Advanced Driving Technique

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GTP_Twisted
My apologies if this has been covered before, but I haven't seen it anywhere, so here goes:

Whilst I am able to make small incremental improvements in my driving, without expert help I fear I'm going to be stuck on a relatively lowly plateau for the rest of my racing days. I know from practical experience on motorbikes that a few pointers from the pros can produce leaps forward that would have been impossible otherwise.

So this is really an appeal to those from the top drawer to share some of their experience. I realise that this is like asking Coca-Cola to reveal their recipe, so it would also be much appreciated if you would suggest your most highly-rated reading material, be it on- or offline.

Many thanks 👍
 
One tip i have is don't be affraid to try what you consider is difficult.

When I first joined these guys I used automatic gears, all aids were on and I tried to make everything a s easy as I possibly could. Knowadays it is a different story. I start things the hard way and then start adding a little traction if needed. I only use manual gears witht the sixaxis. Regards the sixaxis try different configs with controls, this may help to make things more comfortable yourself.

The other thing to note is never just jump in the fastest car. I always look for the car with less weight, and then look at Horsepower. My reason been that trying to control a car with loads of weight is an absolute pig if the weight is pulling you off track. All the Horsepower in the world isn't going to make you any faster if you can't put it down on the track.

Overall, alls i am trying to say is try as many different things as possible. If it don't work first time don't dissmiss it as a rubbish idea. Just try again.

Most of all don't worry about **** ups, it is suppossed to be enjoyable.

Yours Grim 👍
 
I dont know is it possible to see others TT-replays with incar-view, but it could be very useful to see their steering+braking+accelerating combinations and technics.

Best advise I have ever get to a racing situation is: 'Slow in, fast out'. ...it was over 20 years ago, and I still haven't find better way.
 
This is also true in real life:

Go slower to go faster.

Quite often you will find yourself "overdriving" in your attempts to go faster.
This is counterproductive.
Stop.
Relax.
Try again, but concentrate on being smooth, hitting apexes, braking points etc. etc.

God , I wish I could follow my own advice. :dunce:
 
I dont know is it possible to see others TT-replays with incar-view, but it could be very useful to see their steering+braking+accelerating combinations and technics.

Best advise I have ever get to a racing situation is: 'Slow in, fast out'. ...it was over 20 years ago, and I still haven't find better way.



If you press enough buttons you'll be able to get cockpit view (or bonnet view, or any other view) and the HUD. Select, X and square (I think?)
 
This is also true in real life:

Go slower to go faster.

Quite often you will find yourself "overdriving" in your attempts to go faster.
This is counterproductive.
Stop.
Relax.
Try again, but concentrate on being smooth, hitting apexes, braking points etc. etc.

God , I wish I could follow my own advice. :dunce:

I wish I could follow that advice as well!
 
Watching people do it , i.e. the TT's mentioned, is all well and good but you can also download their ghosts (not sure how far down the list that option goes though). Now having the fastest ghost lap may be too much for you to follow so see if you can get one closer to your natural times and preferably in the car you want to drive.

Also, practice...alot. Not just lap after lap to see if you're getting better overall. But do a lap with three or four corners in mind (don't try full sections at first, do like corner 1-4-6-10), and the next few laps try a different line through the same corners and KNOW the difference (faster? slower? more/less control?). After a good while, when you're comfortable with all the corners, feel that you have the fastest lines, start working them into a single lap. And heed the advice of others; slow in fast out, turn in late, hit the apex late, all that stuff. It can be a long process but it's a good way to work through it. This is similar to how we teach newcomers at autocross schools.

If you're not already good at adjusting the car's settings, that's a BIG help. But worry about that after you get the lines down.

And don't get discouraged with what seems like too much info coming at you all the time. It happens. To be good, you have to learn to deal with it all.


I did manage to find tips from a guide for Autocrossers, should blend well with general competitive driving, I think. It's a good read.

Driving Tips
Seat time, seat time, seat time. That's the best way to go faster. They say, "Before you fix the car, fix the driver". That's because there's so many techniques to improve your driving, it takes seat time to learn them all, but once you do, someone without those skills would have to spend a lot of money on their car to beat you, and probably still couldn't.

Here are a few techniques to get you started. Don't try to apply them all in your first run, you'll be too busy. But read through the whole list, then work at gaining these skills one at a time.

Look Ahead. I can't emphasize this enough. I repeat it out loud while I am driving. It's so easy to forget, but makes such a big impact on my driving. It all relates to hand-eye (and eye-foot) coordination. Look where you want your hands to drive you, and look far enough ahead to take advantage of the feedback. If you're looking at that outside cone that you're afraid you'll hit, well, you'll hit it. If you're looking ten feet in front of the bumper, the turns will keep surprising you. Imagine looking at your feet while you are running on foot! You won't be very coordinated, and you won't have a good sense of distance or speed. Same goes for driving hard corners as you do in autocross. Look ahead. You will be astounded at your performance the first time you remember to do this all the way through a course.

Slow Down to Go Fast. A common problem when you're starting out is trying to take the tight sections too fast, and not staying in control. I still remember finishing a run and saying, "Well, I didn't go very fast, but it sure was smooth," only to find out I'd gone faster by a full second! Just be patient in the slow spots. They're slow spots, after all.

Brake hard in corners. Go ahead, squeeze the brakes hard. There's no morning coffee on your dashboard, or eggs in the front seat. Once you decide to slow down for the corner, don't waste any time. If you find yourself at a crawl and you're not at the corner yet, why, you've just found out that you can brake later. Locking up your tires will not make you stop faster, so squeeze the brakes and let them do the work, not your tires.

Adhesion. Don't ask too much of your tires. For any tire/pavement pair, there's only a certain amount of traction. We'll call that 100% traction. You can use up that traction with your throttle, your brakes or your steering wheel. So if you're going into a corner, using 100% of your traction to make the turn, what happens when you ask for more traction by applying the brakes? Either you won't brake or you won't turn. Or both. Same goes for accelerating out of a corner. Ease in the throttle as you ease out of the turn. So use full throttle and full braking only in a straight line. This goes back to slowing down to go faster, and brings us to...

Smooth Inputs. You may have noticed that I used the phrases "squeeze the brakes" and "ease in the throttle". This is where you have to change your mind-set about inputs to controlling your car. You need to convince yourself that you can make your car respond better by squeezing the brakes hard instead of standing on the brakes, by rolling in the throttle rapidly instead of stomping on the gas, by turning the wheel quickly instead of cranking it around. Subtle, but it will show up in how often your car is in control instead of scrubbing off speed pushing around a corner. And it will take a lot of practice to become second nature.

Shift near redline. On the street, we don't usually shift near redline (high rpms). But in autocross, you want to be making the most of the power available to you. You'll learn to hear the motor as you drive and stay in a low gear longer. Most courses will be in second gear for stock cars. If you're shifting to third, you're shifting too soon, and giving up power (ask local drivers if this is true in your region).

Launch at 4000 rpm. Each car varies, but try to start at higher rpms than you're used to. Don't "dump" the clutch, or you'll find your wheels spinning. Let it out rapidly and find the right rpms to maintain traction. Higher horsepower cars will want to use lower rpms than less powerful cars.

Don't worry about the blinkers, wipers or horn. You're bound to hit them as you drive. Don't let it throw you. We've all done it!

More, Later... There are many more techniques for getting better times, but start with the ones listed above. After you've learned them, you'll be ready to buy a book on autocrossing (see Recommended Reading), or attend a driver's school and learn the advanced techniques of heel/toe, shuffle steer, late apex, and more.

Go to as many events as you can. Go to the ones with the toughest competition - winning something local is fun, but losing to someone fast will probably teach you more. Attend drivers' schools in your area, or travel to another region. Do some Pro Solo2 events; these are explained in more detail later in this book. They give you 12 runs on a fairly short course, with time to walk between runs and a chance to drive against real national competition.

Always remember to have fun, even when you are being stomped by some national hotshoe. You'll never stop learning - the best drivers will tell you this still applies after ten or twenty years! Remember, seat-time, seat-time, seat-time. Nothing will make you go faster sooner. And nothing is less expensive in improving your times.

damn i must be bored to post all this...lol
 
👍 Fantastic, this is all great stuff guys, thanks very much. Look forward to putting it into practice.

Cheers
 
Exit speed is the single most important thing in setting fast lap times... the sooner you can get on the throttle exiting a corner, the faster you'll be travelling all the way along the next straight. This is far more important than a few mph of turn-in speed.

So avoid turn-in understeer at all costs... if you're going in too hot and sliding wide of the apex you'll be losing huge amounts of time.
 
This is also true in real life:

Go slower to go faster.

Quite often you will find yourself "overdriving" in your attempts to go faster.
This is counterproductive.
Stop.
Relax.
Try again, but concentrate on being smooth, hitting apexes, braking points etc. etc.

God , I wish I could follow my own advice. :dunce:

Great advice!!! Also, look beyond your hood. To many people just stare at what is happening right in front of them rather than scout the path ahead. many wrecks could be avoided and laps times will improve if ya just plan.
 
Lots of good advice so far.

As Stotty says, exit speed is the most important. But there are some corners (Denger, Spoon, and 130R at Suzuka, for example) that are frequently taken too conservatively on entrance. Knowing a target apex speed (from a replay or another skilled driver) can help you find where you are losing time. If you can't get close to the ideal apex speed, then you need to work on your entrance.
 
Look Ahead. I can't emphasize this enough. I repeat it out loud while I am driving. It's so easy to forget, but makes such a big impact on my driving. It all relates to hand-eye (and eye-foot) coordination. Look where you want your hands to drive you, and look far enough ahead to take advantage of the feedback. If you're looking at that outside cone that you're afraid you'll hit, well, you'll hit it. If you're looking ten feet in front of the bumper, the turns will keep surprising you. Imagine looking at your feet while you are running on foot! You won't be very coordinated, and you won't have a good sense of distance or speed. Same goes for driving hard corners as you do in autocross. Look ahead. You will be astounded at your performance the first time you remember to do this all the way through a course.

Absolutely the best advice. I remember how much the instructor emphasized this when I went the the Bondurant school. When I was first trying the S class I was struggling as many do. I kept missing my apexes and sliding off track. Then I remembered this rule: Keep your eyes up. Look where you're going, not where you are. It was like magic. I was suddenly hitting my apexes like magic.
 
Some great advice above there's not really much left to say the only thing I would add is I would learn to drive a animal of a car like a Z06 etc something front engine rear wheel drive with plenty of torque, there is many to choose from.

I say this because I feel you will notice the improvments in you lap easier. Instead of been 2 tenths faster a lap you may be 2 seconds so you can really see where you have improved and what has worked, also when you go back to a car that is already easy to drive you will still notice how smooth you have become!

You want to get used to applying as much power as there is grip and feeding the power in, Suzuka is a great track to practice offering many challenges from keeping all the power down out the hairpin to keeping the car as flat and smooth through the fast turns, not to mention getting through the S's with out drifting but still being fast.

Tires are important I would try s3's on the Z06 so that you have to apply the throttle carefully in places but its not to wild and then when you get used to it start putting less gripy tires on but make sure to keep them even!

In races Consistancy/rythem is key if you can make you style and the lap the same each time lap after lap then you will be flying, Push the car to your limits an then relax a bit, but not to much or you will loose concentration just stay in your groove, only really push it when you are in a proper race with someone faster than you, There is no point in going balls out and lapping a second faster a lap but your all over the place on the edge, you will only loose more time in the gravel than you would have done taking your foot off the gas a little lol

Just a link below to a TOP GEAR episode where Sir Jackie Stewart taught Captain Slow aka JAMES MAY how to drive fast in a proper man's car, he knocks 20 seconds off his lap time.


http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Bps9Qm34cAc
 
I don't think I've read this many times on this thread, but then I have only skimmed it to be honest...

Basically what I personally have discerned from watching all kinds of racing and from pros sharing knowledge and what have you, you basically have to keep steering inputs to a minimum, understand how tyres work (they have limited amounts of traction, and steering and braking uses it up) and don't treat the throttle as a digital device, it's not just on or off.

And as has been said, just chill out, recognise where you'll be able to pass and where you won't, and plan your passing moves out according to how well you know the track. For example, you know you won't be able to pass before turn 1 if the car in front is four car lengths ahead of you at the start/finish line of Fuji, so instead of trying to outbrake them to get an advantage (and possibly come off your desired line), take it easy and pass them on the straight after the turn, or the long right hander before the tight left. You'll come to recognise passing places (tip: straights are usually quite good, corners are usually tricky!) and you'll be able to pace yourself accordingly, instead of constantly overdriving to catch up, losing your line and rhythm, and going off the track.
 
👍

Really appreciate everyone's input on this, thanks for all your advice.

Of the forums I've been a part of, this really is the best. It's a real pleasure being a part of such a great community.

:)
 
👍

Really appreciate everyone's input on this, thanks for all your advice.

Of the forums I've been a part of, this really is the best. It's a real pleasure being a part of such a great community.

:)

Racers help racers. Even if it is virtual lol.
 
Great advise from a lot of you, just to add one thing, in practicing cornering,(seems a little obvious but easily overlooked),as you gain mid corner and exit speed remember that your terminal speed will be increased as you reach the next corner, so depending on the nature of the next turn,you will need to adjust your braking marker or in the case of something like Suzuka esses, you will need to turn in earlier and/or adjust your line in,this will inturn change the line and speed into the next and so on.The idea in Suzuka is to enter and exit 5turns linked together as though it was one .Remember there is only one ultimate line in and out of a corner given the traction/speed.
 
Shift near redline. On the street, we don't usually shift near redline (high rpms). But in autocross, you want to be making the most of the power available to you. You'll learn to hear the motor as you drive and stay in a low gear longer. Most courses will be in second gear for stock cars. If you're shifting to third, you're shifting too soon, and giving up power (ask local drivers if this is true in your region).

One more thing occurs to me... This rule is definately valid in the game, but you should shift near the rev limit for most cars.

And while I'm on the topic, you should set up your gears close so you keep your revs up when shifting.

And when you pick up the throttle coming off a corner be aware of turbo lag if you are running a turbo car. With some cars there is a noticable delay between picking up the throttle and boost coming up (like the Mines and Blitz). When driving these cars you will need to pick up the throttle just a fraction earlier so your power comes on when you want it. You can also feed in a little throttle through the corner just to keep the turbo spinning and reduce the lag when you pick up the throttle. This is especially important if you need to use throttle to catch the rear when it slides.
 
This is a piece of advice that came in handy for me on GT5-P but it did take a while to sink in so be paicent.

Use your steering angel with your throttle, say if your turning with lots of angle use little throttle to non and if you have very little steering angle use almost to full throttle. Modulate your throttle to your steering and it really helps.
For instance you can get on the throttle earlyer and with more of it you know to straighten the steering up coming out the turns earlyer.

Well anyway i hope that helps a little.
 
This is a piece of advice that came in handy for me on GT5-P but it did take a while to sink in so be paicent.

Use your steering angel with your throttle, say if your turning with lots of angle use little throttle to non and if you have very little steering angle use almost to full throttle. Modulate your throttle to your steering and it really helps.
For instance you can get on the throttle earlyer and with more of it you know to straighten the steering up coming out the turns earlyer.

Well anyway i hope that helps a little.

zodicus did a good job of explaining this, restated below in my own words:

Imagine that there is a string running from your throttle to the steering wheel, and another from your brake to the steering.
More brake means less steering, and you can have a smooth transition from hard braking and no turning to less braking and turn-in (also called trail braking).
The same applies when applying the gas coming out of a corner. When turning hard, you apply very little throttle, but as you unwind, you can slowly apply more throttle, up until you are pointing straight and at full throttle.
 
EDIT: Sorry, a couple of the amazon links were broken. Just do a search for "speed secrets" at amazon and you'll find a good bit of reading on the subject.

http://www.netflix.com/Movie/Grand_Prix/60010408

As has been mentioned elsewhere: Smoother = Faster

Or, as one of the best Autocross drivers I know told me: "The slower you look like you are going, the faster you are going."
 
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Time Trials? This is a very good place to practice all of the techniques described here. Learn how to get the car to go fast on S class tires and that skill will transfer over to Racing tires.. Take your fav car out on the Time Trials and get good at doing that.
 
I have only played this game for the last 3 months but all the advise given is spot on.
Go watch the Top Gear link with Jackie Stewart, the main point I got from that was "Dont power out of a corner unless you can floor it" in other words you wont tend to spin out or drift.

My tip (interpretation) which is based on other comments of be smooth thru corners/ es's is to listen to the "tire squeal" (turn the music down if you have to), if you can hear it you either dont have full control ie. oversteer, or you are not getting full power/traction to the ground ie. drift.
The less tire squeal the smoother your drive, the more control you have, this comes back to drive slower to go faster.

If you download the fastest ghost watch it and then load it and follow it. Just remember to stay smooth not try to catch him/her, and you will find (at least I do) you will immediately start to shave some time off you previous best time (up to a point), but if you find you are almost on the ghost's tail, turn it off as it then becomes a distraction.

I drive with a wheel and not controllers (pearsonal pref) but hats off to the guys that do.

Enjoy
Grizzleski01
 
just push your self. I learnd best with all aids off. You get to feel the car for what it is.

As for the ghost...i think its good to keep on. It is a distraction, but, it teaches you to drive with other people on a track. If you can catch up, or even pass the ghost...you are doing well. Its also good practice for online.
 
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My tip (interpretation) which is based on other comments of be smooth thru corners/ es's is to listen to the "tire squeal" (turn the music down if you have to), if you can hear it you either dont have full control ie. oversteer, or you are not getting full power/traction to the ground ie. drift.
The less tire squeal the smoother your drive, the more control you have, this comes back to drive slower to go faster.

This suggestion I would have to disagree with. How the game models tire squeal is one thing, but in real life (and to some extent the game as well), some amount of tire squeal is expected when pushing the limits of traction. In fact, for throttle/brake induced steering to work, the tires must be very near the traction limit, and most likely would be squealing. With Spec III, tire squeal is more evident than before, and it's a nice audio clue that you are nearing the traction limit.

Ross Bentley's bits of wisdom have been sprinkled about in this thread, to which I would add (to address the above):
"22. If the car feels like it is on rails, you are probably driving too slow."
 
This suggestion I would have to disagree with. How the game models tire squeal is one thing, but in real life (and to some extent the game as well), some amount of tire squeal is expected when pushing the limits of traction. In fact, for throttle/brake induced steering to work, the tires must be very near the traction limit, and most likely would be squealing. With Spec III, tire squeal is more evident than before, and it's a nice audio clue that you are nearing the traction limit.

Ross Bentley's bits of wisdom have been sprinkled about in this thread, to which I would add (to address the above):
"22. If the car feels like it is on rails, you are probably driving too slow."

Yeah i agree with you Vaxen, i went to the Nurb this year and all i heard when the test drivers went round was tyres squeal in every turn. But its true that when you start to hear the squeal your reaching the limit of the tyres.
 
Sure real life is different, my comment was only trying to help to give additional clues.
Telling someone how to drive the perfect line with appropriate braking and feel..etc is great, just like a lecture, but I have found in my learning something tangible like sound and graphics and even feed back in the wheel is just another way to help explain or make others aware.

SPec I had more squeal, SpecII turned it down, Spec III back up again.

As a guide it does help as does all other info posted, like anything, read it and take away what works for you.

I may be a newbie myself but still manage to make some Top 10 placings in TT's (Mitsu GSR07 and Nissan GT-RO7) on various courses based on what I have said and gleaned from other info posted.

With respect, works for me and still learning (even for an old man)
 
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