A seasoned drifter learns something disturbing...

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vinkento

vinkento

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It has come to pass that I've finally figured out that the drifts most of us have been performing... aren't nearly as spectacular as GT3 will allow. Infact, I believe that most of us aren't really drifting at all. (yes that includes you SIM drifters). Ask yourself this question: How many of you during your drift can keep the exact same line throughout the drift as a natural occurance instead of forcing it that way? I'm referring to the longer turns. Now some of you are saying, "psha! that's easy on SIMS" Well ask yourself this question: Am I drifting, or am I driving with no traction? There is a difference. It might not make much sense... but try drifting this car, I would need a wheel and pedals to get it right... my analog won't allow me to truely drift with it.

Mazda RX-7 RS
Mods:
Full Suspension
Sports Brakes + Controller
Racing Muffler, Chip, Port Polish, Engine-ballencing
Racing Intercooler
Semi-Racing Tranny, Tripple Plate, Racing Flywheel, Full LSD, Driveshaft
Tires Front: Normal, Back: SIMS

Settings:
Springs: 20,20
Ride Height: 89,89
Shocks: all 10
Camber: 0,0
Toe: 0,0
Stabs: 1,1
Brakes: 1,1
LSD: 5,5,5
ASM,TCS: 0
 
It's hard for even myself to understand...... try this. Go into your replays and play them from inside the car, now listen to the squeels of your tires in your drifts, tell me, does that sound like the tires are doing what they're supposed to? The back tires during a drift spin for a reason, to push the car into the turn... The front tires are simply to guide the motion of the car. As a matter of fact, this is what I'm trying to get at... The front tires in our drifts aren't doing what they're supposed to. I don't think we're drifting, but I don't think we're power sliding either, I think we're simply forcing a car sideways around the turn and it gives the image of drifting.
 
I am so confused my toes are playing the star wars theme. I´m gonna test the car out for now..
 
Oh it's hard to explain... I don't believe drifting is about angle, or smoke, or simply being sideways... I think the basic rule that makes a drift a drift is that... how can I say this... Ok, a grip racer's going into a turn, that racer has only so much power he can put in until his back tires give way of traction and he loses control. A real drifter by deffinition of what I'm trying to say goes into the same corner. Because he's drifting instead of gripping, he escapes the limit of power he can use by using the back tires to push himself into to the turn as where the gripper is using them to push him out. The front tires act as a guide in both senarios.
I got it! Drifting relies on the basic principles that a satellite does orbitting around the earth. A satallite has to maintain a certainspeed so that when gravity pulls it in, the sattelite can fall around the curve of the earth instead of smashing straight in. A grip turn is much like rides at a roller coaster, you know where you just go in circles? Kind of like a rock tied to the end of a string. Drifting is controlled as where the force applied isn't from inside, but outside, allowing a more direct conversion of speed to distance... see what I'm saying?
 
alright I totally don't get it.. I understand your comparison.. although with drifting there is no gravitational force countering inertia.. but I still don't get how that partains to not drifting..

If we can do better.. release a vid so we can figure out what the heck you mean.. :lol:
 
Originally posted by Seito4Counter
alright I totally don't get it.. I understand your comparison.. although with drifting there is no gravitational force countering inertia.. but I still don't get how that partains to not drifting..

If we can do better.. release a vid so we can figure out what the heck you mean.. :lol:
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I'm working on it... but I need to either completely change the way I drive in GT3 with the analog some how, or buy a wheel first.
 
Originally posted by vinkento
Oh it's hard to explain... I don't believe drifting is about angle, or smoke, or simply being sideways... I think the basic rule that makes a drift a drift is that... how can I say this... Ok, a grip racer's going into a turn, that racer has only so much power he can put in until his back tires give way of traction and he loses control. A real drifter by deffinition of what I'm trying to say goes into the same corner. Because he's drifting instead of gripping, he escapes the limit of power he can use by using the back tires to push himself into to the turn as where the gripper is using them to push him out. The front tires act as a guide in both senarios.
I got it! Drifting relies on the basic principles that a satellite does orbitting around the earth. A satallite has to maintain a certainspeed so that when gravity pulls it in, the sattelite can fall around the curve of the earth instead of smashing straight in. A grip turn is much like rides at a roller coaster, you know where you just go in circles? Kind of like a rock tied to the end of a string. Drifting is controlled as where the force applied isn't from inside, but outside, allowing a more direct conversion of speed to distance... see what I'm saying?
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Well if grip driving is a satellite going around the earth, then drifting is the same satellite going around the moon with a little rocket to help it around, given that the force of the rocket plus the force of the gravity of the moon is still less then the force of the gravity of the earth. These forces represent the friction force of the tires. With grip the turning force is entirely perpendicular to the tires (neglecting tangential acceleration) when drifting it is not since the car not parallel to the turn. The engine must apply a force through the tires friction to push in the direction the car is pointing (kinda like the little rocket). Plus the friction force that is perpendicular to the tires (this is slowing down your sideways velocity) so you add these 2 forces together and you get 1 force that is less then the grip force but pointing in, more or less, the same direction, which is to the center of the circle. Anyways, what we do is still exhibition drifting though; I don’t see where the difference is between what we do and what the D1 guys do. If you are talking about race drifting with very small slip angles then that is a whole other thread.
 
Originally posted by TruenoAE86
Well if grip driving is a satellite going around the earth, then drifting is the same satellite going around the moon with a little rocket to help it around, given that the force of the rocket plus the force of the gravity of the moon is still less then the force of the gravity of the earth. These forces represent the friction force of the tires. With grip the turning force is entirely perpendicular to the tires (neglecting tangential acceleration) when drifting it is not since the car not parallel to the turn. The engine must apply a force through the tires friction to push in the direction the car is pointing (kinda like the little rocket). Plus the friction force that is perpendicular to the tires (this is slowing down your sideways velocity) so you add these 2 forces together and you get 1 force that is less then the grip force but pointing in, more or less, the same direction, which is to the center of the circle. Anyways, what we do is still exhibition drifting though; I don’t see where the difference is between what we do and what the D1 guys do. If you are talking about race drifting with very small slip angles then that is a whole other thread.
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Oh my god, I'm back in advanced physics. Oh wait, I am a mathmatician arent I? I should make a formula for this to greater simplify things, although, I may just confuse people even more. I'll get on that.



Semper Fidelis
Shadow Drifter
 
TruenoAE86, you misread that post apparently. I said a gripper is like a rock tied to the end of a string spinning around, drifting is like the sattalite.
 
Maybe I'm tired of the way we're drifting, I don't know... I guess somewhere in my mind there's something that sais we can make a drift much cleaner and quite more spectacular than the ones we have been showing.
 
Originally posted by vinkento
TruenoAE86, you misread that post apparently. I said a gripper is like a rock tied to the end of a string spinning around, drifting is like the sattalite.
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They're the same thing. In the first instance, the string is pulling inward and the rock is pulling outward. In the second, gravity is pulling inward and the satellite is pulling outward.

I understand your point about drifting, I think this analogy can be drawn in many places as all things are relative. That being said, the only way to truly improve your drifting ability is to improve yourself in some way (even if it isn't related to drifting, you will still be better).

I think what your saying ultimately boils down to weight transfer. The thing that most drifters on this forum lack is weight transfer.
Try driving the FC on my settings page and you will understand what I mean:
http://pergatory.net/gt3/settings.html#fc3s
This car cannot glide or slide, it must be drifted in the truest sense. By using weight transfer to your advantage, you not only drift the corner, but you must take the correct race line which gives you that sort of satellite feel that you referenced earlier.
 
Originally posted by vinkento
Oh it's hard to explain... I don't believe drifting is about angle, or smoke, or simply being sideways... I think the basic rule that makes a drift a drift is that... how can I say this... Ok, a grip racer's going into a turn, that racer has only so much power he can put in until his back tires give way of traction and he loses control. A real drifter by deffinition of what I'm trying to say goes into the same corner. Because he's drifting instead of gripping, he escapes the limit of power he can use by using the back tires to push himself into to the turn as where the gripper is using them to push him out. The front tires act as a guide in both senarios.
I got it! Drifting relies on the basic principles that a satellite does orbitting around the earth. A satallite has to maintain a certainspeed so that when gravity pulls it in, the sattelite can fall around the curve of the earth instead of smashing straight in. A grip turn is much like rides at a roller coaster, you know where you just go in circles? Kind of like a rock tied to the end of a string. Drifting is controlled as where the force applied isn't from inside, but outside, allowing a more direct conversion of speed to distance... see what I'm saying?
Click to expand...

You're talking about the escape velocity: the speed in which helps keep the object rotating around another bigger object so that it will not hit the object it's rotating around when the object goes slower and not fly out into space if the object goes faster. I think you're trying to get at the centripetal force, the force that keeps the moon rotating around the earth.

I don't know how this is related to drifting yet because I'm trying to do math homework now during lunch and type this reply up lol :p


I'm in physics right now :D
 
Originally posted by Thio
You're talking about the escape velocity: the speed in which helps keep the object rotating around another bigger object so that it will not hit the object it's rotating around when the object goes slower and not fly out into space if the object goes faster. I think you're trying to get at the centripetal force, the force that keeps the moon rotating around the earth.

I don't know how this is related to drifting yet because I'm trying to do math homework now during lunch and type this reply up lol :p


I'm in physics right now :D
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I believe the analogy, as Trueno86 pointed out, is referring to the balance between your throttle accelerating the car forward and out at any given point in time (because forward is a straight line, not a curve) and the friction of the tires pulling you toward the center of the corner. (The tires are not literally pulling you in but they are resisting the force of you pushing away which is essentially the same thing.)

The same could be said of any two forces being balanced to produce a curved vector (path of motion) around a focal point or apex.
 
You guys are going WAAAAAY to deep into this. Drifting is simply a controlled slide through a series of turns. That's ALL the explination we need.

I have also come to the conclusion that Vink is on ****ing crack. I mean come on, it's like saying, "I eat the brownie, but am I really digesting it? I think we've all just been eating brownies and they just fall out of our ass. We don't really digest them."
 
I think Perg and Bengee have some good points. However, Battle is right, Vink, you are on crack. I have worked very hard to understand the real life techniques, and settings that help a car to drift. I know that what I am doing, in GT3, is a real drift. I use dynamic drifting, more than anything else, so I am not merely using my power to push out the rear end, and keep overpowering it to keep the slide going. I think that if you are having problems with defining drifting, in GT3, than you either don't understand the techniques, or the cheese has just slid off your cracker.......................;)
 
I never said anything but i dont get what he was saying. lol

I was going to say something but really what is the point...
 
Originally posted by bengee
I never said anything but i dont get what he was saying. lol

I was going to say something but really what is the point...
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Oh, my bad, I meant Perg and Thio. ;)
 
I think Perg and Bengee have some good points. However, Battle is right, Vink, you are on crack.
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EVERYTIME! Shouldn't I have some kind of special status or a statue in my name or something? Idk, just throwing ideas in the air here.
 
Originally posted by battle_stage
EVERYTIME! Shouldn't I have some kind of special status or a statue in my name or something? Idk, just throwing ideas in the air here.
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Don't get too cocky, Don, I just agreed that it sounds like he's been hittin' the crack pipe a little much........Ok, fine..........here's another dime.;)
 
Originally posted by silviadrifter
Don't get too cocky, Don, I just agreed that it sounds like he's been hittin' the crack pipe a little much........Ok, fine..........here's another dime.;)
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Looks whos talking WEEDDRIFTER..:bowdown:
 

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