A-Spec Should Have Been Like Seasonal

[udontneed2know2]

With each new Seasonal Event I keep thinking how much more fun A-Spec would have been if it was more like the Seasonal Events. Especially in terms of the limitations on your HP and how it puts you more in tune with what the other racers are driving. This creates a much more challenging and thrilling race then blowing past your competition within 10 seconds and lapping them by the end of a 3 lap race ala 95% of A-Spec. Only challenging races on A-Spec are Like the Wind, All Stars and Formula Championship but only because there is 1-3 cars that are insanely fast and most people end up having to buy, supe and tune a car capable of keeping up.

I know it is too late to rehaul A-Spec, but thankfully Polyphony keeps updating the game with these great Seasonal Events. The ones without HP limitations are pretty easy but any of the ones where your limited on what you can bring to the race are the real challenging, fun ones, in comparison to everything else anyway.

Anyone else feel the same? A-Spec was just far too easy ... except of course the races named above where your up against 900+ HP race cars.

 

[nyyellowtaxi]

The game is exactly what you make it to be. I always check the grid before I start the race with a compatible car so your example really doesn't apply to me. Most my race I battle the first car until the last corner. Some I finish 5th then I return with minor upgrade.

It you always race with an over powerful car, blow past your competition in the first 10 seconds, and then lapping them by the end of a 3rd lap race. Then you, my friend, made the game not fun for yourself.

It's like people who choose to grid Endurance and then complain it's boring... What do you want me to say?

 

[JMII]

The game is exactly what you make it to be. I always check the grid before I start the race with a compatible car so your example really doesn't apply to me. Most my race I battle the first car until the last corner. Some I finish 5th then I return with minor upgrade.

+1

If you limit yourself A-Spec can be just as challenging as the Seasonal Events. The downside is in A-Spec the rubber-banding makes it hard to judge what time is needed for the win. If your slow the AI cars slow down automatically making it appear like a win is possible. If the darn AI was more consistent and PD locked down the specs (like a HP & KGS limit or a limited car list) then A-Spec would be a blast.

 

[66'Roadster]

Yea I think they should bin B spec and replace it with a seasonal tab. B Spec is pointless to me!

 

[niky]

It's not rubberbanding. The AI drive very slowly at the start because their "mood meters" are blue and start to drive harder the closer you are to them. Once you get in front, they drive harder still.

True rubberbanding makes the AI cars faster or grippier when they're far behind. They aren't. It's just the AI itself "wakes up." Thank goodness for that. The rest of the time they drive like zombies.

A good, tactical win in A-Spec is knowing where and how to block the AI to your best advantage.

If, for example, you enter a race with a woefully underpowered car, braking a bit early for the last turn before a main straight when an AI car is up your tail makes him back off, giving you breathing room. You can also swerve to block AI and they back off.

I've won races over 50 hp down with cars with dirty oil, a worn chassis and no mods... where the AI were breathing down my neck after I'd passed them all on the first few corners (because at that point, their meters are all still blue). It makes for a fun race, especially as the AI drive fastest on the last lap, by which time most human players will have shredded their tires and will be having a harder time driving, while the AI will have fresh tires because they basically don't use them all race long.

Even worse when you have a rabbit that was being held up by slower traffic. You've been maintaining that 10 second lead over that second place turtle all race long, then suddenly the fifth place rabbit has finally made its way to second and decimates your lead in one lap.

The biggest advantage seasonals have over A-Spec is the field is consistent. All the turtles and rabbits start in the same place, every time.

It's only once in a while that you get a wayward "rabbit" in seasonals (Focus RS in the C30 race), but the rest of the time, the field is predictable, and you know it's winnable with a stock car (except in one or two instances).

 

[sdstig]

I do agree to some extent. Lets you know if you're a better driver if you're in an equally matched car. It can also be more fun


However, it's also nice to get some races out of the way like the pick-up one. I just used a max hp SSR that I got free from one of the A-spec races. It's also nice to get some quick money in a much faster car. EX: grinding my maxed Stealth GTR Super GT in the Turbo Challenge

It's also nice when you're struggling and can just tune your car or use a faster one. EX: I struggled at first in the race series that gives you the ending movie (can't remember what it's called) in my Stealth GTR Super GT car. The first 2 races of the championship are Le Mans (Sarthe) No Chicanes and the Nurburgring, 2 tracks I'm not that good at (I already suck). Especially on LM on the HUGE straight and all the other cars had a higher top speed. It was nice to tune it to 750hp and then dominate everything.

 

[C_Monster]

I completely agree. The offline portion of this game is pretty bland....and I think the lack of any sort of rules or restrictions on most of the offline races (A-spec/B-spec) is a big reason why.

 

[boshuter]

I completely agree. The offline portion of this game is pretty bland....and I think the lack of any sort of rules or restrictions on most of the offline races (A-spec/B-spec) is a big reason why.

Bland is putting it mildly, the seasonals are just as bad now that they did away with restrictions. I know you can try them with a stock car and then just tune enough to make it competitive, but with all the time it takes to navigate the slow loading menus to accomplish that.... forget it..... max it out for easy win/credits and get back to the only thing that makes this game even remotely worthwhile.... online racing.

 

[66'Roadster]

Ive not ventured into online racing yet, offline is pretty good for me! Seems a lot if anti gt5 in here!

 

[nyyellowtaxi]

Bland is putting it mildly, the seasonals are just as bad now that they did away with restrictions. I know you can try them with a stock car and then just tune enough to make it competitive, but with all the time it takes to navigate the slow loading menus to accomplish that.... forget it..... max it out for easy win/credits and get back to the only thing that makes this game even remotely worthwhile.... online racing.

What I am getting is. I know I am ruining my experience but I am doing it anyway. I can't control myself and since the game doesn't control me so it's the developer's fault?

 

[vicdavery]

No, no, no, no, NO!

I completely disagree. What I want is a race! The seasonal events bonus "race" is just trying to beat a given overall race time. The competitors are irrelevant in the seasonal event because to win you have to be much faster than they are in order to make up the 40seconds on the leader.

I want to be rubbing shoulders with roughly equal cars. If I make a mistake they should come back past me, I should only be able to gradually close on a guy in front.
The A-spec has some races which do this pretty well by ensuring a fairly narrow range of cars, but their not long enough to enable to you to close on the leaders without going for a much faster car.

The seasonal events are fine for gaining big money and xp, but are rubbish races in the true sense of the word.

Just my feelings on what could be an even better game. Sorry for ranting.
Vic.

 

[66'Roadster]

^^ what Vic said!

 

[Dave_Panic]

What I am getting is. I know I am ruining my experience but I am doing it anyway. I can't control myself and since the game doesn't control me so it's the developer's fault?

In a word. Yes.

It's their job to pace and balance the difficulty of the game. This has clearly not been given much thought and after 6 years of waiting you have to wonder why. Shouldn't that have been one person's job for all that time?

Don't get me wrong I love the simulation side of it. It's enormous fun just driving around on you own sometimes but they really should have had a look what was going on in the world around them over those 6 years as pretty much the only criticisms you could level at the GT series have not been addressed.

 

[dr_gonzo]

What I am getting is. I know I am ruining my experience but I am doing it anyway. I can't control myself and since the game doesn't control me so it's the developer's fault?

I don't know who the hell you can say that. Alcoholic's don't blame the breweries or shops for selling them the alcohol to fuel their addiction.

Drug addicts don't blame the dealers for selling them the products.

how can you sit there and say it's PD's fault for you lack of will power and self control.

 

[nyyellowtaxi]

It's their job to pace and balance the difficulty of the game. This has clearly not been given much thought and after 6 years of waiting you have to wonder why. Shouldn't that have been one person's job for all that time?

It showed you what are the typical competition before you enter a race, did it not? That one person to pace and balance the difficulty is you. Who can decide what's easy and what's difficult for all of us? Who can decide if 486HP is the magic power and in reality you need a little boost or better tires? Restriction on seasonal events have proved that. If there's a restriction, casual gamers are going to give up. If there's no restriction then some people don't have to will power to control yourself and give up. No one will ever be happy.

I can load up FIFA 10 and assumable a dream team at the menu to demolish every game. Is it EA's fault? I can use infinite rocket launch and maul throuugh resident evil. Is that Capcom's fault? Just read what dr_gonzo said.

I have to agree with vicdavery said. Seconal events are fun. But if you think about it, it's nothing more special than Ridge Race. It's not racing, it's time challenge and you are passing 1 car at a time.

 

[RacingManiac]

The only thing that A-spec should be similar to Seasonal is that they should payout more. A race should be a race, as opposed to trying to get pass a scenario, which is essentially what the seasonals are. While its still challenging and undoubtedly fun, its not really a race. I had great fun yesterday just racing a stock 2010 STI in the Polyphony Digital Cup. I have to make drive really hard to get to the front and keep pushing to stay there as whatever advantage I may have over the AI under braking and cornering pretty much nullified on the straights. So you get this pack of cars haunting you the whole race. Thats racing....

The only other issue comes from again the sub-par AI when you run them that close. Their deficiency in awareness really shows up badly when they just ram into the side of you when you are there on their racing line.

 

[Smith1]

What I am getting is. I know I am ruining my experience but I am doing it anyway. I can't control myself and since the game doesn't control me so it's the developer's fault?

Well a little. I have the same problem in games, i play on easy to get through it and always make plans of playing it again on hard but almost never do anymore.

It would be like if Grand Theft Auto gave you +50 health everytime you ate food but had no max limit. On all stages I would have had atleast 300% and crushed most missions. And if I failed I would have probably tried it again with about 800%. But you cant so it forced me to learn to take cover and to drive better instead of stopping and having a shoot out. But I beat GTA5 and had a blast because they had a good set up.

 

[Blangadanger]

My problem with A-Spec is it takes a lot of effort to make the races a challenge. Most of them have a very specific requirement like make/model or year, but if you take that car to the race stock, it's still easy to win. I started trying to sell myself short by the end of A-Spec by going into races 150-200 hp below the list of "possible contenders" they show on the race screen, but I was still getting first without much of a sweat.

I feel like GT5's single-player mode could have been a lot more fulfilling if they had restricted the events to power/weight/tires instead of make/model. If they wanted to appeal to casual gamers, at least set the bar higher to begin with. Instead it's easy by default and gets easier if you want it to be (by modifying your car in any way).

Since some of the seasonal events require at least minimal tuning to win, it's a step in the right direction, but I hope they continue to push the envelope in difficulty. The endurance races can be better too if you go with a much smaller engine than everyone else (not always possible since some of them are make/model spec too).

Don't get me wrong, I love the cars, the graphics, and the tracks. I just feel like the only reason to do the A-Spec races is to get the car for completing it, which makes it seem more like B-Spec than a single-player campaign. I guess Online Racing is supposed to be the replacement for what A-Spec used to be.

 

[RODDUZ]

It's not rubberbanding. The AI drive very slowly at the start because their "mood meters" are blue and start to drive harder the closer you are to them. Once you get in front, they drive harder still.

True rubberbanding makes the AI cars faster or grippier when they're far behind. They aren't. It's just the AI itself "wakes up." Thank goodness for that. The rest of the time they drive like zombies.

A good, tactical win in A-Spec is knowing where and how to block the AI to your best advantage.

If, for example, you enter a race with a woefully underpowered car, braking a bit early for the last turn before a main straight when an AI car is up your tail makes him back off, giving you breathing room. You can also swerve to block AI and they back off.

I've won races over 50 hp down with cars with dirty oil, a worn chassis and no mods... where the AI were breathing down my neck after I'd passed them all on the first few corners (because at that point, their meters are all still blue). It makes for a fun race, especially as the AI drive fastest on the last lap, by which time most human players will have shredded their tires and will be having a harder time driving, while the AI will have fresh tires because they basically don't use them all race long.

Even worse when you have a rabbit that was being held up by slower traffic. You've been maintaining that 10 second lead over that second place turtle all race long, then suddenly the fifth place rabbit has finally made its way to second and decimates your lead in one lap.

The biggest advantage seasonals have over A-Spec is the field is consistent. All the turtles and rabbits start in the same place, every time.

It's only once in a while that you get a wayward "rabbit" in seasonals (Focus RS in the C30 race), but the rest of the time, the field is predictable, and you know it's winnable with a stock car (except in one or two instances).

Where do you get this information about the AI drivers having the Bspec meter thing?

 

[RODDUZ]

My problem with A-Spec is it takes a lot of effort to make the races a challenge. Most of them have a very specific requirement like make/model or year, but if you take that car to the race stock, it's still easy to win. I started trying to sell myself short by the end of A-Spec by going into races 150-200 hp below the list of "possible contenders" they show on the race screen, but I was still getting first without much of a sweat.

I feel like GT5's single-player mode could have been a lot more fulfilling if they had restricted the events to power/weight/tires instead of make/model. If they wanted to appeal to casual gamers, at least set the bar higher to begin with. Instead it's easy by default and gets easier if you want it to be (by modifying your car in any way).

Since some of the seasonal events require at least minimal tuning to win, it's a step in the right direction, but I hope they continue to push the envelope in difficulty. The endurance races can be better too if you go with a much smaller engine than everyone else (not always possible since some of them are make/model spec too).

Don't get me wrong, I love the cars, the graphics, and the tracks. I just feel like the only reason to do the A-Spec races is to get the car for completing it, which makes it seem more like B-Spec than a single-player campaign. I guess Online Racing is supposed to be the replacement for what A-Spec used to be.

You were winning with cars 200HP lower than the AI cars? Seriously?

 

[Basilea]

It's up to you! Nothing else to add here! Whether A-Spec or seasonal restrict yourself and it's hard to beat the events.

 

[niky]

Where do you get this information about the AI drivers having the Bspec meter thing?

I watch them and take note of their driving styles and laptimes. And others have noticed this. The AI drives like zombies most of the time, and on the last few laps of the race, they suddenly drive quicker. They don't outright corner faster than their tires allow and don't accelerate faster than you can if you have the same power, so it's not a power increase or a grip multiplier. It's simply that they stop driving like little old ladies. I've even seen AI drivers start to overcook corners if you drive closely enough to them... as there are certain cars that the AI drivers lose control with when they're set to "push."

-

I usually beat the AI with about 50 hp less, except in the Yaris, where 20 hp less is more than enough, and with the Midget II in the Pick-up races, where I'm beating them with 300 hp less.

When I enter a race with a car from the UCD, I don't even bother to change oil or tires most of the time... it's just overkill.

 

[canis39]

I love some of the posts on here.

"Yeah, I usually race my Yugo against Ferraris and Lamborghinis, but that got too easy, so I decided to switch to a moped. To make it harder, I don't use the engine, I just pedal."

Bottom line: believe some of these claims at your own risk.

 

[Beauzaque]

Yeah well if I have to limit myself in order to balance the game's difficulty, then I'm now doing the developer's job for them. Time for PD to start compensating us for our efforts in fixing their game.

Seriously though, this type of oversight seems to be a trend among Japanese developers over the past console generation, at least in anything I've played. Just seems like they're culturally out of touch, or aren't considering us their core audience.

EDIT: Or, the easiest fix in the world. Why not just have the AI cars scaled based on what your driving? Coding for it wouldn't even be very complicated.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

The biggest travesty in all this is PD already had the perfect challenge/difficulty system in GT4. The A-spec point system.

While not consistently applied in that game, the potential there was enormous.

Properly tweaked and applied it would have virtually eliminated this whole controversy.
Additionally, as it did in GT4, it would provide another dimension of mystery and open investigation into the possibilities of challenge and completable achievement.

At this same point in time with the release of GT4, when many are almost finished with GT5, these possibilities hadn't even begun to be explored and documented.
It took months, even years of game play to open all the mysteries of the A-spec points.

On this feature alone, GT5 pales in comparison.

 

[iLex]

Where do you get this information about the AI drivers having the Bspec meter thing?

You can also see this when you select an AI driver during a B-spec race (and likely during a replay too). In B-spec you will see all the information you would see of your own driver, but you can't control it.

 

[niky]

I love some of the posts on here.

"Yeah, I usually race my Yugo against Ferraris and Lamborghinis, but that got too easy, so I decided to switch to a moped. To make it harder, I don't use the engine, I just pedal."

Bottom line: believe some of these claims at your own risk.

Whatchoo talkin' bout, Willis?

Note, in the Pickup Challenge, "Typical Opponenets" lists everyone as having 370-380 hp.

Granted, that was done with the full 114 hp upgrade instead of 100 hp, and with Sports Hards (maximum for the race in B-Spec, so I assume that's what they use) instead of Comfort Mediums. Am still working on winning with the 100hp-CM build without banging through the field like a 1000 pound wrecking ball. With Sports Hard, a relatively "clean" win is hard but possible.

 

[-raVer-]

Whatchoo talkin' bout, Willis?

Note, in the Pickup Challenge, "Typical Opponenets" lists everyone as having 370-380 hp.

Granted, that was done with the full 114 hp upgrade instead of 100 hp, and with Sports Hards (maximum for the race in B-Spec, so I assume that's what they use) instead of Comfort Mediums. Am still working on winning with the 100hp-CM build without banging through the field like a 1000 pound wrecking ball. With Sports Hard, a relatively "clean" win is hard but possible.

Laguna Seca is relatively easy with 92bhp , stock weight and CM Tyres.
The most time you get held up or you get punned.

raVer

 

[niky]

Laguna Seca is relatively easy with 92bhp , stock weight and CM Tyres.
The most time you get held up or you get punned.

raVer

92 bhp? That, sir, is a challenge I accept!

I've done it stock weight with 100 and CM... but I'm having a hard time doing it absolutely "clean" (no barging on the inside of turns and no slamming into the AI). With SH, you can do it relatively clean... just edging over the curbs here and there and barely trading paint, while having all assists off. For CM, I need ABS, at least.

The difficulty with having 100 hp or under is you have to make sure there are no Tacoma rabbits at the head, because if you get held up too long, you won't be able to catch them in time.

 

[-raVer-]

And dont´t have a Silverado on Pole.

Had a SSR on Pole.
I didn´t had paint on back of the car at the end of the race


raVer