2019 MotoGP/WSBK/Motorcycle Racing Thread

Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by Ryanswannell, Jan 10, 2019.

  1. Carbon_6

    Carbon_6

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    That's pretty much it in a nutshell. :tup:

    If the aero parts had been used only by Petrucci (to counter the rear tyre overheating as a result of his burly stature), then nothing would have been said – it was a modification widely accepted by the other manufacturers. It was only when they appeared on the GP19s of Dovizioso and Miller for the race that the s*** hit the fan.

    The Court of Appeal must decide whether the bolt-on is a tyre cooler, for which use it was approved, or an aerodynamic device, in which case it “isn’t permitted in the guidelines” (note that last word). Or perhaps they'll decide that it’s a bit of both...

    Considering the rules as they stand don't ban the use of the aero parts in question, I'd be surprised if the results are overturned.

    Ducati themselves have been pretty bullish since the protest was deferred, with an alleged counter-attack coming in the form of a protest against Honda regarding their fairing-mounted aero – the "X-Wings" as some have dubbed them. According to Dall’Igna in an interview with a local newspaper, the thin profile of the wings mean they're likely to be flexible under aerodynamic load, something the rules deem illegal.
     
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  2. ShiftingGears

    ShiftingGears

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    Great race to start the year. Hoping the aero developments dont come at the cost of close racing.
     
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  3. Carbon_6

    Carbon_6

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    Looks like the MotoE calendar has been sorted for 2019 following the fire that ripped through the paddock at the Jerez test a couple of weeks ago.

    Neither Jerez in Spain or Le Mans in France will host races for this year at least, so what would've been the original third venue will now become the season opener: Sachsenring in Germany, on the same weekend as MotoGP (July 5th-7th). That aspect of the original schedule remains the same for the newly revised schedule:

    Red Bull Ring, Austria – August 9th-11th
    Misano, Italy – September 13th-15th
    Valencia, Spain – November 15th-17th

    Misano and Valencia will host two races each, meaning the calendar remains six races long. Testing is due to take place in June at a yet to be confirmed circuit.

    The investigation into the cause of the fire (initially believed to be a short circuit) is still ongoing.

    ––––––––––

    In other news, the ruling from the Court of Appeal on Ducati's aerodynamic/tyre cooling device has finally been made public: it is legal.

    It means the results from Qatar officially stand, with a request made to ban the device all together for the remainder of the season being rejected too. There is a five day period for the teams who lodged the protest to appeal the decision by going to the Court of Arbitration, but I suspect nothing more will be said.

    Interestingly, the official statement from the meeting states that the teams didn't collectively protest against the three Ducatis, but split their efforts between them: Suzuki against Miller, Honda against Dovizioso, and KTM and Aprilia against Petrucci.

    Either way, the door is now well and truly open for every major player on the grid to see if they can come up with their own aerodynamic/tyre cooling devices.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2019
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  4. Ryanswannell

    Ryanswannell

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    Yep, I fully expect most teams to have a similar device attached within the next few races now :lol:
     
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  5. adamp93

    adamp93

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    From what I have read Ducati got the idea from Yamaha when they had a device to stop water getting onto the back tyre. How exactly Ducati's thing is supposed to work with the front wheel cover to cool the rear tyre I've no idea, but then again they pay people a lot of money to come up with it and I'm not one of them.
     
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  6. Carbon_6

    Carbon_6

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    The front wheel covers mearly clean up the turbulence generated by the spokes at speed, so that when the more consistent (and efficient) flow of air travels the length of the lower body panels to the swing arm, the “scoop” can send it towards the rear tyre surface. It sounds simplistic in its setup, but the argument over the semantics of its use have thus far been anything but.

    Ducati were in the clear because they were able to prove via telemetry generated by Michelin, that the temperature of the rear tyre was cooled by as much as seven degrees by the device. The secondary “unintended” effect is that it produces increasing aerodynamic downforce the faster the bike travels (around 0.3kg up to 100mph and anything like 1kg at 200mph+).

    So that extra bit of downforce generated from high speed means that when the rider hits a braking point into a turn, the rear tyre should remain in contact with the tarmac more rather than hop across its surface (weight transfer means the rear becomes light), meaning the bike is more stable, and an extra bit of stopping power from the rear brake.

    The factory however didn’t emerge unscathed: the equivalent of half their aerodynamic budget was allegedly lost in the successful defence of their case. Plus the data that was private only to them had to be made public during the meeting at the Court of Appeal, meaning all the protesting teams could get a better look at the finer details.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2019
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  7. Whodoyouthink

    Whodoyouthink

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    :eek:

    If MotoGP team budgets are anywhere comparable to F1 budgets, then that is hard to fathom. Between estimating the amount they spend on aero R&D and estimating how much that legal defense ended up costing, it's really mind boggling. Not to mention, it also seems like one very intense/dramatic/hectic start to the season. I can understand protests and defense cases dragging on for a bit, but after only 1 race and already so much has been spent; that is a bit surreal.
     
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  8. Carbon_6

    Carbon_6

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    Going by approximate 2018 figures, F1 team budgets nowadays can range from anything in the region of $120 to $400+ million. By comparison, although MotoGP budgets are a bit difficult to nail down, rough figures thrown around by various sources normally fall between €15 to €40 million.

    Teams normally have just 10 days of aerodynamic R&D budget to work with per season. Considering how important that field of development is starting to become in MotoGP, losing even a single day can be painful enough, let alone five!

    It's because this sort of case has never been encountered before in the series, mostly because the wording of the guidelines are actually quite vague. A point proved by Honda in the build up to the race weekend in Argentina.

    They had created their own swing arm "scoop" in the wake of the Court of Appeal ruling in favour of Ducati, but when they presented it to technical director Danny Aldridge's team for approval on Thursday, it was denied because Honda had stated its primary use was for aerodynamics, which in the guidelines is illegal. However when the team returned the following day and stated that the device's use was for tyre cooling, it was approved... despite the fact that no physical change had been made to the device whatsoever.

    And that is the crux of the issue. The wording of the guidelines states that the use of such device has to be either tyre cooling, rain deflection or debris deflection, with the purpose/intention being whatever the manufacturer claims it to be. Any secondary effect can be ignored. But if the word "effect" had been used in the guidelines instead of purpose, then nothing that we've seen or heard so far would've happened. If the guidelines had read that swing arm attachments were allowed as long as "their effect is not to generate aerodynamic forces", then both the Honda and Ducati "scoops" would have been ruled illegal, unless proven that they didn't generate any downforce.

    However, whilst it's clear that more clarity is needed, the rules are something that Aldridge's team cannot change: their job is to analyse and interpret the rules presented by the MSMA, the joint association of manufacturers racing in MotoGP. The reason for the gaping loophole was because the MSMA had (unintentionally?) put it there in the first place. Under the terms of the contracts the manufacturers have with Dorna (the series rights holder), the MSMA has sole control over the technical rules, as long as they agree unanimously among themselves. If they don't like them, then it's up to the MSMA to change them or propose alternatives.

    Given that Ducati has invested heavily in aerodynamics, while the other manufacturers are more reserved about going down that road, that could well be no easy task...
     
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  9. spyrrari

    spyrrari

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    Great race in motogp....well,for 2nd place that is !!


    Very happy to see Vale back on the podium!!



    Spy.
     
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  10. Carbon_6

    Carbon_6

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    Marquez in pit lane looking around as if to say: “Where is everyone?” :confused::D

     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2019
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  11. Carbon_6

    Carbon_6

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    So Bautista set a new record at Assen for back-to-back victories in a WorldSBK season (currently at 11), and Rins beat Rossi to earn his first MotoGP win after Marquez crashed out of the lead at COTA, handing Dovizioso a championship lifeline.

    Talk about surprises. :eek:
     
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  12. C-ZETA

    C-ZETA

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    So not WSBK, then.

    Marquez going down made that COTA race an instant classic, and whether either Rins or Rossi had won, that made it even more so. Over the moon for Suzuki and Rins, incredible how they've slipped under so many radars given how he quietly finished fifth last year. This season is lining up magnificently already. If it stays a genuine four-way fight throughout with four different manufacturers that'd make the series about as good as racing can get. Let's hope the following races don't end up like last year's went...where everyone fell over and gave Marquez a headstart for the rest of the year.
     
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  13. Carbon_6

    Carbon_6

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    No doubt about the commitment of the Spanish MotoGP fans, and the races did more than enough to repay them.



    Commiserations go out to Quartararo, Morbidelli and the guys at SRT Yamaha. It was perhaps inevitable that a podium finish wasn't certain despite their quite frankly amazing qualifying result, but to lose Fabio via a broken gear changer was painful. Fair play to them both though for being able to run with the wolves as long as they did. :tup:
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2019
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  14. spyrrari

    spyrrari

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    what an incredible motogp race just now....pffff ,amazing!


    Spy.
     
  15. Was tense at the end egging on Petrucci.
     
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  16. Carbon_6

    Carbon_6

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    It had been an ambition for some time to travel to Mugello to experience the craziness and passion for myself. That ambition is finally fulfilled, and boy did it not disappoint.

    It was pretty much everything I'd heard/seen from various sources, but like every sporting event, being there in person trumps anything that TV can offer – seeing and hearing the action unfold trackside just can't be bested. Even with Rossi out of the picture pretty much all weekend, there was a real air of celebration when Petrucci crossed the line, and seeing the crowds break ranks from all corners of the track to celebrate with him below the podium singing Il Canto degli Italiani as one voice, was a sight to behold.

    There's a link to some of the photos I snapped during the weekend below if you want to see them, along with others taking during my trip to the Monaco GP.

    https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/amateur-photo-thread.289035/page-40#post-12768942
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
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  17. Carbon_6

    Carbon_6

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    Umm... didn't expect this to happen. :eek:



    You get the feeling Lorenzo really wanted to show off his best Miley Cyrus impression. :rolleyes:

    Either way, it was a real hammer blow to the title hopes of those involved, especially Dovizioso – 37 points behind Marquez leaving Barcelona, with Rins now only 2 points behind, and Petrucci a further 3 behind Rins.
     
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  18. spyrrari

    spyrrari

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    pfff... i was so angry yesterday i decided not to write anything here...:censored:

    What a blow to the race and championship Lorenzo created there....!!!


    :mad:


    Spy.
     
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  19. John Wells

    John Wells Premium

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    Going Knockhill British Superbikes at weekend, looking forward to it.:D:tup:
     
  20. Carbon_6

    Carbon_6

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    Looks like Lorenzo's out of the Dutch GP, and the following race in Germany too. He had a big off at turn 7 in FP1, the end result being a fractured vertebrae.

    [​IMG]

    He's definitely seen his fair share of injuries these last few months. :indiff:
     
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  21. C-ZETA

    C-ZETA

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    So remember how WSBK was screwed because the new Ducati was a beast and Alvaro Bautista was a beast?

    Yeah, he's fallen off four times in the last four meetings now. And Jonathan Rea has won five races in a row. Bautista's lead peaked at 61 after two races in Jerez. Rea now leads by 49. That's an almost inexplicable 110-point swing, against a man who won the first 11 races in a row. Who would have thought at the start of June that WSBK would have a title fight and MotoGP wouldn't. Mental.
     
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  22. Carbon_6

    Carbon_6

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    It’s been quite the swing in performance from Bautista to Rea.

    Then again, looking at Rea’s results since Phillip Island, he’s finished no lower than 5th (just the once at Misano during the Superpole race) where he crashed but rejoined. He crossed the finish line 2nd in the first 10 races alone.

    Aside from Bautista’s amazing start to the season on the V4R, Rea’s just been doing what he does best: get to the front and stay there. Apart from that one time at Misano. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019 at 6:37 PM
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  23. C-ZETA

    C-ZETA

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    Make that 81.

    Bautista fell off in the third turn of the superpole race. And busted his shoulder. Then his clutch failed early in Race 2.

    [​IMG]
    So much for a title fight. This is turning into a choke of the highest order.

    At least Chaz Davies finally won after a year and a half...you'd think they'd swapped bodies the way they both went this weekend, compared to their early season form.
     
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  24. adamp93

    adamp93

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    He has crashed, that was the race he finished 5th. I think it was only the sprint race so didn't cost as much.
     
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  25. Carbon_6

    Carbon_6

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    *checks back through results*

    [​IMG]

    *realises @adamp93 is right*

    [​IMG]


    Wow, you're right. Completely forgot about that one.

    Fixed my original post. :tup:
     
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