ABS Off Game Mode dependent Brake Bias Bug - FIXED IN 1.04 UPDATE

[VBR]

EDIT: I just ran all these tests again tonight & am happy to confirm that in the 1.04 update this bug has been fixed in all game modes, even online!



Original post:

There has been talk in various threads of an ABS off bug between different game modes (thanks to @grog for mentioning it to me). So tonight I sat down & done some preliminary testing to try to find out exactly what is going on. Here are the results.

Please note: All tests were conducted in GT6 Version 1.03 with a stock Ferrari 599 with all aids off, including ABS, & using the paddle shifters. Track used was The Ring 24 hour, with the same settings everytime (track temp 23), apart from test 4.



Tests 1: Free Run via Garage. Tested the feel of the brakes with 0/0, 5/5, & 10/10 brake bias settings over 3 separate runs up to the Schumacher Esses. Results; incredibly, there is no discernible difference between any of these settings!

Test 2: Time Trial in Arcade Mode. Tested the feel of the brakes with 0/0, 5/5, & 10/10 brake bias settings over 3 separate runs up to the Schumacher Esses. Results; exactly the same as test 1.

Test 3: Single Race in Arcade Mode. Tested the feel of the brakes with 0/0, 5/5, & 10/10 brake bias settings over 3 separate runs up to the Schumacher Esses. Results; there is a very noticable difference in each setting. 0/0 produces very long braking distances with almost no lock up. 5/5 produces a very easy driving experience (much calmer that 5/5 in the other game modes). And finally 10/10 is a much harder drive, & feels pretty much the same as 0/0, 5/5, & 10/10 in the other modes.

Test 4: Race in Career Mode. Tested the feel of the brakes with 0/0, 5/5, & 10/10 brake bias settings, over 3 separate runs on Monza (can't remember the event). Results; exactly the same as test 3.

Test 5: Practice in Online Lobby. Tested the feel of the brakes with 0/0, 5/5, & 10/10 brake bias settings, over 3 separate runs up to the Schumacher Esses. Results; exactly the same as tests 1 & 2.


Conclusion: The brake bias seems to be stuck on at 10/10 in all modes except Arcade Single Race, & Career Mode. Changing the settings makes no discernible difference in the test car I used in Free Run, Time Trial, or in an Online Lobby (although I cannot confirm that this is the case for every car in GT6).



To test this quickly for yourself; take a stock Ferrari 599 with ABS set to off, & do 3 runs in Time Trial & 3 runs in Single Race in Arcade Mode using paddle shift with the suggested brake bias settings. Let me know what you find.




Happy GT6 beta testing!

 

[Jarnac]

Seasonals?

 

[VBR]

Seasonals?

Didn't test them. Try them for yourself & see what it's like.


👍

 

[Jarnac]

Didn't test them. Try them for yourself & see what it's like.


👍

I only ask as the brakes on the Toyota FT-1 super lap challenge were rather different to what I expected.

 

[poumpoum]

There has been talk in various threads of an ABS off bug between different game modes (thanks to @grog for mentioning it to me). So tonight I sat down & done some preliminary testing to try to find out exactly what is going on. Here are the results.

Please note: All tests were conducted in a stock Ferrari 599 with all aids off, including ABS, & using the paddle shifters. Track used was The Ring 24 hour, with the same settings everytime (track temp 23), apart from test 4.



Tests 1: Free Run via Garage. Tested the feel of the brakes with 0/0, 5/5, & 10/10 brake bias settings over 3 separate runs up to the Schumacher Esses. Results; incredibly, there is no discernible difference between any of these settings!

Test 2: Time Trial in Arcade Mode. Tested the feel of the brakes with 0/0, 5/5, & 10/10 brake bias settings over 3 separate runs up to the Schumacher Esses. Results; exactly the same as test 1.

Test 3: Single Race in Arcade Mode. Tested the feel of the brakes with 0/0, 5/5, & 10/10 brake bias settings over 3 separate runs up to the Schumacher Esses. Results; there is a very noticable difference in each setting. 0/0 produces very long braking distances needed to stop with almost no lock up. 5/5 produces a very easy driving experience (much calmer that 5/5 in the other game modes). And finally 10/10 is a much harder drive, & feels pretty much the same as 0/0, 5/5, & 10/10 in the other modes.

Test 4: Race in Career Mode. Tested the feel of the brakes with 0/0, 5/5, & 10/10 brake bias settings, over 3 separate runs on Monza (can't remember the event). Results; exactly the same as test 3.

Test 5: Practice in Online Lobby. Tested the feel of the brakes with 0/0, 5/5, & 10/10 brake bias settings, over 3 separate runs up to the Schumacher Esses. Results; exactly the same as tests 1 & 2.


Conclusion: The brake bias seems to be stuck on at 10/10 in all modes except Arcade Single Race, & Career Mode. Changing the settings makes no discernible difference in the test car I used in Free Run, Time Trial, or in an Online Lobby (although I cannot confirm that this is the case for every car in GT6).



To test this quickly for yourself; take a stock Ferrari 599 with ABS set to off, & do 3 runs in Time Trial & 3 runs in Single Race in Arcade Mode using paddle shift with the suggested brake bias settings. Let me know what you find.




Happy GT6 beta testing!

Thank you so much for your tests !
Please PD : SAME BEHAVIOR FOR EACH MODE ! (and the one that works...)

 

[VBR]

Thank you so much for your tests !
Please PD : SAME BEHAVIOR FOR EACH MODE ! (and the one that works...)

Many others have observed the same problem, & posted about it before. I just thought it deserved it's own thread as this is a big issue to everyone who drives without ABS in GT6. Hopefully it is something PD are aware of & can fix via a future update.

 

[Morphisor]

Didn't test them. Try them for yourself & see what it's like.


👍

The seasonals are identical to free run and arcade time trial. It's good to have a fresh and well written overview of what many of us have suspected for some time now.

 

[grog]

The seasonals are identical to free run and arcade time trial. It's good to have a fresh and well written overview of what many of us have suspected for some time now.

I just posted a "fresh and well written overview" as a new topic yesterday, but it got merged with another and was buried in another long confusing conversation. Maybe now it will have a chance of being seen.

Here's the quote:

I've mentioned this bug in other threads already but I was encouraged to make a thread focusing on just this as most people aren't aware of this problem yet. This is aimed at folks who run without ABS, but it effects cars whether you turn the abs off or not.

So the core of the problem is that the brake balance/bias is only functional in career mode and arcade mode races. Other modes like free run and online the bias seems to revert back to default settings of 5/5 regardless of whether or not you set it to something else.

Now in most cars the brake balance is perfectly fine out of the box with default settings, so cars like this wont experience any excessive lock ups or have any issues.

The problem only shows up with cars that have very strong brakes at the default levels (such as the Pagani Huayra or Ferrari F40), these cars need their brake balances reduced (from the default value) just to avoid lock ups. So you are at the mercy of the default settings in those modes, if they're too strong then you'll experience nothing but lock ups.

I Have a great example for everyone to try out, using the Pagani Huayra on sport hard tires with a bias of 1/3 (my preference), go drive around in a career mode race. note the pressure it takes to lock up.
Then take the same car to free run or online, and note the pressure it takes the lock up.


I should note this was all experienced on comfort soft or sport hard tires, If you guys happen to use race tires its likely that the extra grip will mask this issue almost completely.

Also I haven't tested arcade mode out myself as I dont use it much, I'm just going off of what others have observed.

 

[xiando]

I should note this was all experienced on comfort soft or sport hard tires, If you guys happen to use race tires its likely that the extra grip will mask this issue almost completely.

Also I haven't tested arcade mode out myself as I dont use it much, I'm just going off of what others have observed.

fwiw, you might want to post the type of setup you use. Wheel or DS3? If Wheel unit, which one, or alternatively, if you have a different foot pedal, which one? The hardware to some degree dictates the end-settings a user selects, (unless they are just a herd follower)

I set my brake bias far higher than you do for most cars (6/5, 7/6, 8/7, etc.) with ABS on to best serve my own setup and driving style. This no matter whether on comfort hard or racing soft or anything inbetween. My biases are normally set way higher than what you've posted, and they're front weighted to account for forward momentum, as is the norm in real world car setups. Not opposed to not using ABS with the brake biases set lower, but not knowing which equipment was used when you selected the values you've posted leaves me uncertain how to proceed

 

[Flinx]

up to the Schumacher Esses

Do you care to explain which part of the track the schumacher esses should be?

 

[grog]

Xiando I use a G25/27 wheel, but for testing this out individual setups shouldn't effect this much if at all. The over all effect of this bug is very easy to test out without dailing any particular settings in.

The Bias I refer to was for the Huayra which has strong racing brakes.

No offense but the last thing this conversation needs is an in depth discussion of ABS setups and what not, the last few threads discussing this have gotten bogged down and derailed.

Lets keep this thread on topic please.


Turns 9 and 10 at the Nürburgring GP are whats referred to as Schumacher S, esses, essex, or curve: http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/nurburg-map-jpg_100205221_m.jpg

 

[xiando]

Sorry grog. My point was simply to understand which setup you are using so I can adjust my consideration accordingly, not to hijack the thread. I should have been more clear about that in my response.

Thanks for the clarification about the IO device you are using with this 1/3 brake bias setting.

 

[LS Chiou]

In the other thread I've mentioned it's easily locked on Supra, that's in free run from garage.

I'm glad I'm not crazy.

 

[Z1-AV69]

Do you care to explain which part of the track the schumacher esses should be?

Schumacher S is part of the GP track. After the hairpin the fast left-right up the hill.

 

[VBR]

Other modes like free run and online the bias seems to revert back to default settings of 5/5 regardless of whether or not you set it to something else.

When I done my testing, there was a marked difference between 5/5 in Arcade/Career races vs the other modes. I don't think it just reverts back to the default 5/5 settings in these modes, but seems to be stuck on 10/10.

 

[Flinx]

Thanks, i confused it with the Yokohama-S.
My bad.

 

[BionicDerp]

Welp, I rarely drive in arcade, so it looks like I'm safe. So far though, my bias always changes car behaviour online. I havent experienced the bug yet.

 

[NCRthree]

Thanks for the write up VBR. This is a very bad bug and has lessened my GT6 enjoyment tremendously. I've only been playing offline so far and with this bug, only doing races. I love running hot laps and that feature is seriously messed up now.

What's so frustrating is how nice ABS Off is now. Haven't found any reason to run with ABS in races, brake modulation using the slider works great. Bringing a high powered car down and feeling it trying to grab the track is a great feeling. It's even better with the improved tire sounds.

 

[ULTRAVIOLENZZ]

Thanks for the info beta testers. We'll try our best to fix this. Meanwhile here's a Miata for your enjoyment. Have fun.

-PD

 

[LS Chiou]

Thanks a lot for sharing this, VBR.👍

They happened to be the worst situations in my previous trials, free runs and Rain Master. I usually do free run for setting up the cars and the Rain Master is one of my most visited race. Who could've known the bug in free run? And in the rain, it's just too slippery and not a proper condition to test brake response.

Last night I tried two cars, both are Camaros with fat tires, RS (PozziMotorSport) & Z28 Race Car '69, in dry races in career mode, in Bathurst and Ascari.

With RH tires, standard brake and no ABS, Camaro RS can do bias of 4 or 5.

By 100% pressing depth of the pedal, in the end of a long straight, it makes the front tire turn yellow or light orange. Keep it that way and turn in -- even a very small movement of steering -- inside front turns red instantly and the tire sound changes. (It would do so without any steering input on some irregularities of track surface, too.) At those occasions when I have to brake mid turn or downhill or both, it'd be more easily locked by much smaller brake input, but in the mean time, the twisting on steering wheel by the weight transfer are very pronounced, more so than doing with ABS.

Switched to racing brake on the same car, the bias must be set down to 1 or 2 to get the similar responses. Or it's just locked all over the place.

On Z28 Race Car '69 which has even fatter tires and with racing brake as 'standard', it'd do 4/4 bias with RH. 5/5 is also doable but the 100% braking would be restricted within very brief moments, so it needs more careful operations. I use trail braking a lot, 4/4 is easier for me by the larger range of modulation.

Overall, the senses of driving is more direct and clear. And I do get the feedbacks on the threshold of lock, although not as perfect and what I wish for, but good enough. When doing late brake overtaking, it gives me equivalent confidence as with ABS. When doing trail braking for adjusting turn-in response, it provides even better feel. It's great.

I'll try more cars and more situations to see if 0 ABS is good for broader applications.

 

[LS Chiou]

Another 0 ABS test to Nissan Fairlady 300ZX (Z32), tuned to pp 630 with 2"-up custom wheels, standard brake.

Much to my surprise, with sport soft, this car can take up to 8/8 bias setting without any lock in the straight under 100% pedal stroke. Only very light orange appears on the temp, and tire sound remains normal. Again, Inside front is locked at the moment of turn-in, red hot, squeals appeared at the locked side and it pushes wide a bit with somewhat lightened FFB on steering. (in one or two occasion, inside rear locked first, but that's rare)

With racing hard, it can take 10/10. Behaviors are very similar or maybe the same as with SS. For larger adjustment and operating range, maybe it's suitable to use racing brake on this road car. I'm fine with standard, though. I don't feel any lacking in stopping power, since there's no difficulty in late brake overtaking.

BTW, this car is so beautiful, and great to drive with wonderful throttle steering. Just love it.

Moving to more touchy MR and RR. And then into the rain...

 

[Zuel]

Did you test any other car rather than the Ferrari?

 

[grog]

Did you test any other car rather than the Ferrari?

Hey Zuel, I've tested many many cars, you can take my word for it (sounds odd but he's my friend). This effects all cars, but mostly cars with strong stock brakes. Another good example is the Pagini Huayra on sport hards.

Just drive anything with the ABS off in a few different modes and you're bound to notice it.

 

[Zuel]

I testes it out lat night myself @grog and I find the brake force set to ten for all cars very, very frustrating. I finding more and more that is bothering.

 

[LVracerGT]

I swear every day it seems there is another inconsistency or issue found out. Beta testing indeed, for a game you already paid for trusting it was past the development stage.

 

[Giulietta73]

I wonder if this ties up with the RA (or is it RM) menu being greyed out for free run, online, seasonals, - everything except career mode it seems.....

 

[VBR]

I wonder if this ties up with the RA (or is it RM) menu being greyed out for free run, online, seasonals, - everything except career mode it seems.....

Good point, it very well might do.

 

[RykketyStykks]

I did a bit of my own testing and I completely agree with your conclusion that the brakes seem stuck on 10/10 in free run.

I also upgraded my car (Jaguar XKR Coupe '10) with racing brakes and repeated the tests. It has the same result - free run appears still on 10/10 (and frankly makes it very prone to locking!).

 

[VBR]

There are reports that the 1.04 update has apparently fixed this bug. Gonna do some testing later...

 

[Giulietta73]

There are reports that the 1.04 update has apparently fixed this bug. Gonna do some testing later...

The RA menu is apparently now available in arcade mode but not online yet and I don't know about seasonals. So we're moving in the right direction - turtle-spec-styleee!!!👍