After a 10 day hiatus I gave GT7 a second chance

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m76

m76

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And almost ended up ripping out the disc and breaking it in half. It took an inhumane amount of self control to not just do that.
But I did delete the game from the console. I'm done with GT7 with finality, unless they fix the physics.

After returning from the 10 day break the physics seems even worse than before. 250HP car, with aero, and racing tyres: Still drives like a sled. LMP cars also oversteer uncontrollably, even at low speeds.

This game is broken, and I'm not going to put up with it any longer. I instantly loaded up GT Sport and started playing that, and I didn't blow a gasket, I didn't have to try every race a hundred million times before accidentally fluking it. And even when the AI punted me, I still had a chance of preventing a spin.
And I could actually learn (to me) new tracks in one lap and go around it without going off the second time around. Unlike in GT7 where it is a game of walking on eggshells, and nursing cars around the course, not even thinking about pressing the accelerator unless you are within 0.00001° of a straight line. Regardless of the speed and car being driven.

The physics of this game is a miserable burlap sack of turds.

And don't come at me with "ah, you are just not used to sims" I live sims since the early nineties starting with F1GP. Raced against pro drivers, in Live for Speed almost 20 years ago. Been there when Assetto Corsa was just Netkar. Played everything from GP Legends, to GT Legends, through Project Cars1-2, Rfactor1-2, Assetto Corsa. And I've never experienced anything similar to GT7 in any of them.

If you are having fun with GT7 as is, I'm glad, just please don't insult my intelligence by suggesting that GT7 is anywhere near realistic.
Is there even another supposed sim, where using a wheel instead of a controller is a definite disadvantage?

Bye, bye GT7, it was definitely not a pleasure knowing you.
 
I think you need to work on your attitude and try to better control your emotions. Coming off like this with a raging complaint and some elitistic bs where you write everyone off before even having a conversation… I mean, it doesn’t look good now does it.

Calm down, carefully explain your struggles and we might try to convince you of how to deal with it. We are all having difficulties with various aspects of the game but breaking the disc in half and then throwing a temper tantrum on a forum is not the way to go about it.
 
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The physics aren't as described for detuned cars. For the Sardegna WTC 800 race, for example, if you do it with a boosted Gr.3 car, it is indeed horrible, but if you do it with a detuned Gr.2 or Gr.1 car, they're super grippy, stable and easy to drive.
 
lancashire lad
They have been working on these areas for 25 years so I wouldn't get your hopes up.
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I can exactly tell why the Gran Turismo series always had been Simcade rather than being proper Sim Racing because the developer can optimize both the racing wheels and controller pads.
 
Although I find some cars to be a little strange, I can't say that the game overall has these issues. Past GT's have had more assistance behind the scenes (yes, even with the assists turned off). Now, it's up to you to not whack the throttle wide open on a whim.

Maybe people with actual track experience can chime in, but I don't find the physics to be all that far from what is expected behaviour (and I'm not expecting 100% accuracy)
 
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GTxForza
I believe that Polyphony Digital is still working on a future patch to fix the physics & AI so it will take several months.
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Glad to hear it, maybe the game will actually be worth playing 4 years after release like GT Sport.

NJ72
This isn't an airport, no need to announce your departure
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Hate to disappoint you but I didn't say I was leaving here, I said I quit playing GT7.
breeminator
The physics aren't as described for detuned cars. For the Sardegna WTC 800 race, for example, if you do it with a boosted Gr.3 car, it is indeed horrible, but if you do it with a detuned Gr.2 or Gr.1 car, they're super grippy, stable and easy to drive.
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Yeah, you can trick the game by detuning some cars where they will become like railcars, but that's also not realism, nor fun. I could stay and complete the game by exploiting loopholes and errors, but where is the fun in that?
Oi Oi JC
Bye then
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Are you going somewhere?

You know what's telling? That nobody actually tried to deny the problems with the physics (and by extension the FF), so at least we are past the denial stage.
 
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It's undeniable that there are issues with the GT7 physics. Anyone claiming otherwise is delusional. Yes, some cars are much too sensitive. Yes, slides are way too hard to catch. Yes, there are some weird low speed grip issues. Yes, the FFB needs a lot of work.

But, I think as whole the GT7 physics are in a much better place than the real understeer simulator that was GT sport. And it is specifically because of the walking on eggshells feeling that you seem to hate so much. Yes, it's a bit too much in GT7, but in GT sport it is absolutely non existent. In most cars the only danger you're ever in is carrying too much speed into or out of a corner and understeering wide into the grass. There's virtually no throttle induced oversteer, no FF lift of oversteer, no weight transfer shenanigans, no upset suspension scares.


And not only does this make that game feel so much less lively, but it makes it so much more annoying to drive and be actually quick. The way you have to drive to be quick in GT sport was just so unintuitive, because there was nothing to punish you so you had to be ridiculously aggressive to be quick. Yes, it was more forgiving on your first few laps with a new car and track combo, but once you start trying to go fast, you had 30 different safe lines you could take through each corner. In GT7, out of those same 30 lines, 25 of them will have you spun around or in a wall, so it's much quicker to determine which of the remaining 5 is the quickest.


All that to say, there are big issues with GT7, and I really really hope they get fixed, but I will be sorely disappointed if PD attempts to half-ass a fix by reverting to GT sport style physics, because what we have right now is so much closer to being a fantastic physics engine.
 
m76
Hate to disappoint you but I didn't say I was leaving here, I said I quit playing GT7.
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Sorry, let me rephrase. GT7 isn't a flight simulator, no need to announce your departure.

The upshot is that GT7 isn't perfect, sadly no game is, but I - along with a lot of other people here - do find it enjoyable and most agree it is good progress on from GTS. If you're just here to whinge, that's cool, but your condescending tone and post won't gain many friends or allies around these parts
 
Said this several times now, the GT7 physics are not perfect by any stretch, but compared to Sport? Far superior in every way. #Goshin described it perfectly. You literally had to be a noob to make mistakes in GT Sport... You could pull the throttle 100% even when the car was in 30º angles compared to the straight in RWD cars.
 
@m76 what exactly is it that’s giving you Headache.
You say you‘ve played Sims for over 20years, yet you‘re not able to adapt to GT7s Physics???
Tells me a lot about your skill Level.
I‘m in the same Boat as you.
I play Racing Sims for over 20years and I can assure you GT7 is the most authentic Replication of Car Dynamics.
It might not be the most accurate Simulation in terms of Physics but it’s not about Physics.
It’s about the Replication of real World Car Behavior and GT7 is unrivaled in that regard.
Driving Dynamics and Intuitive and natural Understanding of Car Dynamics are on another Level.
Maybe you should just accept that you miss something 😉
 
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m76
250HP car, with aero, and racing tyres: Still drives like a sled.
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I did a custom race on Tokyo Expressway Central Clockwise, with me in a stock Lancia Stratos against a GR Yaris.

Heavy rain, wet surface at 100%, Professional difficulty, my Stratos had Sports Hards on, no assists either... Even made it a rolling start to spice things up a bit. After 2-3 laps I overtook the AWD Yaris and felt like I was able to keep the Stratos on the road, even with the torturous conditions I gave myself.
Granted, the AI is nowhere near the best but if I was able to pull that off, surely the physics aren't that bad.

I genuinely don't know how you're managing to struggle with a kitted out 250hp car on racing slicks.
With all due respect, I think people on this forum making similar complaints really need to thoroughly play a rally sim and learn some fine car control. :odd:
 
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PirovacBoy
It might not be the most accurate Simulation in terms of Physics but it’s not about Physics.
It’s about the Replication of real World Car Behavior and GT7 is unrivaled in that regard.
Driving Dynamics and Intuitive and natural Understanding of Car Dynamics are on another Level.
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You're contradicting yourself - it very much is about physics. Vehicle dynamics is a mechanical engineering discipline and engineering is basically applied physics.

And the only area wherein GT7 can rightfully be called unrivaled is in its frustrating game and UI design.
 
RedRockValley
I did a custom race on Tokyo Expressway Central Clockwise, with me in a stock Lancia Stratos against a GR Yaris.

Heavy rain, wet surface at 100%, Professional difficulty, my Stratos had Sports Hards on, no assists either... Even made it a rolling start to spice things up a bit. After 2-3 laps I overtook the AWD Yaris and felt like I was able to keep the Stratos on the road, even with the torturous conditions I gave myself.
Granted, the AI is nowhere near the best but if I was able to pull that off, surely the physics aren't that bad.

I genuinely don't know how you're managing to struggle with a kitted out 250hp car on racing slicks.
With all due respect, I think people on this forum making similar complaints really need to thoroughly play a rally sim and learn some fine car control. :odd:
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It’s almost as if there’s a lack of info on what track and conditions they described, even about the LMP car bit, not like there’s a record function to show a video of such and ask the community where things are wrong and or how to improve upon them
 
PirovacBoy
It’s about the Replication of real World Car Behavior and GT7 is unrivaled in that regard.
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Even if this was the case (which it absolutely isn't, @Scaff in the physics thread had shown, time and time again that it isn't the case even when people use cherry-picked examples of videos of specific vehicles binning it in order to show what GT7 is doing with RWD physics and snap steering is somehow realistic) that still doesn't exactly take away from the fact that this statement is insanely subjective.

I would expect planted, driver's cars like the GT86 to not snap coming out of corners like a Shelby Cobra, so apparently that means that GT7 is the most realistic game around.
 
Since I don't feel like getting into a discussion with anyone about what is "broken" or not at the top, I won't say anything more about it if at all possible.

The question of whether or not doesn't matter if it's basically possible to play this game.
However, some such as of the theme creators, based on their statements, present the game as if it were unplayable.
I think that's pure STUPIDITY and people like that really piss me off. If you don't want to play it because it's so "broken", you should just leave it alone. But anyone who claims to be a professional on the one hand, but then can't move a car properly in the game, because I just think that's a braggart / liar.
So please m76... from the beginning you get upset about this "broken" game and almost daily you write nasty posts about how bad everything is for you... Then just stop playing the game... Play something else and spread the word your wisdom about the other game then in another forum.

Incidentally, I also have 2-3 cars that I wish didn't have this hard "SnapOversteer", but they do have it... and maybe it will stay like that forever... then I'll just live with it. If I really want to drive them fast anyway.. then I activate ASM and countersteering.. it'll work with these cars too... but it's kind of boring and reminds me of GTS.

GTS was absolutely ok for me when there was no GT7.. but now I don't want to play GTS anymore because it feels so much worse.

On the subject of FFB.. jo bisl is weaker than zb. GTS .. but I still think it's really good.. and on my steering wheel I feel more FINE details than eg. at GTS.
Maybe it's because of some steering wheels that the game doesn't support them that well.
 
m76
Glad to hear it, maybe the game will actually be worth playing 4 years after release like GT Sport.


Hate to disappoint you but I didn't say I was leaving here, I said I quit playing GT7.

Yeah, you can trick the game by detuning some cars where they will become like railcars, but that's also not realism, nor fun. I could stay and complete the game by exploiting loopholes and errors, but where is the fun in that?

Are you going somewhere?

You know what's telling? That nobody actually tried to deny the problems with the physics (and by extension the FF), so at least we are past the denial stage.
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I don't have the experience you have on racing games I played all GT games and I adored Driveclub and got to number 1 globaly on many sprints, I have had a dabble on F1 but not a fan really.
But I do agree with what you say on GT7 and the cars being on eggshells etc it does come across as boring rather than fun, I knew I was losing interest when my mind starts to wander to other things when I supposed to be racing.
As you say though no one denying the faults. Says it all really.
 
Skinny McLean
You're contradicting yourself - it very much is about physics. Vehicle dynamics is a mechanical engineering discipline and engineering is basically applied physics.

And the only area wherein GT7 can rightfully be called unrivaled is in its frustrating game and UI design.
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I‘m not contradicting myself by any means.
Again, from a technical point of View I do agree with you and others to a certain degree and you most definitely are right, but that’s not the Subject I tried to refer to.

Look, GT Games have never been about replicating Real World Driving Physics from a strictly Technical point of view.

At least not from my understanding.
And I played them all since 1998.
They always kept their way of replicating Driving Dynamics in an easy and user friendly way.
Does that mean they were wrong?!
Maybe yes, if you or other “Professionals“ claim and I say that with full respect.

But that’s not the point I tried to make.
The intuitive accessibility of getting an understanding of Car behavior is just incredibly intuitive without getting to deep into detail.
Especially the FFB is, at least for me, perfectly detailed to give me the authentic Sensation I’m looking for when driving a Car.
Understanding the Car Balance and Driving Dynamics as easy and intuitive as possible is what made and makes GT Stand out.

But again you and others have a different look at it and I’m not saying that you’re wrong, it’s just the approach you take that leads you to your Conclusion.
I‘m cool with that 😀



Silver Arrows
Even if this was the case (which it absolutely isn't, @Scaff in the physics thread had shown, time and time again that it isn't the case even when people use cherry-picked examples of videos of specific vehicles binning it in order to show what GT7 is doing with RWD physics and snap steering is somehow realistic) that still doesn't exactly take away from the fact that this statement is insanely subjective.

I would expect planted, driver's cars like the GT86 to not snap coming out of corners like a Shelby Cobra, so apparently that means that GT7 is the most realistic game around.
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Of course these are just and only my own personal Subjective Conclusions.
Looking at it from my Perspective my Statements are undeniable.
Looking from your Point of View, it’s a different Story.
You may prefer a more technical Simulation , a Simulation that you can back up with Numbers and Physically Correct Parameters, but that’s not what I’m talking about.
It’s the simplicity, yet, very subtle and almost unconsciously noticeable Authenticitiy which I’m referring to.

You know, you don’t need to make Driving a Car a Science or a Scientific Explanation.
If you feel a Car behaves like you arguably think it should behave than the Creators have done it right.
In my opinion.
I NEVER tried to rival or disprove Scaffs‘ Knowledge.
He‘s just looking and explaining things from a strictly Technical Point of View.
And he might be right.
No doubt about it.
But you can, if you like to also believe me when I say that when I drive the Cars around in GT7, they give an authentic and intuitive Feedback.
Again, from my subjective point of View.
I‘m no Idiot and I drive Cars and Motorcycles for almost 25 years now.

And I never tried to explain anything or felt the urge to compare or use real world Physics when I sat behind a Wheel.
I drive these Vehicles intuitively and that’s what I’m strictly and only referring to.

And with the correct FFB Settings on my Wheel, that’s exactly what I am experiencing.
To sum it up, i‘m not looking for a Physics Simulation, I’m looking for an enjoyable, authentic and subjectively easy to access Driving Simulator and with GT7 I can definitely say that i found what I was looking for.
PDs‘ Interpretation is unique and so accessible yet hard to master if you aim for the top 1%
 
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