Advice to PD from a GT Fanboy

[McLaren]

Why not do both? The Vision GT cars help market the game well too.

Except it seems clear they can't, or it would be done. Some cars aren't even brought up to up-to-date all the way, so now we have 3 tiers of cars; standard, semi-standard/premium, & premium.

A couple of those cars are a complete mockery to the team behind the physics.

I'm not focusing on modelling staff but seems that is what you want to focus on at the moment. Why not mention what you think the people that work on core parts of the game are doing as you seem to think that these external activities are so much that they are focused on ignoring flaws of the game.

That's exactly what you're focusing on because you continue to ignore that PD is more focused on creating external partnerships than improving the core gameplay.

What I think they're doing is obviously not living up to what the company continues to promise, something likely out of their control because they don't have the man power. Until PD reels themselves back in, people will not care if there's new cars & tracks if PD can not help the staff behind everything else deliver.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Except it seems clear they can't, or it would be done. Some cars aren't even brought up to up-to-date all the way, so now we have 3 tiers of cars; standard, semi-standard/premium, & premium.

A couple of those cars are a complete mockery to the team behind the physics.

Clear to me they can, how they are not magically going to have a massive number of cars become Premium so quickly.

That's exactly what you're focusing on because you continue to ignore that PD is more focused on creating external partnerships than improving the core gameplay.

What I think they're doing is obviously not living up to what the company continues to promise, something likely out of their control because they don't have the man power. Until PD reels themselves back in, people will not care if there's new cars & tracks if PD can not help the staff behind everything else deliver.

That is what you seem to be focusing on, not me. Still not seeing link between focusing on external partners than improving the core gameplay, you make it sound like it is one or the other. You do realise they have many people working on the game? I rather they have technical partners like Yokohama Rubber and KW Automotive than not.

 

[McLaren]

Clear to me they can, how they are not magically going to have a massive number of cars become Premium so quickly.

They can't. They don't have the man power to do so in the time frame between games. GT5 & GT6 have already shown this to be the case.

That is what you seem to be focusing on, not me. Still not seeing link between focusing on external partners than improving the core gameplay, you make it sound like it is one or the other. You do realise they have many people working on the game? I rather they have technical partners like Yokohama Rubber and KW Automotive than not.

Nope. All these external partnerships mean nothing if the staff can not deliver on the company promises.

What good is Yokohama's input if the tire physics still have the same flaws?

 

[Saidur_Ali]

They can't. They don't have the man power to do so in the time frame between games. GT5 & GT6 have already shown this to be the case.

Nope. All these external partnerships mean nothing if the staff can not deliver on the company promises.

What good is Yokohama's input if the tire physics still have the same flaws?

I know they can't make all cars Premium in such a short period of time, it would take a massive increase in modellers for that to happen.

They may as well give up then.

 

[McLaren]

I know they can't make all cars Premium in such a short period of time, it would take a massive increase in modellers for that to happen.

They may as well give up then.

Continuing to ignore the point & act like I said something completely different, even though I said PD need to reel themselves back in. What they need is realistic goals or more staff.

 

[killerjimbag]

Clear to me they can, how they are not magically going to have a massive number of cars become Premium so quickly.

That is what you seem to be focusing on, not me. Still not seeing link between focusing on external partners than improving the core gameplay, you make it sound like it is one or the other. You do realise they have many people working on the game? I rather they have technical partners like Yokohama Rubber and KW Automotive than not.

You just didn't say Yokohama and KW?
You have got to be kidding me.
If I was those 2 companies I'd ask for my money back and ask them to take my likeness out of the game.
I'm sure Yokohama is tickled pink about PD's tire moddling. Yeah and the 4 post suspension,oh yeah its not here still.Nothing remotely even comes close to data provided by KW.
Wow I actually cannot fathom how someone thinks anything those two companies provided is actually in GT6.
Please elaborate on KW's suspension model? Let's make it easy,camber perhaps,or would you prefer backwards suspension geometry?

 

[killerjimbag]

I know they can't make all cars Premium in such a short period of time, it would take a massive increase in modellers for that to happen.

They may as well give up then.

What?You can make 1 old Miata a premium and copy and paste. Pretty Simple. Sorry 2 cars NA and Japanese. Bingo.

 

[synon]

So what are the requirements for an FIA certification? What did PD do above and beyond other games with laser scanned tracks?
He didn't say it was easy, he said it was meaningless. Which it is.

If you don't know the requirements for FIA certification how can you then say it is meaningless?

 

[killerjimbag]

If you don't know the requirements for FIA certification how can you then say it is meaningless?

It's a partnership with FIA. We say your track is certified,PDI gets a big,oh its FIA certfied.hurray,FIA gets GT's fanbase watching their races. My assumption is they will now be the "official sanctioning body of GT and run a santion FIA online event"
Look at FIA's website,June of 2014,we are supposed to have an event in 2015. Better hurry up,its almost another lost promise.

 

[viotunes]

I've recently gotten an XBOX One and Forza aswell. I can agree that Forza is a lot better in a lot of things, but somehow I still find myself going back on GT6 and tuning cars there instead, I guess I just like the way it feels in Gran Turismo even though Forza offers a more detailed and interesting model. Both series can be equally fun to me I suppose, but a Gran Turismo with all the good things about Forza in it would certainly be my favorite game. I haven't tried Project Cars yet, but this review definitely made me interested, so I'll consider playing it.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Continuing to ignore the point & act like I said something completely different, even though I said PD need to reel themselves back in. What they need is realistic goals or more staff.

How do they reel themselves back in? Seems you want them to not have the guidance provided by partners as with or without their help the staff aren't good enough to improve things. Also have less brand awareness and spend a lot more on development, seems like a recipe for disaster. I'm personally glad PD manage things really well for GT franchise.

You just didn't say Yokohama and KW?
You have got to be kidding me.
If I was those 2 companies I'd ask for my money back and ask them to take my likeness out of the game.
I'm sure Yokohama is tickled pink about PD's tire moddling. Yeah and the 4 post suspension,oh yeah its not here still.Nothing remotely even comes close to data provided by KW.
Wow I actually cannot fathom how someone thinks anything those two companies provided is actually in GT6.
Please elaborate on KW's suspension model? Let's make it easy,camber perhaps,or would you prefer backwards suspension geometry?

You rather they had no technical partners to help them then?

 

[killerjimbag]

How do they reel themselves back in? Seems you want them to not have the guidance provided by partners as with or without their help the staff aren't good enough to improve things. Also have less brand awareness and spend a lot more on development, seems like a recipe for disaster. I'm personally glad PD manage things really well for GT franchise.

You rather they had no technical partners to help them then?

Help them? They are supposed to be the best at what they do! Biggest selling franchise,etc,etc,etc. Please stop the rhetoric! GT7/sport,better get their 🤬 together and actually use what is given to them. To say they used those 2 companies data for GT6 is absurd at best!

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Help them? They are supposed to be the best at what they do! Biggest selling franchise,etc,etc,etc. Please stop the rhetoric! GT7/sport,better get their 🤬 together and actually use what is given to them. To say they used those 2 companies data for GT6 is absurd at best!

You can still use others help to become the best. Seems much better in GT6 compared to say GT5 regarding the suspension and tyre models. Why is it absurd at best? Seems most logical to me.

 

[Samus]

If you don't know the requirements for FIA certification how can you then say it is meaningless?

Because I know it doesn't change anything. An accurate track is an accurate track, I don't need an "FIA certification" to confirm that. Tell me it's accurately laser scanned, that's enough for me. PD haven't done anything differently, because there isn't anything differently to do. You're making a virtual representation of a track, if you laser scan it properly all that is left is how well you texture and detail it, which has nothing to do with accuracy and any FIA certification. I'm pretty sure they aren't certifying it because the trees look real or the gravel has a nice texture.

Those tracks already certified in GT6 were great to drive and felt very accurate from day one, nothing changed when months later we were told the FIA had certified them.

 

[McLaren]

How do they reel themselves back in? Seems you want them to not have the guidance provided by partners as with or without their help the staff aren't good enough to improve things. Also have less brand awareness and spend a lot more on development, seems like a recipe for disaster. I'm personally glad PD manage things really well for GT franchise.

You rather they had no technical partners to help them then?

I just said it if you can read properly. Set better goals or hire more staff.

They've been around for over a decade. GT does not need brand awareness, that's such a silly thing to even come up with.

Technical partners mean nothing again, if they do not implement their data. Try reading posts instead of blindly following PD.

 

[Imari]

If you don't know the requirements for FIA certification how can you then say it is meaningless?

Because it's a computer game.

In real life, FIA certification of a track is based on the track's safety and facilities. These have important effects on the type and scale of events that can be held at a track.

In a computer game, FIA certification of a track is (apparently) based on how similar to the real track the electronic representation is. Given the general accuracy of even hand-modelled tracks these days, and the tendency for most modern sims towards laser scanning at sub centimetre accuracies, pretty much any new track is going to be similar enough physically.

After that, it's just making the track look like the real thing, and that's just window dressing as far as racing is concerned. That's not the FIA's purview, to make sure that an electronic version of a track looks right. "Looks right" means whatever they want it to mean, which makes it a rubber stamp. The FIA is happy to put their name on it because it gets them publicity and/or money, at no real cost to themselves.

And rightly so, it's a great deal for the FIA and it's a great deal for Polyphony. But it's a marketing deal. That's all. Let's not get all excited and think that this changes the tracks at all, because it doesn't. It's just two big companies that have seen a mutual benefit in branding each other's products.

 

[killerjimbag]

You can still use others help to become the best. Seems much better in GT6 compared to say GT5 regarding the suspension and tyre models. Why is it absurd at best? Seems most logical to me.

Wow,I can see this is going nowhere fast. Have at it,post away.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I just said it if you can read properly. Set better goals or hire more staff.

They've been around for over a decade. GT does not need brand awareness, that's such a silly thing to even come up with.

Technical partners mean nothing again, if they do not implement their data. Try reading posts instead of blindly following PD.

I did read that. You said they need realistic goals, I wonder what you consider realistic for them as you make it sound like they should be aiming for lower than what they are now while current level is not up to standard or hire a huge number more. Either way, doesn't seem healthy for GT to me.

Why is it silly? They should not become complacent and rest on their laurels or they may end up like some other developers.

Do you have proof they don't implement their data? Try follow what PD are doing first.

 

[synon]

Because I know it doesn't change anything. An accurate track is an accurate track, I don't need an "FIA certification" to confirm that. Tell me it's accurately laser scanned, that's enough for me. PD haven't done anything differently, because there isn't anything differently to do. You're making a virtual representation of a track, if you laser scan it properly all that is left is how well you texture and detail it, which has nothing to do with accuracy and any FIA certification. I'm pretty sure they aren't certifying it because the trees look real or the gravel has a nice texture.

Those tracks already certified in GT6 were great to drive and felt very accurate from day one, nothing changed when months later we were told the FIA had certified them.

That's presupposing there is a laser-scanned "standard" for circuits. Assetto Corsa and Forza both have a laser-scanned Nordschleife track, but eg there are differences in their kerbing. I imagine the height, shape etc of kerbs would be something that the FIA would look at.

 

[McLaren]

I did read that. You said they need realistic goals, I wonder what you consider realistic for them as you make it sound like they should be aiming for lower than what they are now while current level is not up to standard or hire a huge number more. Either way, doesn't seem healthy for GT to me.

The current level isn't up to standard unless you honestly believe half finished features, 3 tier car models, & so forth are worth bragging about. The developers are not consistent in quality throughout the game.

Why is it silly? They should not become complacent and rest on their laurels or they may end up like some other developers.

The franchise is the premiere racing game of Sony. They do not need brand awareness; that's why manufacturers are partnered with them in the first place.

Do you have proof they don't implement their data? Try follow what PD are doing first.

@killerjimbag just pointed out there is nothing to suggest they have.I believe @Scaff has gone into well documented detail about where PD is lacking in its entire physics department.

There is nothing to follow there.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Until we hear it directly from PD and/or the FIA, we have no way of knowing whether their association is just a rubber stamp marketing gimmick to further their own self interests, or whether there are some hard and detailed criteria as to what is necessary to become an FIA certified track. And until we see the criteria for ourselves and get feedback from independent and knowledgable sources as well as through our own gameplay, there is no way to determine the validity of those standards. My hope is that it's taken seriously and that the FIA establishes some real and meaningful standards for certification, particularly involving track and curbing accuracy, elevations, surface grip levels etc. No offense to GT fans, but if the FIA is serious about this, by definition, as a governing body for world motorsport, they should offer up this certification to every game developer in the interests of developing the sport, rather than coming to some exclusive arrangement with one game developer. IMO, if it turns out to be an exclusive arrangement, it's ludicrous to say it's for the betterment of the sport, when it only lines the pocketbooks of one game developer and the FIA.

Edit: I would also assume that if we hear nothing about some specific standards it means there are none. To develop a list of hard criteria and not use it to market the game would be unthinkable.

 

[Samus]

That's presupposing there is a laser-scanned "standard" for circuits. Assetto Corsa and Forza both have a laser-scanned Nordschleife track, but eg there are differences in their kerbing. I imagine the height, shape etc of kerbs would be something that the FIA would look at.

I haven't played those two games to comment on that specific example but I honestly find it hard to believe the FIA would go to that much trouble. I mean in that specific example, would they head around the Ring and measure every single kerb height and width to see if they're right? I find that hard to believe. As Johnny says we really need to know exactly what their process was to really judge how much it means. In the quote posted on the last page it just said they inspected the 3D models and were impressed with the accuracy. Did they call Silverstone up and ask them to go measure the height of kerbs at turn 3? Again, I doubt it.

I'm certainly not saying having the FIA seal of approval isn't a good thing, of course it is. I just don't personally see it as anything too far beyond marketing and the resulting tie up in content for GTS.

Until they tell us exactly what "FIA certification" actually means, that's all it'll be to me.

 

[NixxxoN]

I recently purchased an Xbox One, a new G920 wheel, Forza 6 and Project Cars. I have been playing the two new racing games for a couple of months now and both are awesome in their own way. I just hope that PD is also testing out its competition. Forza 6 and Project Cars are so good, that I see no reason to turn on GT6 in the future. I have high hopes for GT7, but if the GT Planet community reviews are “same old Polyphony Digital” then there will not be a PS4 in my future. Below are my quick reviews of each game. Feel free to comment, agree, disagree, and/or call me names… whatever. Simply sharing my opinion as someone who has been with Gran Turismo through every single title. I do have hope that Polyphony Digital will finally come through with a great game, and with promises met, but know that their sub-par performance on GT5 and GT6 leave me skeptical enough to know that I will not be doing another pre-order of their games. GT Planet reviews of GT7 are likely the only things that will bring me back to the Gran Turismo series.

When GT7 (or GT Sports) comes out, dont read reviews. Try to test the game for yourself. People have different tastes, reviewers aswell, they're all opinions. You can love the upcoming GT and other people and reviewers dont like it. Reviewers in a specialized magazine publish their opinion aswell, dont take it as an absolute truth, it is not.

 

[Johnnypenso]

When GT7 (or GT Sports) comes out, dont read reviews. Try to test the game for yourself. People have different tastes, reviewers aswell, they're all opinions. You can love the upcoming GT and other people and reviewers dont like it. Reviewers in a specialized magazine publish their opinion aswell, dont take it as an absolute truth, it is not.

You're better off just coming to a forum like GTP and listening to the feedback of members you know and trust if someone doesn't want to fork out $70 or whatever it is for the game.

 

[Pete05]

When GT7 (or GT Sports) comes out, dont read reviews. Try to test the game for yourself. People have different tastes, reviewers aswell, they're all opinions. You can love the upcoming GT and other people and reviewers dont like it. Reviewers in a specialized magazine publish their opinion aswell, dont take it as an absolute truth, it is not.

If I read 6 reviews in magazines and 5 of them are unfavorable,
If I come to GT Planet and find the same trend, there isn't a snowball's chance in hell that I'll be spending over AUS$100 for a dud game.

 

[NixxxoN]

If I read 6 reviews in magazines and 5 of them are unfavorable,
If I come to GT Planet and find the same trend, there isn't a snowball's chance in hell that I'll be spending over AUS$100 for a dud game.

I insist... Do not care about reviews, try it for yourself if you can. Try it for yourself.
Reviews are opinions, there are millions of opinions in this world, reviewers opinions dont matter more than yours or mine. You can hear 10 or 15 unfavorable or avereage reviews about that game and you can find it excellent.
You can also see reviewers that dont really have much clue about what they are reviewing... IGN's review for GT6 for example, was shockingly bad for a guy who is supposed to be an "expert" of videogames... it seems he never played a GT game in his life, or he never played any racing games - for example he didnt talk about physics at all. And thats an extremely important part of this kind of game.
And on the other way round... you can find lots of great reviews about a game, and then you play it and realise that it's a piece of crap... because those reviews might be biased and "sponsored". I give you an example... The Journey, for PS3. What a terrible, terrible game. Very short, very boring, very empty... the only thing that is good is the music but thats it.

You're better off just coming to a forum like GTP and listening to the feedback of members you know and trust if someone doesn't want to fork out $70 or whatever it is for the game.

No, you better try it for yourself, thats it.

 

[ImaRobot]

I insist... Do not care about reviews, try it for yourself if you can. Try it for yourself.
Reviews are opinions, there are millions of opinions in this world, reviewers opinions dont matter more than yours or mine. You can hear 10 or 15 unfavorable or avereage reviews about that game and you can find it excellent.

Or the other way round... you can find lots and lots of great reviews about a game that in reality its a piece of crap... because those reviews are "sponsored". I give you an example... The Journey, for PS3. What a terrible, terrible game. Very short, very boring, very empty... the only thing that is good is the music but thats it.

If someone else's opinion falls in line with your line of thinking, and there are plenty going on about the same things, then there's a good chance you're going to actually find some truth to the reviews.

So it's good to take reviews into consideration. However, you're reasoning sounds more like that you disregard truthful reviews, if they don't like a game you like.

 

[TS050]

I insist... Do not care about reviews, try it for yourself if you can. Try it for yourself.

I don't know, if you see 10 or 15 unfavorable reviews about a game, I don't see why one would spend their hard earned money it; considering there's a trend.

The only time I've ever done something like this was Driveclub; it received fairly mixed reviews, but is one of the most fun racing games I've ever played.

 

[NixxxoN]

If someone else's opinion falls in line with your line of thinking, and there are plenty going on about the same things, then there's a good chance you're going to actually find some truth to the reviews.

So it's good to take reviews into consideration. However, you're reasoning sounds more like that you disregard truthful reviews, if they don't like a game you like.

Nope, because those reviews are not yours. Do not care about what others say, just care about your own opinion about the game and if YOU like it.

I don't know, if you see 10 or 15 unfavorable reviews about a game, I don't see why one would spend their hard earned money it; considering there's a trend.

The only time I've ever done something like this was Driveclub; it received fairly mixed reviews, but is one of the most fun racing games I've ever played.

See? I think Driveclub is one of the worst racing games I've ever played... thats my point, until you try it for youself you wont know if you like it or not.

 

[ImaRobot]

Nope, because those reviews are not yours. Do not care about what others say, just care about your own opinion about the game and if YOU like it.

See? I think Driveclub is one of the worst racing games I've ever played... thats my point, until you try it for youself you wont know if you like it or not.

And if their opinion and what they want going into the game lines up with yours, then there's more then enough reason there to be able to make a judgement on whether you would want to take the plunge or not. No matter if it's someone else's opinion, doesn't mean you can't take it into consideration. If problems ibhad in the past still aren't fixed, and a reviewer makes note of that, than why would I have a reason to not believe it, especially if more than one person is stating it?