2001-2005 VW Passat W8 4motion

[JCE]

Has anybody driven one? Can someone (probably Brad) give me some mechanical/maintenance information about it and what to look out for in terms of buying a pre-owned one? Someone I know is in the market for one and I have to find a way to justify him getting the W8 over the regular V6 model other than its rare and 8cyl. I've already explained to him about how the W8 engine itself works but I do not know about the maintenance costs and reliability. We all know it is cool and rare, but I need the tangibles.

Anyone?

P.S. Plus, since I'm still in the market for a new(er) car I'm also interested in these things since it is on my short list of vehicles to test drive. Too bad most of the ones I'm finding are over 80k miles and 200+ miles away--and none of them are the estate.

*edit*
They came in a 6spd manual transmission?

 

[Philly]

I personally love them. Awesome car at pretty much everything. But apparently they break a lot and are hella expensive to maintain. Which I guess is only natural, since it's a VW. Plus, finding a manual wagon would be impossible. Only 96 of them in the country. It's one of those cars I'd buy in a heartbeat, but only if I had the money to keep the thing running.

 

[Tornado]

You are going to ask Brad to tell you about whether you should buy a Passat W8? You might as well be asking me if you should buy a Buick Reatta.

 

[ND4SPD]

Oh god, I love those cars and the sound they make is just great!

Yes they come in a 6 speed. Quite the epic car.




God I love the way these sound!

 

[High-Test]

I hear they make Mercedes-Benz products seem cheap to maintain, which is terrifying.

If you want four wheel drive and whatnot, why not get a higher-end subaru legacy? Some did come with flat sixes.

 

[YSSMAN]

I'm not aware of any major mechanical faults on the car, as most of the cars used carryover bits and pieces that were tried and true across the board not just on the B5/B5.5 Passat, but also the B5 Audi A4 as well. The W8 is supposed to be a pretty solid engine, and obviously, the Tiptronic automatic is pretty rock-solid as well. I have heard that on the six-speed units, clutches can go pretty quick, but I don't know if that's something across the board.

What you will find on the car are the typical issues that almost all Volkswagens (and Audis) of that era suffer from. Bad window motors, broken switches and gauges, odd electronic ghosts, etc. Given that the car was assembled in Europe with a higher production standard than the Jettas, Golfs and New Beetles we had, typically, they're going to be screwed together in a more secure way than others. Better yet, only hardcore VW fans have bought and maintained the cars, so you can imagine that most have been meticulously cared for, and are likely in good form as it is. The earlier models, I'd assume, would have most of their wiggles shaken out in terms of mileage and wear-and-tear, later ones on the verge of hitting the problem zone.

As Phil pointed out, they're going to be costly to fix when you have to. But, that's typical of any German vehicle. Based on the cost to fix basic things in my comparatively old-school Jetta, it won't be pretty. BUT, as I tell everyone who looks at a Volkswagen, if you can afford it, you're going to love it. The W8, along with the MKIV R32 Golf, remain two of my favorite Volkswagens of all time, and both sit among some of the most underrated vehicles of this decade. I would jump on a W8 Passat long before any Audi offered up, taking it even over the S4 that began to be a serious M3 competitor at the time.


I'd have him look into repair costs, insurance prices, and look around to see what others are going for. When I was looking at W8 last year, they were going for $12-14K in pretty good shape. The lowest I've seen is just over $10K, which seemed awefully low at the time. But they're rare, and VW fans will pay big bucks for them.


EDIT:

Forgot to answer one of the original questions...

Is the W8 a better buy and the VR6? Yes and no. In terms of exclusivity and overall "feel," the W8 model is vastly superior in my opinion. But, its not a gigantic difference. A late-model VR6 4MOTION GLX Passat is going to come with just as much kit as a pretty well-done A4 of the time, and it will scoot along nicely as well. The difference between the two mostly come down to interior packaging, the different tunes of suspension and ride height, and obviously horsepower. Dollar for dollar, you end up coming out even in some cases, so then it becomes more about whats available than actual pricing. I love both cars, but I've only driven VR6 and 1.8T models. Even then, I still think a 1.8T model is worth a look, especially when itty-bitty modifications make them driving perfection as it is.

 

[homeforsummer]

Passat W8s? I love them. How could you not love a 4-litre, 8-cylinder Passat? I really, really don't like the Passat in general but with a W8 that completely changes.

Did you guys get the Wagon version out there or was only Europe lucky enough to be granted that pleasure? Passat W8s are going for as little as £5k out here. It appears to be yet another example of the UK used car market being much better than the US used car market even though we pay through the nose for new cars compared to you guys.

The one possible downside: Fuel consumption. I know your EPA is measured more realistically than our fuel figures, but here are a few comparisons in imperial MPG, all with manual transmission, and performance figures (0-60, top speed):

Passat 1.8T: 34mpg / 8.9 / 137
Passat 2.3 V5: 30mpg / 8.6 / 142
Passat 2.8 VR6: 26mpg / 7.6 / 148
Passat W8: 21mpg / 6.3 / 155
Passat V6 TDI: 40mpg / 9.3 / 137

And those are "average" figures. I don't see it being significantly better on the highway and it wouldn't surprise me if it dipped to the low teens in town unless you drove everywhere at tickover... anyway, I threw in the V6 TDI we get for a laugh

 

[YSSMAN]

We had the wagon, but I believe it was only available with the slushbox. Not a terrible thing, but you know, the usual arguments go for and against. Although, I do not remember if they offered the sport package on the wagon or not here.

 

[///M-Spec]

I would jump on a W8 Passat long before any Audi offered up, taking it even over the S4 that began to be a serious M3 competitor at the time.

Why? The S4 has far superior performance and is just as solid, well appointed and practical. Aside from it being somewhat more expensive and slightly more thirsty, it's a better car in every way I can think of.


M

 

[homeforsummer]

"Cool" points. Audi S4s virtually grow on trees. When was the last time you saw a Passat W8? Wanting a car is based on so much more than a purely rational decision.

 

[///M-Spec]

"Cool" points. Audi S4s virtually grow on trees. When was the last time you saw a Passat W8? Wanting a car is based on so much more than a purely rational decision.

You say that as if the W8 were the emotional choice when compared to the S4, when in fact the opposite is true. B5 Passats aren't especially passionate cars --they're basically German Camrys. Solid, sensible, a good value and subsequently, a little dull. Dropping an oddball motor into one doesn't suddenly make it an Italian supercar.

A car's rarity or "cool factor" is only a minor factor for me. The rarity must be combined with other genuinely compelling attributes. There are plenty of rare cars that are also utterly unforgettable.

My issue with the Passat W8 has always been the lack of true identity. It's not as sensible as a front drive 1.8T Passat because it's far heavier, thirstier and costly. But it's not as sporty as a six-pot A4 quattro despite it having plenty more power because it has the same suspension and steering as the other Passats (subsequently, it's a soft, squishy understeer queen). And it's not even close to a 3 or 5-series BMW for driver appeal. So it's in this weird neither-nor place where it doesn't quite know what it wants to be. If they are indeed rare (I wouldn't know the sales figures) it is probably because it wasn't a particularly well thought out car-- and the sales figures show it.


M

 

[homeforsummer]

The engine (and indeed the rarity) are the car's USPs. It might not be a proper sports saloon but it's sufficiently different enough from everything else out there that it becomes a purchase of the heart rather than the head. It's an interesting car, which the average S4 of the same age isn't, really. At least not to me.

If you're choosing a car out of pure rationality then the W8 wouldn't even be on your radar. If JCE's friend has even considered it, it's a fair bet that they're willing to go for the W8 regardless of whether it's not as logical a choice as the S4 is.

 

[JCE]

I'm not aware of any major mechanical faults on the car, as most of the cars used carryover bits and pieces that were tried and true across the board not just on the B5/B5.5 Passat, but also the B5 Audi A4 as well. The W8 is supposed to be a pretty solid engine, and obviously, the Tiptronic automatic is pretty rock-solid as well. I have heard that on the six-speed units, clutches can go pretty quick, but I don't know if that's something across the board.

What you will find on the car are the typical issues that almost all Volkswagens (and Audis) of that era suffer from. Bad window motors, broken switches and gauges, odd electronic ghosts, etc. Given that the car was assembled in Europe with a higher production standard than the Jettas, Golfs and New Beetles we had, typically, they're going to be screwed together in a more secure way than others. Better yet, only hardcore VW fans have bought and maintained the cars, so you can imagine that most have been meticulously cared for, and are likely in good form as it is. The earlier models, I'd assume, would have most of their wiggles shaken out in terms of mileage and wear-and-tear, later ones on the verge of hitting the problem zone.

As Phil pointed out, they're going to be costly to fix when you have to. But, that's typical of any German vehicle. Based on the cost to fix basic things in my comparatively old-school Jetta, it won't be pretty. BUT, as I tell everyone who looks at a Volkswagen, if you can afford it, you're going to love it. The W8, along with the MKIV R32 Golf, remain two of my favorite Volkswagens of all time, and both sit among some of the most underrated vehicles of this decade. I would jump on a W8 Passat long before any Audi offered up, taking it even over the S4 that began to be a serious M3 competitor at the time.


I'd have him look into repair costs, insurance prices, and look around to see what others are going for. When I was looking at W8 last year, they were going for $12-14K in pretty good shape. The lowest I've seen is just over $10K, which seemed awefully low at the time. But they're rare, and VW fans will pay big bucks for them.


EDIT:

Forgot to answer one of the original questions...

Is the W8 a better buy and the VR6? Yes and no. In terms of exclusivity and overall "feel," the W8 model is vastly superior in my opinion. But, its not a gigantic difference. A late-model VR6 4MOTION GLX Passat is going to come with just as much kit as a pretty well-done A4 of the time, and it will scoot along nicely as well. The difference between the two mostly come down to interior packaging, the different tunes of suspension and ride height, and obviously horsepower. Dollar for dollar, you end up coming out even in some cases, so then it becomes more about whats available than actual pricing. I love both cars, but I've only driven VR6 and 1.8T models. Even then, I still think a 1.8T model is worth a look, especially when itty-bitty modifications make them driving perfection as it is.

Thanks for the bits of info, but I have a few more questions. So am I to assume that the autobox is reliable for the power the W8 puts out? That being 271bhp and 270tq. Before I can recommend him getting this car I'd need to make sure that the drivetrain is reliable. Also, is this the same automatic transmission that they put in the 4.2L V8 S4/A8? How does the car behave north of 70k miles? Also what does a maintenance (aka tuneup etc) cost versus a normal car like say a Nissan Maxima or Honda Accord?

Did you guys get the Wagon version out there or was only Europe lucky enough to be granted that pleasure? Passat W8s are going for as little as £5k out here. It appears to be yet another example of the UK used car market being much better than the US used car market even though we pay through the nose for new cars compared to you guys.

The one possible downside: Fuel consumption. I know your EPA is measured more realistically than our fuel figures, but here are a few comparisons in imperial MPG, all with manual transmission, and performance figures (0-60, top speed):

Passat 1.8T: 34mpg / 8.9 / 137
Passat 2.3 V5: 30mpg / 8.6 / 142
Passat 2.8 VR6: 26mpg / 7.6 / 148
Passat W8: 21mpg / 6.3 / 155
Passat V6 TDI: 40mpg / 9.3 / 137

And those are "average" figures. I don't see it being significantly better on the highway and it wouldn't surprise me if it dipped to the low teens in town unless you drove everywhere at tickover... anyway, I threw in the V6 TDI we get for a laugh

I read somewhere that there are less than 100 estate W8's in the US and only literally a handful of 6spds. The fuel consuption is not an issue with him (or me for that matter). The drivetrain reliability is.

We had the wagon, but I believe it was only available with the slushbox. Not a terrible thing, but you know, the usual arguments go for and against. Although, I do not remember if they offered the sport package on the wagon or not here.

I've seen 1 6spd estate on US soil via a picture and it had a CA license plate.

Oh god, I love those cars and the sound they make is just great!

Yes they come in a 6 speed. Quite the epic car.




God I love the way these sound!

Youtube up one with the Silverline exhaust--it sounds like a damn Ferrari almost!

You are going to ask Brad to tell you about whether you should buy a Passat W8? You might as well be asking me if you should buy a Buick Reatta.

True, but mainly I'm getting technical and mechanical info from him.

Why? The S4 has far superior performance and is just as solid, well appointed and practical. Aside from it being somewhat more expensive and slightly more thirsty, it's a better car in every way I can think of.


M

There is 1 problem with the S4, the insurance is slightly higher. And only because of the badge. I love S4's, but the W8 to me ticks 1 box the Audi doesn't...that being the rarity box.

"Cool" points. Audi S4s virtually grow on trees. When was the last time you saw a Passat W8? Wanting a car is based on so much more than a purely rational decision.

+1

You say that as if the W8 were the emotional choice when compared to the S4, when in fact the opposite is true. B5 Passats aren't especially passionate cars --they're basically German Camrys. Solid, sensible, a good value and subsequently, a little dull. Dropping an oddball motor into one doesn't suddenly make it an Italian supercar.

M

This may be true, but, like with any car a good suspension, tires and some bolt-ons it can become something special if done correctly. I love the fact that it HAS that oddball engine. Sure, an S6 with the V8 may also be an option but something about being exclusive has a certain appeal. And my friend would be the type to be persuaded by that.

If JCE's friend has even considered it, it's a fair bet that they're willing to go for the W8 regardless of whether it's not as logical a choice as the S4 is.

This is pretty much spot on. As soon as I explained about the engine he was seemingly drawn to it over an Audi. He asked me what sedans were good to drive, comfy and had personality. The short list included the W8 and he asked me about what the "W" meant. Otherwise if he isn't satisfied at the reliability of this car his next choice from my list is a 2005 Nissan Maxima SE with the 6spd manual. 3rd car of his chosing is a clean previous generation BMW 5-series with a 6spd manual.

As for me the W8 would be awsome to own but in all seriousness finding one with the right mileage and that isn't too far away AND being sold by a dealer that can finance where a private party individual cannot is probably going to be slim to none.

Still, if he finds one it might be a strong contender.

 

[YSSMAN]

Why? The S4 has far superior performance and is just as solid, well appointed and practical. Aside from it being somewhat more expensive and slightly more thirsty, it's a better car in every way I can think of.

I've never been a big Audi fan myself, so it doesn't take much to woo me away. At the time, the B5 S4 was never much to shake a stick at until they shoved the 4.2L V8 under the hood. It made it a radically different car, and a much better alternative to the M3. But, in this case, I'd still prefer the VW. I personally think the Passat looked better, both inside and out, and despite the very distinct performance differences... I'd still choose the VW. Otherwise, brand loyalty is hard to get rid of. Especially with VW.

Thanks for the bits of info, but I have a few more questions. So am I to assume that the autobox is reliable for the power the W8 puts out? That being 271bhp and 270tq. Before I can recommend him getting this car I'd need to make sure that the drivetrain is reliable. Also, is this the same automatic transmission that they put in the 4.2L V8 S4/A8? How does the car behave north of 70k miles? Also what does a maintenance (aka tuneup etc) cost versus a normal car like say a Nissan Maxima or Honda Accord?

Personally, I wouldn't be too worried about the Tiptronic gearboxes. They were built by ZF, and went in damn near everything. As I recall, it was the same gearbox used in the S4 at the time, both the V8 and Turbo V6 models. So, the power levels shouldn't kill it too easily. As for service intervals, I'm not sure what they would be specifically with the W8 engine, which I'm certain is very different than the four-pot VWs I'm used to. It seems like with most automakers these days, they require most of the parts around 90-120K miles, but that really depends. Parts costs themselves are quite high, I'd add at least 25% to most bits and pieces compared to your average Japanese car. What gets killer is the labor costs, which will vary by dealer. My local VW shop charges $75, but when you're pretty much the only one in town, you can get away with it. Before I had to get rid of the Jetta, they wanted to charge me $350 to change the timing belt on the car (compared to $250 on the Celica), which seemed awfully high to me. Clutches are pretty expensive (seems like it was north of $300 on the Jetta), same with the lights, switches... Really, anything.

If you can afford it, its a wonderful car. If it was a well-kept vehicle, the problems should be minimal. If the owner was lax on things, I'd imagine it would be the typical ish-ish VW issues.

 

[///M-Spec]

The engine (and indeed the rarity) are the car's USPs. It might not be a proper sports saloon but it's sufficiently different enough from everything else out there that it becomes a purchase of the heart rather than the head. It's an interesting car, which the average S4 of the same age isn't, really. At least not to me.

If you're choosing a car out of pure rationality then the W8 wouldn't even be on your radar. If JCE's friend has even considered it, it's a fair bet that they're willing to go for the W8 regardless of whether it's not as logical a choice as the S4 is.

Nobody chooses an S4 (or an M3 or a C36 or any 300+hp compact executive car) out of pure rationality either. They buy one because they like it and it makes them feel good. If we were all being sensible and logical, we would buy 8 year old Civics and then drive them till the wheels fell off.

You characterize the W8 as an emotional purchase. I certainly understand emotional purchases; after all my last car was an M Roadster, something that made no sense at all but it sure felt good.

Usually when someone says a car is an emotional purchase, what they mean is that it isn't very practical or sensible or even advisable, but there are certain characteristics of the car that are so compelling that it makes all the heartache and hassles of ownership worth it.

I'm struggling to see what makes the W8 as so special. Or compelling.

-You don't get a proper sports sedan.

-You'd might think "well okay, it'll be a stoplight terror and highway beast". But you can't even out accelerate V6 Accords and Camrys. And a Maxima will leave you for dead. And a 94 mph trap speed means after after going flat out for a 1/4 mile, a GTI driver will still be waving from his window which will be right next to yours because you can't outrun one. Same goes for a Civic Si. A Cobolt SS or Mazdaspeed3 would suck your headlights out. Yes; 8 cylinders and you can't outrun a hot hatch.

-"Well, it'll be solid, comfortable, well spec'd, etc". Sure. But so is a Passat 1.8T. Or an Audi A4.

Which really only leaves the "uniqueness" of the configuration. I guess being different appeals to some people. I guess it makes them feel good.

But why? Why be different, just for the sake of being different?

There is 1 problem with the S4, the insurance is slightly higher. And only because of the badge. I love S4's, but the W8 to me ticks 1 box the Audi doesn't...that being the rarity box.

My arguments in this thread are simply for rhetorical purposes only. I'm not trying to convince your friend to get an S4.

This may be true, but, like with any car a good suspension, tires and some bolt-ons it can become something special if done correctly.

Putting new springs, shocks, sway bars, wheels and tires onto the W8 will quickly negate any cost advantage it has over a similar Audi. And you won't see a return on your investment when it comes time to resell.

3rd car of his chosing is a clean previous generation BMW 5-series with a 6spd manual.
.

2003 540i Sport 6 Speed Manual >>>> W8 Passat by a country mile. It was the final year of the E39, so they added M5 exterior trim and gave it special wheels. There are many nice clean ones out there too, most with reasonable miles. It's right around the price of the W8 as well.

I've never been a big Audi fan myself, so it doesn't take much to woo me away. At the time, the B5 S4 was never much to shake a stick at until they shoved the 4.2L V8 under the hood. It made it a radically different car, and a much better alternative to the M3. But, in this case, I'd still prefer the VW. I personally think the Passat looked better, both inside and out, and despite the very distinct performance differences... I'd still choose the VW. Otherwise, brand loyalty is hard to get rid of. Especially with VW.

The 2000-2002 S4 2.7T (B5) was considered by many to be an equal to the E36 M3. In fact, it was the only car ever to beat the E36 M3 in a head on comparo in Car and Driver. When the B6 came out it repeated the win over the E46 version.


M

 

[homeforsummer]

I'm struggling to see what makes the W8 as so special. Or compelling.

-You don't get a proper sports sedan.

-You'd might think "well okay, it'll be a stoplight terror and highway beast". But you can't even out accelerate V6 Accords and Camrys. And a Maxima will leave you for dead. And a 94 mph trap speed means after after going flat out for a 1/4 mile, a GTI driver will still be waving from his window which will be right next to yours because you can't outrun one. Same goes for a Civic Si. A Cobolt SS or Mazdaspeed3 would suck your headlights out. Yes; 8 cylinders and you can't outrun a hot hatch.

0-60 of 6-odd seconds seems fairly quick to me, and certainly a damn sight quicker than your average Accord or Camry. And will those cars run into (/break through) a limiter at 155mph either? I suspect not.

And it's worth bearing in mind that some people don't want a sports sedan. "Adequate" handling is more than enough for some many people and the W8 provides that. It also provides more than enough comfort for most people, and more than enough performance for many people too.

I didn't see the bit where JCE said his friend would be racing people either, so arbitrary comparisons aside it's fairly irrelevant.

-"Well, it'll be solid, comfortable, well spec'd, etc". Sure. But so is a Passat 1.8T. Or an Audi A4.

Both of which are pretty boring in comparison. And I suspect that your average 1.8T Passat doesn't really have the equipment the W8 does. Base model German cars always have been, and still are, fairly under-equipped compared to many cars. It was only a few years ago that BMW stopped giving you a cassette player as standard in their base models... (and Audi wasn't too different for a long time). The point is, the W8 is the top-line Passat and as such it'll be fairly well kitted out as far as convenience gadgets go.

Which really only leaves the "uniqueness" of the configuration. I guess being different appeals to some people. I guess it makes them feel good.

This basically answers your own question. The W8 engine is more than compelling enough for some people. Me included. Would I choose it over the V8 S4/RS4? Of course not. But then you can have a Passat W8 for peanuts now, at least in the UK (seriously, £5k ish will get you into a W8). I haven't looked but I suspect a V8 S4 is impossible for that money, and even the turbo'd V6s will probably be more than that.

But why? Why be different, just for the sake of being different?

Being different is what makes the world go around. I personally completely understand the appeal of getting a car that's different to everything around it. I'd be surprised if many of the car enthusiasts on this site didn't see any appeal in driving something fairly unique, and I expect many would make compromises in some areas in order to do so.

 

[YSSMAN]

Which really only leaves the "uniqueness" of the configuration. I guess being different appeals to some people. I guess it makes them feel good.

But why? Why be different, just for the sake of being different?

We're talking about VW, right? We're all batsnot crazy, the VW fans. I don't know if there is a better way to explain it. "Rationality" generally doesn't factor in with our car purchases.

I totally understand that the W8 is a "worse" option than a lot of cars made available at the time, and even now, but its just so totally awesome. Totally.

 

[Philly]

I'll second Brad's point. I'd buy it because it's an awesome version of the run-of-the-mill Passat. Especially the wagons. I'd buy it because it's a cool VW. Same goes with the Phaeton.

And this is a view I would expect nobody outside of the VW fan club to share.

 

[JCE]

My friend has decided not to get the Passat (or Audi). He's sticking to his Nissan Maxima or a 5-series. Which is fine by me, he's not completely sold on Audi or VW so he doesn't want to take a chance no matter how good the Audi's are.

So I told him to get back with me when he's ready and I'd try and find a good one. Oh, he also asked me about the Infiniti FX35. I grinned and said "oh, cool". Didn't let him know that I secretly adore that car!

 

[Leonidae]

I vote for 5-series.. preferably E34 or E39 with a V8 under the hood, M-sport package and manual..

 

[homeforsummer]

My friend has decided not to get the Passat (or Audi). He's sticking to his Nissan Maxima or a 5-series. Which is fine by me, he's not completely sold on Audi or VW so he doesn't want to take a chance no matter how good the Audi's are.

Heh. Ah well. Out of those two I'd have to go for the 5-Series. I'm not wild on them but it's less of a complete anesthetic than a Maxima. And less ugly. Unless he's got enough money for the brand spanking new Maxima that actually look quite good.

 

[JCE]

1. The Maxima will outrun that 5-series.
2. He likes the interior and exterior of the Maxima (as do I).
3. The new Maxima--that is 2007+ does not have a 6speed transmission.

Looks exceptionally good in black.

 

[homeforsummer]

Personal preference really. I think they look really bland. When I've been to Dubai, they make up 25% of the taxis when Camrys make up the other 75%, so I think of them as being a dull taxi.

 

[Christhedude]

Personal preference really. I think they look really bland. When I've been to Dubai, they make up 25% of the taxis when Camrys make up the other 75%, so I think of them as being a dull taxi.

erm, when were you in Dubai? Cause since the past 7 years i dont recall even one taxi being a Maxima ...

And the Maxima's over here aren't even Nissan's, 95% are the Infinity version.

I think youre mixing up the Maxima's with Altima's

Chris

 

[homeforsummer]

I think youre mixing up the Maxima's with Altima's

Ah, that could be it, my mistake. Regardless, they don't look dissimilar. The Maxima may not be a taxi then but it looks like one...

 

[Jim Prower]

Ye have a point. There's not much to differentiate the two sedans...even size.

 

[Leonidae]

E39 is still a safe choice. while it might not match the power figures of altima or maxima, Torque is probably different matter. and whereas Altima and Maxima are softer family sedans, BMW has always had a bit of sporting flavor. They're not called "drivers cars" for nothing.

 

[YSSMAN]

Mmmm, I wouldn't exactly call the Altima "soft." We had one of the newer 2.5S sedans for a while not too long ago, and I found it to be a shade uncomfortable on lengthy drives. The suspension was a fair bit harsh, and the NVH levels were higher than I was accustom to. Sure, the car was a lot of fun to drive, but to ride in, it was terrible.

As a "sport sedan," I've always found the Altima to be a compelling alternative to a lot of mainstream sport sedans costing thousands more. Of course, you get what you pay for, and it comes with plenty of rough edges. To many fans of the car (my Father included), that's the main selling point.

 

[///M-Spec]

0-60 of 6-odd seconds seems fairly quick to me, and certainly a damn sight quicker than your average Accord or Camry. And will those cars run into (/break through) a limiter at 155mph either? I suspect not.

I guess you're not familiar with the hot rod Accords and Camrys we get here in the States.

Honda Accord V6 6MT Coupe
0-60: 5.9 seconds
1/4 mile: 14.5 @ 99 mph.

SOURCE 1, 2

I can't seem to find specs for a V6 sedan, but given both variants weigh about the same, I would expect performance to be similar.

Toyota Camry V6
0-60: 5.8 sec
1/4 mile: 14.3 sec @ 99 mph

SOURCE


Here is a test panel for the Passat W8 from R&T. And a short review of the 6MT version in C/D, who tested theirs at 6.7 and 14.9 @ 93mph.

So the numbers do support my statement. In fact, my original characterization of the W8 "not being able to outrun" V6 Accords and Camrys was in fact, generous. It would get dusted by them.

And according to the R&T data panel, our W8s were limited to 130 mph. This limit is probably as a result of the H Rated OE all season tires. The Accord and Camry is probably limited to the same speed, for the same reason.

And since I was spec hunting, I also can't help but post a link to this C/D comparison where the W8 came in DFL. So I'm know I'm not alone in being pretty lukewarm about it.

And it's worth bearing in mind that some people don't want a sports sedan. "Adequate" handling is more than enough for some many people and the W8 provides that. It also provides more than enough comfort for most people, and more than enough performance for many people too.

I don't argue that everyone who looks at a premium (executive) sedan wants an especially sporty one. We have brands like Lexus and Buick who cover the luxury side of premium quite well.

But I think when VW puts a 8 cylinder motor and a 6-speed manual gearbox into a car, there can be no mistaking their intentions: they want to compete with 540s and E500s, not ES300s and LeSabres.

I didn't see the bit where JCE said his friend would be racing people either, so arbitrary comparisons aside it's fairly irrelevant.

Now, hold on a minute! You just spent two paragraphs arguing those irrelevant comparisons; so which is it?

When posing the question of whether or not a $40,000, 270hp, 8 cylinder, top of the line Passat is exceptional compared to it's competitors, of course performance is relevant. What do you want to compare instead, MPG?

Both of which are pretty boring in comparison. And I suspect that your average 1.8T Passat doesn't really have the equipment the W8 does. Base model German cars always have been, and still are, fairly under-equipped compared to many cars. It was only a few years ago that BMW stopped giving you a cassette player as standard in their base models... (and Audi wasn't too different for a long time). The point is, the W8 is the top-line Passat and as such it'll be fairly well kitted out as far as convenience gadgets go.

Things are a little different here in the States. German brands are positioned as premium here, even Volkswagen. So they have better standard equipment levels, especially on a mid-range car like the Passat. And even if many of the luxury features are optional, it is rare to see a car without them.

To use BMW as an example, we have no 4 cylinders models and haven't for over 10 years. In-dash CDs have been standard since 1999 (if my memory serves me right). Leather upholstery is optional for all BMW 3ers (and some 5ers too) but in my estimation, only 1 in about 500 cars are purchased without it. Cloth is not even available, except in one or two very rare instances.

It wouldn't be hard to find a loaded 1.8T. And the ones that aren't will still have fair good equipment levels.

This basically answers your own question. The W8 engine is more than compelling enough for some people. Me included. Would I choose it over the V8 S4/RS4? Of course not. But then you can have a Passat W8 for peanuts now, at least in the UK (seriously, £5k ish will get you into a W8). I haven't looked but I suspect a V8 S4 is impossible for that money, and even the turbo'd V6s will probably be more than that.

I know some people do find this car compelling. Really, I do. I just don't understand why.

BUT. I will accept your point here that a W8 is raging cheap and a comparative bargain. I can meet you there on that bit.

Being different is what makes the world go around. I personally completely understand the appeal of getting a car that's different to everything around it. I'd be surprised if many of the car enthusiasts on this site didn't see any appeal in driving something fairly unique, and I expect many would make compromises in some areas in order to do so.

I think being a car enthusiast is not correlated to wanting something unique. Thousands of ricers (chavs to you) out there put the same crappy junk on their cars in a bid to express their 'individuality' but ironically they all end up looking the same.

Let me make it clear that I wouldn't fault someone for wanting something special. So long as what makes the car special is actually worthwhile. So long as the special-ness has intrinsic value outside of it being unique.

Being different just to say you're different is... Well, if I were being critical and judgmental, I might say narcissistic or self-obsessed. But I would prefer not to be so hard on people. So let's just say it doesn't make any sense to me. Or maybe I'll just use an internet meme.

We're talking about VW, right? We're all batsnot crazy, the VW fans. I don't know if there is a better way to explain it. "Rationality" generally doesn't factor in with our car purchases.

I totally understand that the W8 is a "worse" option than a lot of cars made available at the time, and even now, but its just so totally awesome. Totally.

I'll second Brad's point. I'd buy it because it's an awesome version of the run-of-the-mill Passat. Especially the wagons. I'd buy it because it's a cool VW. Same goes with the Phaeton.

And this is a view I would expect nobody outside of the VW fan club to share.

Okay guys; I can buy the brand loyalty bit.

BTW, we used to have a VW too. It was nice. But not totally awesome

1. The Maxima will outrun that 5-series.

Not stock it won't. 96 mph car vs. 102 mph car, AFAIK.


M

 

[Tornado]

@ ///M-Spec: Not that it really matters, but the Accord sedan probably would be considerably slower, because you can (or could. Maybe it is different now) only get a 5-speed slushbox with the V6. Motor Trend only got 6.5 out of their long term one.