2022 FIFA World Cup Finals

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Meanwhile, am I the only one who's actually curious to see how this WC ends up being? Given it will be in a completely different timeframe compared to other WC, which have been at the end of the season, when players are already tired, this WC might be much more intense.

What are your thoughts on your own national team, which players should be in it, and which shouldn't?

For me, although Rafa Silva renounced to the national team a little over a month ago, I hope they're in talks to bring him back. He is in great form, and we will most likely miss Diogo Jota to injury, so there is a spot for him.
 
Heh. They couldn't pay me enough to even watch it on TV in exchange for positive comments about their legalised sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, and slavery.
I made the decision fairly early on to disengage from the whole tournament (including qualifiers) precisely because of that. Not to the extent that I'm quickly flipping over the sports pages should it show up, rather I'm just not "consuming" the content live. Some may see that as a form of virtue signalling, but eh... (it helps that England are due to play like utter Dross this time around)

In contrast, my Dad is pretty well-informed on the subject (reads the Guardian, who have done a good half dozen exclusive pieces at least on stadium working conditions over the past few years) and he still intends to watch the WC to "back the team" as he put it. He fully understands my decision on moral grounds but I don't believe it ever really entered his mind that he wasn't going to watch it. In the end I didn't really argue with him about that, seeing as I ended up watching the Saudi GP last year despite the furore surrounding it... stones in glass houses e.t.c.
 
I made the decision fairly early on to disengage from the whole tournament (including qualifiers) precisely because of that.
The effort I put into the qualifiers thread more than somewhat reflects my increasing disenfranchisement with the whole sorry debacle. I still hope - but it won't be met - that at least one team fully withdraws on the eve of the tournament and screws everything up.

Also it turns out, the England Band is among the group of supporters being paid to go and say nice things and snitch on negative social media posts. Always knew they were tone deaf, but that's another level.
 
The effort I put into the qualifiers thread more than somewhat reflects my increasing disenfranchisement with the whole sorry debacle. I still hope - but it won't be met - that at least one team fully withdraws on the eve of the tournament and screws everything up.

Also it turns out, the England Band is among the group of supporters being paid to go and say nice things and snitch on negative social media posts. Always knew they were tone deaf, but that's another level.
I might watch the England games until they get knocked out in the group stages. Then I will switch off and pretend it never happened.
 
I still hope - but it won't be met - that at least one team fully withdraws on the eve of the tournament and screws everything up.
There's no gain in doing so. It's a better use of the WC to "spread awareness" let's say, and maybe even change some minds inside Qatar and/or neighboring countries.

Right now, only a team that has no chance of winning it, would do such thing, with the great PR it would get after that. And doing something "righteous" for the PR, the likes in social media and the attention, isn't really righteous.

I will watch the games I can, for the enjoyment of the sport, and that's it.
 
It's a better use of the WC to "spread awareness" let's say, and maybe even change some minds inside Qatar and/or neighboring countries.
You got me there, I can't think of a better "use of the WC" than to serve as an analogy for this stinking event.
 
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There's no gain in doing so.
Why is it about "gain"?

It's a test of character; right now no nation has enough character to refuse to play in stadia or stay in hotels (and new cities) built by slave labour (and dead slave labour at that), refuse to pour thousands into the economy of the nation, and refuse to take part in anything that would promote the vile bastards who run the country.

If you only do stuff because you might "gain" from it, you're not passing the test. In fact that pretty much the point of the test of character - doing the right thing even though you might be harmed in doing so. Such as losing the chance to win the World Cup.

It's a better use of the WC to "spread awareness" let's say, and maybe even change some minds inside Qatar and/or neighboring countries.
Anyone remember when all the players stood up against Russia's homophobia in 2018 to spread awareness and change minds inside the nation? Yeah, me neither.

Pretty sure that the Qatari broadcasters aren't going to let anyone speak out against the regime (or at least not for very long) and the country's record of refusing to let dissidents and foreigners leave is long and bloody. Nobody is going to "spread awareness" from within the tournament; nobody's brave and stupid enough.

The only way to spread awareness is a massive, headline-grabbing cluster**** of one team - or more - just refusing to go and take part in it at all, and doing something else instead, to screw up the event. Which will also rile the homophobes, gynaephobes, transphobes, and racists in their own nations too.


I live in hope, but also the knowledge my hope is misplaced.
 
Why is it about "gain"?
It's not gain as in "what do I gain from it" but gain as "what difference will it make". The solution to the problem has long gone, with the possibility of making the tournament elsewhere, even if it required each group to be based in a different country.

It's a test of character; right now no nation has enough character to refuse to play in stadia or stay in hotels (and new cities) built by slave labour (and dead slave labour at that), refuse to pour thousands into the economy of the nation, and refuse to take part in anything that would promote the vile bastards who run the country.
Character? That sort of decision has to be made by a whole lot of people, and has to take into consideration the ramifications for those who are not at fault about what happened in Qatar. It's not as simples as you may think.

The teams being there is inevitable, but they have the power to protest. Either be it by using obvious nods to certain problems (as it already happens in many leagues with the use of rainbow-coloured braces), or anything else.
There could be (and maybe should) an agreement to make all the profit from the tournament go to those families actually afected by all that. Teams refusing to play, means only that all those lives lost, were for nothing, that will be easily forgetable in a week. Meanwhile, with the event happening, those problems you mentioned, are still talked about, and that probably would not happen if the WC was called off.

Anyone remember when all the players stood up against Russia's homophobia in 2018 to spread awareness and change minds inside the nation? Yeah, me neither.
The problem in Russia is way bigger than homophobia.

Pretty sure that the Qatari broadcasters aren't going to let anyone speak out against the regime (or at least not for very long) and the country's record of refusing to let dissidents and foreigners leave is long and bloody. Nobody is going to "spread awareness" from within the tournament; nobody's brave and stupid enough.
Except that I'm not talking about one random dude protesting amidst the game. I'm actually talking about a collective effort by all parts involved to demand change, from the players, teams, media and all that. Will Qatar arrest or kill everyone? Good luck with that.

The only way to spread awareness is a massive, headline-grabbing cluster**** of one team - or more - just refusing to go and take part in it at all, and doing something else instead, to screw up the event. Which will also rile the homophobes, gynaephobes, transphobes, and racists in their own nations too.
When was the last time something changed when some headline-grabbing cluster**** happened? Has racism in America ended with the death of George Floyd and all the attention it got? No, but we saw the extreme of anti-racism people burning down stores as they protested, which affected others who might not be to blame for anything. Which gave another reason for racist people to stay racist. It also affected people outside the US, as in the weeks after, whenever a black person was arrested for an actual crime, it was labeled as "racism".
How can you stop racism, when you put a racist (anti-white) as one of the main faces of an anti-racism movement (the guy literaly said that "the white man needs to be killed").
If you want to end homophobia/transphobia and so on, why do they keep pushing for heterophobia? Why do they come up with stupid ideas like creating a "financial bonus" for being part of the LGBT... community (proposed in Spain)? Why is a man that doesn't want a trans woman, labeled transphobic for his preferences?
Why is fatphobia a problem when it's against women, and it's fine towards men?
Had to search what gynaephobes were, I assume it's gynophobia, aka, "fear of women"/"fear of being humiliated by women"?
Why do you think feminism is so hated? Is it:
A) because men inherently hate women; or
B) because some of the ideas in that movement are really extreme.

Back on topic, why do we need to propose extreme measures, to try to solve problems like these? It never works, as the more you force people to do something, the more they hate doing it.
And you want to rile up those people you mentioned? Why? To generate more hatred? To make them even more extreme?

The solution to stop any of those problems mentioned, is by people learning to see other people as people, and if anything, everyone stays in their own path, as long as it does not affect others. And this kind of event, broadcasted around the world, can help with that, if done right.

I live in hope, but also the knowledge my hope is misplaced.
Hope in humanity? I never had. People in general care only about themselves and what affects them. And this is for everyone. Even those who do good, in most cases it's for self gratification.
 
And this kind of event, broadcasted around the world, can help with that, if done right.
Qatar-owned Al Jazeera owns the broadcast rights for the world feed. How much do you think the country's abysmal human rights - including use of slave labour - will feature on the shows?
Teams refusing to play, means only that all those lives lost, were for nothing
:lol:

Playing means that the lives were lost for nothing. It's just another football pitch in another country on another day; if the teams don't care they're literally built with blood, why will anyone else? Can't wait for a banger to go in and be wildly celebrated in a stand that cost 250 slave labourers their lives.

that will be easily forgetable in a week.
:lol:

People still (rightly) go on about Manchester United withdrawing from the FA Cup to go play in the World Club Cup, and that was just about money. You think people are going to forget the year a country straight refused to go to a World Cup because the host country is a human rights black hole?

Of course it won't happen, but I can dream.

Will Qatar arrest or kill everyone? Good luck with that.
Qatar has absolutely no problem with confiscating passports and arresting people - it's how much of its slave labour is acquired in the first place. What makes you confident it cannot or will not do that to players, broadcasters, and fans (given that it's paying fans to come and to report other fans for negative social media posts)?
The problem in Russia is way bigger than homophobia.
Oh cool, so the people stood up and came out against all the other problems then?
Back on topic, why do we need to propose extreme measures, to try to solve problems like these?
You know what won't work? Accepting Qatar into the world community with its disgusting human rights record by allowing it to host a trouble-free World Cup, because money. It legitimises the country and its anti-gay, anti-trans, anti-woman, anti-foreigner policies and attitudes. There'll be no change at all if everyone just pretends it's fine. This is precisely the goal of hosting the World Cup.

It is sportswashing - the use of sport to present a positive public face, covering up the appalling behaviour beneath. The only way to fight it is to refuse to take part.


Gary Neville pretended there were two possibilities as a broadcaster: go to the World Cup and, while there, highlight the problems; or stay home and don't. Aside from the fact he'll be working for Qatar's beIN, so there's literally no way he'll be allowed to "highlight the issues and challenges", he also ignored the third possiiblity: stay home and highlight the problems.




A national team staying home and, during its scheduled match days, dedicating its players' time and the money it would have spent with Qatari businesses to causes that support people who would be executed or imprisoned in the country for existing, would send a far stronger message than showing up and saying nothing until maybe afterwards if you're lucky.

But no-one will be bold enough.
 
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FIFA are a major problem here (obviously)...

They are the ones who handed Russia and the Qatar the World Cup - at the same time no less - and FIFA are also the ones who would impose huge financial and sporting penalties on any nation that doesn't play along.

Perhaps the best protest would be for countries to withdraw from FIFA, but alas it is probably far too late to withdraw from Qatar 2022 without legal problems and potentially massive penalties.

-

Re Gary Neville - I bet he is absolutely furious about being called out on HIGNFY. Clearly the HIGNFY team are quite well known for putting guests and guest hosts especially under a bit of light-hearted pressure, but this was pretty strong even by their standards. They are, of course, not wrong...
 
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Former Qatari footballer and now ambassador for the Word Cup, Khalid Salman, has stated that being gay is a mental disease, and women shouldn't be coming to the country at all.

I sincerely hope that anything that can go wrong during this WC will go wrong.

Or that there is one country man enough to stand up against this ridiculous backwards ******** and decide to stay home. Everyone involved should be ashamed.
 
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CONMEBOL, South America's confederation, has awarded itself my **** You of the week:


[Qatar is] A country eager to show its hospitality and warmth, magnificent sports venues and 32 prepared teams with their greatest potential. They ensure a tournament that will undoubtedly go down in history.

As few times in history, human society today needs the powerful message of sport in general and football, the most popular of them, in particular.

This message is powerful because it is universal, it goes far beyond political or ideological disputes, temporary disagreements and occasional confrontations. It is a message full of optimism, tolerance, inclusion, diversity, union.

The absolute cheek of these mother****ers. Homosexuality and misogyny are not ideological. It is pure, outright fascist persecution and bigotry. Why is football's universal message apparently "shut up and don't complain"? How can you have the temerity to talk about the positive message of optimism, tolerance, inclusion and diversity when the most prestigious sporting event on the planet is being held in a social backwater relic from the stone age?
 
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CONMEBOL, South America's confederation, has awarded itself my **** You of the week:




The absolute cheek of these mother****ers. Homosexuality and misogyny are not ideological. It is pure, outright fascist persecution and bigotry. Why is football's universal message apparently "shut up and don't complain"? How can you have the temerity to talk about the positive message of optimism, tolerance, inclusion and diversity when the most prestigious sporting event on the planet is being held in a social backwater relic from the stone age?
This is football's WeRaceAsOne.
 
Qatar World Cup ambassador Khalid Salman has said that homosexuality is "damage in the mind".
What an absolute disgrace.

Even Sepp Blatter now admits that handing Qatar the WC was "a mistake"

 
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FIFA are a major problem here (obviously)...

They are the ones who handed Russia and the Qatar the World Cup - at the same time no less - and FIFA are also the ones who would impose huge financial and sporting penalties on any nation that doesn't play along.

Perhaps the best protest would be for countries to withdraw from FIFA, but alas it is probably far too late to withdraw from Qatar 2022 without legal problems and potentially massive penalties.

-

Re Gary Neville - I bet he is absolutely furious about being called out on HIGNFY. Clearly the HIGNFY team are quite well known for putting guests and guest hosts especially under a bit of light-hearted pressure, but this was pretty strong even by their standards. They are, of course, not wrong...
If Sepp was still in charge, North Korea would be getting the next available World Cup.
 
I get that but we have had two pages of political stuff on here, and I know that the World Cup shouldn't even be there or even taking place at this time of year but it is and there is not a lot anyone can really do about it. It's happening.

Anyway a few players are picking up injuries and missing out on the tournament, mainly because it's taking place in the middle of the season and if you pick even a minor injury now you could miss the start of the tournament, Reece James and Ben Chilwell both of Chelsea and England are out, Sadio Mane is a doubt for Senegal after he limped off after just 20 minutes for Bayern last night and that was be a shame if he missed out as he has been one of the best players in the world for the past two years at least. Son looks like he will play after surgery to fix a fracture in his right eye.

Squads have been named this week too. Brazil, Denmark, Croatia and Switzerland have named their squads and Brazil's looks insane, Wales name theirs tonight and England tomorrow afternoon.
 
England squad was announced earlier, James Maddison and Callum Wilson both in, as are Kyle Walker, Kalvin Phillips, Conor Gallagher and Marcus Rashford. Ivan Toney, Fikayo Tomori and James Ward-Prowse among those missed out.
 
Good to see England manager Gareth Southgate addressing the controversies engulfing the tournament, and not shying away from them. It's a tough enough job to lead England to a World Cup, but the whole team are going to have their work cut out for them off the pitch under these circumstances. He's right, though, that supporters and players will want to focus on the football, but sadly it's neither possible or right to ignore the horrific human rights abuses that took place in the name of this tournament.
England boss Gareth Southgate on LGBT+ and human rights in Qatar: "We stand for inclusivity and that is important for all our supporters and we understand that. If it wasn't for the strength of that community, we wouldn't be Women's European Champions.

"With Iran, it's a political situation that I don't know enough about and I can't comment with enough authority to give you a view."

Will we be solely focussing on football?

"I think that's highly unlikely. We have always spoken about issues that we think should always be spoken about.

"Contrary to one or two observations we have spoken about the human rights challenges and been very clear on that. We would also like to focus primarily on the focus for every player, coach and everyone travelling.

"It's a carnival of football and you don't want that to be diminished by everything going on but we recognise that we will be in that situation."

England play Iran in 11 days time - the UK and many other countries participating in this tournament are currently directly supporting Ukrainians while Iran has sent kamikaze drones to Putin so that Russia can use them to indiscriminately murder civilians as we speak. Meanwhile, the Iranian authorities are currently murdering young Iranian women in their own country for showing their hair in public, including opening fire on mourners at the funerals of women who have been murdered previously.

The controversy surrounding the World Cup is going to ramp up in the coming days, and it will likely not be a pretty sight. With a bit of luck, it might be the straw that breaks the camel's back and forces FIFA to take a far more principled approach to who hosts the tournament and who gets to play in it.

 
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FIFA bans Denmark from wearing training shirts with the message "Human Rights For All", on grounds that political messaging isn't permitted.

 
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I saw that, it was really nice.

Sadio Mane in the Senegal squad despite his injury, I bet the Senegal team are in constant dialogue with Bayern!
 
vuvuzelas
That reminds me:

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