96 180sx

[jdmricer]

I need help tuning this car it is as simple as that.

 

[Bowtie-muscle]

If I might make two suggestions,

First, post the settings you currently have.

Second, try and use capital letters and and proper grammar. It is in the AUP, and the staff would appreciate it. It will keep them happy and not give you grief.

 

[DaBomm4]

@RB26Mayhem has this tune and @praiano63 has this tune. Also, @GhostRider65 has a tune for the 200sx which should work well without too much change. If you have a setup that might just need slight improvement, feel free to post the tune and what type of problem you are having with the current tune so we can offer better advice to help solve your issue.

Edit: I found the other tune.

 

[DaBomm4]

Quoted from first thread:

its a 96 180sx at 490 pp with sh tires i took it out for a 1 lapper at tsukuba and it was in the 1:06 range top speed of 168 i think and a final drive of 4.1 also i made it very stiff and it understeers when i put on high grip tires but i made it that way by desighn because i drive faster with a little understeer

Seems slow, verified by @Ridox2JZGTE.

hight at 104 both sides front springs at 8kg and rear at 6kg 6 on f and r for compression 8 front and rear for ext. arb at 4F 5R zeroed out camber and toe 4.1 final drive and 168 top speed twin plate clutch and carbon drive shaft 32,38,16 on the diff stage 2 engine maxed out everything else no turbo or nos 94.8% power limiter some one said i should do that untill the first oil change and max weight reduction no ballast weight

Spoiler: The tune

Tires SH
Suspension
RH 104/104
SR 8kg/6kg
DC 6/6
DE 8/8
ARB 4/5
camber and toe at 0/0

Transmission
Final Gear 4.100
Top Speed 168

LSD
32
38
16
Twin Plate Clutch
Carbon Driveshaft

GT5's first oil change trick
Power Limiter 94.8%
Engine Stage 2
Max everything else
No Turbo

Max weight reduction
No ballast

 

[Bowtie-muscle]

I see the problem already, fix your LSD and start over.

 

[DaBomm4]

I see the problem already, fix your LSD and start over.

Actually, I did some testing with higher LSD's and he should be experiencing oversteer with this LSD. Without being at the PS3, I feel the tune is a little too stiff and the understeer could be what is actually slowing the tune down more. I will take this tune out, along with some of the other tunes I suggested to get an idea of what this car can do with other people's hands.

 

[Bowtie-muscle]

Actually, I did some testing with higher LSD's and he should be experiencing oversteer with this LSD. Without being at the PS3, I feel the tune is a little too stiff and the understeer could be what is actually slowing the tune down more. I will take this tune out, along with some of the other tunes I suggested to get an idea of what this car can do with other people's hands.

Only time I have ever seen Initial/Accel numbers that high are on NASCARS on an oval, high powered LMP, and your FTO. That's why I would start there. Then soften dampers and from springs.

Just my thought without building and testing.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

One of the problem with the 180SX is the weight distribution, similar to the S13 Silvia K premium, too much at the front compared to the real car.

The 180SX IRL has 54% front weight, this alone would help a lot to make the car drive with more balance well known to S chassis for drift and track driving.

I tested my HKS Hipermax 180SX replica 450PP version, at 278HP/1240+kg/stock corrected gear ratio, and 450PP SH, it can lap Tsukuba in 1:04s ( I do have lots of track time at Tsukuba ) Anyway, the 180SX is quite quick, took the 450PP build to current Intermediate seasonal race 500PP at Apricot Hill Reverse, managed 1:39s 1st lap, 1:37s average on subsequent laps and win easily.

I'm sure the tune that @DaBomm4 linked would be very quick and better than my replica

Some more : The 240SX is semi premium while the 180sx is still a standard The 180SX engine has higher redline at 8k, while the 240SX has 7k redline engine. Both cars are almost identical apart from the engine power/torque and redline. The 8k redline on the 180sx is similar to real life CA18DET, while the 7k redline is closer to SR20DET ( fuel cut at about 7500rpm )

 

[DaBomm4]

I spent a few laps in your tune at CS and at SH tire selection and I struggled a little with the understeer and power oversteer. With my current driving skill I was able to take your tune to Tsukuba and put down a lap of 1:05.5. I then softened up the suspension a little bit and tried again and I was able to get a lap of 1:05.0. I continued adjusting only the suspension and down the time fell, the tune is starting to look like one of my tunes. If you want to try my changes they are here.

Spoiler: My Adjusted Tune

Suspension
RH 104/104
SR 5kg/5.5kg
DC 3/6
DE 5/4
ARB 3/4
Camber 1.0/0
Toe 0.00/0.20

If you would like me to continue revising this tune feel free to ask.

 

[jdmricer]

I spent a few laps in your tune at CS and at SH tire selection and I struggled a little with the understeer and power oversteer. With my current driving skill I was able to take your tune to Tsukuba and put down a lap of 1:05.5. I then softened up the suspension a little bit and tried again and I was able to get a lap of 1:05.0. I continued adjusting only the suspension and down the time fell, the tune is starting to look like one of my tunes. If you want to try my changes they are here.

Spoiler: My Adjusted Tune

Suspension
RH 104/104
SR 5kg/5.5kg
DC 3/6
DE 5/4
ARB 3/4
Camber 1.0/0
Toe 0.00/0.20

If you would like me to continue revising this tune feel free to ask.

Thank you. The tune feels alot better ,however it will take some time for me to get used to the camber.Also it would be nice if I could do something about the weight balance but every time i tried in the past it always caused my vehicles to become unstable during high speed braking and cornering.

 

[DaBomm4]

I'm glad it helped, and one other thing I noticed is the car could really benefit from improvements to the transmission. I know you said your friends run a restricted transmission but there might be up to a second lost in the transmission on Tsukuba alone.

The best way to see/feel what each part is doing (camber/toe for example) is to take one "slider" at a time and move it some, then test drive it. Then ask yourself "Did it improve the car some or not?" Most of the tuning parts overlap each other, so don't expect to find a perfect spot for each slider on its own.

There are 2 great tuning guides pinned to the top of this forum if you want to learn more about tuning. I learned most of my tuning from them, and by participating in FITT events. I would suggest taking a look at some of the older FITT challenges and test some of the top cars in each to see the difference between other people's tuning styles.

 

[DolHaus]

Actually, I did some testing with higher LSD's and he should be experiencing oversteer with this LSD. Without being at the PS3, I feel the tune is a little too stiff and the understeer could be what is actually slowing the tune down more. I will take this tune out, along with some of the other tunes I suggested to get an idea of what this car can do with other people's hands.

The differential is fairly simple in its application, the higher the number the less different the speeds between inside and outside wheel can be. If the outside wheel can't rotate fast enough compared to the inside then you are going to have problems getting the car turned without generating excess slip.
You can run FF's with a fairly high initial as slip isn't so much of a concern but RWD's should always be as low as you can get away with, the only reason for running a high initial on the rear would be if you had an extremely unstable car that you needed to keep in a straight line.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

@jdmricer : If you want to give this one a try One of my old HKS builds from last year that I haven't got a chance to post yet. It has plenty of gear ratio options available in real life

HKS HIPERMAX D'NOB SPEC R(P)S13 450PP Version
CA18DE(T)/SR20DE(T)

Tuned to replicate HKS Hipermax D'NOB SPEC 180SX 450PP ver.
Comfort Soft to Sports Hard​

View attachment 515184​

CAR : NISSAN 180SX TYPE X '96 and NISSAN 240SX '96
Tire : Comfort Soft to Sports Hard

Specs 180SX 450PP
Horsepower: 278 HP / 282 PS at 5900 RPM
Torque : 260.1 ft-lb at 4700 RPM
Power Limiter at : 94.7%
Weight: 1243 kg
Ballast : 124 kg
Ballast Position : 42
Weight Distribution : 54 / 46 as the real car spec.
Performance Points: 450


Specs 240SX 450PP
Horsepower: 280 HP / 284 PS at 6600 RPM
Torque : 253.8 ft-lb at 4700 RPM
Power Limiter at : 97.2%
Weight: 1243 kg
Ballast : 124 kg
Ballast Position : 42
Weight Distribution : 54 / 46 as the real car spec.
Performance Points: 450




GT AUTO
NO Oil change
Improve Body Rigidity ( NOT INSTALLED )
No Wing
Wheels : 1 Inch Up VOLK RAYS TE37SL in Black
Car Paint : Spark Silver or Midnight Purple or Bay Side Blue.


Tuning Parts Installed :
Semi Racing Exhaust
High RPM Range Turbo Kit
Isometric Exhaust Manifold - ONLY FOR 180SX
Fully Customizable Suspension
Fully Customizable Dog Clutch Transmission ( OPTIONAL )
Adjustable LSD
Twin Plate Clutch
Weight Reduction Stage 1
Carbon Hood Body Color
Window Weight Reduction



Suspension - HKS HIPERMAX D'NOB SPEC with HKS Technical Factory Test Car Alignment Range
HKS Test Car Ride Height Setup
Stable Damper -BASE
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 75 78
Spring Rate: 8.00 5.00
Dampers (Compression): 4 4
Dampers (Extension): 5 7
Anti-Roll Bars: 3 1
Camber Angle: 3.7 1.3
Toe Angle: 0.00 0.00


Suspension - HKS HIPERMAX D'NOB SPEC with HKS Technical Factory Test Car Alignment Range
HKS Test Car Ride Height Setup
Better Turn in Damper - MOST EFFECTIVE ON THE 240SX
Front, Rear

Ride Height: 75 78
Spring Rate: 8.00 5.00
Dampers (Compression): 4 4
Dampers (Extension): 2 7 ( LOWER FRONT DAMPER EXTENSION )
Anti-Roll Bars: 3 1
Camber Angle: 3.7 1.3
Toe Angle: 0.00 0.00

View attachment 515185​

STOCK GEARBOX OR
DOG CLUTCH TRANSMISSION - 5 Speed OS Giken Cross Gear Mission with NISSAN OEM Final-180SX
Install all power parts
Set Default
Set Auto Max Speed at 330kmh / 205mph
Adjust each gear :
1st 2.596
2nd 1.765
3rd 1.250
4th 1.000
5th 0.833
6th 0.759 - Ignore this
Set Final : 4.300 - OPTIONAL FINAL OEM NISSAN : 4.363 or stock 180SX 4.083

DOG CLUTCH TRANSMISSION - 5 Speed OS Giken Cross Gear Mission with NISSAN OEM Final-240SX
Install all power parts
Set Default
Set Auto Max Speed at 310kmh / 193mph
Adjust each gear :
1st 2.596
2nd 1.765
3rd 1.250
4th 1.000
5th 0.833
6th 0.759 - Ignore this
Set Final : 4.300 - OPTIONAL FINAL OEM NISSAN : 4.363 or stock 180SX 4.083

OPTIONAL GEAR RATIOS - USE FINAL 4.083, 4.300 and 4.363:
IKEYA FORMULA SEQUENTIAL/ H PATTERN MISSION
1st 2.711
2nd 1.799
3rd 1.288
4th 1.000
5th 0.812

6 Speed NISMO HEAVY DUTY CROSS MISSION
1st 2.907
2nd 1.988
3rd 1.537
4th 1.218
5th 1.000
6th 0.862

OS GIKEN CROSS GEAR Kit ( 3 Speed )
1st 2.717
2nd 1.722
3rd 1.232
4th 1.000
5th 0.759

HKS SEQUENTIAL 5 Speed V1
1st 2.773
2nd 1.984
3rd 1.548
4th 1.246
5th 1.000

HKS SEQUENTIAL 5 Speed V2
1st 2.971
2nd 2.094
3rd 1.548
4th 1.246
5th 1.000

HKS SEQUENTIAL 6 Speed
1st 2.773
2nd 1.984
3rd 1.548
4th 1.246
5th 1.000
6th 0.807



LSD - NISMO GT LSD 2 Way
Initial Torque : 13
Acceleration Sensitivity: 36
Braking Sensitivity: 30

View attachment 515187​

Brake Balance:
7/10 ( personal BB) or for ABS 0 wheel : 7/10, for ABS 1 - feel free to use your preferred brake balance.

Recommended setting for DS3 user :

Steering sensitivity at +1 or +2, all aids off, except ABS 1 ( if not comfortable with ABS 0 ) with 7/10 brake balance as starting point.

Notes :


THe HKS Hipermax D'Nob Spec 180SX is a special build 450PP version, using real life spec of HKS 180SX D'Nob Spec test car, from weight, distribution, and suspension, while power level, gear ratio and LSD are custom. Stock gearbox can be used if wished.

The D'Nob Spec is special version of HKS Hipermax III coilover with focus more on drift while still great for track day time trial. Nobuteru Taniguchi gave input and his expertise to setup the coilover, spring rate is a balance often used in drift car, 8kg front and 5 kg rear for Nissan S chassis cars. Not too stiff and yet can still perform well on high G load and slip angle.

Ride height and alignment uses HKS test car spec, while ARB and damper has been optimized using real life method. Damper and ARB tuning was done mainly at Tsukuba. Aiming for balance and traction on CS tire and SH tire.

The 180SX and 240SX in GT6 has some difference, firstly the 180SX is standard car, while the 240SX is semi premium ( not much improvement ). Both cars shares similar body, chassis, suspension, gear ratio, LSD and weight/distribution when stock. The other main difference is engine, the 180SX has higher redline at closer to 8K while the 240SX has 7k redline, this also gives different power/torque curve at given PP.

When both cars has been setup with same exact specs, there is small difference as well ( other than engine/speed on each gear ) in handling. This is an example of how similar car suspension ( with same ride height range, same spring rate range ) can have different outcome when setup in the same value ( damper in this case )

The 180SX is slightly less responsive to damper change compared to the 240SX, to show this effect, I have included an optional damper for front extension, lower at 2 ( base is 5 for stable )

The lower front extension on the 240SX gave better turn in and mid corner response to steering and throttle, while the 180SX has less effect, still both are very close in handling performance.

Both 180SX and 240SX in this built has exact same suspension, LSD, weight ( distribution, ballast/position ). Due to different redline and torque/HP, speeds at each gear on stock is slightly different.

Try both cars with same stable damper setup and take it Tsukuba and Apricot Hill Reverse to see the little difference they have. Then lower front extension to 2 on both cars to see how they react to change.

The rear compression and extension ( corner exit, rotation and acceleration traction ) has been well setup, you can increase or decrease both by 1 to see how different the car will drive, same goes for the front compression ( steering and braking ).

Changing only the front extension from 5 to 2 is enough to alter the turn in and steering response to suit different style, the 5 front extension offers better stability, while lower at 2 gives better freedom. Running higher than 5 may result in tighter car.

For gear ratio, I included lots of options, for base you can run stock gearbox, it runs well. Alternatively, use the OS Giken setup or use the many ratios I have provided ( IKEYA, NISMO, OS GIKEN and HKS ) There are 3 sets of final drive ratio available, the stock 4.083, the 4.300 and 4.363 OEM NISSAN that can be fitted as well.

LSD this time is NISMO GT 2 Way, with low preload, for street and track day, this should be more than enough.

The 240SX and 180SX when tested at Tsukuba is capable of 1:04s lap ( using OS Giken 5 speed above and 4.300 final ) I have included the replay for the 240SX. The 240SX and 180SX also can win at intermediate seasonal race ( Apricot Hill Reverse ), capable of 1:37s lap consistently.