Acura TL or Mazda RX-8?

[The359]

Meh, don't worry about pulling out the AUP on him, he's a **** and most of us know it, simple as that. He's abusive is basically any arguement he starts.

 

[Fenrir51]

I agree

 

[///M-Spec]

Originally posted by M5Power
But what are the qualities of a sports car? You say RWD and suspension settings, forsaking speed, handling, and acceleration, where the Impreza and Lancer are real competition.

We talked about this before, in another thread where I highlighted the differences between a sports car and a GT.

Originally posted by M5Power
You seem to be interested in harshness.

Have you driven the RX-8, Impreza, and Lancer?

No, I'm interested in having fun while retaining a certain amount daily usability... as are most car enthusiasts. I already said ride harshness was a reason I wouldn't buy an Evo or WRX STi.

And yes... RX-8 6MT, yes driven it. Lancer Evolution, yes driven it. Impreza WRX sedan 5MT, yes driven it. STi, no haven't yet.

Originally posted by M5Power
I think it makes the wrong series of compromises, and your argument seems to rest on the fairly subjective category of driving experience - not even handling. I'd rather take the potholes than give up 60bhp, two drive wheels, a seat, some spec, and (though miniscule) my sense of style.

I've finally figured out what this reminds of. You're like the Spock of car guys: "Captain, I've completed my analysis of these vehicles. According to my readings the most suitable vehicle is Acura TL, based on measures of interior dimensions, engine power output and overall fit and finish. Any other choice is illogical."

To which my response would be a very Kirk-like, "Yes, very good mister Spock. But which car. Is. The. Most. FUN?"

To which you would respond by silently raising your eyebrows. Spock would never understand sports cars. And I don't think you do either.

Originally posted by M5Power
I live in New York. I don't drive at the car's capacity, ever. So the RX-8 is better in hard driving. I couldn't care less. Usually, people who claim to drive hard accelerate quickly at stoplights and peel out of parking lots.

Okay, that's fine and dandy. But what business do you have putting down the opinions of people who do drive their cars to the limit? You're basically saying "I have no use for these qualities you find so valuable in cars. Therefore you are foolish for wanting them."

Sports cars are about precision, control and balance. About the communication between man and machine and the joy that perfect union can bring. Its about FUN.

Have you ever been to a track? A drag strip? An autocross? Those people are the real car enthusiasts. You don't want to be like them(me), that's perfectly fine. But don't have the nerve to say we're wrong for wanting something different from what you want.

Originally posted by M5Power
And if you ever knock high-powered front-wheel drive vehicles again, I'll have Cadillac come to your door and beat you down.

Bring them on. I'll just utter the words "had fun at Le Mans?" and send them home crying.

Then I'll fly up to NYC and "liberate" that M5 from you. You clearly don't know what you've got.

Originally posted by M5Power
You think an autocross is an objective measure of handling? What are you, off your mind? It's still drivers, drivers **** up. Often. It wouldn't even matter if it were drivers put forth by each company, or the greatest drivers in the world.

It absolutely is. What other objective measure of performance exists other than competition?


M

 

[///M-Spec]

Originally posted by Takumi Fujiwara
I believe you have just made a serious breach of the Acceptable Use Policy.

It doesn't matter wether you "really meant it" or not. It was still a threat to inflict physical harm on another member.

It's cool. I know Doug is kidding and I don't find that remark out of line. I posted something similar a while back when we disagreeed about the M45 v. 545i, so he's just playin.


M

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

Here my short cut opinion:

Mazda RX-8=Finest quad-coupe on the market today.

Acura TL=Finest FWD sedan on the market today.

 

[Div is back]

For me, it all comes down to FUN.

Would you rather drive a TL and feel at the torque steer and everything that comes with a FWD and you would drive without a smile when you feel the car going out of the curve due to understeer.

Or you would rather drive a RX-8 and have fun with the rotary and enjoy the RWD and you would come out of a corner tail whippin' and you would have a big smile on your face!

That's my opinion and that's how I feel regarding those cars.

Sorry for the bad english, I'm a Canadian(quebec = french).

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

I can have fun with FWD's, and I can manage with the torque-steer and understeer, I alrready know the basic characteristic of front-drivers (since I've been driving mostly FWD's all my life, and I have no problems or whatsoever).

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by Takumi Fujiwara
I believe you have just made a serious breach of the Acceptable Use Policy.

It doesn't matter wether you "really meant it" or not. It was still a threat to inflict physical harm on another member.

It's not that I think it's funny, it's that I think it's the single funniest thing you've ever said. You can't prove me wrong when we discuss cars, so you go to that? You rule.

There is a high likelihood that a member of less seniority would be banned for making such a threat.

Stick to a real issue. Maybe you can get on like TurboSmoke and get into a screaming tangent whenever I post a mistake in horsepower number.

"Captain, I've completed my analysis of these vehicles. According to my readings the most suitable vehicle is Acura TL, based on measures of interior dimensions, engine power output and overall fit and finish. Any other choice is illogical."

Yeah, but this is one of the only situations I can think of where I simply think a vehicle is not just over-hyped, but pointless and stupid - and illogical. The Lexus LX450 and LX470 is another example. It makes it difficult for me to debate merits because I honestly don't think the RX-8 has any.

Sports cars are about precision, control and balance. About the communication between man and machine and the joy that perfect union can bring. Its about FUN.

No it's not! It's about harshness! Fun is the STi or the Lancer!

It absolutely is. What other objective measure of performance exists other than competition?

Waiting to use that line?

Check your PM's. Unless they're full

 

[Takumi Fujiwara]

I wasn't really serious. I just thought it would be a great opputunity to call you on a minor technicality.

 

[///M-Spec]

Originally posted by M5Power
Yeah, but this is one of the only situations I can think of where I simply think a vehicle is not just over-hyped, but pointless and stupid - and illogical. The Lexus LX450 and LX470 is another example. It makes it difficult for me to debate merits because I honestly don't think the RX-8 has any.

Let me put it to you one more way --then I give up. For 32k, I think the S2000 is the best sports car you can get on the market right now. For 34k nicely optioned, the G35 6 speed is the best lux-sport coupe. Period. For 31k nicely optioned, the RX-8 is the perfect half-way point between the two cars. You get 95% of the S2000's raw high-rev driving involvement and 95% of the G35's comfort, luxury and speed. It's like you can have 2 cars for the price of one.

It perfectly occupies a part of the market segment where people like me want an S2000, but need more seats; but they don't want to give up the tossable nature of a sub 3000 lb car by getting into a GT-oriented G35 (3500lbs). And judging by Mazda's RX-8 sales, there are a lot of people out there arriving at the same conclusion... not by marketing, but because Mazda makes a car that suits them.

Originally posted by M5Power
No it's not! It's about harshness! Fun is the STi or the Lancer!

They are fun, no arguments there. But an Evo owner can make good side money knocking dentist patients' teeth loose just by taking them for a ride. The RX-8 is just as fun and has a much more realistic ride/handling compromise for a daily driver.


M

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

I strongly agree with you ///M-Spec, the S2000 is the best pure sports car in the $30K to $36K. I also agree that the G35 is the best 2+2 coupe.

 

[Takumi Fujiwara]

The S2000 isn't a sports car. It's a roadster.

However, I agree that it's the best roadster out there for twice the money! (Unless you count the soft top Elise as a roadster)

 

[///M-Spec]

Originally posted by Takumi Fujiwara
The S2000 isn't a sports car. It's a roadster.

Roadster and sports car are not mutually exclusive.

What about the S2000 makes it not a sports car?


M

 

[pimp racer]

Well the TSX and TL all look the same except the TSX looks much sportier which would you guys pick? (both cars are Acuras.)

 

[pimp racer]

i probably would get the TSX over the TL.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

I like the TSX better, not yet ready for a V6.

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by pimp racer
i probably would get the TSX over the TL.

Despite that this is the worst-ever comparison, did you know the TL has now been redesigned and comes standard with a 270bhp 3.2, making it 70 horsepower more powerful than the TSX?

///M-Spec, I get your point, but if you're going to call it a compromise between the S2000 (a full sports car) and the G35 (a luxury coupe), then you've got it impeding on 3-series ground, and there's already a well-established market there. I think it belongs in WRX ground, where it will get more easily trounced in my value-based comparisons.

 

[Takumi Fujiwara]

Originally posted by ///M-Spec
Roadster and sports car are not mutually exclusive.

What about the S2000 makes it not a sports car?


M

In my opinion, a sports car is designed for pure performance. A roadster is designed for an enjoyable driving experiance. I think the S2000 is more fun thatn it is fast. Although it lacks neither.

 

[///M-Spec]

Originally posted by M5Power
///M-Spec, I get your point, but if you're going to call it a compromise between the S2000 (a full sports car) and the G35 (a luxury coupe), then you've got it impeding on 3-series ground, and there's already a well-established market there. I think it belongs in WRX ground, where it will get more easily trounced in my value-based comparisons.

Agree to disagree, Doug. That's cool.


M

 

[Carl.]

Despite that this is the worst-ever comparison, did you know the TL has now been redesigned and comes standard with a 270bhp 3.2, making it 70 horsepower more powerful than the TSX?

well, horsepower is all that matters? A FWD sedan with too much horsepower isn't my definition of "fun to drive"... I saw an idiot in a TL 2 weeks ago trying to pass someone on the shoulder, yes it accelerates hard, but he almost lost it while he was fighting torque steer.
A TSX is more balanced and nimble for a FWD sedan, and I would trade the luxury of the TL for that any day. Honda should have made the TL a RWD to get in the league of G35s and 3 series.

I currently drive a 280hp FWD sedan that kills a stock RX8 in acceleration, but if you ever have an RX8 to trade, give me a call, that would make me an happy man

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by jpmontoya
well, horsepower is all that matters?

Not at all, but with his statement, it seemed to me as if he thought Acura was still attempting to sell the old TL alongside the TSX, rather than the new one.