2006 French Grand Prix

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Link. It was only a few threads down. Assuming you were too lazy to find it, I can probably assume that you won’t click it, so I’ll quote a somewhat relevant post.

Blake
They would be used to reduce the disturbance caused by the drivers head. They would split the air into two “sections.”
bmwwing9io.jpg
The green one would be heading towards the wings on the sidepods, and the red section would be heading for the drivers head. The advantage here is that more clean air is directed towards the wings on the sidepods (allowing them to create more downforce), rather than the disturbed air that normally comes from the drivers helmets.
 
GrandPrix.com
Tonio Liuzzi has been sent to the back of the grid of the French Grand Prix because the team needed to change an engine for the second consecutive race. Scuderia Toro Rosso somehow managed to insert a washer into one of the cylinders of Liuzzi's car on Saturday and it was felt that this was probably not a great plan for the race. Thus Liuzzi goes to the back of the grid again and will endeavour to drive from there into the points.
I like that they managed to get the washer into the cylinder without breaking the rules, but can’t get it out. :p Assuming that’s the problem, and that they didn’t actually run the engine with the washer in it…
 
Blake
Except that they actually do something. *sigh*
omg you have lost all faith in new members lol. i assumed he was just joking about how funny it looked. of course almost everything if not everything is functional on a race car.
 
Pretty bland race following the last two, heres my thoughts and verdicts:

First off, strong race by Schumacher, the Bridgestones worked well and the Ferrari appeared to be well hooked up. Massa also delivered a great team drive and it was a shame he couldn't take second.

Renault's new car couldn't come any sooner! Ferrari have deffinatley clawed up to atleast equal performance with the french outfit. Hockenheim should be a good race for Renault.. Note I said 'should'.

Honda are deffinatley in trouble, they have no pace, no grip and no reliability. All these backround changes wont do anyhelp but with the new aero facilities at Brackley, I'd expect a comeback by the end of the season.

Toyota on the other hand seem to have found good pace, I'd put them as the 4th fastest team right now. They are starting to find soem good consistancy now they just need to sort out the reliability. 👍

Scott Speed continues to impress me, where as he was prone to rookie mistakes every 5 laps at the start of the season, he has quickly appeared to have learnt the car and is now consistantly battling for the top 10.

Ratings:

Renault: 8/10, lacked the pace when against Ferrari but smart to stretch Alonso out onto a 2 stopper.

McLaren: 7/10, They seem to be catching up a little bit, Kimi was racey and de la Rosa put in a decent drive.

Ferrari: 10/10, their car was the best when it needed to be, it looked after the Bridgestones well and should have finished 1-2.

Toyota: 9/10, found good pace today and Ralf could have got 3rd if it wernt for Renault's strategy change.

Williams: 5/10, really starting to struggle now, Webber done well to hold off de la Rosa but tyre failure put an end to that. 5 races (I think) on the trot now without a point.

Honda: 3/10, done well in practice but then it all fell apart, racing always at the back, at this rate their 'B' team will be fighting with them.

Red Bull: 6/10, maybe a bit slower compared to NA, DC was compeating for the final point, Klien had a quiet race.

BMW Sauber: 7/10, Heidfeld done well to grab a point, shame the race and quali pace didn't match their practice pace.

Midland: 5/10, quiet race, Monterio having a spectacular retirement, Albers finishing low.

Toro Rosso: 8/10, raced with their big sister team, Red Bull, Speed done well but run in the sand costed him.

Super Aguri: 6/10, expected to finish dead last on a circuit that is fairly fast at times, Sato DNF'd, Montagny last of the finishers.
 
I wish Toyota could have been more reliable today, as both cars could have challenged Alonso. Ralf had that dodgy pit-stop which cost him 10 seconds, and Trulli was going nicely until he retired. Nice to see another competitive team, though.
 
Snooooooooore.....

I love it when the race is over in the first corner. I think today's race made it quite clear that tire wars are bad for the sport. Personally, I think that next year, Bridgestone should only be allowed bring ONE compound to each race. That would put the whole field on the same tires, and would keep them from making these ridiculous Ferrari-specials.
 
Bee
Pretty bland race following the last two, heres my thoughts and verdicts:

First off, strong race by Schumacher, the Bridgestones worked well and the Ferrari appeared to be well hooked up. Massa also delivered a great team drive and it was a shame he couldn't take second.

Renault's new car couldn't come any sooner! Ferrari have deffinatley clawed up to atleast equal performance with the french outfit. Hockenheim should be a good race for Renault.. Note I said 'should'.

Honda are deffinatley in trouble, they have no pace, no grip and no reliability. All these backround changes wont do anyhelp but with the new aero facilities at Brackley, I'd expect a comeback by the end of the season.

Toyota on the other hand seem to have found good pace, I'd put them as the 4th fastest team right now. They are starting to find soem good consistancy now they just need to sort out the reliability. 👍

Scott Speed continues to impress me, where as he was prone to rookie mistakes every 5 laps at the start of the season, he has quickly appeared to have learnt the car and is now consistantly battling for the top 10.

Ratings:

Renault: 8/10, lacked the pace when against Ferrari but smart to stretch Alonso out onto a 2 stopper.

McLaren: 7/10, They seem to be catching up a little bit, Kimi was racey and de la Rosa put in a decent drive.

Ferrari: 10/10, their car was the best when it needed to be, it looked after the Bridgestones well and should have finished 1-2.

Toyota: 9/10, found good pace today and Ralf could have got 3rd if it wernt for Renault's strategy change.

Williams: 5/10, really starting to struggle now, Webber done well to hold off de la Rosa but tyre failure put an end to that. 5 races (I think) on the trot now without a point.

Honda: 3/10, done well in practice but then it all fell apart, racing always at the back, at this rate their 'B' team will be fighting with them.

Red Bull: 6/10, maybe a bit slower compared to NA, DC was compeating for the final point, Klien had a quiet race.

BMW Sauber: 7/10, Heidfeld done well to grab a point, shame the race and quali pace didn't match their practice pace.

Midland: 5/10, quiet race, Monterio having a spectacular retirement, Albers finishing low.

Toro Rosso: 8/10, raced with their big sister team, Red Bull, Speed done well but run in the sand costed him.

Super Aguri: 6/10, expected to finish dead last on a circuit that is fairly fast at times, Sato DNF'd, Montagny last of the finishers.

Good post Bee! 👍 I did not really get to watch a lot of the race because there was a bunch of family over for my sister's birthday. I probably "watched" two-thirds of the race, but did not really take any of it in. You have done a good job in summing up the race for me! 👍
 
kylehnat
Snooooooooore.....

I love it when the race is over in the first corner. I think today's race made it quite clear that tire wars are bad for the sport. Personally, I think that next year, Bridgestone should only be allowed bring ONE compound to each race. That would put the whole field on the same tires, and would keep them from making these ridiculous Ferrari-specials.
Oh, and while we’re at it we should have spec engines. Oh, and gearboxes. Yeah, yeah, chassis too. While we’re on a role lets just get rid of the manufacturers entirely, and put everyone in go-karts.
 
Blake
Oh, and while we’re at it we should have spec engines. Oh, and gearboxes. Yeah, yeah, chassis too. While we’re on a role lets just get rid of the manufacturers entirely, and put everyone in go-karts.
Hell, let's just make them walk around the track. But no speedwalking!! :p

I just meant that I think tires are too much of a factor nowadays. Ferrari blamed most of their problems last year on Bridgestone, and everyone is blaming Michelin for the lack of pace in the last two races. Let's just eliminate that factor altogether, as the teams have no control over it anyway.

Imagine you spend 15 months modifying your car, preparing for a drag race. Then, come raceday, your tire supplier gives you bicycle tires, and your competitor gets racing slicks from his supplier. The race is over before it begins, even if you've managed to build the better car. If you're both given identical sets of tires, that factor is eliminated, and if you lose, you know it's because your car is not up to snuff, not because you got crappy tires.

The bottom line is that I want to see who built the best car, not who has the best tires.
 
But the teams to have a choice. They can get their tyres from anyone who’s willing to do it. Just the same as teams can get engines from anyone who’s willing to do it.

It’s just another aspect of competition.
 
God that was boring. Again. Qualifying was better as usual, and if anyone from F1 saw the Moto GP race earlier PLEASE could you try to make it as interesting as that (and I don't even like bikes in the first place).
 
KSaiyu
God that was boring. Again. Qualifying was better as usual, and if anyone from F1 saw the Moto GP race earlier PLEASE could you try to make it as interesting as that (and I don't even like bikes in the first place).

There are several reasons why modern F1 racing will never be as close as MotoGP.

Firstly, modern F1 cars are very heavily reliant on aerodynamic downforce for their grip and performance. MotoGP bikes don't (AFAIK) produce any downforce at all. When you have a vehicle that's very reliant on downforce travelling closely behind another vehicle, the following car will be in the turbulent or dirty air coming off the back of the vehicle in front. The air has been worked very hard over the vehicle in front and when it comes off the back wing it is very badly disturbed and won't produce the same levels of downforce for the following vehicle. In current F1 it's generally accepted that a car travelling within 1 second of the car in front will suffer from this dirty air and the resultant lack of downforce. This means that it's difficult to follow the car in front especially through high speed turns. In MotoGP, there isn't the same problem of dirty air, bikes can follow each other closely through turns without losing any appreciable degree of performance.

Secondly, cars are much wider than bikes. Put two MotoGP bikes side by side on the track and they'll take up less room than a single F1 car. Most modern tracks are fairly wide, but on most tracks there won't be much room left when you put two F1 cars side by side. This lack of space means that it's more difficult in F1 to get two cars side by side into, through, or out of a turn. This, in part, leads to the processional nature of F1. Also, when you have two drivers side by side through a corner, obviously one of them will have to travel a further distance round the outside of the corner than the other. Due to the width of the cars, if you're alongside someone else your inside wheels will be at least two metres outside of their inside wheels. In MotoGP, you can regularly see riders go side by side round corners within the same metre or so of track. The difference in extra distance the F1 car and MotoGP bikes have to go means the driver on the outside is further disadvantaged in F1.

Thirdly, F1 cars stop a lot quicker than MotoGP bikes do. I don't have any braking distance figures for MotoGP bikes, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if they needed twice the distance F1 cars do to stop for the same corners. If someone could provide any braking distance data for modern MotoGP bikes at circuits the F1 cars visit, I'd appreciate that. Not only do bikes have a much smaller contact patch than F1 cars (two skinny tyres versus four huge ones), but hard braking on any bike causes the rear to lift, decreasing the effectiveness of the rear brake. There's also the possibility of locking the front wheel under braking on a MotoGP bike, not a pretty sight if you've ever seen it. MotoGP bikes are often quicker at the end of long straights than F1 cars, due to their comparative lack of drag, so this added straightline speed is also a contributing factor. If you want to overtake an F1 car under braking, you'll have to make up a large portion (or all) of the several metres length of an F1 car (I think it's somewhere around 4.5 metres currently, but I'm having trouble finding an exact figure). If the braking zone is only 75 metres long, you have to be about 6% better than the person you're trying to overtake on the brakes. 6% might not sound like a lot, but remember that the braking systems are all very similar and all the cars weigh the same, so unless you're on fresh tyres or carrying less fuel you're not likely to be able to make up that 6% difference. Now, in MotoGP, the bikes are obviously a lot shorter than F1 cars and the braking zones are much longer. As I said before, I don't have any braking distance data for MotoGP bikes, so I can only speculate on how much better you have to be on the brakes than the other rider, but assuming the braking distance is double that of F1 and the bikes are roughly half the length of F1 cars, you only have to be 1-2% better than the other ride on the brakes.

Fourthly, it's much easier to accelerate in F1 than it is in MotoGP. As I said before, F1 cars have a lot more grip, but they also have advanced traction control systems which serve to effectively take the driver out of the equation and equalise the acceleration of the cars. Some cars are obviously more powerful than others and some have better traction but they're largely the same. You very rarely see modern F1 cars passing other cars on acceleration out of corners (in fact, when the BARs were able to do just that a couple of years ago they were amazed because it was so unusual). MotoGP bikes, on the other hand, are much more difficult to power out of corners. Yes, they have traction control systems, but the riders still play a big part in the equation, unlike F1. You can still see the riders struggling to keep the front wheel down under hard acceleration. This more difficult acceleration leaves an opportunity for the better riders to get runs on the people in front out of corners, because they control the throttle better.

Lastly, F1 cars are a lot quicker than MotoGP bikes, something in the region of 30 seconds per lap at Barcelona. I'm not saying that MotoGP bikes are easier to ride than F1 cars are to drive but when you're travelling at a much higher average speed, you have less time to react to incidents ahead of you.

Might aswell post something on-topic now :lol:

I'm happy to see Schumacher winning but ideally Massa and one or two of the Toyotas would have been between Schumacher and Alonso. Still, 10 points is 10 points.
 
To be honest I think that would have made the matter worse because in the second half of the race Massa complained of tyre wear.
 
amp88
There are several reasons why modern F1 racing will never be as close as MotoGP....

So undo all that and bring the excitement back to how it was up until the early 90s. Notice I didn't say it should be as close as Moto GP, since that's impossible for the reasons you listed, but I would like it to be as exciting and interesting as a Moto GP race. You get more action in one race there than a season of modern F1 now.
 
About the tire battles mentioned earlier... Tires are part of the package. Just like an engine, brakes, aerodynamics, driver, gearbox, and suspension. There is no reason to remove any part of the car from the competition. Michelin is in competition, just like Scuderia, Ferrari, and Alonzo. Each is competing with different people/companies and for different things, but that's what makes these races great - all of the elements at the top of their game. Remove any part of that it the race gets that much more boring in my mind. I don't care if the cars have trouble passing. It just means they aren't THAT much faster. I don't care if the 1st place guy leads the entire race. All I care about is seeing engineering at its finest and which combination takes the win.
 
I didn't think the race was boring, especially if you looked past 1st place.

Good job to Renault on the pit strategy switch.
 
Schumi Freak #1
Yaayy Go Schumi! Keep it up! 17 points behind now! Come on Hockenheim!
LOL

I had to laugh at James Allens comments on those two things on the front of the BMW, "all they need is a rubber band and they'll have a catapult to shoot the cars in front of them" :lol:
 

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