24hrs. @ the 'Ring

  • Thread starter Thread starter Rat Bastid
  • 38 comments
  • 2,505 views
Rat Bastid

Rat Bastid

Messages
606
United States
New York
Messages
Mind_R1ot
After finally finishing the FGT series, I decided I wanted another FGT car. I found out here that I can win another color besides the MB grey & black, so I went about finding the right car. The first time through, I used the Chaparral 2D '67 model that won at the 'Ring that same year. I got the tranny sorted out, but I couldn't get the suspension right & I didn't know the track that well, so I B-Spec'd the whole thing. Now things are different, so I want do do some of the driving. I bought the BMW Touring Sedan, changed the oil, got RSH tires & did some practice laps last night. (GF's visiting family) My best time was 7:38, I think, so I got the stage 3 NA & set the tranny auto-set to 11 & tried the race. (BTW; the stock sus. settings were very good, I just took 2 clicks off the front springs & -2 toe in front & I re-set the E-traction controls & rear-end settings. Brakes on 12/10) I have a 127 point A-Spec rating & off I go.By the time I get 1/2 way around, I'm in 4th. & the Falken GTR is steadily pulling away from me. Time to re-set the game & start over. I get the stage 4 turbo & set the tranny to 12 & try again. Now I'm starting with a 9 point A-Spec rating & I'm leading in no time at all. After 4 laps, I pit for tires & put on the B-Spec @ 3, Overtake because the Falken overcame his 34 second deficit to pass me. The "timing board" shows my best lap @ 7:14 & the Falken @ 7:19, so I think I'm in pretty good shape, and I make a pit stop myself. By the time I get back, the Opel Calibra is about to pass me (Bob) & the Falken is a full minute ahead of me! I but the speed on 5 & hope for the best. I lose the Opel & the Nissan pits, so I re-take the lead. With the setting on 5, I'll be lucky to get more than four laps on the tires & the Falken's gaining on me. Sure enough, he passes me right before the Karousel & keeps going. By the time I get to the straightaway at the end of lap 7, my tires are yellow & the Nissan is 3.5 minutes ahead. I pause & think things over. Bob, even with almost 7,800 points can't overcome the lack of torque & downforce to stay ahead of the Falken. I would have to drive the whole thing........... Can't do it, find another car. Maybe one of the DTM Audi's.
 
Namely the TT-R.

See my sig; there's a tune for it, shouldn't be too bad on R1s.

Nice little writeup, though.
 
Rotary Junkie
Namely the TT-R.

See my sig; there's a tune for it, shouldn't be too bad on R1s.

Nice little writeup, though.
Click to expand...

Thanks bud. I appreciate the suggestion & the compliment. The TT sticks like friggin' glue. I aced the JGTC & Dream Car series with it. (W/different HP settings.) I chose the BMW 'cuz I don't want to lose, but I don't want a walk, either. The #4 turbo had the HP just about matched with the GTR, (around 500) but only half as much TQ. I'll try the tranny on 10, I haven't seen the redline yet. That could shorten it up enough to make the difference. I spent $4-500K on the car, I want to get SOME use out of it. Anyway, I'll probably wind up with the TT & your setup. Next write-up, I'll have a map on another tab so I can describe things better.
 
Yeah, the TT-R might actually be somewhat overkill. Maybe.

The BMW just doesn't have the downforce, though.
 
The BMW 120i touring car is a good choice for the 24 hours of Nurburgring but you need to exit and re-enter the event until you get a lineup with the Opel Calibra touring car as the fastest competitor and then you can beat it. Unfortunately, you probably won't be able to beat it using B-spec. I don't think Bob is fast enough. But it's a fun race to do in A-spec mode! :D
 
AlfaAlfa
The BMW 120i touring car is a good choice for the 24 hours of Nurburgring but you need to exit and re-enter the event until you get a lineup with the Opel Calibra touring car as the fastest competitor and then you can beat it. Unfortunately, you probably won't be able to beat it using B-spec. I don't think Bob is fast enough. But it's a fun race to do in A-spec mode! :D
Click to expand...

Well, it's the 320i. In 5-6 test sessions, I have yet to see a race without the Falken GT-R. Bob can handle the Opel. I'm not going to spend a week or a day or two in A-Spec either.

So, even after bringing the tranny down to 9 & the speed on 5, the Falken would still pass me, it just took a bit longer for him to do it. My best time was 7'12.020, Bob's was much longer.... On to the TT-R & RJ's set-up. Wow! So this is what torque feels like! The BMW had almost 295ftlbs. but this baby has almost 400! the setup is... pillow soft, but holds well & is very forgiving. RJ, this is your regular set-up? My usual is much stiffer. Anyway, I'm now... 10:44'?? into it, Bob is doing his thing in triple time. His best @3; 7'42.259. @5; 7'21.813. He'll go six laps on gas & if I leave him on 3, the Falken slowly catches up. (best lap; 7'19.269) Now I leave him on 4 for five laps, it's a good compromise. My best is; 6'53.346 and I can stay out for four laps on good tires, five if I feel like torturing myself. Bob takes longer per lap & wears out his fronts quicker, which is the opposite of his usual. I guess he relies on the fronts on this car too much & the -1 toe doesn't help. My lefts wear out quicker, PROBABLY because there are mostly left turns. Also, I slide & rotate in a way that Bob can't. He drives on red-hot tires much better than I do, though. Another thing is that as bad as the AI cars at passing, they're marvels compared to Bob! It's like he needs the written invite & waits for confirmation on the RSVP!! But every so often, he'll show me that he really does have a 77 in "Battle Skills" and pull off a SWEET pass on the INside... Not much else for the moment. I'll be back with the wrap-up & the color of my new FGT!!
 
This seems like a good way to use B-spec, as a true co-driver. Sounds like you're having a good race. Good luck with the rest and hope you get a good color of FGT :)
 
Boy, that TT-R is a great car, but it sounds like a damned Hoover! Had to pause it & take a break. So, It's lap102/103, (I just pitted) 12:35'16.950. The Falken is about to go through Flugplatz, so he'll be two laps down before long. Thanks for the comments, AlfaAlfa. I'm learning more & more about this track & I get to take a break every hour or 90 mins. to get some coffee or let some out! Once I pass the Falken again, I'll be able to shower & go out for a couple hours without worrying, well, I hope so. Bob may have gotten quicker on 3, and he'll stay on the track for all six laps that the fuel lasts. I don't think I'll trust him @4 with tires that are even hotter! My new best time is; 6'53.060. My frame is definitely bent, think it happened on lap 58. (Forgot to mention it before) The car just started getting weird on me, had to adjust my lines & markers. Also, If I'm not careful, I'll catch these "dis-harmonious" bumps right before Aremberg when I'm hard on the brakes & hit the sand. I'm getting better at it, though. Another thing is that I get through the Karussell faster on the outside than the inside. Probably because I bounce off the rail once or twice...
As far as the color of my new ride, like I said, I have the M-B/McLaren grey & black. I'd like any color(s) except white, (grudge against ExxonMobil) and white w/ either green or lavender. Hmm, Ferrari red? The blue, the orange is nice, white/blue, black/yellow.... More later.
 
Amazing, I get out of the shower expecting to see the GT-R with one of his laps back, but Bob held his own! I left him about 45 sec's. ahead after the pit & Bob had maybe 90 sec's. on him when I got back. I set the speed on 4. I wouldn't even try to drive on the tires that he was on for that 6th. lap! I took over after he pitted & thought the frame had twisted even more, but I got into it & the next lap (126) I pulled off a 6'52.322!!!!! Heading out, (I'm late now) back later.
 
The FALKEN*GT-R isn't really a threat. It only does just under 7:20 for a good lap, pitting every 5 laps. Bob probably does slightly better than that (maybe even 7:16 good laps?), unless your settings really confuse him, and will likely do 5 or even 6 laps per stint. (on R1s--faster and fewer laps on higher-numbered R's)

You are correct to not persist on bad tires. It doesn't take much loss of time on a single lap to outweigh the time you save in pitstops. (You break even if you lose about 5 or 6 seconds I think; regularly more than that, and you're better to make the extra pitstop (5 laps instead of 6).
 
With the setting on 4, I think Bob is capable of a 7'22.???, (He must have gained experience, his best on 5 was a high 7'21.) The Falken's best so far is 7'19.269, but like you said, he pits every five laps. Bob goes for six. Nothing much going on besides, I went out, so Bob's been on normal time for a while. I'm almost at eighteen hours... Bob just did a 7'22.771. I'll write after it's done, or if something major happens.
 
At many car/track combinations you'll get worse B-spec results from a whole lap on 5 than a whole lap on 4. Setting 5 allows the driver to "push" potentially too hard, and may waste time recovering from slightly over-aggressive cornering, or even regular wipe-outs, especially on the orange-tire lap (though the orange-tire factor won't affect best-time results). Setting 5 is, for many car/track combinations, best reserved for temporary use to help make a difficult pass. Or you can actually reduce lap times by switching between 3 and 5 dynamically; switch to 5 just after the apex of a corner going onto a long straight. Reduce to 3, or occasionally 2, for known tricky bits. (E.g. pit area of Nürburgring). 4 can often be used for most of most tracks.

The 5 second penalty per unattended B-spec pitstop is actually a large factor, too; it can make the difference between B-spec gaining a little and losing a little. E.g. unattended, my B-spec Abt Audi couldn't quite keep up with the AI Abt Audi. :(

And, actually, when I used a black Toyota GT-ONE, completely unaltered, to win a B-spec only Nürburgring 24 race (to check how may laps the Chaparral 2D does), I ran it on "2" after it managed to miss a pitstop on "3", and continue around for a lap on super-red tires (causing itself about a 45-second penalty). And that's with a maxed (10000/100/100/100) B-spec driver.
 
SportWagon, it sounds like you need to set up your cars better. If the Toy. had been properly loosened up, it should have pitted with blazing-hot tires @4, just like my TT-R. If your driver can't keep your TT-R competitive with all his experience points, set the car up right. I would suggest Rotary Junkie's, use the link on his sig. In fact my TT can run on 5 around the whole track until the tires start going orange, when common sense tells me to take it down a notch. He'll stay on course the whole time. How is your tranny set up? Do you redline at the end of Dottinger Hoe or Antoniusbuche? If not, or not close to it to save some for drafting, then you're set too tall. Too much top end, not enough acceleration.
Anyway, I was watching the cars in normal time & I thought of a few things; Looking at the Audi TT-R, these new DTM cars HAVE to be the most advanced sedan-based racers in the world. I've never seen so much aero-stuff like this! What's that UNDER the passenger compartment?! Like the A-4 with all those little scoops on the quarter panels?!
Funny how the 2.5L 4 MB & the 4.0L Opel 8 sound EXACTLY alike.
I wish the flame-thrower Alfa was in this race, I get a kick out of watching it.
Does anybody know what class/league the Falken GT-R races in? What's with the fenders?

Bob just pitted with about twelve minutes to go, I'll throw in some gas & some medium tires. See what kind of lap time I get now...
 
Had to run out for a minute..
It's BLUE!! A menacing shade of Blue & a nice black stripe along the side! I didn't realize I paused the game AFTER I had only changed from B to A-Spec. I didn't get to but the mediums on. I hope GT5 gives a chance to get that option screen back. So I run one lap & come in just to change the tires, I wish I had two laps to get used to them, I was turning into everything! the response was so much quicker. Ahh, next time. I'd like to thank Rotary Junkie for setting up my car, he stayed up day & night getting things perfect. Wanna thank Red Bull, my main sponsor. Sony, for sponsoring the car, also & for making the PS2 & the whole GT series.... Castrol oil, Dunlop.....
Next time, I'd like to try the 2D again, there HAS to be a set up I can live with.
 
I didn't tune the GT-ONE at all. It wasn't important; I just wanted to see how many laps the AI Chaparral would do (and along the way get another FGT car).

Tuning for human drivers doesn't necessarily make B-spec faster. I was perplexed when I drove an A-spec/B-spec race before the full A-spec one, using the TT-R, intending to start it in A-spec and B-spec to the finish, and B-spec couldn't quite keep up. (The 5 second pitstop penalty doesn't help). But I was clearly faster than the AI version of the car, so that was sufficient. Although I needed to A-spec more of that preparation race than I had intended to.
 
I'll tell you what, use RJ's setup, set the tranny to 11. (Mine was on 12 & I still had revs to spare, so you will be quicker.) Do a little yourself & let Bob do the rest on 4 & you should have the race.
 
But you said on B-spec your Abt Audi TT-R was only doing 7:21 best laps. That's not good enough to beat the AI Abt Audi TT-R, (unless perhaps the B-spec driver does exceptionally good in- and out-laps). For some reason the AI Abt Audi TT-R is a good couple of seconds faster than all other AI (except the Chaparral), and easy on tires (6 lap stints) too. You need about 7:16 best laps to beat it. It racks up 195 laps when its done 24 hours. Compared to 193 for the best of the rest.

How many laps did you complete, BTW?

When I mix A and B-spec now, I like to finish on B-spec to get all the finishing stats...

WRT to fastest laps, from a race I did...

Fastest laps in the first five laps (replay)
2nd. 8a Abt Audi TT-R Touring Car '02 7:18.326
3rd. 4f Nissan FALKEN*GT-R Race Car '01 7:19.919
4th. 14b BMW M3 GTR Race Car '01 7:21.130
5th. 9a Alfa Romeo 155 2.5 V6 Ti '93 7:22.464
6th. 12a Audi A4 Touring Car '02 7:22.739

But experience from B-spec races suggests all cars will better those times later in the race.
 
I don't remember how many laps I ran. Either upgrade the turbo & run it on 3 or use a different car. Why do you keep shooting down my answers to your inane questions? For someone who knows so much, you seem to have a really hard time winning this race. I'm 2-2.
 
I've won the Nürburgring 24 15 times. I also have two recorded retirements, at least one of which was simply accidentally starting the race while picking my lineup. Once I beat the AI AMG (and Opel) with a stock AMG (for license test practice). In that case, B-spec was faster than both me and the AI AMG. My favourite hackney for B-spec'ing is a stock-power (and now very worn-out) Motul Pitwork Z '04, which doesn't look like it's cheating, but really is. (That will beat the AI Abt Audi, but not the Chaparral in B-spec--well it would clobber the Chaparral if you give it extra power).

I'm saying that it would be difficult, perhaps impossible, to B-spec an entire race using a stock Abt Audi TT-R to beat a field which includes an AI Abt Audi TT-R. I'll see what notes I made of the B-spec performance in such a situation (once I did combination B+A-spec to allow Abt to beat Abt; then, as a holiday activity, I A-spec'd an entire Nürburgring 24, beating an Abt with an Abt).

Based on your lap times with the Abt Audi, you might be able to beat the AI Chaparral with it; it does a few laps just under 7:00, and puts in 201 laps. My B-spec Chaparral (no extra power except maybe oil) can do substantially better fastest laps, but I can't remember whether I got it to adopt a reasonable pit strategy. If you knew you'd managed 202 laps or more, then you could go and try to beat the Chaparral with the same Abt Audi (or a fresh copy of it).

Was the Abt Audi brand-new before the race? What did its odometer say when you finished?
 
So Where Am I Actually Coming From?

The best AI cars competing in the Nürburgring 24 are clearly the Chaparral 2D, and a distant second, the Abt Audi TT-R.

There is a class of [size=+1]GT4[/size] player who, given the time and inclination to A-spec the whole thing, could beat the Chaparral with any number of cars, likely anything from about the AMG Mercedes 190E 2.5 - I6 Evo II Touring Car '92 (or thereabouts) up. (And then there's that BMW 320i Touring Car which doesn't want to go very fast at all when I drive it--I think I have trouble breaking 8 minutes, IIRC--but which excellent players tout as the best A-spec point getter for the race).

I, on the other hand, am on the lower scale of [size=+1]GT4[/size] players--not always able to keep pace with a given AI car using the same car. While tuning mediocrity may add to this, my driving skills are limited by inate limits to my reactions. Stock car race comparisons will usually suggest that. (As will license test results).

So, for someone doing this race, especially using the apparent 2nd-best AI competitor as their car, I am curious as to whether they manage to arrange to set a fast enough time (201 laps or better) to beat the Chaparral. Of course, most other players give up even more time than I do when they hand over to B-spec.

As an added complication, I'm not sure how many people do really accurate calculations to determine whether an extra lap on bad tires is worth it or not. I feel I have slightly more training-developed intuition relevant to that part of the game than do a lot of people. (Though the psychological aspect often dominates; being required to make up enough time to take extra pitstops creates stress, and so, if you've enough of a margin anyway, sometimes you're better to stretch your shifts so as to keep closer to the longest AI schedule; in my case, I can sometimes fall completely to pieces if I think I'm not keeping to the schedule, thereby blowing it completely).
 
SportWagon
So Where Am I Actually Coming From?

The best AI cars competing in the Nürburgring 24 are clearly the Chaparral 2D, and a distant second, the Abt Audi TT-R.

There is a class of [size=+1]GT4[/size] player who, given the time and inclination to A-spec the whole thing, could beat the Chaparral with any number of cars, likely anything from about the AMG Mercedes 190E 2.5 - I6 Evo II Touring Car '92 (or thereabouts) up. (And then there's that BMW 320i Touring Car which doesn't want to go very fast at all when I drive it--I think I have trouble breaking 8 minutes, IIRC--but which excellent players tout as the best A-spec point getter for the race).

I, on the other hand, am on the lower scale of [size=+1]GT4[/size] players--not always able to keep pace with a given AI car using the same car. While tuning mediocrity may add to this, my driving skills are limited by inate limits to my reactions. Stock car race comparisons will usually suggest that. (As will license test results).

So, for someone doing this race, especially using the apparent 2nd-best AI competitor as their car, I am curious as to whether they manage to arrange to set a fast enough time (201 laps or better) to beat the Chaparral. Of course, most other players give up even more time than I do when they hand over to B-spec.

As an added complication, I'm not sure how many people do really accurate calculations to determine whether an extra lap on bad tires is worth it or not. I feel I have slightly more training-developed intuition relevant to that part of the game than do a lot of people. (Though the psychological aspect often dominates; being required to make up enough time to take extra pitstops creates stress, and so, if you've enough of a margin anyway, sometimes you're better to stretch your shifts so as to keep closer to the longest AI schedule; in my case, I can sometimes fall completely to pieces if I think I'm not keeping to the schedule, thereby blowing it completely).
Click to expand...

Having been better at the Ring to start with, I should easily be able to do 204-209 laps in the Benz Evo...

Shameless Self Promovation...
 
Yeah. Wow. The reason the [size=+1]GT[/size] series is so popular is that it's so easy. Seriously. I think many racing games aim at talented players like you, and leave everyone else frusterated. Whereas [size=+1]GT[/size] provides a definite learning curve, but allows mediocre players to compare their results to their previous results and thereby feel good about themselves. Until they look around for comparison.
 
Rat Bastid

It's BLUE!! A menacing shade of Blue & a nice black stripe along the side!
Click to expand...

You got the blue one! :drool: Lucky son of a *! I still need the blue one and the orange one, then my FGT collection will be complete. I'm planning on trying this race in A-spec again pretty soon with the CWest Silvia (maybe).

Anyway - nice job! Too bad the game won't give you partial A-spec points since you did run alot of the race yourself :)
 
AlfaAlfa
You got the blue one! :drool: Lucky son of a *! I still need the blue one and the orange one, then my FGT collection will be complete. I'm planning on trying this race in A-spec again pretty soon with the CWest Silvia (maybe).

Anyway - nice job! Too bad the game won't give you partial A-spec points since you did run alot of the race yourself :)
Click to expand...

Don't complain buddy, I've only got two now!

The C-West sounds like a good idea, You'd probably have to do it all yourself to win though.

Thanks for the compliment, I'n not really concerned with points, though. I only would have gotten 6 or 9 & my game only gives them to me when it's in the mood. Maybe B-Spec, too. All the other figures accumulate, (miles driven, money, etc. But the points...) Anyway. I kinda have the fever now, so I went about picking another car do do the 24 with. (While RJ works on the Chappy setup.) I went poking around the forums & saw mention of the 787B. This reminds me that I beat that car in the Tuskuba wet challenge with the..... Suzuki GSX/R4!! SO. I got to my garage & grab the red one (275HP) restore the stock sus. & buy some R1's. Hit the practice session & the car is EVERYWHERE! What the hell? It has stage 3 weight reduction. Go to the Suzuki race, two tries & + 6K later, I win a yellow one, Cool! (1st. was white, already have it.) Mod everything except the sus & weight. (About a 100 kilo. difference.) Try again... MUCH better! Best time was 7'03... On to the race. Oops, there's the Chappy. Two things happened; 1. I never got closer to him than we were at the starting line. 2. This car shows the clearest example of the difference between driving with "pre-set" tire traction & temperature-dependent traction! This puppy LOVES to wag his tail!!! I'm almost constantly making corrective adjustments. (BTW; I have the wings set at 30F/27R) The way I get through some curves doesn't seem physically possible!! Example- On a left turn, my LF & RR tires are on the curbing, the RF is in the dirt, LR's on the track. I'm counter-steering & "crabbing" sort of sideways. You have to see it.... So, I'm in second & make it through two laps before I decide to let Bob have a go at it. He goes much more steadily, but much slower too, as the 2D gets further & further away. Re-set & try again. OK, now the Falken is the one to beat. It was 1 AM by this time, so I let Bob start off with the intent of going to bed soon & letting him carry on... No such luck. On 5, he passes the field quickly enough & keeps a good lead up to his pit on lap 5. I had set the speed to 4 on lap 4. I'm feeling pretty good about things & set it to 3 & doze off on the couch. I wake up about an hour later to see I'm in second & the Falken is about 2 min's. ahead. Crap, I put it on 4 again & 3x & fall out again. Some time later, I'm still second.... Shut it off & hit the bed.
Right now, I'm 64 laps & almost 8 hours in & have a 3'22... lead. Details later, stay tuned.
 
I actually wound up using R2's on the 'zuki, but I'd say R1's are usually the way to go for this kind of race. With the light weight & deceptively quick acceleration, stock HP should be fine. Thanks for sticking with me.
 

Latest Posts

Back