ABS 0 not locking?

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Not_A_Guest

Not_A_Guest

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This is an odd thread title, isn't it?
I was using the Mazda Roadster NC. Completely stock,no brake changes, with just SH tires put on. I wasn't driving with any aids as usual. I panic braked while on the Nordschliefe (without ABS on) and absolutely NOTHING happened to the tires. It was as if ABS was on 10 instead of zero. Has anyone else experienced anything like this?

P.S. I think it should be good to note that I was racing online at the time.
 
So u mashed the brakes and the car just kept going? Turn up the BB or try racing brakes. Rinse and repeat.
 
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It depends on the car, but some brakes don't have the power to lock up the tires. If you don't mind fiddling with the brake bias just turn it up until you like the feel.

When running without ABS fine tuning the brake bias is a must unless you are trying to stay stock.

The method I use is to turn the (front and rear) brakes up until they lock up the front tires, then i'll increase the rears (they're always weak) until they lock at which point I back the settings down a click or so. I like mine set so they lock up at around 70% pressure.
 
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The braking force needed to lock depend on the grip of the tyres, and that in turn depends on the compound, the track surface and the load that's placed on the tyre.

One of may favourite stunts is braking hard at a certain section of Nordschleife where there's a bump in the road just before a turn. The reduce in load when the car travels over the bump makes the brakes lock and when I land again there's a brief puff of smoke before I release the brakes and turn into the corner. Looks great on replays :)
 
Notice how you put on better tires than what it comes with stock. Most sports cars have a brake force set so that it doesn't lock up easily, especially at racing speeds you would see in this game (higher speed is harder to lock). I think with the stock tires on you should be able to lock it under really hard braking to speeds below 80km/h; this has been my experience with most cars anyhow.
 
The brakes do vary widely from car to car for whatever reason. 5 for the strongest end is manageable in some, very touchy in others, and not powerful enough in others. I haven't tried the car mentioned in the OP yet, but I do remember needing to turn the brakes up to 8 or so in some cars to be able to get them to approach locking at full force in long brake zones.

Stock Ferrari 599 on CS or SH comes to mind, and I think maybe the Garaiya Super GT car I used for that series on SS and for sure the Red Bull JR on RH needed to be turned up(is it even possible to lock RS tires with the RBjr?). I could be mistaken about the first two as it's been a while, but it's definitely happened.

You just have to be willing to fiddle with it until it feels and works right for you. It could be an attempt to replicate the real-world versions of some cars... but somehow I doubt that.
 
ABS is just trolling.

Mine doesn't seem to differentiate from off and setting 5.
 
Carl the Sloth
ABS is just trolling.

Mine doesn't seem to differentiate from off and setting 5.
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You must be playing a different game to me.

I see no difference between using 1 and 10 but 0 is unarguably off.

Is it that you don't play with brake balance/buy racing brakes/use suitable tyres?
 
For me the biggest difference between ABS off and on is when something other than braking in a straight line on a smooth flat piece of track. In the previous scenario, especially at speed, you won't notice much difference. However if the track gets bumpy, or you turn in whilst braking, the difference is obvious.
 
I noticed that too. I think it's weird, now we have to change brakes balance to make it feel more realistic.
 
My brakes are still locking on my R33 is I act like a bit of a lark but it's way harder to lock the brakes than it should be
 
That's why I never bothered with ABS 0, on some cars, very slight touch to the brake pedal and it locks like a screeching mouse, on some other cars it works fine.
It's a hassle if I need to find perfect Brake balance settings for each car especially in A spec where I usually want to just enter and drive. There is no testing/qualifying session in there too so it's even more hassle.
 
Morphisor
Notice how you put on better tires than what it comes with stock. Most sports cars have a brake force set so that it doesn't lock up easily, especially at racing speeds you would see in this game (higher speed is harder to lock). I think with the stock tires on you should be able to lock it under really hard braking to speeds below 80km/h; this has been my experience with most cars anyhow.
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^ This has been my experience too. I drive a couple cars regularly with ABS at 0 and when I'm at speed (say, over 75mph) I can jam the brakes and they won't lock up. But when I take the same car into a slow speed corner and jam the brakes while traveling at 40mph they will most certainly lock up. But unlike GT5 it's a very progressive lock up and if you back off the brakes just a smidgen the lock will go away and you can get through the turn. According to my limited research this is a fairly accurate representation of the real world so kudos to PD for finally getting something right. I found ABS 0 to be very frustrating in GT5 but in GT6 I drive pretty much all non-racing-brake cars without ABS and it has been a real joy.

Racing brakes without ABS is a different story. With low brake bias I've been able to get a couple to behave respectably but most just lock up if you look at the brake pedal.
 
As @BrandonW77 hints above, ABS0 in GT6 is completely different than in GT5 and the standard brakes behave much different than racing brakes. Now is the time to give ABS0 shot if you were thinking about it at all because it is quite manageable on a wheel or controller now with a little practice.
 
I've said it a million times now, I miss the old ABS off physics before the update changed it all. It's just too easy with ABS off now. Having said that, I use a controller and not a wheel. I've started to notice that almost everyone that talks of the new physics in GT6 being miles better seems to be a wheel user, so perhaps the new physics and changes that have been made have resulted in a far better experience IF you use a wheel & pedals only.

I don't want to get off topic, but can anyone confirm if you can feel ripple strips through the wheel controllers now? Just trying to pin down if it's worth me pulling out the G27 again that I abandoned with GT5.
 
I can feel the ripple strips fine on my Fanatec GT3 RS just fine, have been able to since day one. Some tracks are have a more pronounced feeling than others but I can feel all of them. It emulates the G27 profile so I'd imagine you can feel them on the G27 too.
 
jlmcmillan1978
I've said it a million times now, I miss the old ABS off physics before the update changed it all. It's just too easy with ABS off now. Having said that, I use a controller and not a wheel. I've started to notice that almost everyone that talks of the new physics in GT6 being miles better seems to be a wheel user, so perhaps the new physics and changes that have been made have resulted in a far better experience IF you use a wheel & pedals only.

I don't want to get off topic, but can anyone confirm if you can feel ripple strips through the wheel controllers now? Just trying to pin down if it's worth me pulling out the G27 again that I abandoned with GT5.
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Yes. A million times yes, it's worth getting the G27 out.

Why did you abandon it?
 
For future reference, it should also be known that I was braking from around 160 km/h or 100 mi/h.
So by what you guys are saying, the wheels won't lock up at that speed?
 
jlmcmillan1978
I don't want to get off topic, but can anyone confirm if you can feel ripple strips through the wheel controllers now? Just trying to pin down if it's worth me pulling out the G27 again that I abandoned with GT5.
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Absolutely !
Using a Thrustmaster T 500 RS, FF on 5
The feel varies from track to track and from ripple strip to ripple strip.
You have a G27 and you don't use it ? :confused:
 
FussyFez
Yes. A million times yes, it's worth getting the G27 out.

Why did you abandon it?
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Yes I put up the cash for a G27 for GT5. This was after continually reading on this forum about how my GT experience would be transformed and how once you went to a wheel you would never look back. My experience in the end was underwhelming to say the least. Force feedback was unusual. I kept getting little pulls and niggles at the wheel when driving in a straight line (simulating bumps?) and then felt almost nothing turning into a corner and absolutely nothing when hitting ripple strips (The DSC by comparison always shakes when hitting such bumps). I ultimately concluded that I was more connected to the game through the controller, & others later confirmed that, in GT5 at least, there was no feedback from hitting ripple strips when using a G27. That seemed plain stupid to me. Still I have kept it, in the hopes that I may get some use for it in the future ( it's so cool with all the steel and leather! :) ), and I'm now beginning to hope that using it with GT6 might be more satisfying. I always had fun using the H-pattern shifter and never really had any issues braking (ABS on or off) and accelerating with the pedals, but the steering was just completely hopeless and so, ultimately, I went back to the controller.

To 'Not A Guest' ( and getting back on topic ) I find that the speed just doesn't matter, if brake bias is at around 2-3 for front and 1 for rear, you will not lock your brakes in any conditions. Granted, such settings mean a long braking distance, and you can increase the settings to get closer to lockup, but I guess the point Im trying to make is that in a non-ABS car the bias setting alone do not mean you can mash the brake pedal and get away with it. I know because I have owned and driven 3 older cars without ABS and you just don't jump on your brakes in such cars and get away with it. If tuning bias was all it took to prevent lock up ABS would never have been invented, it would not be needed. I feel the old physics for ABS off braking from GT5 was more challenging and more realistic.
 
jlmcmillan1978
To 'Not A Guest' ( and getting back on topic ) I find that the speed just doesn't matter, if brake bias is at around 2-3 for front and 1 for rear, you will not lock your brakes in any conditions. Granted, such settings mean a long braking distance, and you can increase the settings to get closer to lockup, but I guess the point Im trying to make is that in a non-ABS car the bias setting alone do not mean you can mash the brake pedal and get away with it. I know because I have owned and driven 3 older cars without ABS and you just don't jump on your brakes in such cars and get away with it. If tuning bias was all it took to prevent lock up ABS would never have been invented, it would not be needed. I feel the old physics for ABS off braking from GT5 was more challenging and more realistic.
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I've tried tunes with brake bias like that. Hated the braking distances so much I decided to tune it myself and just stay with the bad lap times. I usually play with ABS 3 anyway, so this was an odd outing for me. Thanks for the advice though! 👍
 
jlmcmillan1978
To 'Not A Guest' ( and getting back on topic ) I find that the speed just doesn't matter, if brake bias is at around 2-3 for front and 1 for rear, you will not lock your brakes in any conditions. Granted, such settings mean a long braking distance, and you can increase the settings to get closer to lockup, but I guess the point Im trying to make is that in a non-ABS car the bias setting alone do not mean you can mash the brake pedal and get away with it. I know because I have owned and driven 3 older cars without ABS and you just don't jump on your brakes in such cars and get away with it. If tuning bias was all it took to prevent lock up ABS would never have been invented, it would not be needed. I feel the old physics for ABS off braking from GT5 was more challenging and more realistic.
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You can't compare real life, non adjustable brake strength and balance on family sedans to a video game. The game has adjustable brake settings and it only makes sense that you can tune them all the way for very light pressure to full lock and everything in between. ABS0 in GT5 offered no such range of adjustment. You could lock up in many cars with just the lightest of brake pressure on the lowest of settings, 0/0 on many cars, also completely unrealistic.
 
I do
Johnnypenso
You can't compare real life, non adjustable brake strength and balance on family sedans to a video game. The game has adjustable brake settings and it only makes sense that you can tune them all the way for very light pressure to full lock and everything in between. ABS0 in GT5 offered no such range of adjustment. You could lock up in many cars with just the lightest of brake pressure on the lowest of settings, 0/0 on many cars, also completely unrealistic.[/quotedo
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Johnnypenso
You can't compare real life, non adjustable brake strength and balance on family sedans to a video game. The game has adjustable brake settings and it only makes sense that you can tune them all the way for very light pressure to full lock and everything in between. ABS0 in GT5 offered no such range of adjustment. You could lock up in many cars with just the lightest of brake pressure on the lowest of settings, 0/0 on many cars, also completely unrealistic.
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I really don't want to turn this into a big argument because I'm so tired of such things on these forums, but I cannot agree. For me it's very simple. In GT5 I had to take care not to lock brakes when driving a car without ABS a challenge that I enjoyed & did not find frustrating. Now I can simply tweak the settings a bit & hey presto I never lock my brakes. It kind of makes the ABS pointless really. However PD obviously felt change was warranted or they would not have gone down this path, if the majority of people want a no ABS experience that is less challenging & prefer the new model, then I have no choice but to just sigh & play on I guess. I wonder but, was this change made in the name of realism or because people didn't like the old setup? If GT5's no-ABS physics were not realistic then why did they ever model them that way in the first place? I think the new model is a triumph of what people want rather than what's realistic.
 
abs 0 in real life is hard to lock up your wheels, i passed my driving test when abs wasn't on all cars and was taught when doing an emergency stop to apply the brake, back off slightly, then reapply (similar to how it works in gt6) . Abs is an assist that helps you brake and turn at the same time ( to avoid obsticles in road while slowing down ) which is how it works in the game. I find the new gt6 model much more realisic than 5, which although fun, was plainly daft..
by the way i own a Nissan Pulsar GTiR, it has no abs and i have never locked the wheels under braking.. if you've ever owned a bug eyed scooby, the first thing you should do is remove the two fuses for the abs, else get ready for a bad time..
 
jlmcmillan1978
I really don't want to turn this into a big argument because I'm so tired of such things on these forums, but I cannot agree. For me it's very simple. In GT5 I had to take care not to lock brakes when driving a car without ABS a challenge that I enjoyed & did not find frustrating. Now I can simply tweak the settings a bit & hey presto I never lock my brakes. It kind of makes the ABS pointless really. However PD obviously felt change was warranted or they would not have gone down this path, if the majority of people want a no ABS experience that is less challenging & prefer the new model, then I have no choice but to just sigh & play on I guess. I wonder but, was this change made in the name of realism or because people didn't like the old setup? If GT5's no-ABS physics were not realistic then why did they ever model them that way in the first place? I think the new model is a triumph of what people want rather than what's realistic.
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ABS0 was nowhere near realistic in GT5, not even close. I've never driven a car without ABS where I could lock the brakes at 175 km/h with less than 50% brake pressure like you could in GT5, and at the lowest available setting. In fact, at highway speeds you'd be hard pressed to lock your tires without ABS on any car in real life, but certainly not at 50% brake pressure. ABS0 in GT5 was overly strong even at the lowest settings.

In GT6 you can adjust it so you don't lock this is true, but you will sacrifice braking distance. Or you can turn it up until you get some lock. Or you can throw on racing brakes and it's pretty much the same as it was in GT5. In other words, you have every option available to you and you can play the way you want to play. I'm not sure how that's a step backwards, it's actually a big step forwards IMO. The more options the better.
 
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@jlmcmillan1978 just put racing brakes on, then you have to run low bias / power settings, and it's just about as sensitive to locking overall as it was in GT5 - only much more "grabby", which you would expect from larger rotors, for example - might be placebo, much as the slight reduction in grab at speed (due to increased rotary momentum and rolling resistance) could be, as far as the feedback from the game is concerned (you can't feel the deceleration, or the way it "builds").

The other alternative is just to turn the "bias" up to 10/10 with stock brakes. If you want the ridiculously unstable, dynamically (weight transfer) rear-biased brakes found on many cars in GT5, try something like 5/10. Also be sure to try these things in an environment where brake bias adjustments are actually honoured by the game: I use time trial in arcade mode, personally.


You're complaining about a wholesale sweep change in braking behaviour, when in reality it's a small tweak to the range of braking forces, such that cars now have sensible bias settings, if not overall power. The sensible bias is great if you've got the pedal range for the low power (it's a pain with my load cell, yet I can still lock up during trail braking), but the reduced power is clearly designed to make it easier for DS3 users to get into the joy of ABS 0 driving.

The underlying behaviour you're describing is still there if you look for it, it just interacts with the other physics changes in GT6 over GT5 in wholly pleasing ways now.

EDIT: tyre choice is massively important here. I use comfort softs usually. Anything above that and the default braking power is not going to be sufficient, except in trail braking. If you're using sports medium and above, try the racing brakes, or just increase the overall braking power in the "bias" option. Honestly, that should have been your first port of call.
 
Johnnypenso
ABS0 was nowhere near realistic in GT5, not even close. I've never driven a car without ABS where I could lock the brakes at 175 km/h with less than 50% brake pressure like you could in GT5. In fact, at highway speeds you'd be hard pressed to lock your tires without ABS on any car in real life, but certainly not at 50% brake pressure. ABS0 in GT5 was overly strong even at the lowest settings.

In GT6 you can adjust it so you don't lock this is true, but you will sacrifice braking distance. Or you can turn it up until you get some lock. Or you can throw on racing brakes and it's pretty much the same as it was in GT5. In other words, you have every option available to you and you can play the way you want to play. I'm not sure how that's a step backwards, it's actually a big step forwards IMO. The more options the better.
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I honestly think the problem lies with the player not wanting to play with settings, and expecting every car to behave exactly as they want as standard.

I adore GT for its adjustability. If my car isn't reacting how I want it to, I have ways of making it comply, as do we all.
 
jonjig
by the way i own a Nissan Pulsar GTiR, it has no abs and i have never locked the wheels under braking..
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Pretty much any modern car with disc brakes is capable of locking it's wheels with the appropriate (poor) braking technique. If you jump straight on the brakes HARD you'll lock. If you press into it and give the suspension time to load up, even fractions of a second, you probably won't if you're on a piece of dry, clean road with decent tyres.

If you've never locked your brakes, it's because you were (consciously or not) trying not to lock your brakes. If you want to, it can be done. It's not a terribly nice thing to do to your car though, so if you have any mechanical sympathy you may not want to try it.


What's wrong with the bugeye Subaru ABS? I've never heard that one.
 
Brakes on some cars are so bad they barely stop the car, and are not strong enough to break traction on grippy tyres. You need to upgrade to racing brakes for that.
 
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