Originally posted by The359
Now see, that is exactly the attitude M5 takes on. If YOU don't think that a car is worth anything, then everyone else who goes out and buys that car is an idiot and doesn't know what they are doing when it comes to car buying, is that what you're trying to say? YOUR ideal car is not the same as EVERYONE ELSE'S ideal car.
It's an arguable point sometimes, but
NOT this time. This time I can prove my statement beyond any reasonable argument. I realise you've never given me a fair shake on this board, so I couldn't care less how you feel on this issue. You don't understand that when I say "x car is bad", I've compared it to
every member of its class and come up with that result. I've driven almost every single vehicle on the market and I don't comment on those I haven't. It's simple, actually.
Takumi doesn't agree with me on this issue. I don't care if he gets personal, because he feels that I've gotten personal by insulting his car. I have nothing but respect for Prius owners. It's a horrible value -
the worst. But it's not a horrible buy. The reason magazines eat the Prius up is because they're not paying the bill. For those that are paying the bill, it's a brave choice. Of course, Civic Hybrid owners make the same choice and not in the same 'look at me, I'm saving the planet' way, but at least they've all got the same goal.
Them and Nader.
In your opinion. Just like my opinion could be that your the single worst person on this bored in its history ever.
Kids on board... kids
not bored.
The following comparison will not change The359's mind, nor will it change Takumi's. The359's purpose at GTP is to argue with me, and Takumi thinks the Prius is a godsend. I don't care. Hopefully, it will help some people will understand where I'm coming from when I call the Prius the worst value. It's
not my opinion, it's simple statistics. So here goes:
The 2004 Toyota Corolla LE equipped with optional side airbags, anti-lock brakes, and cruise control starts at
$16065. The 2004 Toyota Prius without options starts at
$20510. On features, the vehicles share air-conditioning, power steering, a tilt steering wheel, cloth upholstery, power mirrors, an AM/FM/CD player, a digital clock, an outside-temperature indicator, variable-intermittent wipers, a rear defogger, power windows, power locks, remote keyless entry, anti-lock brakes, cruise control, and an emergency trunk release. The Prius's unique features are traction aid, a steering wheel with radio controls, heated mirrors, a rear spoiler, and alloy wheels. The Corolla's unique features are daytime running lights, an interior air filter, a tachometer, a remote fuel door release, a remote trunk release, a height-adjustable driver seat, map lights, and front side airbags. The Corolla, then, has
more features for
less money, though you're not going to see me claim that a tachometer, a rear spoiler, or daytime running lights matter. But still, it's more for less and in a side-by-side comparison I'm not about to pass that up.
Power next. The Prius has 76bhp from a 1.5L four-cylinder; the Corolla has 130bhp from a 1.8L four-cylinder. Prius fans yell and scream at this statistic since the Prius's
electric motor has 67bhp, for a grand total of 143bhp, thirteen more than the Corolla. Cool, I don't care. The Corolla does 0-60 in 9.4 seconds; the Prius does it in 10.5. I'll thirteen your horsepower, the Corolla - regardless of transmission - is faster by about a second. Maybe it has something to do with the Prius's being 388lbs heavier.
Size. The Prius and Corolla have strangely the exact same front and rear head room dimensions, but the Prius is larger in leg room, by 0.6" in the front and 3.2" in the rear. The Prius's cargo area is also 2.5cu ft larger than the Corolla's. If they weren't made by the same company, all this may be a bit embarassing for the Corolla since it's about three inches longer overall. But then again, the Prius is two years newer and has a very different body design.
Cost! Cost is big, right? Prius fans go on and on about how they're saving the Earth
and money. No, they aren't.
Gas in New York County - that's where I live, for those of you keeping score - is $1.63 per gallon. Assuming you drive 11,000 miles per year, the Prius, at 57.5mpg, uses 191.3043 gallons per year, while the Corolla, at 36.0mpg, uses 305.5556 gallons per year. That means the cost of gasoline per year for the Prius is an astonishingly low $311.83. I'll concede that to the Prius - it's really damn cheap to run. The Corolla's per-year gasoline cost is a decent $498.06. With an initial cost difference of $4445,
it will take the Prius until November 2027 - or, 23 years and 8 months - to become a better dollar value than the Corolla. In fact, that won't happen until you've spent a full $27800 on the vehicle and gasoline. Let's think on that for a second. 23 years, 8 months
ago was July 1980; during Jimmy Carter's term (since then, we've had two Reagans, two Bushes, two Clintons, and about six Corollas). It's pre-Takumi, even. And ask yourself: how many 1981 Chevrolet Chevettes do you see driving around these days?
For cost, I'm leaving out depreciation, where the Corolla fares about two percent better than the Prius, though it's an unfair statistic because a) the old Prius was even worse than the new Prius and b) Toyota redesigned the Prius prematurely, tanking resale. I'm also leaving out reliability-based running costs since I think any sensible person would consider the Corolla and Prius about on-par.
But there's another cost issue that can't be overlooked. Toyota has a hybrid battery pack in the Prius that will need replacement within ten to fifteen years of ownership (of course, it's only warrantied for 8yr/100,000mi). The estimated cost of that battery pack is $3000-$5300. With that cost figure, the Prius will not be a better value than the Corolla in our lifetimes. That said, technological advancements are going to bring that price down into the sub-$400 range by the time replacement is necessary, but it's still a major cost issue in a car whose one hold over competition is yearly running costs.
So by all means, buy a Prius. Call me up in 2027 - at least - and we'll talk about how you got 0.6 more inches of front leg room. And I'll slap you in the face (Oh no! A threat of violence!).
PS - if you've read all of this, get a damn life.
I haven't even read all of it.
Edit: I'm not bringing up personal crap because it's unrelated (except The359 whose positions in life are defined by taking the opposite of my positions...)
You're assuming a person will only need a car to drive X amount of miles, you're assuming gas prices are X amount, you're assuming person wants X amount of things or cares about X amount of power. These are called VARIABLES. That means they are no set number, hence you cannot tell everyone that you have the answer to every variable they have.
expensive, and the extra cost can be recouped.
Just Playing... im not going to get involve in this war. 
