A-Spec Conditioning? Why People Can't Make it Through the First Two Turns Cleanly?

  • Thread starter Thread starter SS_1182
  • 67 comments
  • 5,543 views
Messages
1,173
Messages
user27564
I really, really don't get it, well actually I think I do get it, but I'll get to that in a second. I'm serious here, you all know who you are. I'm speaking to all of you 1st lap, 1st corner-hooligans who just destroy any kind of enjoyment for a grid of other racers. What is it about this situation that you can't use two brain cells and realize that a race is not won on the 1st or 2nd corner of the of the race through driving obnoxiously, mainly using other people as guard rails? Is it because you're so used to racing against the AI in ridiculously overpowered cars? Are you just too used to knocking them off the road on your way to getting your next gold trophy as soon as possible, taking a 10 second lead by the 3rd turn in your car that outmatches them by 300hp? Has A-Spec conditioned you this way, to be so inconsiderate, so mindless?

I tried and failed in every room and race tonight to find a group of drivers who could make it through the first two turns, much less the first LAP, with clean driving. I'm talking about five different rooms, all different drivers. Sure, one race was with F1 cars, but it was on Suzuka. There is PLENTY of room on that track to allow for clean driving with even the slightest hint of consideration for any of the other participants.


I just finished out my night with a race on the Indy Road Course. There's a recipe for destruction right there... everyone hits 180mph at the start of the race and has to slow down to make the first turn = disaster. I was in the lead on the first turn, got plowed as expected because I took the first corner at an appropriate speed, but I managed to hold onto it through turn one despite at least 10 other drivers' best efforts to include me in their demolition derby. I get to the very next turn (1 second later?), I get plowed right into the sand, oh and by the same guy I saw leading the pack in destroying my bumper on the first turn. This was not a RUB either. I'm talking about serious impact. Oh but that was still okay because guess where all of the other fine drivers were, back BEHIND me in the sand still recovering, you know, just trying to get their cars to face in the correct direction again.


So I drive as clean as I can for the rest of the race, people fly off the track here and there and I get back into 2nd place before the last lap. I have no shot at 1st by then since the first place driver managed to escape the carnage from earlier and cut through from the back (half the battle of online racing? sad), and I'm just trying to keep it clean and hold onto 2nd. So I get to the hairpin on that track and guess what, I get plowed right off into the grass again by the same guy who hit me 2 times earlier. I make the comment, "Man if you hit me one more time..." And he replies, "Come on man, it's the last lap." To which I reply, "And what does that mean, it's a license for you to drive dirty and throw me off the track?" No reply. Turns out the driver was the host. I said nothing more, took my 3rd place and left as soon as the lobby reloaded.



- It's A-Spec's fault, I know it, well that's my theory. The problem here is that A-Spec doesn't really teach people how to RACE, nor do license tests for that matter. It teaches them how to drive like neanderthals clubbing their way toward their next gold trophy and prize car. Strict penalties in A-Spec events, including the enforcement of 2 tires on, AND more importantly having a significant clean race bonus could really do a lot to improve the quality of driving out there among the interwebs. I remember way back in the days of my first Need For Speed game when it was a big deal to finish the race with the clean driving bonus because it paid off. Think about what that could do for these pickle heads ruining any chance for a lot of other people to have and enjoyable racing experience.
 
Last edited:
Really surprising. Sorry, but heard this all before (about 10 times actually). Public lobbies are not the place to find clean racing. Check out the online racing section here and find a good group, its a totally different game.
 
Actually, there's many different License and Special Events that are VERY contact sensitive. Anything more than the slightest of love tap (like you'll see in most racing, if the truth be told) and you get booted back to the start!

I agree, I have never seen the logic of this, when as soon as you start A-Spec, you can then barge around at ANY strength without penalty.

But, I believe you can start an online lobby, and set contact, track cutting and full damage on as mandatory, and as long as you can find enough players willing to race under those conditions, you should be good to go.

But, be careful what you wish for! Expecting NO contact at all doesn't even reflect racing IRL. Daytona 24 was crazy, yesterday! BTTC is mad! And talk to Vettel and Webber about no contact in Istanbul! But the main thing is, with FULL damage on, barging around seldom benefits the barger the way a no damage race does. And that's the recipe for cooling things down, IMO
 
It is possible to find some good racing in public lobbies if you know what to look for. It's also important to build up your friends list with clean racers.
 
See, this is why online is a completely useless aspect of the game. But I guess it's a sign of the times. Kids these days buy games only for the online part.. just dicking around without really delving into the depth of the actual game. I stay away from it as far as possible.

Now get off my lawn... :)
 
I really, really don't get it, well actually I think I do get it, but I'll get to that in a second. I'm serious here, you all know who you are. I'm speaking to all of you 1st lap, 1st corner-hooligans who just destroy any kind of enjoyment for a grid of other racers. What is it about this situation that you can't use two brain cells and realize that a race is not won on the 1st or 2nd corner of the of the race through driving obnoxiously, mainly using other people as guard rails? Is it because you're so used to racing against the AI in ridiculously overpowered cars? Are you just too used to knocking them off the road on your way to getting your next gold trophy as soon as possible, taking a 10 second lead by the 3rd turn in your car that outmatches them by 300hp? Has A-Spec conditioned you this way, to be so inconsiderate, so mindless?

I tried and failed in every room and race tonight to find a group of drivers who could make it through the first two turns, much less the first LAP, with clean driving. I'm talking about five different rooms, all different drivers. Sure, one race was with F1 cars, but it was on Suzuka. There is PLENTY of room on that track to allow for clean driving with even the slightest hint of consideration for any of the other participants.


I just finished out my night with a race on the Indy Road Course. There's a recipe for destruction right there... everyone hits 180mph at the start of the race and has to slow down to make the first turn = disaster. I was in the lead on the first turn, got plowed as expected because I took the first corner at an appropriate speed, but I managed to hold onto it through turn one despite at least 10 other drivers' best efforts to include me in their demolition derby. I get to the very next turn (1 second later?), I get plowed right into the sand, oh and by the same guy I saw leading the pack in destroying my bumper on the first turn. This was not a RUB either. I'm talking about serious impact. Oh but that was still okay because guess where all of the other fine drivers were, back BEHIND me in the sand still recovering, you know, just trying to get their cars to face in the correct direction again.


So I drive as clean as I can for the rest of the race, people fly off the track here and there and I get back into 2nd place before the last lap. I have no shot at 1st by then since the first place driver managed to escape the carnage from earlier and cut through from the back (half the battle of online racing? sad), and I'm just trying to keep it clean and hold onto 2nd. So I get to the hairpin on that track and guess what, I get plowed right off into the grass again by the same guy who hit me 2 times earlier. I make the comment, "Man if you hit me one more time..." And he replies, "Come on man, it's the last lap." To which I reply, "And what does that mean, it's a license for you to drive dirty and throw me off the track?" No reply. Turns out the driver was the host. I said nothing more, took my 3rd place and left as soon as the lobby reloaded.



- It's A-Spec's fault, I know it, well that's my theory. The problem here is that A-Spec doesn't really teach people how to RACE, nor do license tests for that matter. It teaches them how to drive like neanderthals clubbing their way toward their next gold trophy and prize car. Strict penalties in A-Spec events, including the enforcement of 2 tires on, AND more importantly having a significant clean race bonus could really do a lot to improve the quality of driving out there among the interwebs. I remember way back in the days of my first Need For Speed game when it was a big deal to finish the race with the clean driving bonus because it paid off. Think about what that could do for these pickle heads ruining any chance for a lot of other people to have and enjoyable racing experience.

Pics or it didn't happen!:)
 
I'd say it's a question of experience. I race slot cars on a national and international level, and you get the exact same thing with inexperienced drivers. First corner pile-ups, and lots of them. But when I race for national or world championships, the first corner is clean every time.

Every inexperienced racer, no matter what kind of racing, is fighting nerves on the first lap. When I'm racing a field of inexperienced slot racers, I always let them take the lead off the starting line into the first corner. Then whoever survives the first corner carnage, pick them off one by one.

You're right, though. A-spec doesn't really smack that tendency out of them, and kind of rewards them for driving like maniacs.
 
I've noticed that heavy damage settings makes people think twice about hitting others but yeah, Online racing usually sucks because of lame drivers and, as good as a game GT5 is, it didn't find a way to avoid it.
 
But, I believe you can start an online lobby, and set contact, track cutting and full damage on as mandatory, and as long as you can find enough players willing to race under those conditions, you should be good to go.

But, be careful what you wish for! Expecting NO contact at all doesn't even reflect racing IRL. Daytona 24 was crazy, yesterday! BTTC is mad! And talk to Vettel and Webber about no contact in Istanbul! But the main thing is, with FULL damage on, barging around seldom benefits the barger the way a no damage race does. And that's the recipe for cooling things down, IMO
____________________________

Yes very much so. I found setting damage to heavy made a big difference in the way people drove. It stops people riding you and riding the rails. Deflects most noobs before they even bother to enter. Its like they think "oh I have to be able to drive here, no thanks". Then they leave, then I laugh!
 
Not a surprising or unique experience. Between mis-matched grids, crazy drivers, and hosts that never start races - online racing is a mess.

You're right about A-Spec being one of the problems:

no car limits - No real world race series lets you race with such a blatant advantage. SCCA Autocross has dozens of classes so that every car races against equal cars.

no penalties - A-Spec should run with the same penalties as license tests for races under 5 laps and a GT5:P sytle power cut off for races over 5 laps. I also like the idea of a Safety Rating like iRacing does. Go off track, hit another guy, etc and your rating goes down, pass a lot of people cleanly and it goes up.

Finally, the AI is the biggest cluprit - It just sucks, even when your car is equal. The AI has never been up to the task of driving on the limit and racing a player. Its been that way since GT 1. This means that players never get a chance to practice close competitive racing until they get online.

And last: Some players think the wrecking is fun and/or just how the game should be played. I once played a kid in GT4 in real life at the PS3 mobile gaming truck. I had beaten 2 or 3 people and he waited in a long line with maybe 15 or 20 people watching. He spins in the first corner at Laguna and I coasted the rest of the lap waiting for him to catch up so we could race. And to thank me for my sportsmanship he plowed into the back of me the next time we went into turn 1 with a bunch of people watching him do it, I didn't wait for him to get out of the dirt and catch up again.
 
I definitely agree with letting the bashers go ahead if you can't boot them. Generally, if they don't have the skill to avoid contact, they don't have the skill to avoid going off the course, either! Then it's a simple job to get out front and STAY out front.

Shift, I often would let the whole field go by, let them pile up in the first corner's kitty litter, and then drive past half the field laughing like a loon! Then just pick the rest off one at a time.

If Shift 2 adds these mandatory damage mode lobbies and full contact penalties, it is going to be a BLAST online! Much easier to set up races that are even than GT5, IMO. And Manufacturer Stock races, too. Why doesn't the 'ultimate' blah blah blah have even THAT?

But, back to the OP... watch any F1 this year? What race DIDN'T have a pileup on the first corner? :crazy: But at least there, with full damage, most of the bargers' race was OVER (or at least so far behind, it might as well have been), alas, usually with their victims. Now, if PD REALLY took itself seriously, they'd add a damage mode with immediate terminal damage. Not after a stock car's worth of banging!

That would sort out the men from the boys..!
 
On the flip side - how often have you screamed at the AI drivers in those license tests and special events when they have barged into you and got you disqualified?

I find that is my biggest bug bear - I totally agree that there should be a means of cleaning up the online game but PD would need to get the balance right so that innocent drivers are not penalised as they are for contact in other aspects of the game.
 
I've always felt that contact penalties should be weighted to the FRONT of the car... That's usually the business end of any flagrant rammer! Only time that shouldn't be is during braking zones, where if you brake too EARLY, you don't automatically catch the trailing car by surprise and penalize him for something that is at least as much YOUR fault as the trailing car.

To be honest, the game ought to know what are the theoretical fastest entry speeds that any corner can be made cleanly with any particular tire and car. At least to within 10% or so. Enter the corner MUCH faster than that, make contact, you should get the drive-through (LOVE drive-throughs... better than any engine cut penalty, IMO). Enter WAY too fast, on a mission, black flag...

Seems reasonable, no?!
 
- It's A-Spec's fault, I know it, well that's my theory. The problem here is that A-Spec doesn't really teach people how to RACE, nor do license tests for that matter. It teaches them how to drive like neanderthals clubbing their way toward their next gold trophy and prize car. Strict penalties in A-Spec events, including the enforcement of 2 tires on, AND more importantly having a significant clean race bonus could really do a lot to improve the quality of driving out there among the interwebs. I remember way back in the days of my first Need For Speed game when it was a big deal to finish the race with the clean driving bonus because it paid off. Think about what that could do for these pickle heads ruining any chance for a lot of other people to have and enjoyable racing experience.

👍 Yes, I agree with you; 100%. In fact this is something I've argued repeatedly to my group of friends. I think the whole concept with some of these events where you start at the back and have to pass 8 or 12 or 16 cars to win the race in 1~3 laps is a joke. It has nothing to do with real racing and it simply promotes the kind of barging through like a bull in a china shop behavior that's so prominent in online lobbies. The AI in most of these circumstances is not even there to race you. They're simply there to get in your way and make you lose. The AI should be driving as quickly as possible and that should be the challenge. Instead you have to treat them as hurdles to jump over in a sprint. At least during the license tests you get disqualified for hitting the other cars but the concept is the same. I thought the license tests were actually a good concept until the S tests where (1) you can't turn off skid recovery (WTH) and (2) you're required to do something that only promotes poor racing discipline.

I would like to see this changed as well but I think there's little chance of it happening until the AI is significantly improved.
 
On the flip side - how often have you screamed at the AI drivers in those license tests and special events when they have barged into you and got you disqualified? :mad:

I find that is my biggest bug bear - I totally agree that there should be a means of cleaning up the online game but PD would need to get the balance right so that innocent drivers are not penalised as they are for contact in other aspects of the game.

What she said 👍
 
Agree with everything so far, but not sure its entirely fair to blame A-spec. Although I agree it doesn't help to improve race craft and skills, I suspect this is a problem with all popular online racing games. Anyone played F1 2010 online? Absolute carnage.
 
Pics or it didn't happen!:)

HAvent you experience it? haven't you been on nurburgring and all this dirty racers aree so eager to get the 1st place that more than half the cars crash in the first corner? the other 50% crash on the upcoming corners. happens every time I race in nurburgring, most of the times I get rammed.
 
Needs to be more filters for Online - I'm sure everyone agrees with that.

Secondly, i think as 1 filter option you should be able to set a " licence filter " - Something like silver IA or silver special licence required to race in this room, or gold IA,IB,Special etc...

That is just one option, i believe it would filter out say some of the 'less serious' players who take more enjoyment out of causing a pileup than a clean tight race, each to their own but i dont believe someone with all golds in a particular licence class is gonna join my online room to play pinball..

It takes a bit of driving finesse to get all golds in the later licences and idiots aren't prepared to spend time perfecting their technique.
 
Last edited:
You must be new to playing online...

tiny-violin.jpg
 
Needs to be more filters for Online - I'm sure everyone agrees with that.

Secondly, i think as 1 filter option you should be able to set a " licence filter " - Something like silver IA or silver special licence required to race in this room, or gold IA,IB,Special etc...

I think this idea would actually have a lot of merit. But I think the license tests, especially the S tests are flawed and not really a proper test of skill. In fact, if anything, I think the nature of the S tests only encourages this sort of driving.
 
I think this idea would actually have a lot of merit. But I think the license tests, especially the S tests are flawed and not really a proper test of skill. In fact, if anything, I think the nature of the S tests only encourages this sort of driving.

Haven't done S licence in long time but i do remember it being tough as far as contact goes ? I may be wrong, feel free to correct me if that is the case.

A teenager with a DS3 who just want's to smash **** up, is not gonna sit there and grind the IA licence etc..
I would feel very confident if i set the room to Gold IA licence holders only that i was going to have a good clean race, where people tried their utmost to avoid contact.
( Accidents happen though, that's part of what makes watching racing fun )
 
It's a pity you can't filter races by controller type. That would eliminate a lot of the casual destruction derby types with a ds3 versus those with wheel. Elitism? Maybe.
 
I dont think this is the fault of A-spec. Just because A-spec lets you hit people doesnt mean that that is have you learn to drive. In fact, A-spec is so easy (on most races) that the first few corners is the only time where you need to race with the AI. The rest of the race is basically a time trial which promotes clean driving.

The reason that people hit you is because they can get an advantage from it. And they dont care about your feeling.

And as you expecting a bunch of casual racers to control F1 cars around the first 2 turns of suzuka. I dont think that the average racer has the skills
 
You don't want to see Daytona "for fun" servers. My vette has never looked worse. Of course, that was all lag that caused that. Plus, I use a controller and I say I am not a cahotic racer. It probably is just lag or trolls, or people that are just plain stupid.
 
And as you expecting a bunch of casual racers to control F1 cars around the first 2 turns of suzuka. I dont think that the average racer has the skills

Apparently, few of the pro F1 drivers have those skills, either!

Maybe we are setting the bar unrealistically high?
 
I will say it a third time, Gold licence filters would filter out the 'casual slam into you idiots' .

Simple fix.
 
Won't do much for the 'deliberate slam into you idiots', though.:sly:

Having gone through this issue extensively on Shift, I can assure you that some of the FASTEST drivers will happily barge around, and flagrantly cut chicanes etc..

There's a whole new generation of gamers that seem to think that, if you CAN exploit a game, you SHOULD.

Now, get off my lawn! :grumpy:
 
Back