A point I'd like to raise about Car Sounds.

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haythem09

haythem09

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haythem09
First off, I don't think I need to tell you in general GT's car sounds are bad, but a point I would like to bring up are the exhausts. Now I don't know how many sounds have been re-used in GT6, so I don't know how many sounds there are in total. But put it this way:

Let's just say there are 1200 cars in GT6
There are 4 exhaust options (Stock, Sport, Semi-Racing, Racing)

1200x4 = 4800 car sounds. Now obviously that's not the real number, as many are re-used, and there are cars which you cannot change the exhaust (Race-Cars with racing exhausts)

But the point I'm trying to make is how on earth do PD think they are going to make even semi-decent car sounds, with this many variables? What's the apparent update gonna do? Change the stock sounds? Sport sounds? Semi-Racing sounds? Racing sounds? If I use racing exhaust when they only fixed the stock sounds, will it render the apparent update useless?

While they aren't going to, I really hope PD see this. The end message is: In GT7, or any future GT game, keep it simple, I'd rather have one good, accurate car sound per car, than 4 terrible sounds per car. Just have exhausts leave the sound unchanged, or just enhance the current sound with some effects. But DON'T create an entirely new sound for a certain exhaust.
 
Hnope, they've bypassed that issue entirely, in my reading of things.

By feeding a procedural system the relevant parameters, you can make really subtle changes to the exhaust and intake tracts, and the system will reflect that fairly accurately (depending on how well it's approximated, as it can only be approximated.)

That means you can have practically unlimited numbers of exhausts per car, but I expect PD will pre-tune it all and offer presets like we currently have (only currently in the form of processed recordings). For PS4, perhaps we'll get a more full-featured editing system. :dopey:
 
Its really not that hard to record most cars in the flesh.

PD should just make a list of cars they want to record and have a public call out for people to register and show up on the day with a particular car. A mic if fitted inside the cabin, on the outside of the car, and some equipment on the road. The owners of the cars then do a drive-by in a street or tunnel one by one and they take recordings to use as a basis.

Im sure they would get a lot of people turning up to do drive bys. If they do a few meetings in Japan and the US alone they will get hundreds of sounds in a few days worth of work.

If PD take advantage of the community many people would jump at the chance to to have their car recorded for no cost at all and PD would not need to rent out all the cars.
 
xSNAKEx
Its really not that hard to record most cars in the flesh.

PD should just make a list of cars they want to record and have a public call out for people to register and show up on the day with a particular car. A mic if fitted inside the cabin, on the outside of the car, and some equipment on the road. The owners of the cars then do a drive-by in a street or tunnel one by one and they take recordings to use as a basis.

Im sure they would get a lot of people turning up to do drive bys. If they do a few meetings in Japan and the US alone they will get hundreds of sounds in a few days worth of work.

If PD take advantage of the community many people would jump at the chance to to have their car recorded for no cost at all and PD would not need to rent out all the cars.
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Where are you storing all the samples?
 
xSNAKEx
Its really not that hard to record most cars in the flesh.

PD should just make a list of cars they want to record and have a public call out for people to register and show up on the day with a particular car. A mic if fitted inside the cabin, on the outside of the car, and some equipment on the road. The owners of the cars then do a drive-by in a street or tunnel one by one and they take recordings to use as a basis.

Im sure they would get a lot of people turning up to do drive bys. If they do a few meetings in Japan and the US alone they will get hundreds of sounds in a few days worth of work.

If PD take advantage of the community many people would jump at the chance to to have their car recorded for no cost at all and PD would not need to rent out all the cars.
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Now that is truly a great idea! It'll never happen though because of PD's poor interaction with the community. Maybe it's something Slightly Mad Studios would do.
 
Your math is a bit flawed, there aren't 1200 unique cars/engines in the game so it isn't 1200x4. Eliminate the duplicate Miata's, Skylines, etc. because like models could share the same engine/exhaust sounds. Take further into account that different models of cars from the same manufacturer could share the same engine or have very similar engines, that's even fewer unique sounds they would need. Not much difference in sound between a Civic and an Integra, for example.

I have no comment on the validity of your overall point. But the car sounds in GT6 are surely crap and probably worse than GT5. Every car seems to share the same basic engine/exhaust sound but have different effects/pitch applied to them in an attempt to make them sound unique. Maybe it's difficult to produce accurate car sounds but surely they could have done better than this. It's inexcusable to claim the title of "real driving simulator" and come up so short on such a critical element.
 
I wanted there to be some changes to sounds like the induction sound when you put on a cold air intake. I have an s2000 with a K&N FIPK intake and would love for it to be duplicated in a game. But there are far more immediate problems than tuning sounds to be addressed...
 
What I hope they would do when or if this new sound update is released, is that they really have a better sound for inside view. Not in the sense of what the exhaust sounds like, but more of how the car would properly sound if you were inside the car. Because right now, it's quite far off.
 
The thing is is that it's not that hard to make car sounds. I don't car if all the lambroghinis have the same sound, just as long as it's a good, legit sound.

BrandonW77
Your math is a bit flawed, there aren't 1200 unique cars/engines in the game so it isn't 1200x4. Eliminate the duplicate Miata's, Skylines, etc. because like models could share the same engine/exhaust sounds. Take further into account that different models of cars from the same manufacturer could share the same engine or have very similar engines, that's even fewer unique sounds they would need. Not much difference in sound between a Civic and an Integra, for example.
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Heck, there's not much difference between a Toyota 86gt and a corvette.
 
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haythem09
Stop there. If you read it properly, you'd know I know, and you'd know that's not even my point.
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I took that as meaning the engine samples are reused for different cars in the game, not that real engines are shared by more than one real car. Apologies.
 
So how many cars do you need to record in order to capture the differences in the engine tuning stages, the turbo options, the superchargers, the intake and exhaust manifolds as well as the exhaust parts? What about combinations?

4 exhausts
2 exhaust manifolds
2 catalysts
2 intake manifolds (missing the three intake filter parts from GT5)
4 engine stages (probably more hidden in the code, as in GT5)
5 (max) forced induction options (more in the code)

4 * 2 * 2 * 2 * 4 * 5 = 640

That's a few combinations, per car. Granted that's the worst case scenario, but most cars would have around 100 - 200 combinations.

What's fun is that you can have an automated system spit those out for you by feeding it the parameters pertinent to sound generation that change with each modification. Some of it could even be accounted for in real time with PD's new method, meaning you don't have to store 640 presets, maybe only a fraction of that (e.g. the engine stages and forced induction only: 20 presets per car, maximum).


Now for the big questions: is this level of responsiveness in the tuned sounds a) desired b) necessary. Those are two separate questions, please do not conflate them.

In my opinion, they sure are desired. For some of those modifications, a response in the sound probably isn't strictly "necessary" - but it would be pretty cool nonetheless.
When you're relying on samples, it's very easy to say none of it is necessary, but when it's naturally accounted for in your synthesis method...
 
xSNAKEx
If PD take advantage of the community many people would jump at the chance to to have their car recorded for no cost at all and PD would not need to rent out all the cars.
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I have preached this for a while now. The community can make freeware or charge under licenses provided by PD. Look at how much time people spend on the photomode, and you'd think there would be just enough high quality replications if sounds/interiors/etc...

Hell, what PD need to do is get that NM2255, or whatever his name is, from youtube and record all of the sounds with him...
 
haythem09
Just have exhausts leave the sound unchanged, or just But DON'T create an entirely new sound for a certain exhaust.
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Err, no.

If I get stick a racing cam and exhaust on a Corvette, I want that thing to lope and then scream.
 
Why are people looking for problems? If PD improve the sounds in general, then great. If a car sounds good to start with then exhaust change would be done for a performance increase, it does not matter if PD can't/won't simulate the sounds of every in game car in stock form, and then with each different exhaust-air filter- manifold-combination ect.
Of course we want improvements if we take a 1.4L and give it a better performance, I am confident we will notice a difference, but big engines would suffice if they sound good to start with.
There will be variables. As has been said they will probably implement a sound solution in the same way they claim to simulate atmospheric conditions, tyres, suspension ect, a programme using mathematics to adjust simulated sound outputs rather than a physical library of each and every possible engine and tune shop combination.
Once we get decent sounds in general then they can really attack the difference made by adding and removing parts. Lets not try running before we can walk. It will be good.
 
If they had all this time to model them, they sure as hell had the time to make them sound decent
 
I'd like to hear some recordings of GTP members, driving around with a microphone recording the sounds.
My guess, is that it will sound like most people actually do drive vacuums.

How many of you can prove me wrong?
 
jimipitbull
I'd like to hear some recordings of GTP members, driving around with a microphone recording the sounds.
My guess, is that it will sound like most people actually do drive vacuums.

How many of you can prove me wrong?
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Here's a clip of my Camaro idling, doesn't sound like any vacuum I've ever heard.

This is what a high performance v8 sounds like!!!

 
montez34
Here's a clip of my Camaro idling, doesn't sound like any vacuum I've ever heard.

This is what a high performance v8 sounds like!!!

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Fair enough, my WB holden (4.2 V8) has a similar note. On the other hand, my Mazda Tribute (3.0 V6) which I drive daily makes very little sound, especially at idle.

I would expect most people don't drive a V8 though, especially outside of North America and Australia.

I'm not trying to defend or excuse GT6 sounds here either, I just think it would be interesting to see what people record of their own vehicles. If those vehicles are in GT6, we can then compare.
 
jimipitbull
Fair enough, my WB holden (4.2 V8) has a similar note. On the other hand, my Mazda Tribute (3.0 V6) which I drive daily makes very little sound, especially at idle.

I would expect most people don't drive a V8 though, especially outside of North America and Australia.

I'm not trying to defend or excuse GT6 sounds here either, I just think it would be interesting to see what people record of their own vehicles. If those vehicles are in GT6, we can then compare.
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My Camaro is in GT6 and it's acceptable with stock exhaust but turns into a Skyline with racing exhaust. My real car has GM Performance 350 crate motor with a high lift cam, it makes about 375hp and 425tq
 
I honestly feel that the sounds are what they are. My ZDX is dead silent except when passing or climbing but my Miata is a noisy little devil, and when I'm focused on pushing that car I can't even hear the air passing over and past the uninsulated hardtop. As for all Miatas sounding alike in real life, we've gotten a few different engines stateside and they all have a unique tone that can vary even more depending on wheter a stick or a slushbox is tacked onto the back of it, so I would hope that any [however unlikely] sweeping sound improvements wouldn't overlook that.
 
haythem09
While they aren't going to, I really hope PD see this. The end message is: In GT7, or any future GT game, keep it simple, I'd rather have one good, accurate car sound per car, than 4 terrible sounds per car. Just have exhausts leave the sound unchanged, or just enhance the current sound with some effects. But DON'T create an entirely new sound for a certain exhaust.
Click to expand...

I'd prefer to have different sounds for different exhausts. I mean, otherwise either the stock road cars are going to sound like monsters or the tuned cars are going to sound lame. Are the current sounds even a result of not having the time to produce great sounds? I think PD knows best what the cause is.
 
jimipitbull
I'd like to hear some recordings of GTP members, driving around with a microphone recording the sounds.
My guess, is that it will sound like most people actually do drive vacuums.

How many of you can prove me wrong?
Click to expand...

Well my 1.6L 16V VTEC EK Civic sounds not like a vaccum cleaner. While the EK9 Type R in GT6 does. And I can prove you if you want...
 
BrandonW77
Your math is a bit flawed, there aren't 1200 unique cars/engines in the game so it isn't 1200x4. Eliminate the duplicate Miata's, Skylines, etc. because like models could share the same engine/exhaust sounds. Take further into account that different models of cars from the same manufacturer could share the same engine or have very similar engines, that's even fewer unique sounds they would need. Not much difference in sound between a Civic and an Integra, for example.

I have no comment on the validity of your overall point. But the car sounds in GT6 are surely crap and probably worse than GT5. Every car seems to share the same basic engine/exhaust sound but have different effects/pitch applied to them in an attempt to make them sound unique. Maybe it's difficult to produce accurate car sounds but surely they could have done better than this. It's inexcusable to claim the title of "real driving simulator" and come up so short on such a critical element.
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Hear hear! 👍
 

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