A theory about the AI in GT4

[ZeratulSG]

Okay, to everyone who thinks the reason for the poor AI is due to it being a low priority for PD, tell me then why they made it one of their big marketing points during the dev of GT4? Quoted from the official GT4 site:

"Boasting a fantastically advanced and lifelike artificial intelligence (AI), your computer-controlled rivals in Gran Turismo 4 compete with a fervor unmatched even by some of your human opponents. With real-time reactions to your maneuvers and course behaviors modeled after actual professional racers, the challenge is more genuine than ever."

Okay, so we all know this is a steaming pile of cow guts, but the point is they punted "improved AI!" during pre-launch, and they're still doing it, so even though they dropped the ball badly (and IMO again by keeping this type of stuff on the site when it so obviously isn't true), it is/was obviously a priority to them.

Now, to bring this a little more OT, I was racing the American GT Cup (can't remember the name) over the weekend in the Chevy Camaro LM Race Car (which was overkill) and while leading the pack by several seconds after lap 1 at Seattle I decided to try and figure out why I was so much quicker.

In theory I should NOT have been able to walk all over the rest of the grid, which included an Esperante, a 'Vette C2 Race Car, a couple of Ford GT race cars, and the Team Oreca Viper. So I tried altering my driving style to be more conservative, and to replicate what I understand of RL GT car racing (which is to be a whole lot more cautious than GT4 forces you to be). So, braking slightly earlier, feathering the throttle more through turns, and basically reducing tire squeal to an absolute minimum. All of a sudden my split times stayed absolutely constant through the rest of the race (and my laptimes dropped by almost 6 seconds!).

So my theory is that, in this Cup with these cars and this particular AI setting (IMO the AI difficulty is adjusted for different cars in different races, Lupo Cup anyone?), the AI attempts to replicate RL GT car driving style. The reason I'm so much faster is because GT allows us to push the envelope a lot further than we could/would in RL.

 

[amar212]

So my theory is that... the AI attempts to replicate RL GT car driving style. The reason I'm so much faster is because GT allows us to push the envelope a lot further than we could/would in RL.

This is the best description of the "AI problem" so far. 👍

 

[rk]

Okay, to everyone who thinks the reason for the poor AI is due to it being a low priority for PD, tell me then why they made it one of their big marketing points during the dev of GT4? Quoted from the official GT4 site:

"Boasting a fantastically advanced and lifelike artificial intelligence (AI), your computer-controlled rivals in Gran Turismo 4 compete with a fervor unmatched even by some of your human opponents. With real-time reactions to your maneuvers and course behaviors modeled after actual professional racers, the challenge is more genuine than ever."

Okay, so we all know this is a steaming pile of cow guts, but the point is they punted "improved AI!" during pre-launch, and they're still doing it, so even though they dropped the ball badly (and IMO again by keeping this type of stuff on the site when it so obviously isn't true), it is/was obviously a priority to them.

*cough* *COUGH* *splutter* WHAT? What is obvious? Hey Zeratul,

"Having an incredible racing history, packed with death defying maneuvers and scintillating cup winning strategies, I drive with a fervor unmatched by your best AI's. With better than real time reactions to your maneuvers and course behaviors modeled after ME, Michael Schumacher, the reality is more challenging than ever."

Pretty freaking convincing, huh? Want my autograph?
Here, allow me to translate:

"Boasting a fantastically advanced and lifelike artificial intelligence (AI), ("Hiroto, 'life' is a relative term, isn't it?" "Of course it is, Akira, and they are finding new definitions for it almost every day, just ask NASA.") your computer-controlled rivals in Gran Turismo 4 compete with a fervor unmatched even by some of your human opponents.(and if any humans you encountered actually drove like this there would have to be the after the race version of "Mortal Combat" because I at least would want to punch somebodies lights out) someone With real-time reactions to your maneuvers(you go left to pass, he goes left, you go outside to pass, he fades wide, you push it in a area you obviously have superiority, he pushes you into the weeds) and course behaviors modeled after actual professional racers('Akira, did you see that? Schumacher just cut him off! "I saw it Hiro, I SAW IT."), the challenge is more genuine than ever."[/I](Ya, because before it was less genuine; and next time the challenge might actually be genuine instead of "more closer to it.")

So my theory is that, in this Cup with these cars and this particular AI setting (IMO the AI difficulty is adjusted for different cars in different races, Lupo Cup anyone?), the AI attempts to replicate RL GT car driving style. The reason I'm so much faster is because GT allows us to push the envelope a lot further than we could/would in RL.

Right. That's why they haze off their tires and smack ur bootie into the gravel coming into the turns so freaking hot, because they are such dilettantes. The reason you are so much faster is because of this: Go to any of the green areas and pick any track. Select "Family Cup", you will notice a difficulty slider. Although you can't always set it, it is present in every race and Polyphony pre adjusted its levels in all the trophy races. That is the only reason why you are able to be faster in that particular cup.

 

[ZeratulSG]

*cough* *COUGH* *splutter* WHAT? What is obvious? [snip slightly humorous but off-point diatribe]

What is obvious is that at some point they considered it a priority. If they thought the AI in GT3 was just fine, why all the hype about improving it (regardless of the fact that they did NOT improve it much, this I am not contesting)? I'm arguing against the mentality that PD consider the AI a low priority. I'm NOT arguing against the fact that they failed to deliver on their promise.

The reason you are so much faster is because of this: Go to any of the green areas and pick any track. Select "Family Cup", you will notice a difficulty slider. Although you can't always set it, it is present in every race and Polyphony pre adjusted its levels in all the trophy races. That is the only reason why you are able to be faster in that particular cup.

That's exactly what I said! For this particular cup, with the AI settings for THIS PARTICULAR CUP, my theory is as described. Kindly READ the post you're replying to before agreeing in such a disagreeable manner.

Y'know, you try to make a constructive observation...........

 

[rk]

What is obvious is that at some point they considered it a priority. If they thought the AI in GT3 was just fine, why all the hype about improving it

In response to all the pointed questions by people like MasterGT. While it is understood among the Polyphony cogniscenti that the racers are a puny albeit stingy market share, they nevertheless seem to have the cojonees to have their voices heard above the thudding of cash registers, thus forcing a political but empty response.

Kindly READ the post you're replying to before agreeing in such a disagreeable manner.
Y'know, you try to make a constructive observation...........

O my gosh, did I offend you? I am SOO sorry, here I thought this was an OPINION forum, I didn't realize you were actually trying to CONSTRUCT anything. I know it is a small consolation, but perhaps, to protect your valuable sensibilities from such oafish outbursts as mine, you could start a thread of your own with a similar topic, and in the content of the post you could include a statement that requested replies only from people that "kindly agreed with you". Then you could report idiots like me for off topic posting 💡

 

[ZeratulSG]

O my gosh, did I offend you? I am SOO sorry, here I thought this was an OPINION forum, I didn't realize you were actually trying to CONSTRUCT anything. I know it is a small consolation, but perhaps, to protect your valuable sensibilities from such oafish outbursts as mine, you could start a thread of your own with a similar topic, and in the content of the post you could include a statement that requested replies only from people that "kindly agreed with you". Then you could report idiots like me for off topic posting 💡

Of course it's an opinion forum, and I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with me, but that doesn't mean you can't do so politely like an adult. Your responses to my posts have been inflammatory and condescending to say the least. That's not necessary.

Learn to play with others. 👍

 

[Bilgewater]

"Boasting a fantastically advanced and lifelike artificial intelligence (AI), your computer-controlled rivals in Gran Turismo 4 compete with a fervor unmatched even by some of your human opponents. With real-time reactions to your maneuvers and course behaviors modeled after actual professional racers, the challenge is more genuine than ever."

Dave Barry wrote that you could tell a lot about a product by the advertising for the product. If Oldsmobile claims "This isn't your father's Oldsmobile", then the advertising gurus are obviously trying to steer you away from the fact that this particular Olds was designed specifically with your father in mind.

 

[rk]

Of course it's an opinion forum, and I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with me, but that doesn't mean you can't do so politely like an adult. Your responses to my posts have been inflammatory and condescending to say the least. That's not necessary.

Learn to play with others. 👍

I have never: described you, stated an opinion about you or your intelligence or your personality, nor have I accused you of any inflammatory, condescending, stupid or muleish behavior. Perhaps you perceve offence where none was intended. As I said before, this is an opinion forum, I can play FINE with others, but perhaps some of us should learn to play with the big boys.
I still say the AI is poor intentionally, mostly just to vent an opinion, and I think we should keep it on topic, ZeratulSG.

 

[ZeratulSG]

I have never:described you, stated an opinion about you or your intelligence or your personality, nor have I accused you of any inflammatory, condescending, stupid or muleish behavior. Perhaps you perceve offence where none was intended. As I said before, this is an opinion forum, I can play FINE with others, but perhaps some of should learn to play with the big boys.
I still say the AI is poor intentionally, mostly just to vent an opinion, and I think we should keep it on topic, ZeratulSG.

Thank you rk (don't take the dunce as offensive, because it so obviously isn't )

The inflammatory and condescending nature of your remarks were directed at my comments. Regardless, I don't know any of these "big boys" you're referring to (except the mods), perhaps you mean your "premium member" status? Do you think this gives you some sort of right to be rude to newer members?

If no offense was intended, then fine, though your choice of words suggest otherwise. As for keeping on topic, let's do that now and put this to rest before the mods do.

 

[rk]

If no offense was intended, then fine.

Apology accepted.

Zardoz: Thank you for creating such an enjoyable thread. Discussing the topic of "AI failure, flawed or forced" is almost as much fun as GT4 online racing could have been, well, sort of almost then, ok maybe about half as fun, but still fun; although I do seem to have to context some of the opinions culturally. Has your opinion changed at all?