A-Spec Conditioning? Why People Can't Make it Through the First Two Turns Cleanly?

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AliasJR
HAvent you experience it? haven't you been on nurburgring and all this dirty racers aree so eager to get the 1st place that more than half the cars crash in the first corner? the other 50% crash on the upcoming corners. happens every time I race in nurburgring, most of the times I get rammed.
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Of course I've seen, witnessed and been part of a first corner or any corner melee. But after playing f1 2010, I'm battle hardened now. Just let the keen ones go, they will take themselves off, just avoid it, keep your distance and watch the mirror. A lot of shunts can be avoided, by getting out of the way.
 
kuyaglen
You must be new to playing online...

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priceless!!!


i dont have problem playin gt5 online , always penalties on high , damage on low.
 
If you are in the UK and want competitive clean racing go to: http://www.gbracingclub.co.uk/news.php

If your not in the UK then why not start something similar where you are. Encouraging everyone to use mics helps. Mistakes happen but if people are able to communicate, it helps.

The more you get to know a group of regular people the better it gets. Take control - open your own lounge - set weight and power limits etc. kick people who don't race clean.
 
I don't think filters are a good way to teach anybody anything.

Instead, implement a 50% power penalty for first corner crashes. If a car receives a significant impact in the first 20 seconds of a race, set its max power at 50% for the remainder of the race. Disable the player's ability to quit the race, short of turning off their PS3, and make them wait it out. Sitting on the sidelines in a crippled car will teach people to avoid contact, guaranteed.
 
I tend not to go into peoples rooms just set up races with my friends so theres around 6-7 of us mostly all clean apart from one who complains when I turn the penalties to high. That teaches him not to start smashing into people just for the sake of it.
 
After spending countless hours schooling the noobs on Prologue, I feel a little bit more prepared. Like others have said, let the turn (and God) sort out the gene pool, then advance from there.

Fools learn from their own mistakes. Wise men learn from fools mistakes.

and stuff.
 
Lol! Epic tiny violin!



Seriously though, last night was a diversion from the norm for me. I almost always race with people I know online. One of the groups I frequent is the CDC (Clean Driver's Club) who holds clean Super GT races. But yesterday I just spent a few hours narrowing down the favorites in my garage to about 35 cars, some of which had never been driven. I had hit 20,000,000 credits and figured it was time I spent some of it. So like I said I spent some hours weeding out all of the unnecessary cars, and categorizing my favorites by min/max hp and weight, and I purchased all the upgrades/oil changes that I wanted for the ones that were untouched. So I was just out purely looking to have fun racing, not necessarily even wanting to be super competitive. I just decided to pop in some rooms and give it a go with some new guys. It's just sad how that worked out. And the worst part is that some of these guys knew each other, say 4 or 5 of them in the room. At least in one room that many people knew each other and that's how they were driving among friends. In one room we were on Autumn Ring Mini racing 150hp cars, and I was in first with my Cappuccino RM. The 2nd and 3rd place cars who knew each other literally decided to sandwich me off the track on the 3rd to last corner. It was so intentional that it wasn't even funny, but I just kept quiet because I had joined the room and they all knew each other. Still, I was in first and finished in last place because of this.


Obviously the OP was all a bit of a rant, but I'm completely serious in that I think that if they enforced the same penalty system that can be used for online races in the A-Spec event, GT5 would be putting out better drivers, especially with heavy damage and heavy penalties (as long as they could make it consistent). License tests do a bit of something for sure, but basically those challenges are just a series of one-offs. You do what is necessary to get the desired trophy at the moment and adapt your driving, but there's no real longevity there. Plus, those cars all handle like crap, or at least very different from the ones people usually end up driving with online.
 
The problem with the internet is that every moron, inbreed, retard, douchebag, and **cktard all have a voice (and in this case a car)...
...that being said, myself included. I'm not above the occassional internet shenanigans, but my shenanigans are fun and cheeky, while others shenanigas are dark and tragic.
 
brambos
See, this is why online is a completely useless aspect of the game. But I guess it's a sign of the times. Kids these days buy games only for the online part.. just dicking around without really delving into the depth of the actual game. I stay away from it as far as possible.

Now get off my lawn... :)
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What if online is the depth of the game? I see things in reverse. A-Spec if for messing around because good luck finding an actual race there.

With online, you have rules, damage, fuel and tire wear. You can race for more than 2 laps, and you get to qualify and set up your car before the race starts. That is racing. A-Spec is just an arcady ghost of a racing game that happens to have good physics, but nothing else to offer.

I'd encourage people to only play online to really learn how to race, but unfortunately that isn't possible.
 
This happens in any racing game online when you play with randoms. The trick is to anticipate the chaos that will ensue. Its not GT5, but in F1 2010 - online sprint at Monza, I start very very cautiously. Usually I make it to turn 1 last, unless there is also someone else doing what I do. The rest of the field just speed into turn 1, crash and screw up at the first turn. They either get a 10s penalty or end up ruining their race. Then theres me who is behind all of this and laughing at the chaos in front. Smoothly navigate through the choas at turn 1, get a good exit and usually I'm first at this point, or the guy(s) ahead are fairly close.

Lesson: You cannot get hit from behind if nobody is behind you!
 
A-spec racing against the A.I. is absolutely the culprit. Because the A.I. sucks so badly, you never learn how to follow a legit racer. When I have a faster car, I always try to do one lap behind the A.I. However the A.I. often brakes at random spots on the track and if you aren't ready for it you slam into them. On some turns you can preempt this by getting off the gas early and waiting to see their brake lights, but even then they brake so hard you still might slam into them. You end up never following the A.I. into any turns. With online racing in closely matched cars you need to stick to the racing line which means you need to be prepared to follow a racer without hitting them. It means braking early (but less) and trailing them into turns. A technique you simply cannot learn against A.I. racers.
 
chuyler1
A-spec racing against the A.I. is absolutely the culprit. Because the A.I. sucks so badly, you never learn how to follow a legit racer. When I have a faster car, I always try to do one lap behind the A.I. However the A.I. often brakes at random spots on the track and if you aren't ready for it you slam into them. On some turns you can preempt this by getting off the gas early and waiting to see their brake lights, but even then they brake so hard you still might slam into them. You end up never following the A.I. into any turns. With online racing in closely matched cars you need to stick to the racing line which means you need to be prepared to follow a racer without hitting them. It means braking early (but less) and trailing them into turns. A technique you simply cannot learn against A.I. racers.
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But if A-spec mode is responsible for training drivers to wreck when they race online, by this reasoning, A-spec mode would train drivers to brake too early -- not too late (or not at all).

The simple fact is, racing is hard. It takes patience, skill, and subtlety -- three things a lot of young drivers don't have. What they DO have is impatience, inexperience, and adrenaline.

To combat this, PD could do a few things to discourage crashing. One is a temporary penalty system to slow their car down, but another way to do it is to charge them credits for car repairs after the race. When a race starts, collect a portion of their money as a deposit. When they crash, they lose their deposit (depending on how hard or how much they crash).
 
I've always half-joked that people should have to buy insurance before being able to race online. That way, if you plough into someone else's car and wreck it then your credits are debited to pay for the damage. If you are a persistent offender, your car is confiscated... Might make people think twice :)
 
Between lag and unpredictable opponents I find it hard to run a clean race. That and it's hard to tell the position of my opponent when they are in my blind spot. Of course I am going to hit them when I turn in.

I think that because the races or often so short(1-5 Laps) your start is the only thing that matters, no wonder everyone is trying to get into first right away.

Penalties and damage really iron out the races I find making it about the whole race and not just the start.

Also if there was a better system for car selection(like the point system in GT5P) to even out the cars. I like having to choose and balance between HP, weight, downforce and tires. Instead it seems everyone goes for max HP lowest weight and racing softs.

Boring.
 
grrlpurple
On the flip side - how often have you screamed at the AI drivers in those license tests and special events when they have barged into you and got you disqualified?

I find that is my biggest bug bear - I totally agree that there should be a means of cleaning up the online game but PD would need to get the balance right so that innocent drivers are not penalised as they are for contact in other aspects of the game.
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I almost ripped one of my controllers apart for that very reason!
 
SS_1182
- It's A-Spec's fault, I know it, well that's my theory. The problem here is that A-Spec doesn't really teach people how to RACE, nor do license tests for that matter. It teaches them how to drive like neanderthals clubbing their way toward their next gold trophy and prize car. Strict penalties in A-Spec events, including the enforcement of 2 tires on, AND more importantly having a significant clean race bonus could really do a lot to improve the quality of driving out there among the interwebs. I remember way back in the days of my first Need For Speed game when it was a big deal to finish the race with the clean driving bonus because it paid off. Think about what that could do for these pickle heads ruining any chance for a lot of other people to have and enjoyable racing experience.
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Your blame of "A-Spec" only highlights a problem with the mindset of people and their willingness not accept responsibility for their own actions.💡
 
ElSecundo
But if A-spec mode is responsible for training drivers to wreck when they race online, by this reasoning, A-spec mode would train drivers to brake too early -- not too late (or not at all).
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Most A-spec races you can pick a safe line into turn 1 and brake late to get around 2/3rds of the pack. The point at which you brake is usually relative to the speed and brake points of the A.I. But when a real driver in front of you already brakes late, you brake extremely late trying to get around them and turn into a sled with locked up wheels careening toward anything in your path.

You simply don't have to be a good driver to succeed at most A-spec events. There aren't enough restrictions to force you to drive smooth and safe...but then again only having 2-3 laps in most events doesn't give you enough time to get around an entire pack of cars anyway so it is flawed even if you don't pick a car that overpowers the competition.

Personally, my favorite events have been the special events where you start in last and have to work your way to the front over 10 laps. You tackle racers one or two at a time and have to pick safe places to pass. It is the most head-to-head racing I get out of the game. I always start with an underpowered car and see how far I can get before moving to something better. I wish there was an online mode similar to this. Take qualifying times and reverse the order placing the fastest drivers at the back. The slowest drivers simply have to run clean and block while the faster drivers have to battle their way to the front. Winners would be determined based on lap times not finishing place or something. It might not be great for the people who just want to race and win...but it would be challenging for all drivers and prevent the turn-1 pileup that plagues most online races.
 
Amass a bunch of good clean racers to race with online, that should clear up having to race with morons all the time. I went through the bad time online as well, now I have a friends list of good drivers and have more than enough great tight races. Come across some very fast guys online, spend majority of time racing GT 500 cars, but will use GT 300 and DTM cars as well. Haven't tried using tuned street cars as it's just too much variety, PD needs to implement more rules to govern what types of cars you can use and also have the ability to force stock power to keep people from attempting to run bad oil and add turbo to make the power limit. Also why is it PD has implemented restrictors, that you can install on any car to reduce it's power output. This would be a great feature that can add another dimension to the game. Think about it what it would be like to run an S7 with 400hp, or the McLaren with 350 and run against the likes of street cars? Those detune numbers might be a bit steep, but I do believe that thye can be done.
 
totally agree

took a the 1st corner on deep forest perfectly, only to be knocked out of a 10lap race by the host driving straight into me

Race lobby was called 'clean race, dirty drivers kicked' apparently the host was allowed to drive like an idiot.
 
When you got the game telling you to chase down the whole field in "X" amount of laps and especially GT5P with the "Beat the whole field from dead last to first in one lap" how can anyone expect a person to get online and actually have a race mentality? FM3 was slightly better. You could still pile on the power and leave the comp behind in some races. But I think F1 2010 did it best. You really had to race and if you didn't get 1st in every race it was NOT a bad thing at all. Just moving up in positions was great for your career. That game probably fostered more racing discipline in people than any. Problem is the speed of the cars was probably the most challenging to people online, but the few races I did online with randoms you could see them trying to actually race properly.

I wonder if Kaz is a Steve McQueen fan, if so I then wonder if the movie "LeMans" gave him inspiration for the game or was it "Bullitt"
 
Ghost Rydor
Yes very much so. I found setting damage to heavy made a big difference in the way people drove. It stops people riding you and riding the rails. Deflects most noobs before they even bother to enter. Its like they think "oh I have to be able to drive here, no thanks". Then they leave, then I laugh!
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I'm always entertained by the "hey can you turn on SRF" and similar comments in lobbies I've hosted. Its like NO theres a reason why its off.
 
kuyaglen
You must be new to playing online...

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Yeah; eventually I find a good public lobby who has a host who cares 👍 A host who will leave the race in order to boot the punters 👍; and yeah build up your clean driver friends list; it can be great fun online; especially when bored of racing A. I. in-game.
 
F1Addict
This happens in any racing game online when you play with randoms. The trick is to anticipate the chaos that will ensue. Its not GT5, but in F1 2010 - online sprint at Monza, I start very very cautiously. Usually I make it to turn 1 last, unless there is also someone else doing what I do. The rest of the field just speed into turn 1, crash and screw up at the first turn. They either get a 10s penalty or end up ruining their race. Then theres me who is behind all of this and laughing at the chaos in front. Smoothly navigate through the choas at turn 1, get a good exit and usually I'm first at this point, or the guy(s) ahead are fairly close.

Lesson: You cannot get hit from behind if nobody is behind you!
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This is the exact mindset i have when racing with randoms.I'll drop back and wait for the madness to happen and then go about my race.Sometimes i'll get surprised when i get into a room with racers who are clean.Then i'm clean racing my way to the front.
 
maxpontiac
Your blame of "A-Spec" only highlights a problem with the mindset of people and their willingness not accept responsibility for their own actions.💡
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I think it's much more than just an issue of not accepting responsibility... There are several specific things about the AI behavior and game structure that trains and encourages bad driving habits.

Upon entering a race, when there is a car that randomly appears that is clearly several seconds a lap faster than the rest of the pace and there is hardly ever a good indicator of what a 'competitive/underpowered/overpowered' setup for yourself will be, it encourages people to respond by over-tuning their vehicles.

When the AI opponents make no effort to avoid ramming you if they're behind you, when they run you off the road on a straight when it is clear that you are fast enough to pass before you get to the corner, when they all seem to drive with no knowledge of your position or speed, it encourages people to behave the same way.

It's better to be a disciplined driver, but when driving in an undisciplined way is rewarded by the game, more people will learn these bad habits than otherwise.
 
It's just a fact of life that not everyone will race cleanly. My advice is to race people from this site and then at least if they don't race clean you can name and shame them! There's a huge list of user ID's who claim to race fair. Give that a try.
 
grrlpurple
On the flip side - how often have you screamed at the AI drivers in those license tests and special events when they have barged into you and got you disqualified?

I find that is my biggest bug bear - I totally agree that there should be a means of cleaning up the online game but PD would need to get the balance right so that innocent drivers are not penalised as they are for contact in other aspects of the game.
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Yeah, THIS.

I did Indy 500 for the first time last night and tried very hard to race clean the whole way through, and I was doing marvelously until around lap 104 or 105 some AI bastard in an R8 race car SLAMMED into me as hard as he could with no warning on a turn and sent me into a spin. Getting disqualifed 104 laps into a 200 lap race because the AI was being stupid would likely make me ragequit as AI drivers plowing into and DQing me on the Top Gear track did numerous times when I was shooting for the three golds there.

I would welcome stricter rules, but ONLY if the AI was upgraded to compensate.
 
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