$30k, 30+mpg, luxury - possible?

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Quattro20v
01.acura.rsx.int.500.jpg


This. Is. Not. Luxury.
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What's wrong with it? It's a sporty luxury that I actually much prefer to driving a couch.
 
Famine
Which is more important to you? The luxury interior you can enjoy being in or the fuel economy so you can save money? If it's the latter, you're just buying white goods.
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Exactly. When you're looking at fuel economy, you've really got to knock the "luxury" requirements off, or substantially lower your standard. The even middle ground, found in most Hondas, Fords and Volkswagens, at least in my mind, is perfectly "acceptable" when looking for a pretty decent ride at a fair price.

"Luxury," unfortunately, is subjective. While I may find the VW Passat to be a nice place to hang around, it is by no means a Rolls Drophead. But nevertheless, compared to an Aveo, the VW certainly is a luxurious place to be.
 
YSSMAN
But nevertheless, compared to an Aveo, the any VW certainly is a luxurious place to be.
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Minor correction, just to make it 100% clear.
 
Famine
Yeah, because the majority is always right.
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I've noticed that people who have a very odd, unsupported, extreme minority viewpoint like to say this in order to bolster their argument.

YSSMAN
Exactly. When you're looking at fuel economy, you've really got to knock the "luxury" requirements off, or substantially lower your standard. The even middle ground, found in most Hondas, Fords and Volkswagens, at least in my mind, is perfectly "acceptable" when looking for a pretty decent ride at a fair price.
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What if I have a nice sports car in the garage and want something luxurious that can take me to and from work and nothing else? You have no idea how many people fit this category.

Famine and YSSMAN - think outside the box!
 
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M5Power
I've noticed that people who have a very odd, unsupported, extreme minority viewpoint like to say this in order to bolster their argument. It's not actually an argument, unfortunately.
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You're right. Referring to the number of people who support you lends nothing at all to facts at hand.

M5Power
What if I have a nice sports car in the garage and want something luxurious that can take me to and from work and nothing else?
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Wait, you mean like... some kind of... tool?

Surely not?
 
Oooh, get a Cobalt and put a La-Z-Boy in it!
 
Danoff
What's wrong with it? It's a sporty luxury that I actually much prefer to driving a couch.
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Yes, we all have our opinions and likes. I just can't see any luxury in RSX/Integra and to quote the OP:

M5Power
(luxury as in a sunroof, nav system, lots of interior stuff, a gorgeous interior -- ie better than a Prius or a Camry Hybrid)
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:)
 
Quattro20v
Yes, we all have our opinions and likes. I just can't see any luxury in RSX/Integra and to quote the OP:

M5
(luxury as in a sunroof, nav system, lots of interior stuff, a gorgeous interior -- ie better than a Prius or a Camry Hybrid)
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:)
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- Sunroof? Check
- Nav System? Irrelevant. Buy a good one and put it in. But I'm pretty sure you can get one with nav actually.
- Lots of interior stuff? Like what? Auto temp control? Power mirrors? Cruise? Wheel adjustment? CD changer? Premium sound? Leather inserts? Leather seats with lateral support? Leather steering? Auto sunroof control? Check. Gorgeous interior? Check.

I'm not trying to be an ass here, I'm trying to figure out what M5's criteria for "luxury" is, because the RSX hits all of the important points for me.

It doesn't have heated power adjustable seats with memory. But I honestly can't see why people care about that. The seats aren't super cushiony, they're supportive for handling lateral g's - which I find much more luxurious than sliding off of a couch cushion in a turn.

One thing I could really use on the RSX is interior tire pressure indicators. But that's about it. Even the built-in bluetooth is a little silly, though I'll admit that it does lack that.
 
Danoff
I'm not trying to be an ass here...
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👍 Me neither! And very good point in that "interior stuff" and "like what?". All the "important" stuff for me in there especially that I'm more into driving than enjoying all the gadgets. It's just something more than the "stuff" and gadgets what makes a car luxury to me. It's the overall feeling, quality of materials, noise in the cabin etc... And it also seems that I'm drunk enough since it's taking me too long to write bad English and play good poker at the same time...
 
FoolKiller
YSSMAN
compared to an Aveo, the any VW certainly is a luxurious place to be.
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Minor correction, just to make it 100% clear.
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And more fuel efficient. And less likely to break down. And more likely to be worth more than a six-pack of beers come resale time. And...
 
Famine
You're right. Referring to the number of people who support you lends nothing at all to facts at hand.



Wait, you mean like... some kind of... tool?

Surely not?
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:rolleyes:

It's funny how you have intelligent discussions with people unless faced with intelligent responses. If you think someone with an expensive car is a tool, then I feel very sorry for you. Jealousy won't do much for you (clearly).

Danoff
How about inside the box?

Volvo S40 - 31 mpg
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:D

Rated @ 28mpg highway though...
 
M5Power
:rolleyes:

It's funny how you have intelligent discussions with people unless faced with intelligent responses. If you think someone with an expensive car is a tool, then I feel very sorry for you. Jealousy won't do much for you (clearly).
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The car is the tool. Like I said in the first place. A tool to make a chore easier.

Famine
Diesel cars aren't fun - they're a tool for a chore and driving should never be a chore.

One look at a rush hour tells you what happens when driving becomes a chore...
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M5Power
What if I have a nice sports car in the garage and want something luxurious that can take me to and from work and nothing else?
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Famine
Wait, you mean like... some kind of... tool?
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You've just spent 70 posts and 2 days arguing against my notion that someone would use a diesel just to go to work and back, then served up someone buying a diesel just to go to work and back as an example of your point.


If you'd just learn to read things - you know, like when I gave you a £10k (diesel) car as an example and you told me it was £21k, or when you tried to make the same point ExigeEvan made 3 hours earlier and I'd already covered, or when you just spent this thread arguing against the notion that people by diesels as tools to use that exact function as an example - your threads would be much shorter and less combative...
 
Famine
You're being a bit of a prat.

ALL cars are tools; designed to take people/ cargo places. The degree of fun/ sportyness does not begin or end with a diesel engine. There are cars affixed with the "sport" designation that would be rolled on by an original mini. Which was empirically
not a sports car.
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neanderthal
[/discussion]
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Yeah sure.

Topics don't end because you say so.

neanderthal
You're being a bit of a prat.
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Had you addressed that to any other member, I'd be giving you a straight Infraction right now. As it is, I don't give Infractions to people who insult me.

neanderthal
ALL cars are tools; designed to take people/ cargo places. The degree of fun/ sportyness does not begin or end with a diesel engine. There are cars affixed with the "sport" designation that would be rolled on by an original mini. Which was empirically
not a sports car.
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Yeah, read the points before wading in next time, okay? What "sportyness" has to do with anything I've said I just don't know.
 
I don't know how many of you remember my thread on how useless and costly hybrid vehicles are, but I did go through and run the numbers with a diesel powered vehicle. It's not just for fuel economy reason but at least here in America you will break even quicker and diesels tend to hold their resale values much higher than their petrol power equivalents.

Here is the original post concerning the cost breakdown, sure the fuel prices are different now but the concept is still the same.

Joey D
Round Four: Do it Diesels

For this I'm using a 2004 Jetta at the prices they were sold at by VW three years ago. Since we don't really have diesels for sale here in the states it's the best I could do.

MSRP on a 04 Jetta GL with the 2.0L 115hp engine would have ran $17,430 and got 24 city and 31 highway, leaving you with an average of 27.5mpg.

TDI version of the same car would have ran $18,670 and got 38 city and 46 highway leaving you with an average of 42 mpg.

A difference of $1,240 and 14.5 mpg.

The petrol version had a 14.5 gallon tank meaning it could go 398.75 miles before becoming empty.

Mr. TDI has the same 14.5 gallon tank meaning it could go 609 miles before being empty.

The cars have a $1,240 price difference and a 210.25 range difference. This is looking good for diesel cars so far.

The petrol version would need to be filled up 30 times per year at $39.88 per fill up time and $1196.25 for the year.

The TDI version would need to be filled up 20 time per year at $41.33 per fill up and $826.60 per year. Leaving you a difference of $396.65.

This means you would have to own the TDI 3 years in order to recoup your initial investment.

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Bottom line, you are better off owning a diesel, followed by petrol, followed by a hybrid.
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Owning a diesel will save you money if you keep your vehicle for a long period of time, or even just longer than three years. Honestly if they sold more desirable diesels in the states (I do not want a MKV Jetta TDI) I would more than likely get one. Hell the MINI Cooper D is supposed to get ridiculous mileage and I'm told is still quite fun to drive by European owners.

Now are Jetta's luxury though? I wouldn't really think so, but still I think you could apply this to any vehicle with various engines in it to see how the cost v. performance v. economy would all play out. Most people don't need something fun to drive or even sporty, so I can't really see any good reason to rule out a diesel. I've drive both Golf and Jetta TDI's in both auto and manual and never really thought of them as bad. Sure they were slow but honestly driving in "the city" you can't really go all that fast either.
 
Joey D
I've drive both Golf and Jetta TDI's in both auto and manual and never really thought of them as bad. Sure they were slow but honestly driving in "the city" you can't really go all that fast either.
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As someone who has driven both the gas and diesel versions of the MKIV, honestly, there isn't that vast of a difference between the two of them. Both are underpowered and overweight, and to generally be honest, the fractional differences in acceleration put against the gains in fuel efficiency is nothing to complain about. Either way, the low-end torque was impressive, and it felt good to drive... A far cry from the 2.0L "regular" model.
 
They must be, as the EPA says all S40s get 28 highway.




@ Joey: One of the magazines (I can't remember which one. If I find it I'll scan the article) did a similar study this month and reached the opposite conclusion.
 
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It was listed as 20/28 (turbocharged model was 19/28).
 
Toronado
@ Joey: One of the magazines (I can't remember which one. If I find it I'll scan the article) did a similar study this month and reached the opposite conclusion.
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If you could remember that would be awesome, I'm actually curious to read it and see how they figured it out. My data is a bit old so maybe a reworking is in order.
 
Without researching, id say the TSX and 330d can do it
 
It doesn't say how much it costs, but it might fit the bill. Besides, your old people already own a crap Toyota-lux.
 
Joey D
If you could remember that would be awesome, I'm actually curious to read it and see how they figured it out. My data is a bit old so maybe a reworking is in order.
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It was this months Car and Driver. You want me to do a scan?
 
Toronado
It was this months Car and Driver. You want me to do a scan?
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Jan 07 or Feb 07? I know they tend to jump all around on months, if it's Jan's which I think has the 370Z on the cover I can snag it from work.
 
Keef
It doesn't say how much it costs, but it might fit the bill. Besides, your old people already own a crap Toyota-lux.
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I thought the same thing too earlier today. Since the ES starts at $34K, it would seem moderately reasonable if the HS250h kicks in just below $30K. Of course, that largely depends on whether or not the Prius jumps in price.
 
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