Advice for improving cornering?
- Thread starter georgiebest
- 75 comments
- 5,744 views
- 5,785
- Norman, OK
- McClarenDesign
MSTER232
Tuning is no replacement for technique. If you cant drive it fast stock, you wont be fast tuned.
- 4,881
- Stockholm
- chorda / GTP_chorda
- 1,616
- Australia
- GTP_ealirendur
georgiebestHi all.
I currently play with an old PS3 controller, that doesn't even have vibrate so it is difficult at the moment to judge when I am at the "limit" would buying a DS3 be worth while? I am considering just buying a driving force GT wheel, can any one tell me if that wheel is good, and will I be faster with a wheel and enjoy the game more?
Thanks in advance
There's been some good advice in the thread so far, so I thought I'd speak to this part - I can't imagine how difficult it must be with no feedback/rumble at all (actually, I sort of can. I had an old downloaded demo of F1 CE, and loaded it up briefly before deleting it. It seemed dead, by comparison). On the DS3, you can feel ABS/traction loss kicking in while braking, and the rears losing traction on acceleration, and there's also rumble indication of when slip angle is being exceeded at higher speeds.
I would definitely get a DS3 just for the feedback, or consider a wheel. I went with a G27 - but only because there happened to be a special on at the time, and have been very pleased with it (and had a recommendation from a fellow dad that it was quiet!). Some folks have actually praised the DFGT as a better wheel, in some respects (apparently not the pedals, so much), but there's many sources of info for that.
A wheel won't make you faster straight away; I'm quicker now, but it's been a few months, and I'd certainly not nearly maxed out the possibilities on controller (so more larnin' there could have been had). Be aware that GT5 has a built in steering assist for the DS3 that manages your maximum slip-angle, and also makes it quite a bit easier to countersteer when correction is needed, and this is the area that will catch you out at first on a wheel, but the experience is MUCH more engaging.
A note on the steering input thing with controller - it's interesting to use cockpit view (especially in a premium), at least in replay, to see what's happening with the wheel inputs (and the difference in response at speed). That can be handy for either using less input, or getting a better idea of the timing when steering, especially removing steering angle on exit. Also, unless you've changed the button layout, the DS3 can't do the equivalent of heel and toe ( I preferred the feel of the right stick for throttle/brake, but moved to L2/R2 and right stick gear shift, but layouts vary a fair bit - and there's some warriors who go fast just with buttons...)
Your attitude toward analysis, practice and improvement tell me you probably will!
Seasonal TT's and the WRS are good sources of replays to analyze, also.
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- 104
- Georgiesbest
Hey, thanks for the information Ealirendur.
I ordered a DFGT today, arrives some time next week really looking forward to it. I think I have taken the standard ps3 controller to the limit. I always drive with the drivers view, it helps when there is no feedback because you can see the steering wheel inputs, like you mentioned.
I've used the data logger on the practice mode to look at what I am doing in more detail. My braking and acceleration inputs are as smooth and progressive as I can make them (they kinda suck with controllers, even using the L2/R2 buttons they don't seem to increase at a constant rate). The main issue with controllers is steering input. It is incredibly difficult, especially with the faster cars, to turn in progressively and slowly out to accelerate.
Been experimenting with trail braking quite a lot recently by tapping the brakes on entry to induce oversteer and it really boosts how much speed you can enter the corners, and therefore what you carry through mid corner and on exit. Lap times have improved quite a lot by doing this, looking forward to perfecting it with a wheel.
I ordered a DFGT today, arrives some time next week
really looking forward to it. I think I have taken the standard ps3 controller to the limit. I always drive with the drivers view, it helps when there is no feedback because you can see the steering wheel inputs, like you mentioned.I've used the data logger on the practice mode to look at what I am doing in more detail. My braking and acceleration inputs are as smooth and progressive as I can make them (they kinda suck with controllers, even using the L2/R2 buttons they don't seem to increase at a constant rate). The main issue with controllers is steering input. It is incredibly difficult, especially with the faster cars, to turn in progressively and slowly out to accelerate.
Been experimenting with trail braking quite a lot recently by tapping the brakes on entry to induce oversteer and it really boosts how much speed you can enter the corners, and therefore what you carry through mid corner and on exit. Lap times have improved quite a lot by doing this, looking forward to perfecting it with a wheel.
- 164
I think that`s your main problem. From my experience you lose alot of grip once you hit the throttle, no matter how gently. As a Joypad user you should roll through a corner and like McClarenDesign said only accelerate if you sure you don`t have to lift. You can practice this very well with a 4x4WD like the Subra WRX STI.
You`ll notice whenever you touch the throttle your line through a corner will increase significantly. And I for myself don`t think it`s worth only to "keep" some speed. Just think about it. If you have to accelerate during a corner because you think you could have went in faster, you should go in faster beforehand instead.
No by using a steering wheel you can overact, the joypad input will sort this out to some point.
Another reason not to accelerate through a corner, only while exiting.
- 104
- Georgiesbest
Really?
Whenever I see the top ranking time trial replays for the seasonals, even with controllers, they always use trailing throttle to maintain speed. The problem arises from the fact that with the lighter cars like the F1, they lose speed quickly and you get lift off oversteer if you don't use a little throttle to keep speed up in some corners.
Whenever I see the top ranking time trial replays for the seasonals, even with controllers, they always use trailing throttle to maintain speed. The problem arises from the fact that with the lighter cars like the F1, they lose speed quickly and you get lift off oversteer if you don't use a little throttle to keep speed up in some corners.
- 1,616
- Australia
- GTP_ealirendur
It really does depend on the car (not everything has lift-off oversteer to manage), but there's also rev-matching to think about, and steering with your right foot. The arsenal of techniques available to use is quite large, but they're rarely all required at once, and good drivers seem to know when to use all the bits, or not.
Note that one technique I've sometimes seen used to cope with the DS3 high-speed steering limitation is, when tuning is available, to use a relatively high LSD accel setting - precisely to get more throttle steering. Like most things, It's a trade-off, of course. It's possible, for example, to either cope with a much twitchier setup on controller (more extreme tune generally), or at least not notice the understeer on turn-in induced by something like that diff setting.
Or just avoid ovals and High Speed Ring
Note that one technique I've sometimes seen used to cope with the DS3 high-speed steering limitation is, when tuning is available, to use a relatively high LSD accel setting - precisely to get more throttle steering. Like most things, It's a trade-off, of course. It's possible, for example, to either cope with a much twitchier setup on controller (more extreme tune generally), or at least not notice the understeer on turn-in induced by something like that diff setting.
Or just avoid ovals and High Speed Ring
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- 92
- United States
- StealingL2
If you roll through a corner aren’t you losing a lot of speed? From what I read the past few days about braking, your foot should still be kept on the brake pedal all the way from the brake point past the turn point and all the way to the apex. That’s when you make the transition to the throttle pedal and throttle smoothly out which is what I normally do. But for some tighter turns like hairpins that are a little harder to judge, I find it necessary to hold the throttle through otherwise I lose speed if I just roll. Lets say it I know it’s a 60mph corner I’m headed for once I brake all the way to the turn point not the apex this time, I would come off the brakes and press the throttle at about 10%-20% right away to hold it at 60mph for the rest of the turn. If I roll after I come off the brakes, my speed will drop way below 60mph.
- 419
- South Yorkshire
- GTP_Thedeester1
I disagree..I once made an Evo that owned Fuji for a week on GT prologue...I was so dominant they changed the PP requirements....or so I like to think....I was never beaten with that Evo..
However My tips are turn off the racing line and find the one that suites your car....Its different for every car! Then try to use manual gears. if the torque to revs is too slow you can change down a gear. Thats the reason I think you see people in a lower gear!
PS. most of the tuning should be in your gears....Dont waste a gear change!
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- 104
- Georgiesbest
- 164
Well if we are talking about long turns you have to keep some speed with low but steady throttle otherwise you would stop before you exit such corners.
But I don`t think these type of corners are a problem to master anyway.
This is sort of an endless discussion. It is more about driving style, than right or wrong.
If you are doing a hotlap for your own timeboard you`re probably have a slight variation with driving techniques than lets say going for 30 laps in a onlinerace on racing medium/hard.
I highly recommend to pick a Takadome NSX at Suzuka. And watch this quick snap in with its nose once you lift off your foot from the throttle and don`t brake. To a certain extent this effect is part of the Midengine layout but also something very general about the game mechanics. At this point your maximum griplevel for turning occurs and you will realize throttle or braking is always a trade in, not a free bonus.
I also recommend trying to drive both S combinations on Suzuka east without braking as fast as possible.
-edit-
Maybe it`s a 65mph corner but you are constantly asking your car to do something else but turning. Shifting weight back and forth, brake, accelerate, but not 100% turning.
In general the time you`ll need to make a turn is a summary of entry speed, drive through speed and exit speed. Speed=time. And those parts will affect each other or lets say they can suffer or benefit from each other. There is no 60mp/h from entry till exit unless your driving a Prius. Speed/Time can be a smooth transition or a harsh change.
I am not saying one technique is better than the other, it can even change for every corner (S combination vs. hairpin).
But I don`t think these type of corners are a problem to master anyway.
This is sort of an endless discussion. It is more about driving style, than right or wrong.
If you are doing a hotlap for your own timeboard you`re probably have a slight variation with driving techniques than lets say going for 30 laps in a onlinerace on racing medium/hard.
I highly recommend to pick a Takadome NSX at Suzuka. And watch this quick snap in with its nose once you lift off your foot from the throttle and don`t brake. To a certain extent this effect is part of the Midengine layout but also something very general about the game mechanics. At this point your maximum griplevel for turning occurs and you will realize throttle or braking is always a trade in, not a free bonus.
I also recommend trying to drive both S combinations on Suzuka east without braking as fast as possible.
-edit-
Maybe it`s a 65mph corner but you are constantly asking your car to do something else but turning. Shifting weight back and forth, brake, accelerate, but not 100% turning.
In general the time you`ll need to make a turn is a summary of entry speed, drive through speed and exit speed. Speed=time. And those parts will affect each other or lets say they can suffer or benefit from each other. There is no 60mp/h from entry till exit unless your driving a Prius. Speed/Time can be a smooth transition or a harsh change.
I am not saying one technique is better than the other, it can even change for every corner (S combination vs. hairpin).
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- 33
- DC
- imtomtomim
I definitely do not go through a corner with no throttle. If I happen to do that, it's because I've made a mistake setting up the exit. It was said before that some people take 10-20% throttle and ride that out. That's the basic idea, I rather think of it as balancing the throttle. If I'm coasting, it means I'm slowing down, I never want to be slowing down past apex, that's my chance to get out of there, not sit around and wait for it. Also, it sits that little bit of extra weight on the rear which helps plant you down on the way out, giving you smoother acceleration. This is especially important in the MR cars and especially RR. You need to balance the throttle going through the apex to keep the chassis balanced. Ride the wave of understeer out.
I'm not an amazing driver by any means, but since I got my g27 a month ago, I've been dedicating a lot of practice and studying to my racing and it's brought me to a very competitive level. When I practice, I find myself working on how to feed the car through sections of multiple corners which end up in high speed or open areas where your lines can be more creative without giving much up. My goal is to feed that car from one end and spit it out the other in the least time as possible. Speed is only a tool, efficiency is what makes you fast and effective, true of any sport. Clock tells you what's fast, not the speedometer.
I remember someone stating that oversteer was faster through the corners, and yes, when I'm going through these sectors that I described above, I do like oversteer to get through it, but at the exit of any important corner, I want understeer. I want that rear to dedicate all the grip for acceleration, not as much for steering.
Those videos by Ross Bentley on youtube are quite informative. I'd definitely recommend them.
I'm not an amazing driver by any means, but since I got my g27 a month ago, I've been dedicating a lot of practice and studying to my racing and it's brought me to a very competitive level. When I practice, I find myself working on how to feed the car through sections of multiple corners which end up in high speed or open areas where your lines can be more creative without giving much up. My goal is to feed that car from one end and spit it out the other in the least time as possible. Speed is only a tool, efficiency is what makes you fast and effective, true of any sport. Clock tells you what's fast, not the speedometer.
I remember someone stating that oversteer was faster through the corners, and yes, when I'm going through these sectors that I described above, I do like oversteer to get through it, but at the exit of any important corner, I want understeer. I want that rear to dedicate all the grip for acceleration, not as much for steering.
Those videos by Ross Bentley on youtube are quite informative. I'd definitely recommend them.
- 164
Well I`ve reached this point countless times now. You are talking about a G27 wheel and I am talking about a Joypad which was the initial point from georgiebest on this thread.
You can steer harder with a wheel but also risking serious oversteer/understeer.
I `ve used both wheel and joypad. From the perspective of the joypad there is a small gap left to make a tighter turn with a wheel not far away from losing your car or oversteer/understeer way too much.
And If it`s not for very different input types people talking about its about a stock everyday car on comfort softs versus a GT500 on racing soft.
"No no you have to..."
Well If you are going 300km/h on a racing car and still 20 laps to go you have to do something different than doing Season Event xx with 450lp on comfort tyres.
Anyway...
..because GT5 has a range from Citroen C2 up to 908 HDI this is getting nowhere atm in my opinion.
You can steer harder with a wheel but also risking serious oversteer/understeer.
I `ve used both wheel and joypad. From the perspective of the joypad there is a small gap left to make a tighter turn with a wheel not far away from losing your car or oversteer/understeer way too much.
And If it`s not for very different input types people talking about its about a stock everyday car on comfort softs versus a GT500 on racing soft.
"No no you have to..."
Well If you are going 300km/h on a racing car and still 20 laps to go you have to do something different than doing Season Event xx with 450lp on comfort tyres.
Anyway...
..because GT5 has a range from Citroen C2 up to 908 HDI this is getting nowhere atm in my opinion.
- 104
- Georgiesbest
I mentioned using 10-20% throttle input through the corner as a rough guide. It depends what speed I am going, but I normally do as you say imtomtomim, by trying to balance things so I am going a constant speed.
Accept your death, the reason not using any throttle works for that hairpin is because if you take the right line through a hairpin, there should be no mid-corner. For tight hairpins you should be trailbraking right up to the apex, and then powering out as soon as you reach it. Also it is a slow corner, so you should be using a later apex.
The reason I started to using trailing throttle so much was because Schumacher does it. People say that he had the best driving technique in history, because he could get into a car that would naturally understeer, make it oversteer in entry with trail braking to get a high entry speed, get on the throttle straight away to maintain that speed through the mid corner, and then progressively add the throttle to accelerate out at the exit with slight understeer. There is no way to corner faster than that.
Until my DFGT comes, I am experimenting using the right analog stick for braking and throttle. A technique I have found interesting is to point the stick directly down to brake, and then as I begin steering in, rotate the stick around its maximum radius circle to control how slowly i come off the brakes, how much throttle I give and then progressively add it smoothly. So going straight down and then around in a semi-circle to the front. I wish I had thought of doing this before, because when you do this, the brake and throttle increase/decrease completely linearly and it is much easier to control and be precise with.
edit:
Acceptyourdeath, calm down. This isn't an argument, this is just discussing different techniques, so we can see what works best for different people. I wish that when I first started playing i had access to all the information in this thread because it would have greatly sped up the learning curve for me and I could be a much better driver now.
Accept your death, the reason not using any throttle works for that hairpin is because if you take the right line through a hairpin, there should be no mid-corner. For tight hairpins you should be trailbraking right up to the apex, and then powering out as soon as you reach it. Also it is a slow corner, so you should be using a later apex.
The reason I started to using trailing throttle so much was because Schumacher does it. People say that he had the best driving technique in history, because he could get into a car that would naturally understeer, make it oversteer in entry with trail braking to get a high entry speed, get on the throttle straight away to maintain that speed through the mid corner, and then progressively add the throttle to accelerate out at the exit with slight understeer. There is no way to corner faster than that.
Until my DFGT comes, I am experimenting using the right analog stick for braking and throttle. A technique I have found interesting is to point the stick directly down to brake, and then as I begin steering in, rotate the stick around its maximum radius circle to control how slowly i come off the brakes, how much throttle I give and then progressively add it smoothly. So going straight down and then around in a semi-circle to the front. I wish I had thought of doing this before, because when you do this, the brake and throttle increase/decrease completely linearly and it is much easier to control and be precise with.
edit:
Acceptyourdeath, calm down. This isn't an argument, this is just discussing different techniques, so we can see what works best for different people. I wish that when I first started playing i had access to all the information in this thread because it would have greatly sped up the learning curve for me and I could be a much better driver now.
- 164
I wasn`t really upset, it just a bit annoying some times.
- 92
- United States
- StealingL2
In real life when I drive to work and school, I normally would brake hard gradually all the way into the apex for safety (gradually braking hard also allows me to easily stop the car if needed during an emergency compared to just stepping on just 20-30% of the brake pedal instead) mostly when making a 90 degree turn or sharper given that its sometimes hard to judge where to brake before, especially in downtown/city roads like this in the United States with tight sharp intersections and stuff. I dont see why you wouldnt brake hard into a corner its just common natural instinct, what if you dont brake enough? Like Im coming up for a turn that eventually requires 80% of the brake pedal to be pushed down but instead I accidentally press only about 50%, its gonna be too late to correct if I have already reached my turning point
Ive also been applying the same technique in GT5 but it seems to not be the right way to drive and should be the other way around. I guess I need to change my braking in GT5 and real life too and start using partial braking and easing off the brake pedal once I reach my turning point? Real life or not Im scared that if I ease off or let go too soon I will have just plowed right ahead of whatever was in front of me. That is why I always brake hard all the way through the turn incase and then throttle out.
Ive also been applying the same technique in GT5 but it seems to not be the right way to drive and should be the other way around. I guess I need to change my braking in GT5 and real life too and start using partial braking and easing off the brake pedal once I reach my turning point? Real life or not Im scared that if I ease off or let go too soon I will have just plowed right ahead of whatever was in front of me. That is why I always brake hard all the way through the turn incase and then throttle out.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
I've raced quite a bit online and my experience indicates that braking is a major issue for at least 80% of drivers and it comes down to 1 major and 1 minor thing.
The major thing is braking too late/deep. Most guys online can't seem to find or use braking points and end up braking way too late, especially on the hard braking corners, like the first corner at Road Course Indy or Deep Forest. Braking too late and going off the racing line onto the marbles on the outside of the track with a slight loss of control can be good for a second or more lost in one corner alone. Do that a couple of times a lap and you're 10 seconds behind in 4 laps, just from braking. Most online racers would be much faster if they found and used braking points and underbraked as opposed to over braked. Underbraking may cost you a few tenths but you'll run the same fast laps over and over and in time, you'll learn to get much closer to the absolute limit. Braking too deep you'll never learn the limit.
Brake balance and overall brake strength is minor issue I see. Each car/tire combination has a good brake balance point that allows the car to brake and turn at the same time without losing the back end. With a wheel I've found it's a little different setting than with a DS3. Because I use the square button for braking on the DS3 I'm full on or full off, so I tend to go with slightly higher front bias like 5/3, 4/2 etc. With a wheel it's generally closer to 5/5. From what I've seen I think a lot of DS3 guys are running online with 4/6 or 5/7 or maybe higher and any time they are under pressure or slightly miss a braking point, the rear end comes out, they lose a second or more, lose the draft and drop back. Remember too that the higher the brake settings the more likely the car is to become unbalanced under braking. Lower brake settings allow the car to remain well balance and leads to more predictable cornering and smoother driving. Only use high settings for time trials and perhaps qualifying runs for that extra tenth or two.
The major thing is braking too late/deep. Most guys online can't seem to find or use braking points and end up braking way too late, especially on the hard braking corners, like the first corner at Road Course Indy or Deep Forest. Braking too late and going off the racing line onto the marbles on the outside of the track with a slight loss of control can be good for a second or more lost in one corner alone. Do that a couple of times a lap and you're 10 seconds behind in 4 laps, just from braking. Most online racers would be much faster if they found and used braking points and underbraked as opposed to over braked. Underbraking may cost you a few tenths but you'll run the same fast laps over and over and in time, you'll learn to get much closer to the absolute limit. Braking too deep you'll never learn the limit.
Brake balance and overall brake strength is minor issue I see. Each car/tire combination has a good brake balance point that allows the car to brake and turn at the same time without losing the back end. With a wheel I've found it's a little different setting than with a DS3. Because I use the square button for braking on the DS3 I'm full on or full off, so I tend to go with slightly higher front bias like 5/3, 4/2 etc. With a wheel it's generally closer to 5/5. From what I've seen I think a lot of DS3 guys are running online with 4/6 or 5/7 or maybe higher and any time they are under pressure or slightly miss a braking point, the rear end comes out, they lose a second or more, lose the draft and drop back. Remember too that the higher the brake settings the more likely the car is to become unbalanced under braking. Lower brake settings allow the car to remain well balance and leads to more predictable cornering and smoother driving. Only use high settings for time trials and perhaps qualifying runs for that extra tenth or two.
- 104
- Georgiesbest
Got a DFGT and have been using it lots.
Really enjoying it. GT5 is like a different game with it, the amount of feedback is just amazing compared to what I am used to.
Didn't take me too long to adjust to it either, already putting down laps faster than before.
Really enjoying it. GT5 is like a different game with it, the amount of feedback is just amazing compared to what I am used to.
Didn't take me too long to adjust to it either, already putting down laps faster than before.
- 354
- Netherlands
- YuRiPa84
Isn't it better for any car to have a brake bias that's more to the front than to the back anyway? That's how I set up my cars (also using a DS3 and the square button for braking), still using similar techniques as I did way back with the GP F1 race games from Microprose. There they said to use about 75% front, and 25% back brake bias (which I try to use with GT5 too), but with GT5 on these forums, I don't see many car set-ups having a 75-25% brake bias. But guess it's different per car too.
Many people here say once you've cleared the apex, just go full throttle.. But using a DS3 with the X-button for acceleration, it's really hard to then control the LMP and Group C cars.. If someone uses a DS3 the same way and has some tips on improving stability for exiting corners in high powered cars, that would be great.
- 104
- Georgiesbest
Many people here say once you've cleared the apex, just go full throttle.. But using a DS3 with the X-button for acceleration, it's really hard to then control the LMP and Group C cars.. If someone uses a DS3 the same way and has some tips on improving stability for exiting corners in high powered cars, that would be great.
Put Brake on L2 and Throttle on R2. It's not perfect, but it is about the best you can do with a controller allowing you to modulate the throttle and brake some what. I have no idea how you are playing with just the x button, I find it infuriating using triangle for reverse alone in high-powered cars.
- 354
- Netherlands
- YuRiPa84
Yeah, guess I'll try that sometime again. Tried it once, didn't really like it, but for modulating acceleration and braking it might be worthwhile.
- 5,785
- Norman, OK
- McClarenDesign
YuRiPaYeah, guess I'll try that sometime again. Tried it once, didn't really like it, but for modulating acceleration and braking it might be worthwhile.
I still use default settings, so you aren't alone.
- 1,094
- The DOGG house
- WAGG__da__DOGG
I'll paste something that Gar529, a GT Academy finalist that went to Silverstone last year wrote recently. He's an amazing driver and I have raced against him and watched the replay and just went " wooooow " . I hope it's okay to re-post something from another site, if not I'm sure it'll be deleted. This is Gar's response to someone wanting get better at Deep Forest Raceway. This is from the Official Playstation forums.
Gar529
Gar529 Lombax Warrior
Lombax Warrior 705 posts since
Mar 13, 2005
30. Apr 16, 2012 9:08 PM (in response to audioinstaller)
Re: Post Your GT5 Race Video's
audioinstaller wrote:
this is a best lap replay of me driving my Lotus Elise RM '96 at Deep Forest Raceway
enjoy
any tips that i might be doing wrong would be appreciated
First, you need to work on your smoothness. You are very abrupt and sporadic on the throttle and brake. Braking should be hard (but not abruptly hard, smoothly to keep the car balanced) on the straight approaching the corner, then tapered as you start turning into the corner, while throttle should be light at first then smoothly increased. You also seem to slam on the brakes mid-corner, which you should never have to do. All your braking should be done before the apex, and you should never have to go back to the brakes once you get on the gas (except in a few cases, mainly long closing radius corners with multiple apexes). You are also getting on the throttle too hard at the apex. Your lines could be better. For most corners, you are turning in too soon and having an early apex. You are then getting on the throttle too early. It looks like you feel you are running out of road on several corners and lifting to stay on the course. Turing in later, and therefore having a later apex, will correct this. You also aren't using all of the road, which will allow you to carry more speed on entry and exit.
Turn 1, you turn in too early. Stay further to the right and turn in a fraction later and you will have a better line through the corner. Also, you scrubbed too much speed at the apex. You should be accelerating at the point you make that 3rd downshift. That extra deceleration and downshift throw off the balance of the car and bring you in tighter than you should be, screwing up your exit. Make sure when you accelerate to do it smoothly!
(turn 2 I will say is the flat out left hander)
Turn 3 (quick right hander), you turn in way too soon. I reckon that corner can be taken flat out if you turn later. Stay further to the left exiting turn 2 and you will have a better approach to turn 3.
Turn 4 (left hander with the concrete), if you take a better line through turn 3, you will be able to exit 3 further to the right. This will give you a better line entering turn 4. If you turn in later, using the concrete you could probably take 4 flat.
Turn 5 (first tunnel) , before the first tunnel, is probably the only corner I think you did a decent job on, but there are still some problems. You turned in too early, turn in later and you'll be able to carry more speed. You hit the apex right and got on the power right, but you didn't use all the track on exit. You should be all over the curbs on the left in the tunnel.
Turn 6 (long right hander), is a good corner to trail brake in. Brake later, but softly and controlled. Too much braking and the car won't turn, not enough and you won't make the corner. You are playing with the throttle too much; accelerating, lifting, accelerating some more. It should be light and smooth braking until the apex, where you begin accelerating. You hit the apex about right, but you get on the throttle too hard, upsetting the balance. This is why you had to lift in the tunnel (twice!). Be gentler on the throttle, and you would have been able to exit the corner perfectly.
(I'll call turn 7 the flatout left hander)
Turn 8 (blind downhill right hander), you lift for this corner, but I don't believe you need to. Pause the video at 1:56. You should aim the car where the gaurdrail starts to disappear down the road on the right.
Turn 9 (first of the double apex left hander), you can probably carry more speed. Also, I would enter the corner more to the left. It's downhill and a little off camber on entry, so the wider you enter, the more the turn is going to want to push you to the outside.
Turn 10 (second part of the double apex left hander), you turned in too early. That's why you had to lift on exiting. Turning in later would let you carry more speed through the middle and give you a better exit. You also have plenty of road to use on exit.
(turn 11 I'll call the right hander through the tunnels)
Turn 12 (fast left hander), you turn in too early. This causes you to have a very early apex and so you drift wide on exit and have to lift. Turn in later and you'll get a better run to the final corner(s).
(turn 13 is the left hand kink)
Turn 14 (final corner), you just missed the apex. If you hit it, you would have been able to get on the gas sooner.
As you can see, your biggest problem is turning in too soon. If you wait a little longer, you'll find you are able to carry more speed and get better exits.
I can also tell you that you aren't carrying the maximum possible speed through the corners; your entry, mid-corner, and exit speeds are all too low. This should get better once you get smoother and fix your lines, but know that you can go faster. The tires will sound different when you're at the limit ;-)
I'm assuming you are using a controller, and if you are, don't think that it is preventing you from driving smooth. I know a couple of guys who are much faster than the vast majority of wheel users, and they use a controller .
One thing you can do to figure out better lines is to prioritize corners. Corners leading onto long straights are the most important. Corners leading into other corners aren't so much. Realize corners like the first and last are important since they lead to straights, and you should focus on getting on the gas as early as possible. For turn 1, that means having a late apex, for the final turn, it means getting the car rotated as soon as possible. You should make sacrifices in the less important turns to maximize your speed through the more important ones. For example, Turn 3 is less important than turn 4, which is less important than turn 5 (you must sacrifice the exit of turn 3 to set your self up for a better entrance for turn 4, and you must sacrifice the exit of turn 4 so you can have the ideal entry into turn 5, which has a short straight.)
I bet you can pick up a good 3 seconds if you get all these down. Good luck!
Gar529
Gar529 Lombax Warrior
Lombax Warrior 705 posts since
Mar 13, 2005
30. Apr 16, 2012 9:08 PM (in response to audioinstaller)
Re: Post Your GT5 Race Video's
audioinstaller wrote:
this is a best lap replay of me driving my Lotus Elise RM '96 at Deep Forest Raceway
enjoy
any tips that i might be doing wrong would be appreciated
First, you need to work on your smoothness. You are very abrupt and sporadic on the throttle and brake. Braking should be hard (but not abruptly hard, smoothly to keep the car balanced) on the straight approaching the corner, then tapered as you start turning into the corner, while throttle should be light at first then smoothly increased. You also seem to slam on the brakes mid-corner, which you should never have to do. All your braking should be done before the apex, and you should never have to go back to the brakes once you get on the gas (except in a few cases, mainly long closing radius corners with multiple apexes). You are also getting on the throttle too hard at the apex. Your lines could be better. For most corners, you are turning in too soon and having an early apex. You are then getting on the throttle too early. It looks like you feel you are running out of road on several corners and lifting to stay on the course. Turing in later, and therefore having a later apex, will correct this. You also aren't using all of the road, which will allow you to carry more speed on entry and exit.
Turn 1, you turn in too early. Stay further to the right and turn in a fraction later and you will have a better line through the corner. Also, you scrubbed too much speed at the apex. You should be accelerating at the point you make that 3rd downshift. That extra deceleration and downshift throw off the balance of the car and bring you in tighter than you should be, screwing up your exit. Make sure when you accelerate to do it smoothly!
(turn 2 I will say is the flat out left hander)
Turn 3 (quick right hander), you turn in way too soon. I reckon that corner can be taken flat out if you turn later. Stay further to the left exiting turn 2 and you will have a better approach to turn 3.
Turn 4 (left hander with the concrete), if you take a better line through turn 3, you will be able to exit 3 further to the right. This will give you a better line entering turn 4. If you turn in later, using the concrete you could probably take 4 flat.
Turn 5 (first tunnel) , before the first tunnel, is probably the only corner I think you did a decent job on, but there are still some problems. You turned in too early, turn in later and you'll be able to carry more speed. You hit the apex right and got on the power right, but you didn't use all the track on exit. You should be all over the curbs on the left in the tunnel.
Turn 6 (long right hander), is a good corner to trail brake in. Brake later, but softly and controlled. Too much braking and the car won't turn, not enough and you won't make the corner. You are playing with the throttle too much; accelerating, lifting, accelerating some more. It should be light and smooth braking until the apex, where you begin accelerating. You hit the apex about right, but you get on the throttle too hard, upsetting the balance. This is why you had to lift in the tunnel (twice!). Be gentler on the throttle, and you would have been able to exit the corner perfectly.
(I'll call turn 7 the flatout left hander)
Turn 8 (blind downhill right hander), you lift for this corner, but I don't believe you need to. Pause the video at 1:56. You should aim the car where the gaurdrail starts to disappear down the road on the right.
Turn 9 (first of the double apex left hander), you can probably carry more speed. Also, I would enter the corner more to the left. It's downhill and a little off camber on entry, so the wider you enter, the more the turn is going to want to push you to the outside.
Turn 10 (second part of the double apex left hander), you turned in too early. That's why you had to lift on exiting. Turning in later would let you carry more speed through the middle and give you a better exit. You also have plenty of road to use on exit.
(turn 11 I'll call the right hander through the tunnels)
Turn 12 (fast left hander), you turn in too early. This causes you to have a very early apex and so you drift wide on exit and have to lift. Turn in later and you'll get a better run to the final corner(s).
(turn 13 is the left hand kink)
Turn 14 (final corner), you just missed the apex. If you hit it, you would have been able to get on the gas sooner.
As you can see, your biggest problem is turning in too soon. If you wait a little longer, you'll find you are able to carry more speed and get better exits.
I can also tell you that you aren't carrying the maximum possible speed through the corners; your entry, mid-corner, and exit speeds are all too low. This should get better once you get smoother and fix your lines, but know that you can go faster. The tires will sound different when you're at the limit ;-)
I'm assuming you are using a controller, and if you are, don't think that it is preventing you from driving smooth. I know a couple of guys who are much faster than the vast majority of wheel users, and they use a controller .
One thing you can do to figure out better lines is to prioritize corners. Corners leading onto long straights are the most important. Corners leading into other corners aren't so much. Realize corners like the first and last are important since they lead to straights, and you should focus on getting on the gas as early as possible. For turn 1, that means having a late apex, for the final turn, it means getting the car rotated as soon as possible. You should make sacrifices in the less important turns to maximize your speed through the more important ones. For example, Turn 3 is less important than turn 4, which is less important than turn 5 (you must sacrifice the exit of turn 3 to set your self up for a better entrance for turn 4, and you must sacrifice the exit of turn 4 so you can have the ideal entry into turn 5, which has a short straight.)
I bet you can pick up a good 3 seconds if you get all these down. Good luck!
Last edited:
- 104
- Georgiesbest
Brilliant post, thanks for sharing dogg.
A thing I have been doing a lot recently is to download the fastest replay for the time trials and then load that ghost to see where I am losing time on other people.
As the guy said above, getting on the throttle progressively and smoothly on exit is so important because it keeps the balance of the car in check.
A thing I have been doing a lot recently is to download the fastest replay for the time trials and then load that ghost to see where I am losing time on other people.
As the guy said above, getting on the throttle progressively and smoothly on exit is so important because it keeps the balance of the car in check.
- 354
- Netherlands
- YuRiPa84
So, how are you controlling the LMP and Group C cars? Especially when accelerating? Since I get so much wheelspin, but I guess I should practise more with manual shifting (mostly use automatic, don't like the manual shifting too much on the DS3), I can normally only accelerate once I'm already out of the corner, hehe.
A further question to everyone out here. Since this is a thread about cornering anyway, I was curious about the lines that you guys take through the final 3 corners of Fuji GT and Fuji Speedway F tracks (13th, Netz and Panasonic). Since I think I can gain so much time there, but I dunno, maybe my racing line through there is already pretty good. For the first corner of the three (the roughly 90 degree right hander) I go to the left of the track before the corner, brake, then hit an early apex so I can go full throttle soon again. The second one, the left hander, go to the outside of the corner, then slam the brakes, make a sharp turn, then go full throttle as early as possible, so also an early apex. For the last one, I go to the outside too, then hit the brakes, turn sharply and go full throttle as early as possible. I try to be full throttle before I hit the kerbs on the inside of the corners, though it's hard due to the tricky road surface there, generating understeer. I was wondering what the best line would be for these corners and what you guys think.
Maybe my line through these corners is completely wrong, though I hope not, hehe.
I made a rough drawing of my racing line that can be accessed here:
http://www.shareimages.com/image.php?60794-q5qWm5Sdk5.pmZyVnQ-fuji_race_line.jpg
I have no idea why I can't get the link to appear as an image in this post, so that's why I do it this way.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Isn't it better for any car to have a brake bias that's more to the front than to the back anyway? That's how I set up my cars (also using a DS3 and the square button for braking), still using similar techniques as I did way back with the GP F1 race games from Microprose. There they said to use about 75% front, and 25% back brake bias (which I try to use with GT5 too), but with GT5 on these forums, I don't see many car set-ups having a 75-25% brake bias. But guess it's different per car too.
Many people here say once you've cleared the apex, just go full throttle.. But using a DS3 with the X-button for acceleration, it's really hard to then control the LMP and Group C cars.. If someone uses a DS3 the same way and has some tips on improving stability for exiting corners in high powered cars, that would be great.
In real life yes, a front brake bias is better all the time, but this is GT5 and we have the luxury of ABS on every car and the ability to use brake balance settings that would probably not work in the real world. Using a 75/25 setting on GT5 will likely overheat the front tires under extreme cornering conditions and will also wear them out much faster where tire wear is a concern. So most guys throw as much rear brake on as they can and still have the car able to be balanced under trail braking.
I use a DFGT for real racing but do fool with the DS3 once in a while for seasonals and such. I set up the R2 for accel which really helps on the higher powered cars and the square button for the brake when using automatic transmission. If I want to manual shift however, I end up using the x/Square combination so I can use L1/R1 for shifting.
- 104
- Georgiesbest
Would like to bring up my previous question again.
How do you guys know what is the best gear for the corner? Is there a way to work it out? because even with trial and error I'm not sure if I would naturally discover the best gear for each corner.
Also, do you guys use visual references to know when to brake and turn in? Because currently I pretty much just use the flashing gear indicator to tell me when to brake, and guestimate from there, which obviously isn't the quickest option.
How do you guys know what is the best gear for the corner? Is there a way to work it out? because even with trial and error I'm not sure if I would naturally discover the best gear for each corner.
Also, do you guys use visual references to know when to brake and turn in? Because currently I pretty much just use the flashing gear indicator to tell me when to brake, and guestimate from there, which obviously isn't the quickest option.
- 5,785
- Norman, OK
- McClarenDesign
georgiebest
I feel my way through it. Like Kenny Brown once said : "if it feels good, it probably is. If it feels bad, it probably is." The more you practice, the more you'll "feel".
