's a pretty good deal.
 
All good calls so far, (Save the RS LanEvo7, which is borderline cheating, it is that good!)

I'll put a list here, Then I can edit it later.

Cape Ring Outer times
Fastest Lap - Race time - Car

XmXX.x - XmXX.x - Silvia S13 Q 91
XmXX.x - XmXX.x - PT Cruiser
2m05.9 - 6m21.6 - MX5 Miata Vspecial 2 (93)
2m00.4 - 6m03.8 - Savanna RX7 Infini (90)
2m04.8 - 6m15.8 - Vibe GT
2m01.9 - 6m09.3 - Gallant VR4
2m00.3 - 6m06.1 - Legnum VR4
2m06.1 - 6m20.9 - Corolla Levin GTApex
2m02.5 - 6m09.5 - Savanna RX7 GT Limited (85)
2m07.4 - 6m26.8 - MR2 1600G
1m56.1 - 5m52.2 - Dodge SRT4
2m02.9 - 6m11.8 - Corolla Aerotuner
2m03.1 - 6m10.1 - Celica SS-II (Calty)
2m01.7 - 6m08.8 - Celica GTFour (ST185)
1m54.4 - 5m45.7 - Lancer Evolution 7 RS
1m53.2 - 5m44.1 - Lancer Evolution 7 RS (Repeated)

Best lap - Race time - Car

All times are "8 tenths" laps, not really busting a gut to go fast but not pootling round either, gently finding the limits - but not staying there for tea and biscuits. (Someone say Biscuits?)

I need to put a "Introduce the cars" list - so you can see how used some of the cars are, Power levels, weight, torque, and the magic PP and Level values.

Also need to do lists for Nurburgring and Trial Mountain Circuit... and maybe put them in order too...

I think Mad Max put a link to an interesting thread about used cars and predicting the price when you know the millage... and I know I have alot of sub 20k cars unused with miles on the clock... So I'll have a peek to see how much my Camaro's would cost, and if under 20k, they can join the party.

Does make you wonder if they could have put a "mini game" or test in GT5 - where you have to use a real old clunker for a series of races, and it is up to you to pick well, and then nurse it through for cash tickets and prizes.

These runs so far I've tended to be in close battles for 7th place... so the races are like a SLOW catch the rabbit, but rather than pass cars easily I have to make good planed moves to pass 5 of them.

toodle pip
 
Here's a complete list of 20,000 Cr. and under UCD , cars.

Some cars require very high mileage to be buyable for under twenty thousand at UCD . :scared:


-----------------------

Acura
Integra Type R '01
RSX Type-S '04

Alfa Romeo
Spider 1600 Duetto '66

Alpine
A310 1600VE '73

Audi
A2 1.4 '02

Autobianchi
A112 Abarth '79

Buick
GNX '87

Chevrolet
Camaro SS '00 (cheaper than the Z28 below)
Camaro Z28 Coupe '97

Chrysler
PT Cruiser '00

Citroën
2CV Type A '54
C3 1.6 '02
Xsara VTR '03

Daihatsu
Copen Detachable Top '02
Cuore TR-XX Avanzato R (J) '97
MIRA TR-XX Avanzato R '97
MOVE CX '95
MOVE Custom RS Limited '02
MOVE SR-XX 2WD '97
MOVE SR-XX 4WD '97
Midget II D type '98
SIRION CX 2WD (J) '98
SIRION CX 4WD (J) '98
SIRION X4 (J) '00
STORIA CX 2WD '98
STORIA CX 4WD '98
STORIA X4 '00


Dodge
SRT4 '03

Eagle
Talon Esi '97

Fiat
500 F '65
500 L '69
500 R '72
Barchetta Giovane Due '00
Panda Super i.e. '90

Ford
Ka '01
Taurus SHO '98

Honda
1300 Coupe 9 S '70
ACCORD Coupe '88
ACCORD Euro-R '00
ACCORD Euro-R '02
BALLADE SPORT CR-X 1.5i '83
BEAT '91
BEAT Version F '92
BEAT Version Z '93
CITY Turbo II '83
CIVIC 1500 3door 25i '83
CIVIC 1500 3door CX '79
CIVIC SiR-II (EG) '91
CIVIC SiR-II (EG) '92
CIVIC SiR-II (EG) '93
CIVIC SiR-II (EG) '95
CIVIC TYPE R (EK) '98
CIVIC TYPE R (EP) '01
CIVIC TYPE R (EP) '04
CIVIC TYPE R (EP,EU) '01
CR-X SiR '90
CR-X del Sol SiR '92
FIT W '01
INSIGHT '99
INTEGRA TYPE R (DC2) '95
INTEGRA TYPE R (DC2) '98
INTEGRA TYPE R (DC2) '99
JAZZ 1.4 DSi SE Sport '01
LIFE STEP VAN '72
N360 '67
PRELUDE Si VTEC '91
PRELUDE SiR '96
PRELUDE SiR S spec '98
PRELUDE Type S '96
PRELUDE Type S '98
TODAY G '85
Z ACT '70

Hyundai
Tiburon Turbulance '99

Infiniti
G20 '90

Isuzu
117COUPÉ '68
PIAZZA XE '81

Lexus
IS 200 '98
IS 200 (J) '98
SC 300 '97
Europa Special '71

Marcos
Mini Marcos GT '70

Mazda
323F '93
Atenza Sports 23Z '03
Axela 23S '03
Carol 360 Deluxe'62
DEMIO GL-X '99
DEMIO SPORT '03
Eunos Roadster J-Limited II (NA) '93
Eunos Roadster S-Special I (NA) '95
Eunos Roadster SR-Limited (NA) '97
Eunos Roadster V-Special II (NA) '93
Eunos Roadster VR-Limited (NA) '95
Familia Sedan Sport 20 '02
Lantis Coupe 2000 Type R '93
MX-5 (NA) '89
MX-5 1.8 RS (NB,J) '98
MX-5 1600 NR-A (NB,J) '04
MX-5 1800 RS (NB,J) '00
MX-5 1800 RS (NB,J) '04
MX-5 J-Limited (NA,J) '91
MX-5 J-Limited II (NA,J) '93
MX-5 Miata (NA) '89
MX-5 Miata 1.8 RS (NB,J) '98
MX-5 Miata 1600 NR-A (NB,J) '04
MX-5 Miata 1800 RS (NB,J) '00
MX-5 Miata 1800 RS (NB,J) '04
MX-5 Miata J-Limited (NA,J) '91
MX-5 Miata J-Limited II (NA,J) '93
MX-5 Miata S Special I (NA,J) '95
MX-5 Miata SR-Limited (NA,J) '97
MX-5 Miata V-Special II (NA,J) '93
MX-5 Miata VR-Limited (NA,J) '95
MX-5 S-Special I (NA,J) '95
MX-5 SR-Limited (NA,J) '97
MX-5 V-Special II (NA,J) '93
MX-5 VR-Limited (NA,J) '95
Mazda2 '03
Mazda6 5-door '03
Protegé '02
RX-7 GT-LIMITED (FC,J) '85
RX-7 GT-X (FC,J) '90
RX-7 Type R (FD,J) '91
RX-7 Type R (FD,J) '93
RX-7 Type R-S (FD,J) '95
RX-7 Type RS (FD,J) '96
RX-7 Type RS-R (FD) '97
RX-7 Type RZ (FD,J) '95
RX-8 '03
Roadster 1.8 RS (NB) '98
Roadster 1600 NR-A (NB) '04
Roadster 1800 RS (NB) '00
Roadster 1800 RS (NB) '04
SAVANNA RX-7 GT-Limited (FC) '85
SAVANNA RX-7 INFINITI III (FC) '90
éfini RX-7 Type R (FD) '93
éfini RX-7 Type R-S (FD) '95
éfini RX-7 Type RS (FD) '96
éfini RX-7 Type RZ (FD) '95

Mercedes-Benz
A 160 Avantgarde '98

Mini
MINI COOPER '02
MINI ONE '02
Mini Cooper 1.3i '98

Mitsubishi
3000GT MR (J) '95
3000GT SL (J) 95
3000GT SL (J) '96
3000GT SL (J) '98
3000GT SR (J) '95
3000GT SR (J) '96
3000GT SR (J) '98
AIRTREK Turbo-R '02
COLT 1.5 Sport X Version '02
ECLIPSE GT '95
FTO GP Version R '97
FTO GP Version R '99
FTO GPX '94
FTO GPX '97
FTO GPX '99
FTO GR '94
FTO GR '97
GALANT 2.0 DOCH Turbo VR-4 '89
GALANT GTO MR '70
GTO SR '95
GTO SR '96
GTO SR '98
GTO Twin Turbo MR '95
LEGNUM VR-4 Type V '98
Lancer 1600 GSR '74
Lancer EX 1800GSR IC Turbo '83
Lancer Evolution GSR '92
Lancer Evolution II GSR '94
Lancer Evolution III GSR '95
Lancer Evolution V GSR '98
Lancer Evolution VI RS '99
Lancer Evolution VI RS T.M. '00
Lancer Evolution VII RS '01
MINICA DANZAN ZZ '89
MIRAGE 1400GLX '78
MIRAGE CYBORG ZR '97

Nissan
180SX Type X '96
200SX '96
200SX (S14) '96
240SX '96
240SX (S14) '96
300ZX 2seater (Z32) '89
BLUEBIRD 1600 Deluxe (510) '69
BLUEBIRD Hardtop 1800SSS (910) '79
Be-1 '87
CUBE EX (FF/CVT) '02
CUBE X '98
EXA CANOPY L.A. Version Type S '88
Fairlady Z 280Z-L 2seater (S130) '78
Fairlady Z 300ZX (Z31) '83
MICRA '03
March 12c 5door '03
March G# '99
PAO '89
PRIMERA 2.0Te '90
PRIMERA 20V '01
PRIMERA 20V (EU) '01
SILEIGHTY '98
SILVIA K's (S13) '88
SILVIA K's (S13) '91
SILVIA K's AERO (S14) '93
SILVIA K's AERO (S14) '96
SILVIA Q's (S13) '88
SILVIA Q's (S13) '91
SILVIA Q's AERO (S14) '93
SILVIA Q's AERO (S14) '96
SILVIA Varietta (S15) '00
SILVIA spec-R AERO (S15) '99 (cheaper than the spec-S below)
SILVIA spec-S AERO (S15) '99
SKYLINE 1500Deluxe (S50D-1) '63
SKYLINE 2000GT-B (S54B) '67
SKYLINE GTS-R (R31) '87
SKYLINE GTS-t Type M (R32) '89
SKYLINE GTS-t Type M (R32) '91
SKYLINE GTS25 Type S (R32) '91
SKYLINE HT 2000 RS-X Turbo C (R30) '84
SKYLINE HT 2000 Turbo RS (R30) '83
STAGEA 25t RS FOUR S '98

Opel
Corsa Comfort 1.4 '01
Tigra 1.6i '99

Peugeot
106 Rallye '03
106 S16 '03
206 CC '01
206 S16 '99

Pontiac
Vibe GT '03

Renault
Megane 2.0 IDE Coupe '00

Scion
xA '03
xB '03

Subaru
IMPREZA Coupe WRX typeR STi Version VI '99
IMPREZA Sedan WRX STi '94
IMPREZA Sedan WRX STi Version II '95
IMPREZA Sedan WRX STi Version III '96
IMPREZA Sedan WRX STi Version IV '97
IMPREZA Sedan WRX STi Version V '98
IMPREZA Sedan WRX STi Version VI '99
IMPREZA Sport Wagon WRX STi Version VI '99
LEGACY B4 RSK '98

Suzuki
ALTO LAPIN Turbo '02
ALTO WORKS RS-Z '97
ALTO WORKS SUZUKI SPORT LIMITED '97
Kei WORKS '02
MR Wagon Sport '04
WAGON R RR '98

Toyota
ALTEZZA AS200 '98
ALTEZZA RS200 '98
CARINA ED 2.0 X 4WS '89
CELICA 1600GT (TA22) '70
CELICA 2000GT-FOUR (ST165) '86
CELICA 2000GT-R (ST162) '86
CELICA GT-FOUR (ST205) '98
CELICA GT-FOUR RC (ST185) '91
CELICA GT-R (ST183, 4WS) '91
CELICA SS-II (ST202) '97
CELICA SS-II (ZZT231) '99
CELICA XX 2800GT '81
COROLLA LEVIN BZ-R '98
COROLLA LEVIN GT-APEX (AE86) '83
COROLLA RUNX Z AEROTOURER '02
MR-S S Edition '99
MR-S V Edition (6MT) '02
MR2 1600 G '86
MR2 1600 G-Limited Super Charger '86
MR2 G-Limited '97
MR2 GT-S '97
MR2 Spyder '99
MR2 Spyder (6MT) '02
PRIUS G (J) '02
SERA '92
SOARER 2.5GT-T '97
SPORTS 800 '65
SPRINTER TRUENO BZ-R '98
SPRINTER TRUENO GT-APEX '83
STARLET Glanza V '97
SUPRA 2.5GT Twin Turbo R '90
SUPRA SZ-R '97
VITZ F '99
VITZ RS 1.5 '00
VITZ RS Turbo '02
VITZ U Euro Sport Edition '00
VOLTZ S '02
WiLL VS '01
Yaris F (J) '99
Yaris RS 1.5 (J) '00
Yaris RS Turbo (J) '02
Yaris U Euro Sport Edition (J) '00
bB 1.5Z X Version '00
ist 1.5S '02

Triumph
Spitfire 1500 '74

Vauxhall
Corsa Comfort 1.4 '01
Tigra 1.6i '99

Volkswagen
Beetle 1100 Standard (Type-11) '49 (at 99999km / 399999km)
Golf GTI '76
Karmann Ghia Coupe (Type-1) '68
Lupo GTI '01
Lupo1.4 '02
New Beetle 2.0 '00

Volvo
240GLT Estate '88

-----------------------



MadMax
 
Great list, Some I will remove right away, under 100bhp - and very cheap cars (That tend to have under 100bhp anyhow.

Maybe later I will try out the low powered cheap cars, But even now I think I'll get the best used car under 10,000 credits with cars over 100bhp.

At the moment that is a FC RX7

--

Quite alot of cars have just missed the 20,000 cut as well, not quite used enough!

Alot of testing
 
Couple more races,
MX5 S Special
Mitsubishi GTO MR (70's)

The MX5 was good fun, and pushable - consistent, needs more power - but it is a nice junior car to find your lines in.

The old GTO was fatally slow, such a feeble power delivery.

I've now done all the cars I had bought prior to borrowing Mad Maxes hot tip - The LanEvo7RS
I've several cars still to run - highlights are the Silvia S14 and S15 models - A Lexus Altezza should be near the sharp end of good cars. The two early Impreza should do well, I'm not that good with 4wd cars, I certainly don't feel I get as much out of them as a "Skilled pilot" would.

The MX5 was really nice thinking about it, You can break traction - which is fun but it bleeds time every time you do it. Keeping it smooth and making sure those rear wheels are planted, for me at least, makes for a better lap time.
 
Do the 240SX's stand a chance? I would have thought they were contenders.
 
I think the 240SX = Silvia S14 ( I think)

I guess this car will show well, but it is alot of ponies down on power compared to the LanEvo7RS -

But I had a pretty hazy idea of which cars were good, And which cars are not.

The GTFour - is a car I've liked for years, but for this test, it is outclassed, underpowered, stodgy handling.

Really you need to look at mroe than just power and Torque numbers. Some cars have really thick meatly power curves and just want to get up and go. others have peaky power.

My main piece of exlporation was how FF and FR and MR and 4WD cars cross over in power, cost and PP scores.
Same PP value are FF cars faster?
I have no answers yet, I much prefer MR cars then FR than 4wd and FF last to get fun out of a lap, but which of these flavours is actually faster when the measure cost of car or Power of the engine or the PP rating or even the evel of the car.

Need to do much mroe testing, but Trial Mountain with a car on Comfort tyres 100pp under the rated value is fun as I am racing cars that are much closer to my own cars performance, Making a pass is much more, work up to it than if you jump in a SS shod car with 500pp. Which is good news for me as I've loads of test races to go!

A Silvia is up next - but it may be the 200SX... and not the Silvia Aero R Spec S15

I need to post up the cars milage and power weight pp and such like.

A back to back test of the same car but different millage would prove useful to me as well. How much does an old worn car lose out?
 
trackripper123
I'm not sure it is... But then again I'm probably wrong. :lol:

It is! 240SX (North American version)
200SX (Europe)
Silvia S14 (Japan)
 
Had an odd GT5 lock up yesterday - Trial Mountain in the Galant GTO MR (70's car) - For some reason the car never tripped the split timetraps. It registered the lap, but at the end of the race the car kept going - for a couple of laps - The only reason for this was I had to use the RA menu at the start of the race to turn off TCS and ABS... I may have been requesting this pop up menu as the car was rolling along to the start line.

Anyhow - enough history. I did the other events, but this car is just under powered - Nice enough car to chuck about at the ring, but Cape Ring Outer was full throttle from turn 1 to... the corner I call Toranaga... (The tight sharp left then longer right after the crest near the end of the lap before the huge esse section.)

Bought a few more cars... Actually a load of cars.
180SX - Should be good
Primera 90's, Celica 2000GT-R, - Very close FF cars matches well to the Mazda Familia.
Also picked up a second MR2 Spyder - but with Moon and Back Milage; Again it will be used for back to back comparison runs to see how much you lose buying a very well worn car. - If I was clever I would also repeat both cars after an Oil Change to compare same power but just worn chassis.
 
Little bit of this again, Had a Skyrim break from GT5 -

Did two events in the 200SX (Silvia S14). Car felt off. Seemed to lack high speed grip (Over 80mph) just washing out in corners. The Big fat Loop at Cape Ring Outer just spat the Nissan out wide. And it feels poor to have to lift mid sweeper, in a car that needs to put as many ponies as it can onto the track.

Bought a few of the current OCD, so plentty of room to earn cash from these seasonals... in the name of testing. Picked up some more cars, Yaris RS Turbo and its ancestor the Starlet Glanza. A few Lexus IS200's. A Lan Evo7 RS did turn up, but was outside the 20,000 limit.

I'm going to go over all 17 cars I've actually tested so far... and wrte a bit mroe up about them. dozens of cars bought, still to test and Mad Max has 3-4 cars to share in his - erm - share area? (Probably has a better name...).

But what do you judge and compare the cars on? Price? Level. Number of seats - Relative real cost versus the price of Beer that year (The only true comparison of cars over the years of course.)
All subjective, but often it is the little things that can make you like or dislike a car. annoying Exhaust note, Stodgy Gearbox, Anaemic power, - ooh pop up headlights!

At least by painting all the cars the same I won't have to be biased over the look of the cars colour. Driving Sim - No, I am a Racist... Race-ist...
 
More tests, the 200SX was nice enough, felt a bit under powered, 5 speed gearbox didn't help it feel faster over a lap.

I then ran a run in the version 2 Impreza. This car was fast, faster than the 200SX but it sort of felt like its true potential was hidden, Engine is down on power (Black oil and a realistic BHP score when you buy it. - This rel.tes to the LanEvo7RS... more on that later.) It also didn't seem to turn in as I'd like, The big spiral turn at CapeRing te Impreza would softly understeer wide. That said it had the poke to be able to live with several lifts in odd places over a lap. This may make the lap comparison a bit more limited as most cars can go much of the lap full banana, so the lap time really reflects how good the car is. But some cars are either badly handling or over powered so lose a chunk of time due to use of the middle pedal in odd places.

It should even itself out though.

Impreza WRX Version 2
271bhp/32.5/1240kg 78649km/429pp/16674cr/Level4
however when you get in the car ...
249bhp/30torques - 49155.9miles
So the car has lost 22 ponies over what you think but the PP score is constant, so I hguess the Power of the car is a hang over of the starting power. but the PP score is acurate to whatever the actual stats of a car are.

Thsi car came with Sport Hard tyres (SO I had to drop down to Comfy Softs)

Painted the car up - the back of the car has a WRX badge in a light green... So if you want to paint over it, you'll need to match the green (Lancia's York Green maybe?) but I can live with a Miami themed WRX badge on the back of the car.

Impreza. Nice engine note, red line is 7000 and only 5 gears makes it pretty easy to drive about. At Nurburg I was hitting the Rev Limiter in 5th on that final uphill straight.

Tends to over heat the outside front tyre in corners but as a 4wd car it is pretty stable. I would say the brakes are a bit weak at times, But that could just be entering corners faster than usual in a heavier car.

More cars bought... Couple of Civic Type R's (98 and 2001) an RX8 (In a rather good Nordic Green) an FTOGR97 and... my own Lancer EVolution 7 RS.

The LanEvo really is a monster compared to the rest... GT classes it as a Level 7 car and it has a PP score of 463.

Now I am hopeful this is the same as MadMax's car... could be a few km's either way on the odometer, both have the same PP score...

The interesting bit is when you buy this LanEvo it says it has...

Lancer EVolution 7 RS
276bhp/39/1320kg 43885km/463pp/19655cr/Level7
and MadMax's LanEvo7RS came with
296bhp/40/1320kg 28623.1miles 463pp

a crisp 20 bhp more than what the used car dealership tells you.

so 18 cars tested - and 30 cars in my garage waiting to be tested.

Got a few too close to call cars... close PP scores...
Yaris RS Turbo vs Starlet Glanza
Civic Duty - Type R vs Type R
RX8 vs Civic TypeR EP (398/397PP)

Predictions?

Now I've done a few of these tests... I shoudl be able to guesstimate how well the next car should perform... right?

Next up is... Civic SiR-II EG 92
167bhp/16torques/1040kg 39837km/372pp/12973cr/Level0

but the car actually has 12bhp less
155bhp/15torques/24989.8miles

TMC - 1m52
CROUT - 2m04
Nurburg - 9m18

These numbers really are guesses, not plotted graphs of lap times and PP numbers. just a skim through the times so far... and gauge it out.

I will forget these time when I do this test, I guess I have put times a bit slower than the car can do...
 
I started the games yesterday and my first car was a Opel Corsa , very good car , the only problem is the gears , very long , wich "hurt" the car on the accelaration. :)
17k with only 1,3xx Kms
 
Time is money. You should calculate how much speed you get per unit of cash. Like, K = C / V, where K is kilometer per hour cost, V is the velocity (average speed: track length/lap time) and C is the cost of the car.

One example: A track is 2500 meters long and a lap takes 2:17.500 to complete. The average speed is (2,5km/137,5 seconds)*60*60=65,5 km/h.

If the car cost 16 000 Cr we take 16000/65,5 = 244,4. So, each kilometer per hour costs 244,4 Credits.

It would be interesting to run budget races, and the winner is not the fastest car, but the one who pays the least money for each kilometer per hour. Would it be worth it to buy racing soft tyres? I can't remember right now how much they cost, but let's say 15 000 Cr. Let's also assume that they improve the lap time by 7 seconds. Suddenly the kilometer per hour cost is up at 449,5 Cr...

Would also be interesting to see how good the supercars can do compared to the small and cheap cars. Of course, the choice of track plays a big part here, but so it does in all racing.
 
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Nice Idea Eran.

It is a shame GT5 throws credits at you.

I could plug in the numbers for the Ring and Credit cost.

I was thinking of throwing an "expensive car" into the tests and a Dirt Cheap car. Then this would be the scale.

The lap time of the Cheap Car would be 00 and the Expensive car would be 100.

So lets say... I pick a 300pp car for the Clunker and a 500pp car for the Expensive one.
That should get a range of times... and then plug the numbers in... Dead easy. - But which cars?...


---
Credit comparison
PP comparisons
FF vs FR vs MR vs 4WD
 
I made a form, so anyone can just enter the numbers there and the number crunching is semi-automatic (I just need to drag three boxes in the spreadsheet).

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dFJjVTFlQ19RWjBDNXZySlRHUzJ6Q2c6MQ

It is a shame GT5 throws credits at you.

I'm always broke though :P I tend to buy too many cars just for the sake of "oh, I want one in that color too", or "okay, so I want one stock, one with sports tuning and one tuned to madness".

PP comparisons
FF vs FR vs MR vs 4WD

Didn't add questions for this though... I guess drivetrain can be figured out from the name of the car, but pp would be interesting. I can add that question to the name of the car I suppose.
 
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Not alot of testing this weekend, Every 3 day test session seems to chalk up two new cars to test!

Drove a Civic SiR2 - Nice enough, 5 gears, but struggles up hills FF so awkward to drive, and a mld case of the understeers. Engine note is nice, 8000 red line, Rev limiter kicks in a few hundred higher.

Next was a MX5 VR Special 95
Nice colour paint - So nice you can't respray it. (Artvin Excellent Combonation A or something) - Tan soft top... And my usual Orange wheels makes it look... I've no idea, but usually a see a few puddles of it out side of nightclubs...

Good drive, FR, 7000 red line, 5 gears but at Trial MountainI never really troubles 5th gear, 2nd will take you up to 55mph, 3rd will deal with anything under 80... so most of the lap I was in 3rd or 4th gear - Like some very old Arcade game with a High and Low gear.

Cars bought today...
Mitsubishi Eclipse 95 -
Used to race these turbo FF cars, I expect it to do well.

Honda Integra Type R (also from 1995)

They should compare well?
226/29.5/1330/406pp (Eclipse)
197/18.5/1060/399pp (Integra)

Seems even, but that Turbo Torque score is much higher... but the blubber on the Eclipse will count against it... will it? 270kilos...

Civic SiR2 numbers?
TMC - 1m52.0 (9m27)
CROUT - 2m01.4 (6m08.9)
NURBURG - 9m08.0

And what did I predict...

TMC - 1m52 (Not bad - Must have been a lucky guess!)
CROUT - 2m04 (Bit slow)
Nurburg - 9m18 (Miles out!)


Also got a great car coming up to test in the next 5 cars... 11,200 credits gets you one of the biggest numbers in GT5 and the biggest in this test so far... shame it is weight. 1890 swedish Kilograms. Mamma Mia!


Looked at the Google spreadsheet thing... May add to it later, but So far all my cars are base model - used, without any driver aids, the brakes softened up and in some case Harder tyres fitted.

Which again makes me want to do a few more tests just to see how much a set of Comfort Hards would cost a lap and how much a set of SS (Sissy Soft) will cut from a lap time.

Also looking at my times so far a Single lap of the ring is a bad place to base any assumptions on a car with a degree of accuracy... You need multiple laps to get the best out of a car. The 5 laps at TMC seems to be right as the CROUT 3 lapper always seems to be a bit short, and CROUT is a Power circuit that has little driver input for much of the lap. (Which may be a good thing really)
 
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Here is my first entry:

Tsukuba

Honda CITY Turbo II '83 - 106.9 Credits per km/h
UCD (Used car dealership)
Performance points: 374
Mileage: 33813
Cost of the car: 10287
Cost of upgrades: 0
Lap time: 1:16.483
Average speed: 96.3 km/h
Cost per km/h: 106.9 Cr


SSRX

Honda CITY Turbo II '83 - 59.0 Credits per km/h
UCD (Used car dealership)
Performance points: 390
Mileage: 33813
Cost of the car: 10287
Cost of upgrades: 1000 (Oil change 250 Cr, sports air filter 250 Cr, catalytic converter 500 Cr)
Lap time: 9:29.693
Average speed: 191.4 km/h
Cost per km/h: 59.0 Cr
 
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Couple of tests. The numbers are thickening up

The VR Limited MX5 felt nice. But then I moved to a Silvia Spec R Aero S15. This was another "Sports car" that had SH tyres fited so I had to downgrade. At Trial Mountain it felt pretty good, No understeer, A Very tall gearbox, 2nd would take you up to 60, 3rd was good to 80 and 5th would deal with speeds under 110mph. The car was a bit clumsy at low speed stuff, felt a bit long wheelbase after the MX5, but once it got going ad the tyres warmed up it was fast and predictable. ENgine only goes up to a 7200 red line

Silvia Spec R AERO S15
TMC - 1m46.9 (9m00)
CROUT - 1m56.1 (5m55.2)
NURBURG - 8m37.9

Next up was the Blista Compact

I mean the Ballade CR-X (The cute eighties Honda that looks like a Training shoe... Apparently.

Took the paint well, retains a red stripe down the side and a dark steel underpanel, Orange wheels just the ticket.

Car felt - well a step down after the Silvia, only 108bhp and 13.8 eurotorques. however it was light, 815kilos. 362pp. (582km/363miles)

6500 red line, close to the limiter, 5 gears. The car washes out under heavy steering, so I needed to employ a very soft gentle style to get the most out of the fronts.
Gears, 2nd - 50, 3rd - 80, 4th 110, and fifth for those times when you are running downhill.

Ballade CR-X '83
TMC - 1m54.9 (9m36
CROUT - 2m07.3 (6m24.3)
NURBURG - 9m23.2

Next is the Peugeot 206 S16
An Impreza WRX from 1994
The Volvo 240GLT

Look at the size of that thing!

TMC (Trial Mountain Circuit) is about 2.5miles - which I think is 4,000 meters
A 1m40 lap works out as... 40 seconds per mile or... 25 seconds per Kilometer.

I tend to have 1m40 as the bench mark time here, and soa Lap of 1m45 would be a 105% time... Of course I need to find a car that I can drive and get 1m40 then I can just say... Silvia Spec R Aero s15 is 106.9% of a base lap time here in a (Insert car name)
Of course next would be to plug in a power boost, or a set up change to see how much it imrpoves over this.

New cars... Celica GTR (the FF one from 91), and a Silvia Spec S Aero S15 from 99... 32 cars left to test... 23cars tested.

Have to look out for that Honda Turbo, 374pp seems in the right area.
 
Peugeot 206 - Not as funny looking as I remembered when I bought it - 5 gears, 6000 red line, very chancey understeer on cold tyres.

Puegeot 206 S16
TMC - 1m52.5 (9m28.3)
CROUT - 2m03.7 (6m16.6)
NURBURG - 9m19.9

just a single PP les than the previous car (The Blista Compact) but much more performance, however it is still slow and much more expensive than the 29 year old Honda.

Had a few runs at TMC in my Esprit. It has 848 miles but no power aids or anything added except the Brake Bias (Which I downtuned fomr 4/3 to my standard 3/2)

353bhp/40torques 1380kg - 482pp - Bought the car in 4/5/2011 ... (4th of May? I run Year Month Day - always gets me when you see date written all over the show... the time it is 45-11 ... Oh you mean quarter to Noon... which joker thought it would be funny to scramble the time /date numbers up - biggest first - smallest last.)

TMC - CS - 1m41.7 - 8m38.0 - (88.5mph best lap average)
TMC - SH - 1m38.7 - 8m22.4 - (91.9mph best lap average)
TMC - SM - 1m37.2 - 8m13.6 - (92.6mph best lap average)

So if Sport hards are normal at 100% then CS have 97.05% of the performance. SM's get 101.54%.

Back to back to back tests werefun, but as the times got faster the driving was much easier, on CS tyres you have to really be gentle on the tyres, smooth and silky, very easy to lock up or load up a tyre so much it breaks loose over heats the tread. Sport Hards were easier... but you still had to work, SM's felt glued to the track - that extra confidence lets you barrel in places.

Back to the 20,000 tests. And TMC

Average speed lap times at TMC
:LAP: - Average speed
1m30 - 100mph

1m31 - 98.90
1m32 - 97.83
1m33 - 96.77
1m34 - 95.74
1m35 - 94.74
1m36 - 93.75
1m37 - 92.78
1m38 - 91.84
1m39 - 90.90
1m40 - 90.00
1m41 - 89.11
1m42 - 88.24
1m43 - 87.38
1m44 - 86.54
1m45 - 85.71
1m46 - 84.91
1m47 - 84.11
1m48 - 83.33
1m49 - 82.57
1m50 - 81.82
1m51 - 81.08
1m52 - 80.36
1m53 - 79.65
1m54 - 78.95
1m55 - 78.26
1m56 - 77.59
1m57 - 76.92
1m58 - 76.27
1m59 - 75.63
2m00 - 75.00mph

I think the Americans like to work on Average lap speeds.

The CS shod Esprit could do Trial Mountain at an average lick of 88.5mph.

The version 2 Impreza coud only manage 84.9mph - Doesn't seem like much - just 3.6mph average but over a single lap of TMC's two and half miles that is 5.2 seconds lost every single lap.

Then again an Esprit dones't cost under 20,000 credits.

Only one car added, a 97 MR2 GTS - should be a good car. Then again it is a Toyota, and they always seem to be slower than you may expect. As the French would say - MR2 happens.
 
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