2009 Japanese Grand Prix

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Ardius
Hmm, I'm of two minds about that. Brundle raised some good points, it may take away the excitement of strategy and just mean all the pit stops are earlier in the race, leaving the final laps to be less exciting because the result will be all but set in stone.
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I bet that's what will happen.
 
zed300
I 'm pretty sure this would creat a lot of passing.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=3449372&postcount=24
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I personally wouldn't like that random effect, the teams cannot predict how tyres will react, what the weather conditions will be like or if any red flag situations happen (which can lead to punctured tyres, wasting fresh tyres etc).

It wouldn't be fair and we would have too many random results..probably.

Also, I don't think it would improve overtaking, if someone's tyre choices are wrong, they will be consistently slow, so they will be overtaken once and thats it. Not exactly improving the spectacle is it?

Tyres should stay as they are, because the heavier fuel loads by themselves should create higher tyre wear and will at least make different car and driver combinations last different lengths of time without pitting depending on how well they look after the tyres.
 
Ardius
Hmm, I'm of two minds about that. Brundle raised some good points, it may take away the excitement of strategy and just mean all the pit stops are earlier in the race, leaving the final laps to be less exciting because the result will be all but set in stone.
But on the other side, we may see more interest with tyre wear, though it hasn't really been much of a issue this year, we will see with more fuel and smaller fronts.

I doubt it will be the glorious return that some seem to expect and I will miss the 1-stop and 3 or even 4 stop surprsies. No more Schumacher-like races where he has to put in qualy laps to win, I thinkt they should have sorted out the overtaking before doing this really.
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If you look at the races in the 80's you may get an idea of what'll happen. At that time, some people would go the full race without ever stopping (I hope that will be allowed and they drop this ridiculous rule that you have to use two different kinds of tire per race) while others would do a one or two stop strategy. So you would have some guys going nuts and then stopping and others like Prost having a very conservative race and catching up at the end. And although it might take away some of the strategy away, it means that all overtaking will be done on the track, not on the pits.
 
But its not really solving the problem. Its just forcing the problem to become much more significant.

Drivers will still have trouble overtaking, not running fuel strategies won't magically change the racing, it will just take out one more interesting side to F1.
But, I can see that tyre wear may make some races interesting, but I doubt it will be any different to this year in terms of track action.

Now, rather than a faster driver being stuck behind and jumping in fuel strategy, they will be stuck for the whole race and have to hope the tyres wear quicker on his opponents. Its more likely to be boring than interesting, at least for what people are complaining about and asking for. I will still be interested in the differences in tyre wear and watching drivers pushing each into mistakes, but this isn't seemingly what others are interested in - they want on track action and I doubt banning refuelling is a solution.

Also, thanks to only one tyre manufacturer, the differences in tyre wear may be less significant than if we still had a tyre war. Many of the great races in the past were also contributed by certain tyres performing better than others in specific conditions(Bridgestones in 1997, for example).
 
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Well, if there's a better driver behind he could throw caution to the wind and go nuts with the tires using a strategy that has more stops (similar to what Barrichello did on his first victory in that legendary Hockenheim race in 2000). You could also see drivers going fast at the beginning and then struggling at the end, more or less like Button and Kubica in the last race. A final thing to add to that is the fuel saving and the fact that you can run out of fuel if you don't take care of it.
 
The setup of the car will help a bit. None refueling racing means that you set the car up on half tanks so the car sits heavily on its suspension at the start of the race and will stand up on its suspension in the last part of the race.

They could also ban diffusers entirely and make the teams run a single element flat plane rear wing to reduce interference when following another car.
 
Tired Tyres
The setup of the car will help a bit. None refueling racing means that you set the car up on half tanks so the car sits heavily on its suspension at the start of the race and will stand up on its suspension in the last part of the race.

They could also ban diffusers entirely and make the teams run a single element flat plane rear wing to reduce interference when following another car.
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Proper set-up will definitely be crucial to consistent race pace and getting the tires to last effectively throughout the race...it will be an interesting aspect especially on all of the different circuits 👍

It's really going to be interesting to see who can make their tires last and who can't. A smooth driver like Button will probably be quite successful, as well as the really experienced and skilled drivers like Alonso and Kimi who have great car/throttle control. In the end it will be much like Motorcycle racing, where a big aspect of the race is about saving your tires until the end when it counts. A lot of drivers will probably toast their tires by the end of the race (Heikki for example) which could potentially bring about a lot of errors and opportunities for passing...which sounds good to me :)

And I agree with banning diffusers entirely. Boy would the cars be much more fun to watch to...more like the old days :sly: Of course they would have to find other ways to increase the lap times, otherwise it wouldn't be the pinnacle of motorsports in terms of performance. The cars could definitely do with a bit more power than in their current state as well as grippier tires. A sucker fan (like the Brabham BT46) with minor ground effects (nothing dangerous) might be another way to increase aerodynamic grip without sacrificing overtaking, as there would be very little dirty from such a design. In fact such a design would promote overtaking as the fan would eject air directly to the car behind, without a big wake that we see with the current DD design. I doubht we will see such changes anytime soon though, if ever :lol:
 
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^Banning diffusers? You do realise they've had diffusers for a long time right? Its not the only cause of wake, though it does play a part, get rid of the double/triple-diffusers maybe, seeing as the OWG didn't intend for the teams to use them...

tibiquera
Well, if there's a better driver behind he could throw caution to the wind and go nuts with the tires using a strategy that has more stops (similar to what Barrichello did on his first victory in that legendary Hockenheim race in 2000). You could also see drivers going fast at the beginning and then struggling at the end, more or less like Button and Kubica in the last race. A final thing to add to that is the fuel saving and the fact that you can run out of fuel if you don't take care of it.
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Well now you're just dodging the point, none of that is solving the overtaking issue.
It will still be interesting, of that I am sure. But whether it "improves" F1 is yet to be seen. I don't its really worth the difference, at least not till they solve the overtaking thing first.
 
Ardius
Well now you're just dodging the point, none of that is solving the overtaking issue.
It will still be interesting, of that I am sure. But whether it "improves" F1 is yet to be seen. I don't its really worth the difference, at least not till they solve the overtaking thing first.
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What I'm saying is you can have a driver going for no stops and another one going for 2, and in this case the difference of performance would be enough to help overtakings. With different strategies the possibility of overtaking is increased.
 
Derestricting KERS might help overtaking...

Also - I was surprised the other day when I read that the size of the brake discs are limited? I would've thought that they could've left that to the teams?!

C.
 
It was a fun race to watch on tv, sucks I had to stay up till 3 in the morning to watch.
 
yeti
Derestricting KERS might help overtaking...

Also - I was surprised the other day when I read that the size of the brake discs are limited? I would've thought that they could've left that to the teams?!

C.
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Brake parady would be important, so a car chasing closely, can brake at same rate as the car in front. If not, a lot more accidents would occur.
 
zed300
Brake parady would be important, so a car chasing closely, can brake at same rate as the car in front. If not, a lot more accidents would occur.
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That's wrong - drivers behind don't know when the car in front is braking until it's too late (no braking lights in F1) - they'd need to be braking dependant on their own brakes not someone elses...

C.
 
gp_japao.jpg
 
FatAssBR
gp_japao.jpg
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Actually, it's not very confusing: Vettel's line goes to the Trophy, Barrichello's line goes to "OMG" Button, and Alonso's line goes to a...crutch?

I don't get that.
 
That's Glock not Alonso. Glock+Cut=Crutch.
 
I gotta wonder, why Barrichello's red eyes? They look funny even if I don't get it. :lol:
 
LSX
That's Glock not Alonso. Glock+Cut=Crutch.
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Oh crap...I didn't se the Panasonic logo in there. I just looked at the red-and-yellow flag.
 
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