6 months in and the dailies still have no N-class racing, or tuning.

  • Thread starter Voodoovaj
  • 77 comments
  • 3,163 views

Would you like N class racing and tuning in the dailies?

  • Yes, I want to see both

    Votes: 42 31.3%
  • Yes, I want N class racing, but no tuning

    Votes: 53 39.6%
  • Yes, I want tuning, but I don;t care about the street cars

    Votes: 15 11.2%
  • No, I like it the way it is. No tuning and no street cars.

    Votes: 24 17.9%

  • Total voters
    134
4,916
Germany
Berlin, Germany
bmxmitch1
I dont get how people dont want tuning, N-class races or anything else that would make the game more interesting.

To me, GT games always were about finding the right setup for each car and trying out as much cars as possible.
GTS right now is basically.... jump in your favorite Gr.3 or Gr.4 car and race on the same old tracks with the same old setup. It just lacks depth and I dont get why this is still ignored by PD (or just left aside, because its easier to balance...)

But PD works in Baby steps, we all know that :rolleyes:
 
2,522
United States
United States
Anyone interested in a one make mx5 race with tuning allowed?

I have an mx5 upgraded to 180hp with race tires that would make for some good racing.

PS - I agree with the OP.
 
1,463
United States
Washington
quakebass
I think a simple solution could be found by either putting more significant BoP nerfs on detuned cars (like the M4), or disallowing higher classes to join lower classes (or vice versa with the X-Bow or GT40 in some cases). We now have plenty of cars to choose from in pretty much everything but N800, 900, and 1000, and if there’s a few extremes they could just be excluded from a race. Alternatively, they could start doing “theme” events in race A, (like the league races) taking small selections of cars and putting them against each other - WRX vs Lancer Evo, GTR race, retro Ferrari vs. Lamborghini (512 vs Countach), FF, AWD, MR, FR cups, something.

We need something other than just one makes for race A, they might as well put the N class cars in Gr. X if we can’t use them against each other competitively.
 
3,011
United States
Louisville Ky
RlNSKY I is an L
I tell you why I don't want tuning this time around.
I was into tuning on GT6 heavily and the amount of time that is required to tune one car is a lot of man hours. Hours upon hours of testing and adjusting to find a setup that works best for you and only you. Even then I seemed to never stop making adjustments once I found a setup I was happy with. All this for one car and one track.
With 1200 something cars in GT6 it made it impossible to adjust all those cars.
I was disappointed when I first got GTS and realized tuning was pretty much obsolete but as time went on I started to enjoy not wasting so many hours making adjustments on my cars and realized I was getting to race more because of that and everyone was on a level playing field and this made the random racing more competitive than it ever was in GT6.

So right now anyone who enters Sport Mode is on the same setup as everyone eles and it all comes down to driver skill, your knowledge of the track and the your ability to learn where your losing time and how to improve on it.

Add tuning to that and it changes everything Sport Mode was built around. You would think by now most would understand it's only a short matter of time before people will fine a way to exploit tuning and find new ways to cheat. They have found ways to do it with every part of this game in the past & present and tuning will be no exception.

People will stop playing Sport Mode because most have very limited knowledge on tuning or simply don't have the time to invest in the hours it takes to get it right.

Tuning should stay in the lobbies for racing so people who like tuning can meet up and where I still go for racing tuned cars.
Sport Mode should remain a tune free zone for some of the best random racing where it's all about the driver and not car setups.
Sport Mode already has enough problems that need to be fixed and the last thing it needs is another headache added to it.
 
786
United States
United States
There were 1200+ cars in GT6. Mostly road cars. It was pretty easy in GT6 to get a fairly diverse grid with tuning prohibited at most PP levels. The trouble is, GTS's selection is minuscule in comparison, so consequently it is much harder to put a grid together of a decent variety of cars with decent BoP.

I hate to say it, but other than graphics, I can't think of one single way GTS is better than GT6. We have gone from a game that was fun, controllable, massively variable with regard to car selection, tuning options, track selection, weather and time of day, to this very pretty to look at but horribly limited apology for a game from a company that should know better.

If you missed out on GT5/6, you missed out on the high point of PD's achievement. So far, it looks like a continued steeply downward path.
 
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2,686
United States
Connecticut
Ridley-X4
My idea:

Sport Mode is about driving skill and racecraft - and these things only, more or less. So I think Sport Mode should be limited to one-make races (both of the N-series and Gr.X variety), and Gr.1/Gr.2/Gr.3/Gr.4/Gr.B races, and any other series that may be added as we go along.

But! I do think we should get a ton of more options in the lobbies, and at least allow for enough customization in the settings to replicate GT League events, maybe with a few more parameters. Like how a lot of GT League events have a N-series class listed next to them, but not an actually enforced power limitation. So it can say N600, but without a maximum limitation of ~644HP or whatever, you could still enter a stock-spec LaFerrari/Veyron. Similarly, while both VGT Trophy events only permit different groups of Gr.X-spec VGTs, they aren't all similarly-powered, so in that Amateur League VGT Trophy event, you'll likely be at a massive disadvantage if you pick the Daihatsu VGT, or the Peugeot LH500 VGT. In fact, in the GT League Stars and Stripes championship, I'm not sure if the AI-controlled Ford GT was actually tuned down to N400 despite the fact it can actually do that if you own one, nor the Veneno/Veyron/LaFerrari in the MR Challenge down to N600.

Or imagine if we could actually make series events like in older GT games, and you could win a friendly championship with points. Basically, create your own events in a lobby, using GT League and other GT games as inspiration - maybe even have a lobby version of the classic Roadster Endurance.

EDIT: And I think there should be a more specific set of options for which aspects of tuning do you want to prohibit/permit. Like you could prohibit tuning everything but power alone, so you can enter a car into a different N-series (e.g. Toyota Supra Mk.IV in N900, or a Ford GT in N400). Or if you still wanna have fun with specified tunes, you could do that too.
 
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786
United States
United States
Way back in GT5/6, we often felt it would be great to allow tuning for only the transmission and suspension, but engine upgrades (to raise power) and weight reduction should be optionally disabled.

Apparently, PD have never heard of spec racing... :banghead:
 

MikeV27

Premium
2,878
Canada
Kirkland Lake, Ontario.
MikeV27
No tuning just waters Sport Mode down.

I'd like to see a Race D lobby with N-class cars and tuning. I would expect there to eventually be a handful of META cars for each category but I would still enjoy testing and tuning cars for these races. 25 min races with standard fuel and tire wear would be my choice.
 
2,522
United States
United States
I wish that they would at least expand the options within custom lobbies. That would give race organizers the ability to run club races however they want to.
 
389
United States
United States
wheelmansteve
Hmm. I would love some low-N races- driving a slow car fast can be truly entertaining. (I had a '86 8-valve Scirocco that pretty much embodied this...)However, let's clarify the difference between "tuning" and "setup". If "tuning" means gaming the system (transmission gimmicks, etc.), then NO. "Setup" to me means chassis only. Lock the trans/diff settings, but allow camber/toe/spring/damper settings to be adjusted, then sure. I know what chassis works for me within a pretty general range on almost every car, but I don't want to have to spend hours tweaking gear ratios just to keep from getting dropped.
 
2,522
United States
United States
Hmm. I would love some low-N races- driving a slow car fast can be truly entertaining. (I had a '86 8-valve Scirocco that pretty much embodied this...)However, let's clarify the difference between "tuning" and "setup". If "tuning" means gaming the system (transmission gimmicks, etc.), then NO. "Setup" to me means chassis only. Lock the trans/diff settings, but allow camber/toe/spring/damper settings to be adjusted, then sure. I know what chassis works for me within a pretty general range on almost every car, but I don't want to have to spend hours tweaking gear ratios just to keep from getting dropped.

I agree with you 100%. That is the essence of spec racing. Right now, the only way to do a one make spec series is to allow tuning and just trust that participants won't adjust their transmission/diff settings. I am desperately wanting to run a Global MX-5 spec series where the HP is increased slightly and the weight is reduced (to mimic the Global Cup car somewhat) but the only way to run the lobby is to open up tuning and give access to every tuning option to participants. It would be nice to be able to lock the transmission and diff settings and let drivers tweak suspension settings but that's not possible with how PD have set things up. Disappointing. To say the least. All or nothing I guess.

The Clio and new Alpine are also perfect cars for this.
 
1,237
United Kingdom
Gloucestershire
I agree with you 100%. That is the essence of spec racing. Right now, the only way to do a one make spec series is to allow tuning and just trust that participants won't adjust their transmission/diff settings. I am desperately wanting to run a Global MX-5 spec series where the HP is increased slightly and the weight is reduced (to mimic the Global Cup car somewhat) but the only way to run the lobby is to open up tuning and give access to every tuning option to participants. It would be nice to be able to lock the transmission and diff settings and let drivers tweak suspension settings but that's not possible with how PD have set things up. Disappointing. To say the least. All or nothing I guess.

The Clio and new Alpine are also perfect cars for this.

Dude I ran my own Global MX5 Series season 1 was great fun but we could not get the numbers for season 2 i even spec'd the cars from the actual rules and had all the correct sponsors. Would love to run this again.
 
I agree with you 100%. That is the essence of spec racing. Right now, the only way to do a one make spec series is to allow tuning and just trust that participants won't adjust their transmission/diff settings. I am desperately wanting to run a Global MX-5 spec series where the HP is increased slightly and the weight is reduced (to mimic the Global Cup car somewhat) but the only way to run the lobby is to open up tuning and give access to every tuning option to participants. It would be nice to be able to lock the transmission and diff settings and let drivers tweak suspension settings but that's not possible with how PD have set things up. Disappointing. To say the least. All or nothing I guess.

The Clio and new Alpine are also perfect cars for this.
Might be worth looking at a VGT for this. Pretty sure you can’t adjust the diff and gears with those. The BMW would be good for a one make series.
 
1,459
Greece
Greece
Giorgos_Ferrari
Both Cause N class is about many production road cars with similar trends race each other like for example GR.4 , But one there must be one big change (im going to use caps in order to give emfasis) NO UP OR DOWN GRADE TO THE POWER& KG OF THE CAR ALLOWED WHEN IN BOP STATUS like all the other groups thats what caused the fall of the original concept in the first place.
As for tuning i get why some pepole want to have the same setup with everyone else but the issue is that at the same time everyone has different driving styles to give an example i didn't use the 458 & the Huracan i GR.3 yet because they are very tailhappy for my style.
 

TetsuKobura

Iron Cobra
Premium
1,543
United States
Houston, TX
SDM_IronCobra
Once again, one make races with no tuning is as fair as it gets.
Gr4/Gr3 races with no tuning is silly because the cars are definitely not equal. Tuning fixes that.

Hell all I want is to be able to change the LSD because 10/40/20 is TRASH.
 
728
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
LZR_Thomas
Gr4/Gr3 races with no tuning is silly because the cars are definitely not equal. Tuning fixes that.

How are PD meant to get a better BoP than now once you introduce thousands more variables via tuning? There are just a handful of cars in each class that are genuinely slow, everything else is reasonably competitive in the right hands. Leaderboards are often misleading as the 'fastest' car over one lap in fixed conditions isn't often the fastest over a race stint with tyre wear and fuel.

With tuning you are much more likely to find a car that would obliterate everything in its class. There's a car in every class atm that suits pretty much every driving style you can think of.
 
56
United States
California
Panzerschreck327
The most fun online races have either been N300 or N500 lobby races. They're way more fun than daily Gr or one make races. I once raced a Challenger with my SW20, it was a pretty close match and a ton of fun.

As for the tuning, I hate the tuning in this game. I want to be able to buy individual parts again.
 

TetsuKobura

Iron Cobra
Premium
1,543
United States
Houston, TX
SDM_IronCobra
How are PD meant to get a better BoP than now once you introduce thousands more variables via tuning? There are just a handful of cars in each class that are genuinely slow, everything else is reasonably competitive in the right hands. Leaderboards are often misleading as the 'fastest' car over one lap in fixed conditions isn't often the fastest over a race stint with tyre wear and fuel.

With tuning you are much more likely to find a car that would obliterate everything in its class. There's a car in every class atm that suits pretty much every driving style you can think of.
...You do realize currently there isn’t a single OP car in Gr3 if tuning is allowed, right? I go to Gr3 rooms on a fairly large basis. It used the be the BMW but the recent HP nerf stopped them from dominating them all.

Let’s talk about the transmission. Some cars have possibly one of the worst transmission tunes I’ve ever seen, where not even a quarter of 6th gear in used on certain tracks, whereas other cars have a pretty decent transmission where that isn’t an issue.

What about suspension? The Porsche is one of the most stable cars in Gr3 no tuning, where other cars have setups that are nothing more than throwing something across ice.
 
276
United States
Austin
SleezyBigSlim
Many of the N-class races would just be one-makes really due to most N-classes having a hugely dominant car.

And I think the cars in each class are too varied for BOP to work well, without altering cars too much.

There needs to be more of the N class cars featured though, especially N400 up.

Tuning...ehhhh personally it is just something that would turn me away more. I love knowing that I have the same opportunity and same setup as another driver. I'd feel like I would have to wait for another player to go 'oh I'm using these settings' until I'd want to take part. I know the basics of tuning of course, and setup differences, but I still would likely not feel comfortable until someone else has given a high rated setup
I feel the opposite about tuning. I'm just an average racer at best. With tuning I can run with aliens because my tunes are that good. We all like what suites us best and hopefully they add options for us all. I say keep the 3 dailies as is and add one race that allows tuning.
 
276
United States
Austin
SleezyBigSlim
Those that oppose tuning should also oppose using a wheel... they claim they want a level playing field but invested $200-$500 dollars to have an advantage over the vast majority in the game that play with a DS4. Tuning is a free feature that requires the use of your brain and some trial and error testing. I know absolutely nothing about the tuning of cars in real life but through patient testing and tweaking I’ve learned a lot about tuning in GT Sport. Can’t stand the argument about wanting things fair and equal... it’s more fair to allow tuning for EVERYONE, than it is to allow wheel users to race against DS4 users.
This. So much this! Also GT is realistic enough to Google real-world car set ups and use them in game. I've been doing it since GT3 so it's pretty easy for beginners to tune if they approach it correctly. People are so affraid to compete and it starts young is sad really.
 
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2,933
Canada
London, Ontario
voodoovaj
I agree with you 100%. That is the essence of spec racing. Right now, the only way to do a one make spec series is to allow tuning and just trust that participants won't adjust their transmission/diff settings. I am desperately wanting to run a Global MX-5 spec series where the HP is increased slightly and the weight is reduced (to mimic the Global Cup car somewhat) but the only way to run the lobby is to open up tuning and give access to every tuning option to participants. It would be nice to be able to lock the transmission and diff settings and let drivers tweak suspension settings but that's not possible with how PD have set things up. Disappointing. To say the least. All or nothing I guess.

The Clio and new Alpine are also perfect cars for this.

Not true!! Remember when the Isle of Mann Subaru one make race happened? We were allowed to adjust power and weight, but nothing else! With BoP on, the weight and power are locked. They must then have the ability to lock out parts of the tuning, as is the case right now where TC and brake balance can be set in the tuning, but nothing else.

I 100% agree that cars should be locked to their original N-class and BoP should be on for the dailies. That will allow for proper balancing over time. Unlike with the PP system, it seems that the BoP system doesn't handle moving a car around into different classes so simply disallow it.
 
2,522
United States
United States
Not true!! Remember when the Isle of Mann Subaru one make race happened? We were allowed to adjust power and weight, but nothing else! With BoP on, the weight and power are locked. They must then have the ability to lock out parts of the tuning, as is the case right now where TC and brake balance can be set in the tuning, but nothing else.

I 100% agree that cars should be locked to their original N-class and BoP should be on for the dailies. That will allow for proper balancing over time. Unlike with the PP system, it seems that the BoP system doesn't handle moving a car around into different classes so simply disallow it.

I guess I wasn' clear about my concerns. I'm okay with PD doing whatever it likes with its A,B and C races. They can set those up however they like. It' their prerogative, one could say. But...at least give the user the opportunity to set our own lobbies however we like. Spec racing is the gateway for most real racers. I would just like the opportunity to mimic a series like the Global mx-5 cup or the Clio Cup. Either that or get those cup cars in this title and let us race them.

There are so many essential and very cool race cars that many would enjoy. Entry level stuff like:

Mini Cooper Cup Car
911 GT3 Cup Car
Clio Cup Car
FORMULA FORD
Global MX-5
Etc.

But I digress because now I'm getting into game content.

Might be worth looking at a VGT for this. Pretty sure you can’t adjust the diff and gears with those. The BMW would be good for a one make series.

Agreed, I was just testing the BMW VGT last week. So much that I did a tribute Jagermeister livery for it. That car is beautiful.

Dude I ran my own Global MX5 Series season 1 was great fun but we could not get the numbers for season 2 i even spec'd the cars from the actual rules and had all the correct sponsors. Would love to run this again.

I need to join your series. That' the kind of racing I enjoy the most. Send me an FR when you get a chance.
 
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Honestly I would be so happy with N-races with or without tuning.

BUT, I think it would be better without tuning. I was a huge fan of tuning in previous GT but honestly it is too much time consuming (time I don't have anymore) and now we finally have a great online with Sport mode I prefer spend my time in racing against others than in tuning.

I love the idea of jumping in an N200 car and go for a race. I don't want to select the race and think "oh no I don't have a short gearbox setup for this track ! I just have 2 minutes to try one before the race start !"... I see a lot of of frustration with tuning here.
Yeah I’ve been doing random lobbies quite a bit lately and there’s often a significant disparity between racers even in the same car in a straight line! (The gearbox flattening has got to go!).
You need to be able to allow for wheel users and controller users.
Even balancing that is quite a task, never mind adding tuning into the mix.

Personally, I wouldn’t mind tuning but I think there would be much, much fewer close races.
 
3,011
United States
Louisville Ky
RlNSKY I is an L
This whole thread is full of people who like N-Class racing so let's try getting a league going. I'm fine with anything from N-100 to N-1000 mixed cars or one makes, tuning or no tuning.

I know Snail has just posted a one make race league starting but it's on Sundays. I can only get involved in a league on Tuesday or Wednesdays. If anyone has plans to start a league during the week let me know. Or I can put one together if need be.
I already run Gr.4 1.5hr endurance races once a month on my only available Saturdays.
 
728
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
LZR_Thomas
...You do realize currently there isn’t a single OP car in Gr3 if tuning is allowed, right? I go to Gr3 rooms on a fairly large basis. It used the be the BMW but the recent HP nerf stopped them from dominating them all.

Let’s talk about the transmission. Some cars have possibly one of the worst transmission tunes I’ve ever seen, where not even a quarter of 6th gear in used on certain tracks, whereas other cars have a pretty decent transmission where that isn’t an issue.

What about suspension? The Porsche is one of the most stable cars in Gr3 no tuning, where other cars have setups that are nothing more than throwing something across ice.

Open lobbies have such a range of driving ability it's not really the best place to determine the true pace of cars tbh. The 911 is still one of the best cars in the class despite it's gearing, just think of the advantage that car would get just from gearbox tuning alone over the rest of the field.

A lot of these cars that 'drive on ice' are still very fast, you just need to adapt your driving to them accordingly and they start handling much better as well.