AC/PS4... any good for casual online clean racing?PS4 

786
United States
United States
I was a long time GT5/6 player, disappointed with GTS (Sport Mode seems to have scavenged much of the casual clean player base that had open lobbies in GT6), disappointed with PC2 (you either join an organized time specific club or league, or you face the kiddie hell of the public online lobbies that are little better than Forza's anarchy), and am considering getting the Ultimate Edition for PS4.

My job and lifestyle seldom allows a consistent time to race online, but GT6 offered a pretty large casual non-League selection of 'Clean or Kick' type rooms at almost any time of day or night. GT6 didn't 'hide' League rooms from the public lobby forum, PC2 does. So, when in PC2's open online lobby selection room, there are barely 60-100 PS4 players showing up visibly online at any one time, in a bare handful of rooms with more than 4-5 players in them. Obviously, this is hugely disappointing. And the level of skill and cleanliness in them is abysmal at best. I've seen cleaner driving in Forza!

I'd like to know, does AC have a more robust casual clean racer community? Can lobby hosts in AC name their rooms? The PS4 version of PC2 doesn't allow this, which makes finding the few rooms that DO want to run 'clean or kick' basically impossible (the PC version of PC2 does allow lobby names :rolleyes: ).

I used to enjoy GT6 enormously despite the arcade nature, mostly because the 'clean or kick' community took the rules seriously, and recognized (unlike the GTS Sport Mode players) that no game will EVER be able to automatically penalize dirty driving correctly, so we did it ourselves, stewarded ourselves, penalized ourselves, acted as witnesses for racing incidents, etc., and ended up with some of the cleanest racing I have yet to be involved with that didn't involve an organized League.

Is there anything like this in AC?
 
96
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
@simsimsheree said: I'd like to know, does AC have a more robust casual clean racer community?

Unfortunately not in my opinion.

"Clean or kick" lobbies are not really possible in AC as a vote to kick is required by absolutely everyone in the lobby and that consensus just never happens. Neither is there any in game attempt to police peoples behaviour in any way, unlike GTS, which has a positively utopian racing environment by comparison. Yup, it's that bad. Additionally, your car will always pirouette gracefully off track with the very slightest of provocations from the rear and you will get plenty of those whether be it from abject incompetence or outright maliciousness.

I love the driving part of the game but the online is sadly the most useless, toxic and frustrating online racing environment I have ever subjected myself to.

The only viable alternative I can see to avoiding the riff raff and actually get a race is to align oneself with an active group of fellow clean racers, if one still exists, and go from there. Hopefully a member of one of these will pop his or her head in here to comment.
 
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786
United States
United States
But can hosts at least title their rooms? You'd stand a better chance in something called 'Pro Clean Racing' than you'd get in one called 'Rubbin's Racing!', I'd be willing to bet...

PC2 is a crapshoot, particularly with respect to usually having at least a qualy session, where you seldom even see anyone else on track for 15-20 minutes before the start, so you seldom get an impression of the room's drivers until the race and the T1 smashfest. I can't tell you how many hours in total I have wasted getting ready for a race, only to find out it is a kiddie bumpercar demolition derby! No room titles for the consoles is absolutely the worst idea SMS ever had.

BTW, PC2's crash collision physics also means that the least bit of rear/side contact spins you out... In fairness, that's pretty close to reality when the cars aren't driven by professional aliens, so I can't really complain, but unless in one of the better fixed-time Leagues, no room titles means there's always SOMEONE in the room just looking for the mayhem! You can't bang and barge as consequence-less as you can in GTS or F7..!
 
12,019
United States
Indianapolis
BrandonW77
But can hosts at least title their rooms? You'd stand a better chance in something called 'Pro Clean Racing' than you'd get in one called 'Rubbin's Racing!', I'd be willing to bet...

Seeing as the room host has no ability to kick (i.e. enforce "Pro Clean Racing") I can't see the room name having any influence on the quality of racing in the room.

For what it's worth, most of what you described are problems with human behavior and are common to most sim racing games (PC or console). The sheer number of players of GT5/6 made them a bit of an anomaly so don't expect that kind of experience anywhere else. If you want to avoid the nonsense you generally either need to join a league/club or pay for iRacing (<--- not entirely devoid of nonsense racers).
 
786
United States
United States
The OP explains that I don't have a job that allows a regular scheduled league participation. And you omitted to answer whether you CAN title rooms, no matter how ineffective you might think it is.

I find it utterly amazing that any racing title that wants to be taken seriously can omit the ability for a host to run his room cleanly. What are Assetto Corsa's game devs smoking? :boggled:

How anybody can even pretend a game has the slightest 'sim' factor without the ability to kick the disruptive elements is beyond belief. For Pete's sake, even poor ridiculed GT Sport, the butt of the jokes about 'simcade' handling is not so incompetent that they omit this essential tool..! :banghead:
 
96
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
O.k then, short answer to your direct question, yes you CAN title a room. I'll take that bet by the way. You're welcome.
 

VBR

Meme Dissident in Exile...
Premium
7,554
England
London
@simsimsheree - I ran lots of Clean or Kick rooms in GT5 & GT6, ran lots of Shuffle rooms in GT5 too. So can understand where you're coming from. I've never come across anything even approaching the level of common sense options in any game calling itself a sim on PS4, & that includes AC. All the modern racing games/sims are a complete & utter joke when it comes to online racing in public lobbies. The reason GT worked so well on the PS3 was the options we had in-game & on the console itself.

Those days are gone I'm afraid, & so is 99% of my interest in sim racing online for the time being...


:(
 
12,019
United States
Indianapolis
BrandonW77
VBR
Those days are gone I'm afraid,

They're not, they're just in PC Land. In AC on PC you can name your room whatever you want and freely kick people out of the room, as well as some mods that notify you when people cut the track so you can boot them if they get too greedy. Plus we have Minorating that grades peoples performances and lets you restrict which license levels can enter your server (i.e. a poor driver with a D license can't enter your server if you set it to A/B/C only). Fun fact, the guy who developed Minorating is now working for Kunos on the rating system for ACC. There's no in-game voice chat though (only text chat), which I know is one of your requirements, but the only PC sim that offers that is iRacing so we use TeamSpeak or Discord with the other games.
 
786
United States
United States
So, Brandon... the wow! was for burning AC for not including a feature on consoles you take for granted on the PC?

Wow!

VBR
@simsimsheree - I ran lots of Clean or Kick rooms in GT5 & GT6, ran lots of Shuffle rooms in GT5 too. So can understand where you're coming from. I've never come across anything even approaching the level of common sense options in any game calling itself a sim on PS4, & that includes AC. All the modern racing games/sims are a complete & utter joke when it comes to online racing in public lobbies. The reason GT worked so well on the PS3 was the options we had in-game & on the console itself.

Those days are gone I'm afraid, & so is 99% of my interest in sim racing online for the time being... :(

I ran in some of your rooms. Yes, sadly, the PS4 generation of games seem to have forgotten what got them there in the first place. And especially the generation that writes for PC and console, the choices of where to omit PC features (that still exist in GTS's open lobbies, so lets not delude ourselves that the console is the problem) seem to be in areas that make clean racing utterly impossible.

The sad fact is, all these wannabe 'sim' titles still sell only a tiny fraction of GT's numbers, but seem to be so blind in their hubris about their supposed 'sim' status that they refuse to implement GT lobby features that allowed GT to be not only an arcade bash-em-up, but also a well run platform for extremely serious clean racing. Yes, the physics were arcade, but the lobby options were seriously 'sim', which you can't say about these so-called 'sim' jokes.

Assetto Corsa, PCARS2... Just because something is in GT doesn't mean it is automatically arcade and not worth copying. You have much to learn, and unless you do, you are going to remain niche games, if you even survive for much longer at all.
 
12,019
United States
Indianapolis
BrandonW77
So, Brandon... the wow! was for burning AC for not including a feature on consoles you take for granted on the PC?

Wow!

If that's what you choose to believe, that's fine. It's wrong, but that's fine.



I ran in some of your rooms. Yes, sadly, the PS4 generation of games seem to have forgotten what got them there in the first place. And especially the generation that writes for PC and console, the choices of where to omit PC features (that still exist in GTS's open lobbies, so lets not delude ourselves that the console is the problem) seem to be in areas that make clean racing utterly impossible.

The sad fact is, all these wannabe 'sim' titles still sell only a tiny fraction of GT's numbers, but seem to be so blind in their hubris about their supposed 'sim' status that they refuse to implement GT lobby features that allowed GT to be not only an arcade bash-em-up, but also a well run platform for extremely serious clean racing. Yes, the physics were arcade, but the lobby options were seriously 'sim', which you can't say about these so-called 'sim' jokes.

Assetto Corsa, PCARS2... Just because something is in GT doesn't mean it is automatically arcade and not worth copying. You have much to learn, and unless you do, you are going to remain niche games, if you even survive for much longer at all.

Wow.
 
3,984
United States
Bel Air, MD
II-NOVA-II
I'm going to jump in here for an attempt at answering your questions. Yes, you can name the room as mentioned, and as mentioned just about everyone has to vote to kick. With that said, there is still some decent racing to be had online in AC. My advice, is to open a room with "clean" in the heading with an attractive roster of cars. Set the practice to 7 minutes to attract a few racers, and then set qualifying for 12-15 minutes. As the room fills up, this gives everyone time to through down some laps and set a qualifying lap. I have noticed in AC, the fast guys are the clean guys. Even slower paced drivers who are clean are faster than the riff raff. Qualify near the top, and some great racing and ettiquet will be found. I have jumped in many pick up races in AC, and it always seems like I end up in the top 5 in qualifying, and always end up having a great race with a driver or 2. Just today, I had a driver I have never raced, chase me down, patiently waited for an opening, and then went for his shot at a pass. Very minor contact occurred causing me to adjust my line and come off the gas and he went by. However, he slowed to the point of forgoing first to another driver to concede the position back to me he took. He chased me down for 2 more exciting laps until he finally made a clean and impressive pass to finish second. Clean drivers seem to gravitate to each other in AC, at least in my experience with it. Good luck if you give it a try.
 
12,019
United States
Indianapolis
BrandonW77
VBR
What I said was in reference to Playstation Network, not to PC racing (which I have no access to).

I'm aware. I was just letting you know that most of what you want is available on PC if you ever decide to make the jump.
 
1,231
Lebanon
Jounieh
Georgeagea
Brandon, we know that PC offers WAY much customizability and options than consoles can ever dream of.

But the OP is here discussing a sad true fact, which is that an older gen game has more features and options and control than most of the newer modern games have. So it's not something that cannot be implemented in consoles, or something only achievable in PC land, it sadly existed and can still be implemented nowadays, and is existent in GTS, but for some stupid odd unknown reasons, most devs just disregard those.

I've never had any GT game before GTS, but I can imagine the convenience of such control in order to force some clean racing.
 
12,019
United States
Indianapolis
BrandonW77
Brandon, we know that PC offers WAY much customizability and options than consoles can ever dream of.

That wasn't the point I was trying to make, I don't get into those arguments because I feel as long as your sim racing I don't care what platform or hardware your using, we need all the sim racers we can get. I saw a fellow sim racer that I've known for years and have raced with saying he was close to abandoning the hobby so I was just letting him know that most of what he wants is in fact still available (even though I know a PC isn't an option for him right now). That's it, wasn't suggesting everyone should move to PC, just reaching out to one individual.

But the OP is here discussing a sad true fact, which is that an older gen game has more features and options and control than most of the newer modern games have. So it's not something that cannot be implemented in consoles, or something only achievable in PC land, it sadly existed and can still be implemented nowadays, and is existent in GTS, but for some stupid odd unknown reasons, most devs just disregard those.

I've never suggested otherwise. My first comment was that naming the room won't have much effect without the tools necessary to police the room (i.e. the host can boot a player at will). Why they have not included the ability for the host to boot a player is beyond me and seems very short-sighted as it's a fairly essential tool. Why Mr. Simsim got his panties twisted over that comment, which I was essentially agreeing with him on, is also beyond me. I've been on PC for a little over three years now and to this day it still mystifies me why all these supposedly advanced PC sims are still missing basic and essential functions that were found in GT5 nearly 10 years ago on inferior hardware. I can certainly sympathize with your disappointment, imagine my disappointment when after years of watching awesome videos of rFactor, Race07, and GTR I finally get a PC and move away from Gran Turismo, fire up AC only to find it's basically a glorified hot lap simulator that's missing most of the features that GT5, rFactor, Race07, and GTR had many years ago. I've still not gotten over that disappointment, but I have managed to change my expectations and make the best with what's available. I still really really want to be able to paint my car in proper Subaru blue+gold and slap a big 77 on the side without having to employ and external program like Photoshop though. :ouch: Currently iRacing is the only one that allows me to do that.
 
786
United States
United States
If that's what you choose to believe, that's fine. It's wrong, but that's fine.

I guess there's a fine line between elegance and incoherence. So I'll just say this...

Wow!

Now, you go figure out what I meant, let me know, and I'll tell you it wasn't. That ought to clear it up perfectly!

You know, there's no law against typing in whole sentences. You know, if you actually wanted people to understand you. But do you? If 'Wow!' is you agreeing with something, heaven help us if you don't! What word will you use for that? 'Crikey'? 'Yikes'? 'Mmm'?! Be sure to let us know...

I guess English is a dying language! :dunce:
 
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786
United States
United States
BTW, I think you will find me on AC soon. I think I have already figured out a way around the no kick problem. I will ask each driver as they enter to agree to vote with me if I choose a driver to kick. If they refuse, the ones already in will be required to kick him. Gradually, the room should fill up with people willing to abide by a kick rule. If the first person in refuses, I'll close the room.

Anyone already using this system?

BTW, can anyone tell me if AC is mic chat only, or do we have a text box on consoles? Can hosts disable mics in a room?
 
96
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
No mic, no chatbox unless set up by the host on ps4 and personal invites for to up to seven other individuals are sent out.

Back to the drawing board.
 
1,231
Lebanon
Jounieh
Georgeagea
As traks1 said, no chat in-game and no text chat even.
If you're less or equal to 8 people, go for PS4 party chat.
If you're more than 8 people, go to Discord voice chat (I put an earphone from my phone to my ears and then put the PS4 headset on top of it so I can hear both clearly).
 
12,019
United States
Indianapolis
BrandonW77
I guess there's a fine line between elegance and incoherence. So I'll just say this...

Wow!

Now, you go figure out what I meant, let me know, and I'll tell you it wasn't. That ought to clear it up perfectly!

You know, there's no law against typing in whole sentences. You know, if you actually wanted people to understand you. But do you? If 'Wow!' is you agreeing with something, heaven help us if you don't! What word will you use for that? 'Crikey'? 'Yikes'? 'Mmm'?! Be sure to let us know...

I guess English is a dying language! :dunce:

Wow.

BTW, I think you will find me on AC soon. I think I have already figured out a way around the no kick problem. I will ask each driver as they enter to agree to vote with me if I choose a driver to kick. If they refuse, the ones already in will be required to kick him. Gradually, the room should fill up with people willing to abide by a kick rule. If the first person in refuses, I'll close the room.

Anyone already using this system?

BTW, can anyone tell me if AC is mic chat only, or do we have a text box on consoles? Can hosts disable mics in a room?

There is a law against double-posting though, it's quite frowned upon around here.
 
How anybody can even pretend a game has the slightest 'sim' factor without the ability to kick the disruptive elements is beyond belief. For Pete's sake, even poor ridiculed GT Sport, the butt of the jokes about 'simcade' handling is not so incompetent that they omit this essential tool..! :banghead:
This is a pretty bloody ridiculous statement. I mean, really? Add a good kick feature ( which I'm not happy with the current kick feature) and suddenly is a SIM and not a pretend SIM? Ok.
 
786
United States
United States
This is a pretty bloody ridiculous statement. I mean, really? Add a good kick feature ( which I'm not happy with the current kick feature) and suddenly is a SIM and not a pretend SIM? Ok.

No, you got that the wrong way around. A good kick feature does not make an arcade game a sim.

But the lack of a good kick feature makes a sim an arcade game.
 
12,019
United States
Indianapolis
BrandonW77
Of course it does. Why did I even think otherwise! At least when kunos stop the servers the game will finally be a SIM.

I wonder how they managed to make sims before the days of online racing where kick features weren't even a thing yet? I guess they were all arcade games until online multiplayer came along?