A little Experiment...

[Mr P]

Hi guys, I decided to try some laps at Kyoto with and without countersteer assist to see how much it helps or hinders in a lap? I set up the GT-R and done some laps to get up to speed.. here's my best efforts over the session with and without the illusive assist

With Countersteer on Strong and only ABS default, everything else disabled..
Laptime 1'41.7


And without Countersteer and only ABS default, everything else disabled..
Laptime 1'41.5


I wanted to see if the comments regarding the countersteer giving some drivers 1 second or more per lap was true? It seems this is slightly exaggerated and it's just like a placebo that gets given to a patient who can't be helped

I seriously think the countersteer hampers the laps slightly by not giving as much turn in the high speed kinks! whilst it steady's the car it also slows it down just a touch as a consequence.. will try with a less grippy car next time and see how it works out! but this is my findings for the GT-R and hopefully it's food for thought for anyone who thinks they are being cheated by some superman switch

Thanks for listening

 

[TCG]

Awesome work man! Actual experimentation and fact finding will trump armchair speculation every time.

 

[DeuxMilles]

Hi Ron,

try the Viper GT4. Countersteer assist doesn't help me to improve my laptimes in the GT-R also, I can't see and feel any difference at all. But in the Viper I found a second using this assist. No placebo, but reproducible.

cheers,
D.

 

[Finflash]

I came pretty much to same conclusion after testing it, steadier not faster. I have to admit my initial thoughts were different. I think the impression comes from that it makes it easier to pull more cleaner laps with it initially, hence better laptime. My best sector times didn't improve.

I haven't got under 1:42 yet, can't pull the lap together. I seem to lose time leaving hairpin, overall my acceleration is slightly worse everywhere compared to you. Need to check that gearing again.

 

[PzR Slim]

Counter steer assist improved my lap time on both Nurb and Kyoto by more than half a second. And that was only after a handful of laps. My best potential lap in Nurb was over a second quicker. Car setup has a lot to do with it I think.

 

[Mr P]

Hi Ron,

try the Viper GT4. Countersteer assist doesn't help me to improve my laptimes in the GT-R also, I can't see and feel any difference at all. But in the Viper I found a second using this assist. No placebo, but reproducible.

cheers,
D.

I already run the Viper with countersteer and down to 1'42.2 so will try it without tomorrow and share both replays 👍

Counter steer assist improved my lap time on both Nurb and Kyoto by more than half a second. Car setup has a lot to do with it I think.

Yes set up makes a difference but both these replays have identical car settings , only the countersteer assist on or off is different 👍

 

[PzR Slim]

Yes set up makes a difference but both these replays have identical car settings , only the countersteer assist on or off is different 👍

You misunderstand, I think counter steer assist is more of a benefit to certain types of tunes. Maybe it’s not as much a benefit to your tune as it is to others. For example my tunes are quite oversteery on corner exit. With countersteer assist I can nail the throttle and not worry too much about corner exit.

 

[Mr P]

You misunderstand, I think counter steer assist is more of a benefit to certain types of tunes. Maybe it’s not as much a benefit to your tune as it is to others. For example my tunes are quite oversteery on corner exit. With countersteer assist I can nail the throttle and not worry too much about corner exit.

Sorry.. I took it wrong, I get you now 👍 I will try the Viper tomorrow and see if there is any bigger difference in laptimes there


edit: tracks have changed so will do it on another track with the Viper

 

[DakotaXIII]

I already run the Viper with countersteer and down to 1'42.2 so will try it without tomorrow and share both replays 👍



Yes set up makes a difference but both these replays have identical car settings , only the countersteer assist on or off is different 👍

Do you mind sharing your Viper set up mate?

Only managed a 44.1 so far after hundreds of laps at Kyoto.

 

[Mr P]

Do you mind sharing your Viper set up mate?

Only managed a 44.1 so far after hundreds of laps at Kyoto.

Should be at the end of this video...


Good luck with it 👍


Edit: not on the video I just checked, here it is...

Brakes 1
RH - 82 / 90
NF - 2.80 / 2.80
ARB - 9 / 7
DRC - 55 / 55
DRR - 85 / 85
CAM - 1.6 / 1.9
TOE - out 0.25 / in 0.25
Downforce - 250 / 520
LSD - 5 / 14 / 5

Set max speed to 168mph / 270kmh
Set final gear to 3.932

 

[DakotaXIII]

Should be at the end of this video...


Good luck with it 👍


Edit: not on the video I just checked, here it is...

Brakes 1
RH - 82 / 90
NF - 2.80 / 2.80
ARB - 9 / 7
DRC - 55 / 55
DRR - 85 / 85
CAM - 1.6 / 1.9
TOE - out 0.25 / in 0.25
Downforce - 250 / 520
LSD - 5 / 14 / 5

Set max speed to 168mph / 270kmh
Set final gear to 3.932

Thanks! We're pretty similar apart from the gearing. Is there a reason you change final gear and not just change the auto top speed?

 

[PJTierney]

Can you do the same test comparing ABS Off/Mild/Strong?

I’m on a DS4 and can’t feel the brakes as well as I can in Forza (Xbox controllers have haptic triggers) so I’m using ABS Mild at the moment, and am wondering if putting in the effort to get good with ABS off can pay off.

 

[Guffaluff]

Great work man, you're fast! And I was happy breaking down to sub- 1'48 last night in my Mazda . Got a long way to go!

 

[PzR Slim]

Sorry.. I took it wrong, I get you now 👍 I will try the Viper tomorrow and see if there is any bigger difference in laptimes there


edit: tracks have changed so will do it on another track with the Viper

The Suzuka race looks to be default setup so we can't really check if setups make a difference. Haven't checked the others.

 

[ROCKET JOE]

Good job Mr P, on that highly discussed assist 👍.

First of all I want to apologise for discussing on that matter, posting statements etc.
with only knowing from hearsay instead of own testing - I probably shouldn't have done so.

Did the same test you did ( GT-R at Kyoto ) with the same results. Except ...
I'm on a 42.2, 0.7 slower than you .
The benefit I found was feeling more confident and being more consistent ( on a DS4 ... and I
still prefer being consistent from skill ).
Without having tested this I can imagine that the benefit varies with different tracks, cars and
car setups, like @PzR Slim mentioned.

Time ... and tests like yours ... will tell 👍.

 

[Stotty]

Good work Ron 👍

I had a quick go with steering assist and, like you, didn't find much time difference with on or off using the GTR at Kyoto.

I did notice it was triggering the traction control light a lot of the time, but without the severe cuts in power TC gives... so it might be a more effective form of TC than using straight TC.

 

[Mr P]

Thanks for the comments guys! will try some with and without tests tonight on the new events 👍

Good job Mr P, on that highly discussed assist 👍.

First of all I want to apologise for discussing on that matter, posting statements etc.
with only knowing from hearsay instead of own testing - I probably shouldn't have done so.

Did the same test you did ( GT-R at Kyoto ) with the same results. Except ...
I'm on a 42.2, 0.7 slower than you .
The benefit I found was feeling more confident and being more consistent ( on a DS4 ... and I
still prefer being consistent from skill ).
Without having tested this I can imagine that the benefit varies with different tracks, cars and
car setups, like @PzR Slim mentioned.

Time ... and tests like yours ... will tell 👍.

Cheers Joe! No apology needed mate Keep pushing! those extra tenths will come with confidence for sure 👍

Good work Ron 👍

I had a quick go with steering assist and, like you, didn't find much time difference with on or off using the GTR at Kyoto.

I did notice it was triggering the traction control light a lot of the time, but without the severe cuts in power TC gives... so it might be a more effective form of TC than using straight TC.

Good to see you Chris I noticed this also the tcs flicker even when not enabled? The game will take a few updates to iron out all the creases methinks

 

[Stotty]

Ron,

Try the test again with a stock Porsche RSR at Suzuka (RH). Was running the online race last night with AS off, and tried it on 'strong' for the last one, after running 3 with it off.

The one race with it on was a bit scrappy to make solid conclusions. But 0.6s faster in qualifying in only a few laps.

Might not be easy to feel the minor traction advantage with a 4WD car. With RWD, it felt like a very effective traction control for my level of driver. It's not fool proof, so you can't just stamp on the gas, but like in gt6, I think it does broaden the margin for error a tiny amount. Also makes snap slides easier to catch in my brief go.

It gave more protection than TC at one (better with no TC than 1 anyway), and more freedom than TC at two.

Didn't seem to affect FF feel though.

 

[Mr P]

Yeah sure Chris will defo try them both tonight, I actually tried the Genesis and the Porsche with no countersteer at Suzuka this morning when it was released but only a few laps.. will try again in the next hour or so and try with and without countersteer and post back here what I find 👍

 

[Baron Blitz Red]

Just have to ask... Is there any difference between the Counter steer aid in GTSport and the Assisted Steering aid in GT6??? I never did the one in GT6, but it was certainly popular in the Seasonal Super Laps, as quite a few in the top 250 used it ALL the time.

Cheers

 

[Shottah072]

I came to same conclusion when i tested it for myself yesterday. Did not gain me time. But i could definetly feel the assist workin coming out of corners. It felt very weird to me and almost entirely eliminated the need to countersteer, like ever. Made the cars easier to drive as it artificially prevents the car reaching or going over the limit but the effect scrubs off your speed. Inexperienced wheel drivers might gain some pace short term but experienced wheel drivers who know how to countersteer and drive on the limit will lose some. I turned it back off, would have done so even if it did gain me some cause driving with it felt so unnatural to me.

 

[Mr P]

Just have to ask... Is there any difference between the Counter steer aid in GTSport and the Assisted Steering aid in GT6??? I never did the one in GT6, but it was certainly popular in the Seasonal Super Laps, as quite a few in the top 250 used it ALL the time.

Cheers

I think they are basically the same function but not as overall advantageous as it was in GT6.. In the case of the GT-R the difference is pretty minimal, Time will tell and more testing on the other drive-trains to get a more solid answer tbh

 

[Mr P]

Well it seems the races are Daily now, I missed my chance to try Suzuka.. they were there then I slept for a couple of hours and now they are gone

Will try on something else if it stays long enough 👍

 

[Stotty]

Could just run it in arcade, Ron.

I came to same conclusion when i tested it for myself yesterday. Did not gain me time. But i could definetly feel the assist workin coming out of corners. It felt very weird to me and almost entirely eliminated the need to countersteer, like ever. Made the cars easier to drive as it artificially prevents the car reaching or going over the limit but the effect scrubs off your speed. Inexperienced wheel drivers might gain some pace short term but experienced wheel drivers who know how to countersteer and drive on the limit will lose some. I turned it back off, would have done so even if it did gain me some cause driving with it felt so unnatural to me.

I don't know about this...

I'm pretty experienced (had all versions of GT, and a wheel for the past 10 years), and although I'm no alien, I've always been able to hold my own racing and time trialing at the highest level... and I was quicker in GT6 using active steering (AS).

I never thought AS increased grip in GT6, more that it made it easier to get closer to the maximum grip available. Counter steer assist (CSA) in GTS feels similar to me based on one qualifying session and one race last night - I felt I could use more throttle on corner exits without fear of oversteer/losing traction.

The amount of throttle you can use on exits is inversely proportional to the amount of lock you have applied - less lock allows more gas, and vice versa. CSA feels like it allows you to use more gas for the same amount of lock applied than you'd be able to use without it.

So it won't make an alien faster, but for anyone else it should.

 

[Mr P]

Running the N300 Audi TT @ Alsace at the moment and hoping to test that with and without assists.. will update in here but I'm already in 2nd place after about a dozen laps without using assists so hopefully when I try with countersteer on it might take a heap off.. probably too early in the event to see a proper fast lap also but will give it a good thrashing as the day progresses anyway 👍


Will update this post later with a countersteer lap and hopefully update the one above too

 

[Shottah072]

Could just run it in arcade, Ron.



I don't know about this...

I'm pretty experienced (had all versions of GT, and a wheel for the past 10 years), and although I'm no alien, I've always been able to hold my own racing and time trialing at the highest level... and I was quicker in GT6 using active steering (AS).

I never thought AS increased grip in GT6, more that it made it easier to get closer to the maximum grip available. Counter steer assist (CSA) in GTS feels similar to me based on one qualifying session and one race last night - I felt I could use more throttle on corner exits without fear of oversteer/losing traction.

The amount of throttle you can use on exits is inversely proportional to the amount of lock you have applied - less lock allows more gas, and vice versa. CSA feels like it allows you to use more gas for the same amount of lock applied than you'd be able to use without it.

So it won't make an alien faster, but for anyone else it should.

Have u played any other racing sim's without assist those past 10 years ? I ask because i feel that if you do then that fake gimmicky effect of the CSA is really off putting. Maybe if u dont play other sims and have been running CSA in previous GT's u got used to that unnatural way of driving and then after a while the time could be gained.

 

[Stotty]

Have u played any other racing sim's without assist those past 10 years ? I ask because i feel that if you do then that fake gimmicky effect of the CSA is really off putting. Maybe if u dont play other sims and have been running CSA in previous GT's u got used to that unnatural way of driving and then after a while the time could be gained.

I have platinum in AC.

 

[Shottah072]

I have platinum in AC.

I play AC on PC so dont know what getting platinum actually involves but it probably means u have played it a good amount. Dont u find the difference in having to actually countersteer in AC and not have that in GT really weird then ?

 

[Stotty]

I play AC on PC so dont know what getting platinum actually involves but it probably means u have played it a good amount. Dont u find the difference in having to actually countersteer in AC and not have that in GT really weird then ?

Platinum involves all the hotlap and race challenges, plus all the career mode... and requires you to gold all of those events.

Counter steer assist (CSA) doesn't stop you needing to countersteer... you can't just stamp on the throttle without fear of the car spinning.

IME/IMO, CSA just increases the level of throttle you can apply whilst still having steering angle applied... it acts like a very subtle traction control/stability control on rear wheel drive cars.

 

[Shottah072]

Platinum involves all the hotlap and race challenges, plus all the career mode... and requires you to gold all of those events.

Counter steer assist (CSA) doesn't stop you needing to countersteer... you can't just stamp on the throttle without fear of the car spinning.

IME/IMO, CSA just increases the level of throttle you can apply whilst still having steering angle applied... it acts like a very subtle traction control/stability control on rear wheel drive cars.

I disagree, its not subtle at all i felt immediately something very strange going on. I havent played any of the career in AC but i have been playing almost every sim out there for the last 8 years, always without assist. To me the CSA effect felt real weird and not subtle at all.