4.18 Tiebreaker

[Ricolamb]

yeah...the race itself is among us racing this BC, not with AI

 

[IforceV8]

Leaving the AI car on road comfort and road economy will take them out of the race by T1/Lap 1,im all for that. 👍

When they start on Sport tires the first lap seems to be chaos.

 

[Duke]

Isn't the real race between the dozen human drivers doing this race and not between them and the AI?

Yet, bobkart, in another thread you are lamenting the fact that 7 out of 10 races are Arcade Mode hot laps... so why try to turn this into another arcade mode hotlap?

 

[eggmann]

Yet, bobkart, in another thread you are lamenting the fact that 7 out of 10 races are Arcade Mode hot laps... so why try to turn this into another arcade mode hotlap?

Making the AI a non-issue doesn't change a multi-lap race into a hotlap. There's still the challenge of running clean and fast for longer than one lap.

 

[Duke]

If the sole object is to get the AI out of the way permanently as soon as possible, then don't put them in in the first place. Just make it a multiple-lap hotlap session and call it a day. There are others proposed and voted for.

But I really don't understand the point of putting AI in and then crippling them so that you never have to deal with them. Either make it a fight or keep them off the track entirely.

 

[bobkart]

Yet, bobkart, in another thread you are lamenting the fact that 7 out of 10 races are Arcade Mode hot laps... so why try to turn this into another arcade mode hotlap?

Well in that other Topic I said I'd leave it at that, but since you asked:

Hot lap versus Multi-lap race: it's not about the AI cars, but about consistency over several laps, as eggman points out.
Arcade event versus GT Mode: this one's about being able to set the cars up, as an additional factor in the driver's performance, instead of everyone getting the same setup (Top Speed notwithstanding).

And it wasn't a knock against the BC5 Administration. Those races were voted for by the competitors. That's the sad part.

 

[IforceV8]

If the sole object is to get the AI out of the way permanently as soon as possible, then don't put them in in the first place. Just make it a multiple-lap hotlap session and call it a day. There are others proposed and voted for.

But I really don't understand the point of putting AI in and then crippling them so that you never have to deal with them. Either make it a fight or keep them off the track entirely.

Great,lets make Monaco a 10 lap hotlap race. 👍 👍

 

[bobkart]

If the sole object is to get the AI out of the way permanently as soon as possible, then don't put them in in the first place. Just make it a multiple-lap hotlap session and call it a day. There are others proposed and voted for.

But I really don't understand the point of putting AI in and then crippling them so that you never have to deal with them. Either make it a fight or keep them off the track entirely.

Many of the races our team proposed did just that: keep them off the track. Apparently people had a hard time with the multi-lap Free Run thing. Whatever. And even when the AI were "put in", at least by our team, it wasn't to create a battle with them, it was just to have a multi-lap race that wasn't free run, I agree there is little difference there, except that nobody seemed to like the multi-lap free run (again I point out).

In the past BCs it has been pretty well acknowledged that fighting with the AI when you are trying to get your best time is just plain frustrating, requiring restart after restart, and turns the race into much more of a crap shoot than aything else. I don't think racing between human drivers should have that kind of factor in there.

 

[bobkart]

Yet, bobkart, in another thread you are lamenting the fact that 7 out of 10 races are Arcade Mode hot laps... so why try to turn this into another arcade mode hotlap?

And actually, that lament was in this very Topic.

 

[Ricolamb]

that was my purpose when I posted a race of multiple hotlaps...no AI on the way...just ur consistency...I didn't know i could have used that format for every race, so I did it just for Wild card one...wich was free...

@ JB: lol...monaco is good to be done 10 laps hotlap mode...and tokyo was plenty of walls...

 

[IforceV8]

that was my purpose when I posted a race of multiple hotlaps...no AI on the way...just ur consistency...I didn't know i could have used that format for every race, so I did it just for Wild card one...wich was free...

@ JB: lol...monaco is good to be done 10 laps hotlap mode...and tokyo was plenty of walls...

Yeah i know,but that Jag was too inconsistent with its handling and R246 isnt what it used to be.

 

[IforceV8]

So are we playing demo derby with the Viper or what?Im guessing that Tony wants this to be a 2 lap duel so if thats the way it will be then lets put the sports tires and go battle.

 

[Duke]

I'm open either way. I just couldn't understand the point of having it half of both ways... If nobody wants to deal with the lame-brained AI I'm fine with that. I love the multiple hotlap idea, and it's easy to add up the times - when you save the replay, it gives the time for all completed flying laps, without any time added for the warmup lap or the few seconds into the next lap before you cancel.

And no, I didn't think anybody was knocking the administration, but thank you for saying that.

 

[bobkart]

Sounds good, then we can race (human)driver-to-driver without the AI being a huge random variable causing restart after restart. A test of skill rather than skill plus luck.

 

[IforceV8]

For what its worth i just ran 2 races against the Spyker and Viper and was able to clear them both at turn 3.This could only be done (by me) if i stuck the AI on Sport Hard tires.

Also of the 2 the Spyker is easier to pass.Once the pass of either car is done before T1 they are not a factor the rest of the race.I beat the Viper by 11 sec.

 

[Tony Randall]

Well speaking honestly guys, I really wouldn't mind if we chucked the thing out and run the Jag @ tokyo. simply coz this one has pissed off so many of us , including me I might add . Sorry about that it's my fault.

I realise that many don't like battling with the AI. They can get in the way and are frustrating. But guys like Zoky or Arco piss through the other 5 cars in mission 34 clean as a whistle and still on the limit. So I put this one forward because with only one other car because I thought it would be a reasonable balance of the two types of races (Hotlap & AI race). If it was to be a pure hotlap at this track I would have picked a very different car.

As we go to press I'm not sure if the open tyre rule will be a blanket rule covering All AI races. But if anyone is asking me to make a call on it Now. I'd preffer it to be run with the AI on the same S3 sports tyres (I know theres no way to varify it). I'd choose this, simply because it was tested and voted-in on the original specs, and might be a bit unfair to all the teams if a different animal shows up come race time.

But I trust you guys judgment regarding the overall BC. So I'd have no problem to run it with any tyres on the AI to get it out of the way to fit in with the bigger picture.. or even run the thing as a plain time trial if you think your team members won't mind.

 

[IforceV8]

I think the real problem is that we are now slaves to our own creation.We have made the driving rules so strict (with good intentions) that we are now stuck with them.Any little contact with the digital dummy and its penalty time.I for one would love to bang fenders with the AI and make a race of it but it cant be done in this format so the only option is to either slow down and wait for the Spyker/Viper to go spinning off into the weeds or stick him with hard tires and try to make it past at turn 3.


EDIT-Went at this again with the AI on softs and was able to squeeze past the Spyker in turn 3.The run against the Viper was more exciting as i was up on 2 wheels flying over the inside curb and i think my arm was resting against the front fender of the Dodge.

Lets race...

 

[Tony Randall]

Yes I agree there Jim. This particular BC (without any availble edit program) has been kinda new territory, and lots has had to be addapted before the curtain goes up. Still, guess we'll get there one way or another.

As for this frankenstien of a race. Yep stick the Spyker / Viper on hards and lets get on with.. That OK fella's?

EDIT: Just seen your edit I ain't nowhere near as quick as you mate, but having run this one a lot it is possible to get past with him with him on softs... but often you have to give him a wide birth on the start straight of lap 2 as he catches up..(or risk a knock) he's 500plus hp and the 7 is only 158hp I think sticking him on hards would be more up most peoples street at the end of the day.

 

[IforceV8]

Hards are OK with me.

 

[eggmann]

I'm open either way. I just couldn't understand the point of having it half of both ways... If nobody wants to deal with the lame-brained AI I'm fine with that. I love the multiple hotlap idea, and it's easy to add up the times - when you save the replay, it gives the time for all completed flying laps, without any time added for the warmup lap or the few seconds into the next lap before you cancel.

The starting lap is part of the fun - whoever can pass the AI fastest and/or get their tires rolling fastest from a standing start (if applicable). I'm not against the idea of multiple hot laps (if the combo were better than the one proposed for the race in this thread), but we've already voted for the races as they were. If Tony's race was designed for AI on Sports tires, then daggone it, we should drive it that way. I think the grey area for cheating when watching these replays is much smaller than some people let on. If you watch replays of 10 people driving against the right AI tires, then 1 or 2 who race versus different AI tires would surely stand out.
(Sorry, that opens a whole new bag of weed, RE: each replay only being checked once, and each verifier only checking one replay.)