60-80k budget, What to buy?

[Leonidae]

how about RS6? now that new S6 is out, and RS6 on the way, their prices have dropped nicely. and that 4.2l twinturbo is fairly responsive. chip and full exhaust system, and bigger intercoolers will easily bring that ordinary looking sedan into supercar territory in the terms of power and acceleration. and it's practical as well.

 

[McLaren]

Ha, I love these NSX Vs. whoever arguments.

You're all forgetting 1 thing. Gentlemen's Agreement, and that the NSX was one of the very few cars who followed it. I guarantee you if the deal had not gone into effect, the Corvette would be dead, and is on the last breaths even when pitted against it.

2nd off, the NSX was revised around suspension.
Pitch the many supercars on tight corners against the'92 or '02 NSX-R, and Honda will be breathing down your neck.
Where the NSX-R lost in power, came in handling.

BTW, when justifing a price for the NSX, give a YEAR. The NSX never started in the $80,000 market, and was released around $55-$60,000. And for a car overpriced, it must have done something to sell for 15 years, with only 1 change in it.

3rd off, we'll see how well the NSX runs in 30 years when the Vette sits in a field rusting away.

OH, and 1 more thing. Not worth the money for a NSX, given there's much faster?
Hmm, not according the Nurburgring.

7'56 - Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale - 2004
7'56 - Porsche 996 Turbo - 2000
7'56 - Chevrolet Corvette Z05 C5 – 2003
7'56.- Honda NSX-R - 2002
7'58 - Audi RS4 4.2 V8 FSI - 2005
7'59 - Chevrolet C6 Z51 –
7'59 - Nissan Skyline R33 GT-R - 1997
7'59.93 - Subaru Impreza WRX STi spec C prototype - 2004
8'03 - Aston Martin V8 Vantage - 2005
8'04 - Lamborghini Diablo GT - 2000
8'05 - Ferrari 575M - 2002
8'05 - Ruf CTR -
8'06 - Mercedes Benz SL55 AMG – 2002
8'06.59 - Impreza Sti spec C - 2002
8'07 - Ferrari 550 Maranello - 1998
8'09 - Audi RS4 - 2006
8'09 - BMW M6 - 2005
8'09 - Ferrari 360 Modena - 1999
8'09 - Lamborghini Diablo SV - 1997
8'10 - Chrysler Viper GTS - 1997
8'10 - Donkervoort D8 180R - 2001
8'10.75 - Subaru Impreza WRX STi Version III sedan - 1997
8'11 - Mitsubishi Lancer EVO IX - 2005
8'11 - Porsche Cayman S - 2005
8'13 - BMW M5 E60 - 2004 (car was limited to 155mph)
8'13 - Lotus Esprit Sport 350 - 1999
8'13 - Dodge Viper SRT-10 – 2004
8'14 - Mercedes SL 65 AMG - 2005
8'15 - Alpina Roadster S - 2005
8'15 - Corvette C6 - 2005
8'15 - Ruf 911 CTR 2 -
8'16 - Aston Martin DB9 2004
8'16 - AC-Schnitzer M3 CLS II E36 - 1996
8'16 - AC-Schnitzer V8 Topster
8'16 - Honda NSX - 2002
8'17 - Aston Martin V12 Vanquish - 2003
8'18 - BMW Z8 - 2000
8'18 - Chevrolet Corvette Z05 Commemorative Edition - 2003
8'18 - Ferrari F355 - 1996
8'18 - Maserati GranSport - 2004
8'20 - Audi RS6 - 2001
8'20 - BMW M3 E36 -
8'22 - BMW M3 E46 - 2000
8'22 - BMW M Coupe - 1998
8'22 - Mercedes-Benz C55 - 1999
8'22.38 - Nissan Skyline R32 GTR -
8'25 - Corvette Callaway C12 - 1999
8'26 - Nissan 350Z - 2003
8'28 - BMW M5 - 1999
8'28.93 - Subaru Impreza WRX - 1992
8'29 - Audi S4 4.2 Avant - 2003

Tied with 360 Challenge Stradale, a track car from Ferrari with 425Hp, and a price of around $190,000.
Lamborghini Diablo GT, another race car made street legal from Lamborghini with 567Bhp @ $265,000.

Both these equaled and beaten with a V6 @ 280Bhp sold for around the $100,000 mark.

 

[Tornado]

While I agree with you, it must be said that the Diablo GT (or any Lambo) is hardly a track-oriented machine.
In addition, in all fairness, the NSX-R doesn't really apply to this arguement, as it was only sold in Japan and can't be imported. The closest we got the the NSX-R was the NSX Zanardi Edition (now there is an idea!).
The normal NSX achieved this (which would still be faster than a normal U.S. NSX due to added weight.):
8'16 - Honda NSX - 2002
Also must be said is this:

7'56 - Chevrolet Corvette Z05 C5 – 2003
7'59 - Chevrolet C6 Z51
7'59 - Nissan Skyline R33 GT-R - 1997
7'59.93 - Subaru Impreza WRX STi spec C prototype - 2004

These are all cars that cost far less than the NSX-R did likewise (because the R did cost 100k).
I do stand behind the notion that an NSX would be a good buy due to it's handling alone.

 

[McLaren]

True, true, Lamborghinis never were built to incorporate racing into them (given the only series they really succeeded in was the GTR series, hehe. ).

 

[JCE]

The US never got the NSX-R so that automatically nullifies it on that 'ring timelist. The NSX is a great second hand car...let me repeat...it's a great used car. If you bought one new...then you wasted your money. The only exception to previous sentence is if you bought it for the styling and or brand loyalty. Either of which is priceless. I don't want anyone to think I'm bashing the car...I'm not. I'd be happy to find a used one (forgot to ask about this one's symbol rating with my insurance agent).

 

[Onikaze]

Yeah, the NSX-R was probably a lot closer to worth the money.

I've never seen one, and I don't know that I've met someone in person who has.

The NSX we got over here, especially the first gen models, certainly didn't do 7'56 Nurburgring laps, they didn't even do the 8'12 of the 2002 Honda NSX.

So, maybe in Japan when you could get one for the right price, with all the edges intact, it would have been worth it, over here, it's a great used car, but it was never worth it's new value except to hardcore Honda fans.

 

[superfast]

The Boxster S would also get walked by a E55.

Its ok not need to reply I get the point, I personally would go for the Cayman S over the Boxster S.

Well, of course you're entitled to your opinion. Actually, I would pick the Cayman too, but it's his pick, and he likes droptops.

Perhaps he should think about an old car. Sure, they're not AS fast, and they often need a bit more work...but the value appreciates, instead of depreciating. And, you get more thumbs-up in one of those than many newer supercars.

Well sure he appreciates old cars. His current "fun car" is a 70s 300SL Convertible with a stick shift. I'm just not thinking that's what he had in mind. Jaguar XKR Type R, Maserati; I think that's what he was after.

The Z06 is quite simply the best "bang for the buck" Its a shame he doesnt want one. He could buy the Z06 and have money left for upgrades.

I know, I know. Trust me when I say that I'm trying hard to convince him.

NSX vs Corvette arguments aside, as we already know that neither are wanted, I reckon it'll be down to the 4200, XKR (if he doesn't mind second hand), or some sort of Porsche.

Or what about a brand new Shelby GT500? They're about $40-50k (off the top of my head).

Or maybe you could track down a Maserati 3200, older but with much better tail lights (I know, like that matters, but still):

Yeah. Porshce, Jag, and Maserati seem to be top choice at the moment. He likes the GT500 a lot, but I think he'd just get the Z06 if he were going for the Ford.

$59'000 Canadian
Year 1997
Make ASTON MARTIN
Model DB7

Well, I'm impressed. 👍 That's right in his line of thinking.

The Gallardo is a joke. The Z06 is not slower than it in anyway. I would believe the other two, though.

At a track day I went to at Summit Point recently, someone had brought a Gallardo, and another guy had the new 911 TT. While the Lambo obviously got all the pit-lane attention, the 911 absolutely embarrased the Italian car (both drivers were professional).

how about RS6? now that new S6 is out, and RS6 on the way, their prices have dropped nicely. and that 4.2l twinturbo is fairly responsive. chip and full exhaust system, and bigger intercoolers will easily bring that ordinary looking sedan into supercar territory in the terms of power and acceleration. and it's practical as well.

Yeah, and it's supposedly a blast to drive, except for the fact that a new M5 (almost same price range) is a bit faster. However, the RS6 comes in a wagon.

These are all cars that cost far less than the NSX-R did likewise (because the R did cost 100k).
I do stand behind the notion that an NSX would be a good buy due to it's handling alone.

A very good point, and he might be looking into at least two of those also.

 

[JCE]

I suggested the DB7 quite a long time ago.

Oh and Onikaza I agree 100%, the NSX-R is worth the money.

A second iteration of the type-R dubbed NSX-R was released in 2002, again exclusively in Japan. The NSX-R has a more aggressive rear spoiler and hood vent, along with various refinements to reduce weight to 1270 kg. Under the body, panels and air fences in the front, along with a small rear diffuser serve to produce balanced downforce. The subtle changes along with its renowned handling have kept NSX-R in contention on the track even against considerably higher-powered cars, such as the Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale, whose Nordschleife lap time it tied.

1270kg is light as hell...that's 2800lbs for those who need the conversion.

 

[YSSMAN]

1) @ Poverty: The Top Gear test you continue to bring up with the Z06 was not a Z06 at all, or not the current model at least. It was, if I remember correctly, the C5 Z06, down 100 BHP on the current model, and a few hundred pounds heavier.

2) @ McLaren: Corvettes don't rust, as they are made of fiberglass, not steel. Granted, I've seen some Corvettes in bad shape. But that said, most folks who have them take good care of their beloved cars, and the same can be said of the NSX.

 

[Leonidae]

hmm.. according to Mobile.de, cheapest used RS6 avants in europe cost around 30 k€, which is about 30k in dollars as well. i don't know how much they ask for it in US, but I assume that it'll be around that price. and RS6's aren't sold by Audi dealers anymore.

 

[Poverty]

1) @ Poverty: The Top Gear test you continue to bring up with the Z06 was not a Z06 at all, or not the current model at least. It was, if I remember correctly, the C5 Z06, down 100 BHP on the current model, and a few hundred pounds heavier.

I brought up top gear? Im confused!

In some more recent tests the Z06 hasnt faired all that good, this was a test against a 997 TT, F430 and Gallardo.

I retract this statement, as I think the testers must have messed up somewhere or were drunk and biased. I will post the reviews I read that made me say this, (P.S never trust italian car magazines)

 

[Master_Yoda]

but not anywheres near as unreliable.

Well YEAH! It's a Honda... DURR!!

 

[Famine]

1) @ Poverty: The Top Gear test you continue to bring up with the Z06 was not a Z06 at all, or not the current model at least. It was, if I remember correctly, the C5 Z06, down 100 BHP on the current model, and a few hundred pounds heavier.

O RLY?

​

 

[xXSilencerXx]

So he hates for daily driving but loves it on the track.

 

[YSSMAN]

YA RLY!

...I must be thinking of the C6 Z51 test then? Ahhh yes, the one with Hammond at the wheel complaining about the shift linkage driving like a sissy girl.

My apologies then to all!

 

[superfast]

I suggested the DB7 quite a long time ago.

Sorry. I noticed, but it didn't seem to register. Good suggestion though.

hmm.. according to Mobile.de, cheapest used RS6 avants in europe cost around 30 k€, which is about 30k in dollars as well. i don't know how much they ask for it in US, but I assume that it'll be around that price. and RS6's aren't sold by Audi dealers anymore.

Well that's pretty impressive, considering that there is an ad in Autoweek for an RS6 for 68k. There would be plenty of cash left for upgrades.

O RLY?

Nice pull. 👍

YA RLY!

...I must be thinking of the C6 Z51 test then? Ahhh yes, the one with Hammond at the wheel complaining about the shift linkage driving like a sissy girl.

My apologies then to all!

It's ok, dude. We're all forgetful from time to time.

 

[McLaren]

In it's debut comparison test, the XLR finished third in a group that included the Lexus SC430, Mercedes-Benz SL500, Porsche 911 Carrera 4 Cabrio, and Jaguar XK8 Convertable. The Jag finished in last, followed by the Lexus, then the Caddy, Porsche, then the Merc.
parts with.

YSSMAN, I just recently read a test comparing the Porsche 911 Carrera Convertible, BMW 650i Conv., Jaguar XK Conv., Mercedes-Benz SL550, and Cadillac XLR-V....

The V finished dead last from Car And Driver's test, and this was their summary.

Highs: Refinement, performance, versatility.
Lows: High Price, cramped quarters, questionable styling, attenuated driver involvment.
The Verdict: A good choice if you must be seen in a domestic vehicle.

This was a comparison for vehicles of the $100,000 buy. They gave it good ratings, but the price is mostly what kept it to 5th.

Sorry to take the thread off topic. Just showing that even mags. say the XLR-V is not worth it.

 

[superfast]

No, I agree completely *McLaren*. The XLR-V would be awesome, say, if it were the same price as the CTS-V.

Oh and btw, *McLaren*, did you really work for Lamborghini?

 

[McLaren]

I never worked for or with them, but I keep in strong contact with a few people.

Unless you mean my "job" at the dealer which was nothing but washing.

 

[zoxxy]

After seeing this I wouldn't think a second on which car I'd get!

Too bad it isn't that great for everyday usage.

 

[Leonidae]

Well that's pretty impressive, considering that there is an ad in Autoweek for an RS6 for 68k. There would be plenty of cash left for upgrades.

tell me about it. with the leftover money one could end up with a wagon that has more than 700 bhp..

 

[superfast]

After seeing this I wouldn't think a second on which car I'd get!

Too bad it isn't that great for everyday usage.

Yeah, though he wouldn't be using it EVERY day. However, what if a rock flies up? With no windshield, that really could be it..But I really do love that little car. I'll send the video to him

tell me about it. with the leftover money one could end up with a wagon that has more than 700 bhp..

 

[Leonidae]

tell him to go for RS6 avant, mmkay? and then, slowly pressure him to modify it..

 

[superfast]

tell him to go for RS6 avant, mmkay? and then, slowly pressure him to modify it..

I'm definitely liking the sound of that