2016 Le Mans 24 Hours - 15th to 19th June 2016

  • Thread starter Thread starter Furinkazen
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Regarding the BOP debacle, how hard is it to get an independent driver to set laptimes with every car at a chosen track at the start of the season, then freeze all car development throughout the season (safety modifications aside)? I mean the concept itself is not rocket science, but this is racing so obviously there will be rule bending expected. Rather than trying to chase a moving target, might as well fix the target and let the teams deal with it.

The way Super GT and FIA GT did in the past (using ballast based on race results) is also pretty foolproof. Why make it complicated?
 
Regarding the BOP debacle, how hard is it to get an independent driver to set laptimes with every car at a chosen track at the start of the season, then freeze all car development throughout the season (safety modifications aside)? I mean the concept itself is not rocket science, but this is racing so obviously there will be rule bending expected. Rather than trying to chase a moving target, might as well fix the target and let the teams deal with it.
Finding a driver who has had the equal amount in each car and is equally good in each different car. Having the cars out on track at different times leaves room for the conditions to change quite a bit and getting the teams to release their cars to an independent driver would be a challenge.

The way Super GT and FIA GT did in the past (using ballast based on race results) is also pretty foolproof. Why make it complicated?
Teams would still be able to sandbag in the first two WEC races so they avoid success ballast for LM.

Taking cars that aren't equal and attempting to equalise their performance is very difficult and teams are always going to try and manipulate it in their favour where they can. Especially for a race like Le Mans.
I don't really know what they could do outside of super-tight or super-loose regs. I like the idea of the independent testing but I wonder how they could do it...
 
Sandbagging or not, I'm confident that Corvette will take several positions in the race through consistent pace, reliability, and team experience at Le Mans. Ford could easily face so many unforeseen challenges leading to retirement or plenty of garage time. They haven't done 24 hours since Daytona, where the new car only scratched the surface of what longer endurances entail. They have come a long way since Daytona but Le Mans takes a lot. Ultimately, I'm hoping for good racing between the different GTE cars and weather should be interesting this weekend.
 
Regarding the BOP debacle, how hard is it to get an independent driver to set laptimes with every car at a chosen track at the start of the season, then freeze all car development throughout the season (safety modifications aside)? I mean the concept itself is not rocket science, but this is racing so obviously there will be rule bending expected. Rather than trying to chase a moving target, might as well fix the target and let the teams deal with it.

The way Super GT and FIA GT did in the past (using ballast based on race results) is also pretty foolproof. Why make it complicated?
Just dyno the engines and then tell the teams how much weight they have to carry. Everyone gets the same fuel tank size and pwr equal to a thousandth equals no bop needed. Someone has an advantage because of aero/chassis/fuel efficiency wise? Good job on driving the formula forward - enjoy your advantage. The end. Sandbag sales disaster.
 
1. Ford got BOP'd...happy?
2. BOP and sandbagging have been a part of racing nearly forever...deal with it.
3. You Vette guys seem to forget Daytona, where the Vettes drove away from everybody like they were standing still when they half tried.
4. Nobody sandbags like the chipster...nobody!
5. Want some cheese :D

Anyway, I was torn when they gave the GT program to CGR, I have always hated his teams. But I bleed Ford blue and Ferrari red so I got to stand by my teams. Looking forward to spending the race with you all again this year, but could we tone down the whining a bit at least until the race starts 👍

:gtpflag:
 
1. Ford got BOP'd...happy?
Yes, Ferrari too.
2. BOP and sandbagging have been a part of racing nearly forever...deal with it
It was, have some lead for your pockets.
3. You Vette guys seem to forget Daytona, where the Vettes drove away from everybody like they were standing still when they half tried.
Different series, different politics.
4. Nobody sandbags like the chipster...nobody!
Dont forget George Howard-Chappell who brought the RHD sandbags.
5. Want some cheese :D
I dont want to be bored to death watching Ford and Ferrari's political BS
 
I'd say that's a good fix, corect me if I'm wrong but it's the first year they're running turbo GTEs so this kind of unbalance tends to happen. At the end of the day, there is replacement for displacement...and then some. Here's hoping it makes for some close racing, and may the best team on track win.

Also, .4mm? :censored:ing hell! The kind of measurements and tolerances this guys deal with just begs belief!!!

Corvette only has restrictors on hand that allow for .2mm so they wont be able to take full advantage and A.M. received +.4mm. http://www.racer.com/wec-le-mans/item/130910-lm24-sweeping-pre-race-gte-pro-bop-changes-made

Surely, the guys at P&M could get a +.4mm restrictor made in a hurry and "ship it overnight from Japan"! Is there any rule that forbids from doing this?

Anyway, if the 'Vettes get close to Ford with +.2 instead of +.4 that'll shut up the Ford fanboys accusing the Corvettes back at sandbagging. And if it proves to be too much, I take my engine booming wishes from one side of Detroit to another.

I just want whoever is sandbagging to get bitten by La Sarthe. Hard.

1. Ford got BOP'd...happy?
2. BOP and sandbagging have been a part of racing nearly forever...deal with it.
3. You Vette guys seem to forget Daytona, where the Vettes drove away from everybody like they were standing still when they half tried.
4. Nobody sandbags like the chipster...nobody!
5. Want some cheese :D

Anyway, I was torn when they gave the GT program to CGR, I have always hated his teams. But I bleed Ford blue and Ferrari red so I got to stand by my teams. Looking forward to spending the race with you all again this year, but could we tone down the whining a bit at least until the race starts 👍

:gtpflag:

Your attitude is sooooo CarThrottle, dare I say that it even belongs in aut/o/, but here in GTP we can do just fine without the "lol u butthurt" kind of people.
 
Yeah, i'm sure as soon as they knew they got a .4 increase P&M started machining haha :)

^to the above, .4 mm is actually quite a lot to be honest :D
 
Yeah, i'm sure as soon as they knew they got a .4 increase P&M started machining haha :)

^to the above, .4 mm is actually quite a lot to be honest :D

Well, yeah, coming to think if you told me the piston rings in my engine are +/- .4mm off I'd freak out but on a day to day basis and for your average mindset it's an almost negligible amount. You never go buy cheese and ask for .4mm slices! :lol:
 
Yeah, i'm sure as soon as they knew they got a .4 increase P&M started machining haha :)

^to the above, .4 mm is actually quite a lot to be honest :D
Just to clarify Aston got the .4mm increase, Corvette got a .3mm increase. Still glad to hear as the sandbagging, and the BoP changes after the practice session were ridiculous. Glad they addressed it or else I would have watched the entire race with a resting bitch face.
 
Welp, its the pick train. :p

LMP1 - Rebellion #12
LMP2 - Alpine #35
LMGTE-Pro - Aston Martin #95
LMGTE-Am - Labre Corvette #50
 
Oh, we're doing this already?

LMP1 - I'm torn. I'm a fan of Webber, Kobayashi and Lotterer but it'll be tough beating the Porsches. Audi, as a team, is VERY strong and Toyota is using a relatively new and unproven powerplant. I'm betting on Porsche #1.

LMP2 - I just realized how uninformed I am on the lesser categories. Rene Rast's name is being thrown everywhere so that'd be my pick given we have no GT Academy graduates AFAIK. I just want the Gas Monkey-sponsored car to be dead last, the least I see Richard Rawlings smile the better.

GTE-Pro - I want whoever is sandbagging to lose badly. Don't care if it's Ford, Ferrari, the Jake squad, Aston or Porsche. I'd also love the demoted Porsche squad to win just so they can blow a raspberry to their bosses. I want us, the fans, to win.

GTE-Am - Same as with LMP2, barely any idea. Uh...there's a car with a Gulf livery, that's lovely. Always liked Aston too, specially considering that Simonsen is still fresh in our minds.

EXP. - PLEASE CAR #84, YOU GOTTA WORK ENOUGH TIME FOR THE WORLD TO SEE A QUADRUPLE AMPUTEE DRIVING!
 
Your attitude is sooooo CarThrottle, dare I say that it even belongs in aut/o/, but here in GTP we can do just fine without the "lol u butthurt" kind of people.

My, we got a few wound up tight early this year don't we? I hope everyone gets a good nights sleep before the race tomorrow, sounds like more than a few could use it :) <--- note the smiley CB, something you may have missed in my first post. I have been hangin' out here with the planet gang for the past 6 years for the LM-24 and we seem to get along just fine. If you can't take a little good natured ribbing you may want to check out the kiddie room next door. It's going to get a whole lot worse than that in here before the race is over. Wait until hour 20 when half the people are drunk or half asleep...it's always fun in here :crazy: See you all in the morning 👍
 
1. Ford got BOP'd...happy?
2. BOP and sandbagging have been a part of racing nearly forever...deal with it.
3. You Vette guys seem to forget Daytona, where the Vettes drove away from everybody like they were standing still when they half tried.
4. Nobody sandbags like the chipster...nobody!
5. Want some cheese :D

Anyway, I was torn when they gave the GT program to CGR, I have always hated his teams. But I bleed Ford blue and Ferrari red so I got to stand by my teams. Looking forward to spending the race with you all again this year, but could we tone down the whining a bit at least until the race starts 👍

:gtpflag:

In a series like F1 it makes sense to sandbag, because if you look slow in testing people wont look at your car, rather they have to look at other areas such a stint pace. It's different at LM because you're not testing a car for 20+ different tracks and varying conditions from track to track. Rather you're judging a car for that particular track, when you game the system by that much, you're deliberately putting the sport in disrepute. The cop out of, "well that's just racing" is just that a cop out.

Also Vette didn't drive away, they had Porsche on them and at times BMW had speed, especially on restarts, none of that matters though cause this pace was shown in the drive up to Daytona race. And after they were adjusted, and still won. Also this isn't a team matter, this is a pure matter of sport, I can't stand AMR and I only care for Porsche to a small degree, but I feel they too weren't treated fair. I'm a fan of the spirit of the race itself, if the amount of money Ford is pouring in amounts to CGR having to pull this crap, then they may want to put their money in a more competent team.


Doesn't matter now, BoP has been fixed. I'm quite happy to see it be anyone's ball game from the get go. Anyone that isn't Ferrari or Ford still need to drive up the field while maintaining reliability and pace.
 
In a series like F1 it makes sense to sandbag, because if you look slow in testing people wont look at your car, rather they have to look at other areas such a stint pace. It's different at LM because you're not testing a car for 20+ different tracks and varying conditions from track to track. Rather you're judging a car for that particular track, when you game the system by that much, you're deliberately putting the sport in disrepute. The cop out of, "well that's just racing" is just that a cop out.

Also Vette didn't drive away, they had Porsche on them and at times BMW had speed, especially on restarts, none of that matters though cause this pace was shown in the drive up to Daytona race. And after they were adjusted, and still won. Also this isn't a team matter, this is a pure matter of sport, I can't stand AMR and I only care for Porsche to a small degree, but I feel they too weren't treated fair. I'm a fan of the spirit of the race itself, if the amount of money Ford is pouring in amounts to CGR having to pull this crap, then they may want to put their money in a more competent team.

Like I said, I have never liked CGR and wish Ford would have chosen somebody (anybody) else to run the program, but that is not my call. Hopefully the latest adjustment will help close things up. In a perfect world they could even the cars exactly, but I have no idea how that is possible. I'm just glad it's not my job! Anyway, it's a long race and anything can and will happen, lets hope lady luck and time keep things tight 👍
 
My prediction for the race tomorrow: 14 hours of racing, 10 hours of red flag due to light rain.

In the training and qualifying they treated the cars like they were made of sugar, it was competently ridiculous. I'm all for safety in motor sports but like everything in this world you can go overboard with it, and this is the case right now.
 
In the training and qualifying they treated the cars like they were made of sugar, it was competently ridiculous. I'm all for safety in motor sports but like everything in this world you can go overboard with it, and this is the case right now
When did they go overboard in quali? They took far, far too long to throw the reds yesterday - the minute drivers can't control their cars at all, it's time to call it a day.

I get that people have been frustrated recently by the lack of racing action in various series, but so far lots of weekends have been hit with horrendous weather. It's very unfortunate but that's just how things go sometimes.
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@Furinkazen's drinking game becomes the official GTP LM24 drinking game. The rules are clarified at the bottom. Good luck folks.

2016 LM drinking game.jpg
 
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