2024 NASCAR Discussion ThreadNASCAR 

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What a scummy way to win a race, why even have any driving standards at all if drivers are able to do that?

Not to mention he was 32nd in the driver points, now he’s able to compete for the championship in the playoffs because of this. Make it make sense.
 
I've had a bit of time to process that overtime finish at Richmond and this is what I think:

If this comes across as a total mess then I do apologise, but I'd like to start by saying that the whole format that NASCAR has adopted will only serve to kill it in the long run. At it's core, motor racing is a sport. If it's to maintain credibility as a sport, the rules must ensure that the skill and ability take precedence over the entertainment aspect. What Austin Dillon did was dumb and totally uncalled for, and the fact that NASCAR hasn't taken his win away tells you all you need to know about what they want. I understand that NASCAR is rougher than most other motorsports, and we do see aggressive moves that most other leagues would not allow, however there has to be a line. After witnessing this disaster of a finish, it's fair to day that the line has been crossed and a new precedent must be set going forward or things will devolve into a **** show. However it seems clear to me that NASCAR want the controversy and their unwillingness to police incidents, no matter how big, makes the whole championship look like a complete joke.

Another issue comes down to the whole overtime rule, which I honestly believe should be scrapped. I understand that NASCAR want each race to finish under green, but a good race can sometimes be ruined after several restarts - just look at Nashville. Yellow flag finished aren't great but I feel like they're a necessary evil because more often than not, it will allow the right driver to win. Austin Dillon wouldn't have had a reason to wreck Logano if the race had ended under yellow. However this brings me to the third issue: the "win and you're in" playoff format. This system is very odd in the world of motorsport, and it encourages stupid moves to occur because if you don't win, you can't fight for a championship. It's soo stupid. The driver with the most points after all the races should win the championship, because that is the fairest way to determine a champion. It may suck sometimes when there's a runaway driver, but it may also provide excitement if there's a three way fight. A big benefit of a "regular" points system is that drivers who may not have had the best start to a season can claw their way back up the order to win.

NASCAR need to re-write the rule book or they will see a decline in spectator numbers and viewership, particularly amongst the casual audience. These sorts of incidents and NASCAR's focus on "entertainment" is only going to hold the series back and prevent any kind of expansion plans. On a world stage, reform is desperately needed and the rednecks need to understand that sportsmanship MUST be prioritised above showmanship.
 
I've had a bit of time to process that overtime finish at Richmond and this is what I think:

If this comes across as a total mess then I do apologise, but I'd like to start by saying that the whole format that NASCAR has adopted will only serve to kill it in the long run. At it's core, motor racing is a sport. If it's to maintain credibility as a sport, the rules must ensure that the skill and ability take precedence over the entertainment aspect. What Austin Dillon did was dumb and totally uncalled for, and the fact that NASCAR hasn't taken his win away tells you all you need to know about what they want. I understand that NASCAR is rougher than most other motorsports, and we do see aggressive moves that most other leagues would not allow, however there has to be a line. After witnessing this disaster of a finish, it's fair to day that the line has been crossed and a new precedent must be set going forward or things will devolve into a **** show. However it seems clear to me that NASCAR want the controversy and their unwillingness to police incidents, no matter how big, makes the whole championship look like a complete joke.
You are completely right, it used to be a sport. It's been the "WWE of racing" for quite a while now. NASCAR won't take the win away for one (I admit terrible) reason. The Frances have always said that they don't ever want the fans who came, or watched, the race to find out that the results changed afterwards. There used to be a competitive respect among them, but that left a while ago.
However this brings me to the third issue: the "win and you're in" playoff format. This system is very odd in the world of motorsport, and it encourages stupid moves to occur because if you don't win, you can't fight for a championship. It's soo stupid. The driver with the most points after all the races should win the championship, because that is the fairest way to determine a champion. It may suck sometimes when there's a runaway driver, but it may also provide excitement if there's a three way fight. A big benefit of a "regular" points system is that drivers who may not have had the best start to a season can claw their way back up the order to win.
The playoff system was what turned me off of NASCAR when it was introduced. It was a knee-jerk reaction to Matt Kenseth's championship run in 2003 when he won 1 race that year. They want to be like our stick-and-ball sports so bad here. The original goal of the playoff system was to produce what they called "Game 7 moments". The thing with that mentality though, is that NASCAR isn't happy and starts tweaking the system until it does. Also, to bastardize a Pixar movie quote, if every year has a "Game 7" moment, then none of them had "Game 7" moments. They want to encourage wins with this current system, which I understand, but it's not right, as you point out. I preferred the first iteration of it. Wins still mattered, but you also had to be in the Top 10 or 12 in points. That first year produced an amazing fight to get in the Chase and there have been some great years for the Chase format since. The problem I have with it is that NASCAR seems to change it every year or so. I certainly don't see the MLB or NFL meddling with their playoffs as much, or at all.
NASCAR need to re-write the rule book or they will see a decline in spectator numbers and viewership, particularly amongst the casual audience. These sorts of incidents and NASCAR's focus on "entertainment" is only going to hold the series back and prevent any kind of expansion plans. On a world stage, reform is desperately needed and the rednecks need to understand that sportsmanship MUST be prioritised above showmanship.
There has already been a pretty steady decline for the last decade or so among the casual and even enthusiastic fanbase. I grew up watching every race on every Sunday for years, up until ~2008. NASCAR wasn't the spectacle that it was in the early 2000s, at least in my house. The craziest thing about the focus on "entertainment" was never needed. It came naturally when there was respect between the drivers. You aren't wrong, but the NASCAR constituency has been much more than "rednecks" for more that 3 decades now, so stop with that outdated stereotype. I do agree with your argument though. It all comes down to the reality that NASCAR is scared to make officiating calls.
 
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Dillon keeps the win Sunday but the win is encumbered and will not count for the playoffs. The 3 team has also been docked 25 driver and owner points and Dillon's spotter has been suspended 3 races. In addition, Joey Logano has been fined 50k for violating NASCAR code of conduct on pit road.
 
Dillon keeps the win Sunday but the win is encumbered and will not count for the playoffs. The 3 team has also been docked 25 driver and owner points and Dillon's spotter has been suspended 3 races. In addition, Joey Logano has been fined 50k for violating NASCAR code of conduct on pit road.
Which puts Dillon (and the #3) 31st at 319 points, and out of the playoffs barring a second win in the next 3 races (they had been 27th and in the playoffs). Chris Buescher and the #17 are back in the provisional playoffs (by tiebreaker) over Ross Chastain and the #1.

The reason why it wasn't a full DQ was the winner would have been Denny Hamlin, or if NASCAR deemed Hamlin, as Victim #2, unworthy of the win, Tyler Reddick.
 
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As a casual viewer, is that about as close as NASCAR can get to disqualifying Dillon without actually taking the win away?

I think it's fairly safe to say Logano or Hamlin would've ensured he wasn't getting through to the round of 8 anyway.
 
Roo
As a casual viewer, is that about as close as NASCAR can get to disqualifying Dillon without actually taking the win away?

I think it's fairly safe to say Logano or Hamlin would've ensured he wasn't getting through to the round of 8 anyway.
They could have taken another 25 points as Dillon originally got 51 from the race, and fined him and/or the team the difference in purse money between 1st (with contingency awards) and 37th (with no contingency awards, but with the Charter cut), but that's pretty much it.

The reason why it's not 26 points is when NASCAR flat-out disqualified Denny Hamlin and Kyle Busch at the 2022 Pocono race, Hamin and Busch got 2 and 1 points for finishing 35th and 36th (respectively).
 
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Roo
As a casual viewer, is that about as close as NASCAR can get to disqualifying Dillon without actually taking the win away?

I think it's fairly safe to say Logano or Hamlin would've ensured he wasn't getting through to the round of 8 anyway.
Dillon himself probably would have assured he wasn't getting through to the round of 8. That was his first top 5 finish in 51 races.
 
Dillon himself probably would have assured he wasn't getting through to the round of 8. That was his first top 5 finish in 51 races.
Dillon wouldn't have made it to the Round of 12, much less the Round of 8. After all, Talladega is in the Round of 12.
 
I think that NASCAR should have also set him out of the next 3 races to make sure he wouldn't make the cut.
 
The #16 will have a full-time driver next year - AJ Allmendinger's back. Meanwhile, the Cup cars will now have the option of having an on-board rear lift kit to help get cars with flat rear tires get back to pit road (activated by the safety crew with an air compressor and deactivated by the pit crew by pulling a valve installed on the driver's side A-pillar), and RCR is appealing the penalties.
 
Meanwhile, the Cup cars will now have the option of having an on-board rear lift kit to help get cars with flat rear tires get back to pit road (activated by the safety crew with an air compressor and deactivated by the pit crew by pulling a valve installed on the driver's side A-pillar)
Oh the cheating possibilities!
 
Oh the cheating possibilities!
Considering raising the rear end with what I'm guessing is just airbags would be immediately noticeable and dramatically change the car's handling, and the system likely isn't designed to be durable enough for extended use at racing speeds, I can't really see how that would be any more effective than shaving down surfaces or subtly messing with air ducts. Which teams have already been doing and getting caught for, so no doubt a new system like that would be scrutinized pretty heavily.

Not saying they won't try, but I highly doubt it's going to be a Smokey Yunick Special.
 
RCR was partially successful in their appeal of the penalties coming out of Richmond - the spotter's suspension was reduced to 1 race from 3 (essentially "time served"). They are appealing the rest of the penalties (the win doesn't count for the playoffs/25 owners' points/25 drivers' points) to the Final Appeal Officer.

Meanwhile, in the wake of Corey LaJoie's flip at Michigan, Cup cars will have a right-rear window air deflector (essentially matching the one on the left side) starting this weekend.
 
RCR was partially successful in their appeal of the penalties coming out of Richmond - the spotter's suspension was reduced to 1 race from 3 (essentially "time served"). They are appealing the rest of the penalties (the win doesn't count for the playoffs/25 owners' points/25 drivers' points) to the Final Appeal Officer.

Meanwhile, in the wake of Corey LaJoie's flip at Michigan, Cup cars will have a right-rear window air deflector (essentially matching the one on the left side) starting this weekend.
Ah, so telling your driver to wreck someone is seen as a 1 race penalty now?
 
Ah, so telling your driver to wreck someone is seen as a 1 race penalty now?
At least for that 3-person appeals board. It still makes the resulting win not count for the playoffs though.
 
Speaking of penalties, Denny Hamlin and the #11 got hit with a L2 penalty for illegally rebuilding the engine that won the spring Bristol race before NASCAR could inspect it (the least that could have happened in each applied category; there were no suspensions of team members):
  • Lost 75 regular owners'/drivers' points (knocks Hamlin from 3rd to 6th and the #11 from 4th to 7th)
  • Lost 10 playoff owners'/drivers' points (down to 11 and 6th)
  • Crew chief Chris Gabehart is $100,000 poorer
  • The win is encumbered (doesn't count for anything; knocks Hamlin/#11 out of a 3-way tie for 2nd in wins and leaves 2 that count)
 
And it wasn't the team that made the mistake, but TRD. It must suck to get penalized for something like that when it wasn't your team's doing.
 
And it wasn't the team that made the mistake, but TRD. It must suck to get penalized for something like that when it wasn't your team's doing.
TRD self reported it too. Weren't trying to hide anything. It's a bit like a couple years back when Hendrick got fined for putting a sealed engine in the wrong car. Huge administrative mistake.
 
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TRD self reported it too. Weren't trying to hide anything. It's a bit like a couple years back when Hendrick got fined for putting a sealed engine in the wrong car. Huge administrative mistake.
I can't even imagine what would have happened had they not done so.
 
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Bowman came so close to having McDowells car come through his window net.

That accident could've been so much worse, thought McDowell was heading to the catch fence.

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Shame a much worse accident did happen, ive never seen an upside car hit the wall so hard before. Sort of hit on the underside of the front end.
 
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Awesome finish, just really happy it didn't end with a big wreck like it feels all the recent plate races have.

Great call by Diffey with Jeff in the box too.
 
I called the win to my friends 20 minutes ago. Burton had a strong car and the Fords looked like they had the best chance.
 
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